Venty by Storz & Bickel

Jojofernz

Well-Known Member
To me it is totally irrelevant.

I think they made a huge mistake pricing it that high. It will keep a lot of people from buying it.
I would like to think. But as clear by several users already, it’s loyal fan base doesn’t see the price tag as high and will drop the $450 just because it’s Storz & Bickel.

I still can’t pass judgement on the device and would love to see how it actually performs.

But $450 man what I can buy with $450 inside and outside of the vapor world, this thing better be revolutionary at that price.

Edit: also just a question, sorry if not allowed, but I see a lot of people saying Mighty and Crafty have the best cooling of a portable, is this true?

Where does the infamous “bickel tickle” come from then? I’ve never used an S&B device but it was one of the main reasons I stayed away, was that people complained of the harsh and uncomfortable vapor.

So why is it now I see so many saying they have the coolest vapor?

Cool vapor is a huge plus for me and I thought that’s where these things failed. Thanks in advance for any answer!
 
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DadaBoo

B2, Mighty+, M/Omni, Volcano Hybrid, TM2, Anvil
I like the look of the Venty and I have no doubt that Santa will be slipping one down my chimney this Christmas...ho ho.

It is pricey though...

Mind you, I just had a quick look on Vapefiend.co.uk and they are selling the Venty for £388.00. They sell the Mighty for £339.00 (although its currently discounted to £295.00)...

That's only £49 more expensive than a mighty at its recommended price point.

Now I know you can get a Mighty cheaper than that (I bagged mine for £239...new). I suspect it won't be too long before we see some nice bargains popping up..

Black Friday FTW maybe?

Either way, this vape is in the bag.
 

tashian

Well-Known Member
For me the main advantage of the Mighty is how it performs in a repetive way, independently of the expertise level of who is using it. I have never seen this in any other vape, the Airvape legacy pro comes close. In terms of vapour cooling, it is true that it cools quite well even compared with some of the veneered vapes around here ( I can not stand the TM2 in direct takes) but in my opinion the Legacy Pro cools vapour even more compared with the Mighty. For a group session which is better...for me the Mighty no doubts.
 

leanpubpackage

Well-Known Member
you know...this looks promising, if you disregard the price. The heater looks similar to the firewood 9 (which hits HARD), and if it's able to keep up with that amount of airflow, it should produce some good clouds. 130w is no slouch! Limiting the temp to 410 keeps it a native device with the complex CU.

With a 20s heat up, it would be better if this had an on-demand setting.

I appreciate the marketing effort behind this, without any of the pre-release hype crap to "reviewers"

i'm excited to how how this performs once it's in people's hands.
 
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Razhumikin

Well-Known Member
Edit: also just a question, sorry if not allowed, but I see a lot of people saying Mighty and Crafty have the best cooling of a portable, is this true?
No, its not really even close to true. Any vape with more modularity on the mouthpiece can have significantly better cooling i.e. a 510 or milaana by virtue of third party stems/bubblers.
 

Herbie

Well-Known Member
I will say, this thread is amazing with regard to the reasons that many of you seem inclined to hate this vape before it’s even been reviewed. Lots of energy there.

I hadn’t even heard of some of the reasons. Everything from a Bickel Tickle to the fact S&B also offers a case for the Venty. LOL. Just get me high man.

All I know is that the Mighty has been a stellar regular performer for me over the years. I also own a Plenty and a Volcano. I have no worries buying the Venty. I’m sure it will be an upgrade to the Mighty. My VAS (am I doing that right?) needed to be satisfied.

I surely hope to be able to come back on here soon and provide a review for y’all. I’m just a flavor chaser on the hunt for the next best thing.
 

Arawfish

Tree climber
I thought this was a joke when I first heard about it, sad to see it’s not! Y’all are really gonna pay almost half a band (more if you’re in Aus/Can, etc) for this literal piece of garbage? God awful design and specs aside, y’all are just paying into a big corporate entity that doesn’t care one bit about any of you. But hey, not my dollars 🤷🏼‍♂️😂
 

LAWTHEONE

CLOUDYWITHFOG/ZEROVISIBILITY
I’m guessing this thing was designed to outperform the mighty. I’m a vapor bong guy, so I pray my water piece adapter fits. If not, I’m sure I can get some tubing around the mouth piece.
I do wish the temperature went to 430 but I understand. If this thing is capable of doing the things I’m dreaming it can this could definitely be the nail in the coffin to a lot of vapes. Anything that can keep my wallet, closed for a significant period of time is a winner to me.
I can’t stop thinking about the wattage on the heater there’s gotta be something going on. This thing could potentially be a fog machine.
I will be ordering soon
 

seki

Well-Known Member
Physics. But expanding the answer, look for example ball vapes. The coils put out 130W and more and they need the balls and heating them for around 10 minutes initially, to produce enough energy to have the air at a close to stable temperature. We will see, I'm willing to be proven wrong, but I am pretty sure you can not do it with a 130W heater (without balls and heating for 20 seconds).
I'm curious to see how this ends up working myself. To give a different example, I can heat a Supreme using a Blazer GT8000, which is admittedly an enormous torch, and get it to a stable vaping temp in about a minute. It's not necessarily the most pleasant of experiences, but it's usable. The Supreme heat exchanger is an aluminum block approximately 4cm x 3cm x 2cm. Going by the dimensions posted earlier, the Venty is 3.7cm in depth. Given that the heater looks to be cylindrical, I'm guessing it's somewhere around 2cm-2.5cm in diameter give or take so it maybe looks to be a little less than half the size of the Supreme block.

I know induction heaters are a different animal entirely, but @Brenyo sounds like he's got designs on heating a small portable ball vape up to stable vaping temps very quickly using a 120w device and some "next gen magic":
It’s either going to be a Tempest AIO and regular IH hybrid or just a “regular” IH with advanced options, likely 2x21700 and around 120W max power. It will be the smallest size possible with some next gen magic :science: We’ll see what I can come up with once the Tempest is ready.
Maybe the expanded software development capability S&B mentioned plays into the Venty heating in a similar way. But this is just pure speculation from someone who was terrible at science in school. I guess we'll see once reviews start to show up.

Edit: also just a question, sorry if not allowed, but I see a lot of people saying Mighty and Crafty have the best cooling of a portable, is this true?

Where does the infamous “bickel tickle” come from then? I’ve never used an S&B device but it was one of the main reasons I stayed away, was that people complained of the harsh and uncomfortable vapor.
I think this is subjective and really only applies to strictly native use. Pretty much every device out there, Mighty and Crafty included, have 3rd party attachments you can use to connect them to j-hooks and bubblers, etc.

I find the vapour a little on the harsh and dry side, especially when running at higher temperatures. I assume it comes from the fact that all of their devices share the same heater technology, made from the same material.
 

chlorophyll_man

AVB Inspector
Physics. But expanding the answer, look for example ball vapes. The coils put out 130W and more and they need the balls and heating them for around 10 minutes initially, to produce enough energy to have the air at a close to stable temperature. We will see, I'm willing to be proven wrong, but I am pretty sure you can not do it with a 130W heater (without balls and heating for 20 seconds).
I think that what is different here is that the the Venty uses hybrid heating, so the bowl/herb is hot before it is even supplied with hot air. Versus the ball vapes that are applying heat to a "cold" bowl/herb.
 

BeltedCoyote

Foggin up the woods
I think that what is different here is that the the Venty uses hybrid heating, so the bowl/herb is hot before it is even supplied with hot air. Versus the ball vapes that are applying heat to a "cold" bowl/herb.

Didn't the mighty+ and crafty+ get the hybrid heating too? I was under the impression that's what made them "+"?
 
BeltedCoyote,

Varden

Well-Known Member
I'm curious to see how this ends up working myself. To give a different example, I can heat a Supreme using a Blazer GT8000, which is admittedly an enormous torch, and get it to a stable vaping temp in about a minute. It's not necessarily the most pleasant of experiences, but it's usable. The Supreme heat exchanger is an aluminum block approximately 4cm x 3cm x 2cm. Going by the dimensions posted earlier, the Venty is 3.7cm in depth. Given that the heater looks to be cylindrical, I'm guessing it's somewhere around 2cm-2.5cm in diameter give or take so it maybe looks to be a little less than half the size of the Supreme block.

I know induction heaters are a different animal entirely, but @Brenyo sounds like he's got designs on heating a small portable ball vape up to stable vaping temps very quickly using a 120w device and some "next gen magic":

You are probably supplying orders of magnitude higher than 130W with the torch. Burning gas produces A LOT of energy. I am a bit sceptical about how much mass the oven of this device can have if it heats in 20 seconds with 130W. Again, the closest comparison is a ball vape. But we will be able to stop speculating and just see soon enough.

I find the vapour a little on the harsh and dry side, especially when running at higher temperatures. I assume it comes from the fact that all of their devices share the same heater technology, made from the same material.

Hybrids tend to be harsher than pure convection. It is inevitable by design, having the oven so close will produce a bit more combustion in certain parts of the herb. That is why I prefer pure convection vapes and also believe they are healthier.
 

MDude

Well-Known Member
You are probably supplying orders of magnitude higher than 130W with the torch. Burning gas produces A LOT of energy. I am a bit sceptical about how much mass the oven of this device can have if it heats in 20 seconds with 130W. Again, the closest comparison is a ball vape. But we will be able to stop speculating and just see soon enough.



Hybrids tend to be harsher than pure convection. It is inevitable by design, having the oven so close will produce a bit more combustion in certain parts of the herb. That is why I prefer pure convection vapes and also believe they are healthier.
There is no combustion in s&b vapes.
 

Cheebsy

Microbe minion
On the subject of the 130w heater keeping up, I don't think you need to worry...

The ball vape analogy is out of place here. Essentially ball vapes are high mass heaters with reasonable high surface area heat exchanger. They need time to absorb that energy because of the mass. It makes no sense to try to heat up mass like that with battery power unless you accept a low number of sessions. Now think about the TM with it's coil (I suspect this doesn't have a coil but who knows yet...). The coil is very low mass but also high surface area. The PID software is easily able to keep up with long draws and the heater is 70w in the og and 75w for v2. If s&b had adopted a super low mass heater with high surface area it might be really good, and it would allow some "on demand" style use by switching off miss session and cooking the heater right down quickly.
 

seki

Well-Known Member
You are probably supplying orders of magnitude higher than 130W with the torch. Burning gas produces A LOT of energy. I am a bit sceptical about how much mass the oven of this device can have if it heats in 20 seconds with 130W. Again, the closest comparison is a ball vape. But we will be able to stop speculating and just see soon enough.
The torch definitely outputs quite a bit, but in comparing to a ball vape we're also likely dealing with different materials that have different levels of heat conductivity. Assuming the Venty heater is still made of aluminum, it is far superior to both stainless steel and quartz in terms of heat conductivity. Quartz is even often used as a thermal insulator in different applications.

Aside from all of that, in a ball vape the heating matrix is always heated up indirectly. The heat source comes into contact with the housing, and the housing in turn heats up the glass balls inside, so naturally when coupled with PIDs not really optimized for vaping purposes, you're going to get a slower heat up time. It's not comparable to a heating matrix made out of a single material with higher conductivity that's directly connected to a heat source. Comparing them in that way doesn't really apply, IMO.

I like most of the discussion that spawns from speculation personally, I tend to learn a lot, especially here. But I am looking forward to seeing it in action too.
 
seki,
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Varden

Well-Known Member
There is no combustion in s&b vapes.
There is always a bit of combustion in all vapes. It is inevitable. Call it microcombustions if you don't like calling it combustion.

There is a reason why pure convection vapes have smoother vapor than hybrids/conduction.

On the subject of the 130w heater keeping up, I don't think you need to worry...

The ball vape analogy is out of place here. Essentially ball vapes are high mass heaters with reasonable high surface area heat exchanger. They need time to absorb that energy because of the mass. It makes no sense to try to heat up mass like that with battery power unless you accept a low number of sessions. Now think about the TM with it's coil (I suspect this doesn't have a coil but who knows yet...). The coil is very low mass but also high surface area. The PID software is easily able to keep up with long draws and the heater is 70w in the og and 75w for v2. If s&b had adopted a super low mass heater with high surface area it might be really good, and it would allow some "on demand" style use by switching off miss session and cooking the heater right down quickly.

You are missing the point of bringing ball vapes here. Someone asked why I was assuming that the 130W heater would not be able to keep the temperature constant while air is passing through. My point is that ball inside chambers heated during 10 minutes is necessary to keep the temperature close to constant when air is passing through, a 130W, as insane as that is for a portable, will not be able to. The TM2 can not for example, as good as it is. That is the whole point of ball vapes having enough mass to "store" so much energy that air passing by gets heated almost evenly. And as I said in the previous message I am willing to be proven wrong, but I would find it surprising because of the physics of the problem.

The torch definitely outputs quite a bit, but in comparing to a ball vape we're also likely dealing with different materials that have different levels of heat conductivity. Assuming the Venty heater is still made of aluminum, it is far superior to both stainless steel and quartz in terms of heat conductivity. Quartz is even often used as a thermal insulator in different applications.

Aside from all of that, in a ball vape the heating matrix is always heated up indirectly. The heat source comes into contact with the housing, and the housing in turn heats up the glass balls inside, so naturally when coupled with PIDs not really optimized for vaping purposes, you're going to get a slower heat up time. It's not comparable to a heating matrix made out of a single material with higher conductivity that's directly connected to a heat source. Comparing them in that way doesn't really apply, IMO.

I like most of the discussion that spawns from speculation personally, I tend to learn a lot, especially here. But I am looking forward to seeing it in action too.

Again, the only point of bringing ball vapes here is to explain why I think the 130W heater will not be able to keep the air at constant temperature as it passes through. Obviously they are very different devices. But we will see.
 
Varden,
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Cheebsy

Microbe minion
But it's not a ball vape is it? It's almost definately a low mass heater, it needs to be otherwise they would get charge longevity complaints!

Contrary to popular opinion, mass is not everything. in fact it can be a negative if you want your heater to quickly respond to different conditions, like inhalation speed.
 

MoltenTiger

Well-Known Member
I've been staring at the images on the S-B website of the insides of the Venty, with my focus on the cooling airpath, which feature is the reason I've already spent good money buying a Crafty and then a Crafty+. As a former cigarette and dope smoker of 50 plus years, my lungs are sensitive and need the vapor sent through a bubbler or cooling airpath. As far as my chronic research shows, the Craftys and Mightys have more cooling than any other vapes. By making the vapor path double back on itself, the Venty appears to have the most cooling of any portable vape currently on the market, only challenged by those other two S-B products. Leaving price aside, this makes the Venty the most attractive vape to people like me.

Another consideration, given the high price and the non-replaceable batteries: My og Crafty had the bluetooth fail after nearly two years of daily use. S-B replaced it for free in less than a week, without any hassle whatsoever, with the then current "20% more battery life" model. When the battery on that one started leading to fewer and fewer sessions after two years of daily use, S-B let me buy the Crafty + second(and still current) iteration for $120 bucks. How many companies are willing to stand behind their products like this?

RE: Plastic: Personally I love the way my Craftys looked. Though slow to heat up, from a design perspective, they are the BMW of vapes. Given that S-B products are the only medically certified vapes and that they are certified in the EU with its almost insane regulatory stringency, I am not worried in the least about the health impacts of using a plastic vape from S-B. In terms of questions people raise about the fragility of the plastic fins: I'm an active outdoors person who has brought his Craftys along on numerous bike, hike, ski, snowshoe adventures in the summers heat and the winters cold(I live in NH's White Mtns). They've fallen out of my pack and pockets into the snow and on to rocks without even a hint of damage.
The Crafty is the most appealing S&B product to me. It has the neatest, most practical design. It would have many great use cases, just not as my daily driver. Too slow, finnicky, no swapable battery. S&Bs other designs are far less neat, and actually are all rather quaint. The Plenty takes the cake. Although the performance is fine, the ergonomics and whole device is whacky. The Venty is too brutalist, not enough Bauhaus.

The Mighty actually had a design iteration due to the fins breaking. Seeing the exposed fins on the top of the Venty stood out to me as a potential repeat to their previous bad QA. It's quite a minor thing perhaps. But it speaks volumes to me. I see this as throwaway tech with a 36 month lifespan, that is the attitude that surrounds it.
The Volcano fittings had a redesign due to Al particulate being generated.
The medical certification is not indicative of personal safety of using their devices, beyond fairly boring metrics that normally wouldn't concern anyone in the real world, it is equivalent to IEC 60601 hardware testing. It is a multi-facated marketing ploy. It couldn't get FDA approval so you won't see those rebranded units outside of the EU. However you will hear about their achievement as the only medically approved vape products. Because no one else is playing their games. Should they?
Someome in such a position, instead of or increasingly acting anti-competitively, could substantiate a relative standard/code for the industry, instead of choosing one for clout and to have falsely represented. Something is needed to promote real health and safety for everyone, but plastic is cheap, their ~0.50 USD enclosures/cooling units cost would skyrocket and profits plummet to choose any other material, they couldn't afford ridiculous video production and wild promotions. I think that would be responsible, and is frankly needed. Either prove it is suitable material or use something that is, and don't hoodwink everyone like Tupperware pre 2010. It is the Wild West out here for real. Don't be a sucker for a savvy tycoon. They will lie to your face, lungs, any chance they get for a measly dollar.

I've heard mixed things about their warranty. But as you are buying at effectively multiple unit costs, it is good and expected that they have managed to look after you, and it makes very good business sense to do so, which to me is their priority over vape innovation and/or offering anything in a category I could use.
It's a smart play but they aren't making real waves just splashing about and taking up all the attention.

Glad I have the TM2 because otherwise portable vapes can be a headache!
That said I bet the Venty (more importantly some top shelf) would help wlth that. It's not going to be a bad unit. I just want someone to make a viable GH, that thing was not a dud despite the failure to deliver. It should have sold for these insane prices, but you have to play games to exist at this level, at any level I suppose. So the ones doing so, should unleash real power and a better standard. We'll see but I won't be surprised, not enough is built for an enthusiast like me.

But it's not a ball vape is it? It's almost definately a low mass heater, it needs to be otherwise they would get charge longevity complaints!

Contrary to popular opinion, mass is not everything. in fact it can be a negative if you want your heater to quickly respond to different conditions, like inhalation speed.
Hopper io was ~70W peak, it's insulation helped significantly. The laser sintered heater geometry allowed for same-as-target temps and super even extraction. Instant heat up, extreme power efficiency and exchange.
Put that tech in something this size and then you have something interesting for all the right reasons. However something this size is laughably useless, at least cumbersome. This thing has a coil wrapped around a cylinder, it's very uninspiring.
 
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Varden

Well-Known Member
But it's not a ball vape is it? It's almost definately a low mass heater, it needs to be otherwise they would get charge longevity complaints!

Contrary to popular opinion, mass is not everything. in fact it can be a negative if you want your heater to quickly respond to different conditions, like inhalation speed.

It is not, but I'm not sure where you think I said it was. And you are 100% correct that lower mass helps respond quickly.

The only reason I brought up ball vapes is to explain why I think 130W is not going to be enough to not drop the temperature while air is going through and hence why I am not sure how the flow sensor is going to help the PID. Not sure why you guys found it so weird.
 

MDude

Well-Known Member
There is always a bit of combustion in all vapes. It is inevitable. Call it microcombustions if you don't like calling it combustion.

There is a reason why pure convection vapes have smoother vapor than hybrids/conduction.



You are missing the point of bringing ball vapes here. Someone asked why I was assuming that the 130W heater would not be able to keep the temperature constant while air is passing through. My point is that ball inside chambers heated during 10 minutes is necessary to keep the temperature close to constant when air is passing through, a 130W, as insane as that is for a portable, will not be able to. The TM2 can not for example, as good as it is. That is the whole point of ball vapes having enough mass to "store" so much energy that air passing by gets heated almost evenly. And as I said in the previous message I am willing to be proven wrong, but I would find it surprising because of the physics of the problem.



Again, the only point of bringing ball vapes here is to explain why I think the 130W heater will not be able to keep the air at constant temperature as it passes through. Obviously they are very different devices. But we will see.
I don't think combustion can occur at 210°C nor microcombustion as you say.
 
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