Vestratto Tornado heating tips

[hotmeals]

@hotmeals @PrematureEvaporation Though I did pyrolyze and combust with the Tornado, the AVB on this photo experienced neither. There’s a flat light coming from the left that makes the darker right side looking black in some spots. So much for the reliability of photos.

Sorry, but I will have to reiterate that color is not always the only factor in determining whether pyrolysis has occurred. When it advances far enough, it starts to noticebly break the material down. This is clearly visible in your photo. Judging with color in mind though, even the herb on the left side of the photo is significantly pyrolyzed. Pyrolysis actually occurs in every bowl, it is unavoidable, but I think it is reasonable to not call it pyrolysis until it is noticeably significant to our senses. The herb in your photo is well beyond that point in my opinion. There is nothing wrong with using vaporizers that way, I just think it is unfair to judge the flavor from that style of usage as any device's definitive flavor profile.

 

[PrematureEvaporation]

I'm skeptical of that. If it comes out looking anything close to that pic it's definitely pyrolyzed, and the reason you prefer its flavor when used like this could be because it doesn't bring the herb up to pyrolyzing temps nearly as quickly as something like the Anvil or Tornado.

Your skepticism is understandable, but nope definitely not pyrolised! I’d be perfectly happy to admit if it was happening, but it simply doesn’t for me in the S3. My device seems to be very well calibrated all the way up to 220c.

Saying that though, I’ve since sold it after getting a Fusion 2.0. I get the same effects and roast level with a much smoother vapour. It’s even cooling off my tornado VAS a little!

Been eyeing up those firewoods though, as they seem to cool better than the short glass stems of the S3

So much for the reliability of photos.

This is exactly my point, and why it’s important to seek user experience alongside an AVB pic before making any assumptions. Plus I generally just prefer to ask someone about their experience rather than tell them about their experience.

 

[hotmeals]

My device seems to be very well calibrated all the way up to 220c.

Again, 220C is a temperature that can easily cause pyrolysis of dried plant material. Most electronic vapes allow you to use them at temperatures that are likely to cause pyrolysis.

and why it’s important to seek user experience alongside an AVB pic before making any assumptions.

In this case the reported user experience of "I divided this into 3 slow hits in order to not combust. First one had some muted flavor to it, the rest was almost completely muted." is basically the definition of pyrolysis, and to me matches my interpretation of the photo. I generally find photos to be highly reliable, but they are far from perfect. Would you disagree that it is cannabis in the photo, or that it is sitting on a scuffed wooden surface? As I explained in one of my other posts, the point at which we consider the herb pyrolyzed in our context is somewhat arbitrary and subjective, but I think most people who fully understand what pyrolysis is would consider the material in that photo to be pyrolyzed.

 

[PrematureEvaporation]

Again, 220C is a temperature that can easily cause pyrolysis of dried plant material. Most electronic vapes allow you to use them at temperatures that are likely to cause pyrolysis.

In this case the reported user experience of "I divided this into 3 slow hits in order to not combust. First one had some muted flavor to it, the rest was almost completely muted." is basically the definition of pyrolysis, and to me matches my interpretation of the photo. I generally find photos to be highly reliable, but they are far from perfect. Would you disagree that it is cannabis in the photo, or that it is sitting on a scuffed wooden surface? As I explained in one of my other posts, the point at which we consider the herb pyrolyzed in our context is somewhat arbitrary and subjective, but I think most people who fully understand what pyrolysis is would consider the material in that photo to be pyrolyzed.

 

[hotmeals]

Is this what you do every time someone tries to teach you something?

 

[TedJones]

I've stepped up the flame since first trying out with good results. Started small, 30 + seconds, pulling away at the 2nd click (after break in period). Went with the big buddy for the quick 10ish seconds, and pulling away before the first click. That works just as good imo. Now using a smaller torch, but with a big 3 inch bright blue somewhere in the 15-18 second range and pulling off before the click. Might stick with this method for a bit since I like the torch.

I'm normally don't do re-heats with my vapes. I like to get it "one and done" per se. But I've noticed I've been leaving some behind when I fill this large bowl up. Even with a second clean-up pull that produces whispy vapor, it really isn't extracting it all. Going to start this with the Nado to get a couple of quality pulls, instead of the one go

 

[TigoleBitties]

I'm normally don't do re-heats with my vapes. I like to get it "one and done" per se. But I've noticed I've been leaving some behind when I fill this large bowl up. Even with a second clean-up pull that produces whispy vapor, it really isn't extracting it all. Going to start this with the Nado to get a couple of quality pulls, instead of the one go

I don't think I could clear a full bowl with the Tornado in one go. I just now vaped a bowl that was full and it took me about three monster pulls and a small cleanup to clear it. Each pull required a re-heat. I'm still working solely with the Wand and the re-heats only take about 7-8 flashes (sec) so I don't mind it at all. The bowl is much tastier that way.

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Image image in Lmcphha's images album

ibb.co

 

[eyevape]

Back to heating methods, I‘ve been trying this lately:

Kitchen torch with a large flame. Heat in the middle of the bowl. I always give the thinner end of the stem a lick too, to make sure that's warmed up. About 10 seconds all in all. Heat till 1st click, no further.

My torch is a little less powerful, taking about 14 seconds. The muted flavor I reported earlier has turned to amazing, effects are remarkable and the smoothness still baffles me ever once in a while. Double the flame half the time is still key here. The bigger the flame, the faster the heat up, the better the flavor. AVB is a little light for my taste, but after a second heat up it’s cooked nicely without being charred.

The Tornado isn’t my daily driver as this could potentially ramp up my already high tolerance. But I reach for it whenever I‘d like to be more thoroughly stoned than usual, this works great every time. Like a joker, always capable to deliver a hard hit when others won’t hit hard enough anymore.

 

[PrematureEvaporation]

Back to heating methods, I‘ve been trying this lately:

My torch is a little less powerful, taking about 14 seconds. The muted flavor I reported earlier has turned to amazing, effects are remarkable and the smoothness still baffles me ever once in a while. Double the flame half the time is still key here. The bigger the flame, the faster the heat up, the better the flavor. AVB is a little light for my taste, but after a second heat up it’s cooked nicely without being charred.

The Tornado isn’t my daily driver as this could potentially ramp up my already high tolerance. But I reach for it whenever I‘d like to be more thoroughly stoned than usual, this works great every time. Like a joker, always capable to deliver a hard hit when others won’t hit hard enough anymore.

That’s interesting you say that. I’ve noticed a lot of users in the main thread seem to be slowly moving away from the paint method and onto blasting the centre of the oven with a big flame. I knew that as the convection tek with the Anvil, I think I learnt it from @Whiff in the early days.

I suppose it mimics the way the forge applies heat, which is what the Tornado was initially designed for. Get a lot of heat in there fast and let the coppercore get it where it needs to be

I think it was @Duba who uses a triple flame lighter and gets dark brown AVB in one heat cycle? Hopefully they’ll come in here and share their technique too. I’m particularly interested in results with small triple and quad flames as they’ve always been my preference to a bigger torch.

 

[Duba]

I think it was @Duba who uses a triple flame lighter and gets dark brown AVB in one heat cycle? Hopefully they’ll come in here and share their technique too. I’m particularly interested in results with small triple and quad flames as they’ve always been my preference to a bigger torch.

My technique is to torch the middle of the oven until the 1st click (+/-25sec), then the second atty until the 2nd click (+ around 10sec).
Triple flame, but set so as not to be too powerful. Warning, this is a RTL technique.
I'd like to point out that the clicks on my Tornado are quite far apart, which allows me to adjust the settings precisely (sometimes I stop just before the 2nd click when I feel it's crackling a lot inside). I've read that for others they're very close, which must change things a bit i guess.

 

[AndyO]

I've got the Wand pretty much locked in at 600 degrees until time out. I wanted the slowest heat possible with the Wand - so it was about finding the right temperature to get it to time out, for the 1he and the AVB roast that I want, without having to count flashes or listen for clicks.

Makes for a pretty amazing one-hitter, I find it quite different to when I'm heating it with a Ronxs torch, which I use on a single flame, heating just above the dots while rotating.

 

[PrematureEvaporation]

My technique is to torch the middle of the oven until the 1st click (+/-25sec), then the second atty until the 2nd click (+ around 10sec).
Triple flame, but set so as not to be too powerful. Warning, this is a RTL technique.
I'd like to point out that the clicks on my Tornado are quite far apart, which allows me to adjust the settings precisely (sometimes I stop just before the 2nd click when I feel it's crackling a lot inside). I've read that for others they're very close, which must change things a bit i guess.

Now that’s what I’m talking about! Perfect roast with a nice pocketable triple flame. Thanks for sharing this Duba. We’ve not had too much about triples and quads in this thread so it’s valuable information. I’ll be using your technique when I get mine, think I’ve said that before too

@AndyO

Thanks for sharing your wand experience! I know those original posts were running to the click with the wand. It’s an excellent idea to use the temperature setting (timer really) to fine tune the roast.

 

[eyevape]

Triple flame

I‘ve never been able to find a pocket torch with two or more flames that doesn’t suck. Do you have recommendations?

Meanwhile I advise you to try the biggest torch you can find, first click. You’ll be surprised

 

[PrematureEvaporation]

I‘ve never been able to find a pocket torch with two or more flames that doesn’t suck. Do you have recommendations?

Meanwhile I advise you to try the biggest torch you can find, first click. You’ll be surprised

I’ve spent a lot on triple and quad torches over the years, and the best ones I’ve had are from either the Honest or Vertigo brand

The vertigo cyclone is a very affordable triple that is widely used with vapes, love mine

 

[Roffa]

I don't think I could clear a full bowl with the Tornado in one go. I just now vaped a bowl that was full and it took me about three monster pulls and a small cleanup to clear it. Each pull required a re-heat. I'm still working solely with the Wand and the re-heats only take about 7-8 flashes (sec) so I don't mind it at all. The bowl is much tastier that way.

image hosted at ImgBB

Image image in Lmcphha's images album

ibb.co

try the reheat in the Wand while pulling. You'll see the vapor increase, you'll feel the temperature of the vapor rise. Usually when I use this as cues for the reheat I stop heating just before click.

 

[Duba]

I‘ve never been able to find a pocket torch with two or more flames that doesn’t suck. Do you have recommendations?

i'm happy with this one (around 2 years of use) :
https://aficionados.fr/briquet-a-ci...-torches-palio-vesuvio.html#/25-couleurs-noir

I like to use the fast heating method with the Inductor (8sec)

 

[PrematureEvaporation]

@Duba That lighter you linked is really nice. Think I’ll have to pick one of those up too

I’d like to add a useful tip for those who don’t already know, or any newbies coming in here - if your torch starts to sputter and become inconsistent with the flames it’s usually from poor quality fuel, and not purging/bleeding it between refills. Always use high quality clean butane and purge the tank of all fuel and air left before refilling. There’s some great guides on YouTube for this. You’ll get noticeably better performance and a longer lifespan for your torches if you treat them well. This technique can often revive “dead” torches too

 

[eyevape]

purge the tank of all fuel and air left before refilling

I didn’t know that, thanks Just tried it out with good results, some fancy torches got usable again. My industry torches didn’t suffer so much from all those years of just refilling, but even they could improve by the treatment.

Speaking of which, one can imagine what I used those stronger flames for Seems that with this kind of flames counting the seconds works better than waiting for the click. 10 seconds produces tons of tasty vapor, 15 seconds (first click) reduces vapor amount and taste.

 

[Roffa]

Bought a Camouflex Inductor. (yay discount!) and it arrived today. I (also) use for medical reasons, and I'm in bed quite a lot. A torch is not really ideal in this scenario. Mind you, I love the Tornado with a good torching. The hotter the better.
I also use a wand and the Tornado is more than fine with the wand. However, you need to finesse it a bit to get out the best results.
I bought the Forge, but alas.

To me, the secret to the Tornado is that it likes to be hot, especially the letter bit. And short and hot is better than long and colder. That is the reason why the Forge needs to be able to deliver so much power.

So I opted for the Inductor because of its output. I read stories of people easily combusting because it can be so powerful, but also a very encouraging video of heating the Tornado with the Inductor.

It has a design that is so sympathetic to the user, with its lift off tray and its radio button. A very sensible design too.
I set it at 21 W. Maybe I'll try whether I can up the wattage. I heat up the letters a bit to get the device warmed up. Then I do about 3 seconds along the oven and already start hitting. Very terpy. 2 seconds more get me to click. Then I can hit, letting the temp drop to cool down click. Heat up for 2-3 seconds. Etc. In total I apply max 6 seconds of direct energy to the oven so that there is very little direct cooking of the flower. Is this what the cascade setting is programmed to do, stack the heat ups?

So. Wand for travel. Inductor for home. I like how simple it is. And how you just hold the head, because the power supply is in the box. This too will need some subtlety, but as a first try these are very nice results. And no combustion

 

[TedJones]

Good to hear @Roffa. I have the inductor ordered.. can’t wait!

 

[Roffa]

Good to hear @Roffa. I have the inductor ordered.. can’t wait!

Started experimenting with it already: now at 24W: a 1 second press immediately ups the temperature of the vapor. A warm up of the stem is always a good idea, after that, 2 1-second pulses already get the terpenes going. After that you can stretch, slowly building the heat retention to click. Because of the copper the energy distributes almost immediately. Something subtly different about the vapor effect too.

PS, I really like the simplicity and robustness of the Inductor.

 

[Roffa]

PPS: very convincing. If you're waiting for the Forge, the Inductor is certainly something you should consider. IMO it does up the game because it gives you very short direct cooking times. And it's possible to preheat the gasifier only. Admiring once more the impressive feat of engineering that is the Tornado. Heat distribution is almost instantaneous. And yet it is so simple looking and inconspicuous. I can also heat directly on the inlet holes, without burning the flower

 

[TigoleBitties]

Bought a Camouflex Inductor. (yay discount!) and it arrived today. I (also) use for medical reasons, and I'm in bed quite a lot. A torch is not really ideal in this scenario. Mind you, I love the Tornado with a good torching. The hotter the better.
I also use a wand and the Tornado is more than fine with the wand. However, you need to finesse it a bit to get out the best results.
I bought the Forge, but alas.

To me, the secret to the Tornado is that it likes to be hot, especially the letter bit. And short and hot is better than long and colder. That is the reason why the Forge needs to be able to deliver so much power.

So I opted for the Inductor because of its output. I read stories of people easily combusting because it can be so powerful, but also a very encouraging video of heating the Tornado with the Inductor.

It has a design that is so sympathetic to the user, with its lift off tray and its radio button. A very sensible design too.
I set it at 21 W. Maybe I'll try whether I can up the wattage. I heat up the letters a bit to get the device warmed up. Then I do about 3 seconds along the oven and already start hitting. Very terpy. 2 seconds more get me to click. Then I can hit, letting the temp drop to cool down click. Heat up for 2-3 seconds. Etc. In total I apply max 6 seconds of direct energy to the oven so that there is very little direct cooking of the flower. Is this what the cascade setting is programmed to do, stack the heat ups?

So. Wand for travel. Inductor for home. I like how simple it is. And how you just hold the head, because the power supply is in the box. This too will need some subtlety, but as a first try these are very nice results. And no combustion

Really cool write-up. Thanks for that!
I've read and watched a lot of material on the Inductor and it's impressive. The early problems seem to be worked out and it has game-changing power. I'll surely own one eventually because why would you use any other IH at home?

Good to hear @Roffa. I have the inductor ordered.. can’t wait!

Nice! Hope you enjoy it and looking forward to your thoughts.

 

[Roffa]

PPS: very convincing. If you're waiting for the Forge, the Inductor is certainly something you should consider. IMO it does up the game because it gives you very short direct cooking times. And it's possible to preheat the gasifier only. Admiring once more the impressive feat of engineering that is the Tornado. Heat distribution is almost instantaneous. And yet it is so simple looking and inconspicuous. I can also heat directly on the inlet holes, without burning the flower

I increased wattage bit by bit and I'm now at 26 W and interesting possibilities. Now that I can spot heat the letters, I'm finding out that this determines the color of the roast. Shorter first warm up is lighter.
Camouflet warns against wearing jewellery while Inducting. If you wear a mechanical watch, maybe remove it, because I think there's a lot of potential magnetization (the watchmaker's bane). The Tornado's alloy favors induction heaters. That's already noticeable with the Wand, and the Inductor equally likes the Tornado. Maybe the Forge's complexity is due to wanting to automate the temperature stacking that is possible with so much power. The big advantage of the Inductor is that you can spot heat.

I wonder what your experiences will be @TedJones

 

[TigoleBitties]

So I don't know if this has been noted before but with all this talk about heating different sections of the Tornado, I realized that I had never made a serious attempt to see if the Tornado fits straight through the Wand - and it does, just barely. I can push the tip through and heat the Vestratto letters area for example or the air inlet holes.

Of course it'll never have the focus of an Inductor tip for "spot heating" but I suppose it still moves the field enough to possibly make a difference. So I tried heating the Vestratto logo as a warm-up for 8 sec before heating the tip normally to just before the click. I didn't notice much of difference. Perhaps if I heat the logo area exclusively until just before the click .... I'll try a few things.