Vaporization temperature dependent selection of effects

shopdognyc

Well-Known Member
An obvious answer to a thoughtless question. As I'm evolving or growing with this, thought maybe finding that kind of a nuance would be good. Some of my friends who smoke tell me that they don't or barely do now, for various reasons. I've just made it a necessary part for me to unwind after a day, but maybe some days call for something lighter.
 
shopdognyc,

Okla68

Well-Known Member
An obvious answer to a thoughtless question. As I'm evolving or growing with this, thought maybe finding that kind of a nuance would be good. Some of my friends who smoke tell me that they don't or barely do now, for various reasons. I've just made it a necessary part for me to unwind after a day, but maybe some days call for something lighter.
Microdosing to me is Reducing Temps and # of draws I take before quitting.
The size of the load Dosent IMO relate to Microdosing, its the Temp and # of inhales I take before calling it Good to Go !
Thats why the "Microdosing Basket" for the new Legacy is sorta a joke...just take a couple of draws as opposed to sucking down the whole thing, simple !!!
 

ginolicious

Well-Known Member
Microdosing to me is Reducing Temps and # of draws I take before quitting.
The size of the load Dosent IMO relate to Microdosing, its the Temp and # of inhales I take before calling it Good to Go !
Thats why the "Microdosing Basket" for the new Legacy is sorta a joke...just take a couple of draws as opposed to sucking down the whole thing, simple !!!

Some people like to vape 1/2 a .1g. I know I use to micro dose that way in my vapir rise.

Now I just pack a full firefly bowl and take a hit and then put it away. Sometimes all I need is one nice hit.

Also like to note. I rarely smoke thc. I smoke cbd. And sometimes a 1:1 that’s valued at 6-8%
 

3dfx-glide

Boats & Harbors
Microdosing to me is Reducing Temps and # of draws I take before quitting.
The size of the load Dosent IMO relate to Microdosing, its the Temp and # of inhales I take before calling it Good to Go !
Thats why the "Microdosing Basket" for the new Legacy is sorta a joke...just take a couple of draws as opposed to sucking down the whole thing, simple !!!
You mean taking one hit off of a .25g load will have the same THC going into you as taking one hit off a .03g load? :mental: the more material, the more THC total, the more THC vaporized per inhale.

You are right that number of inhales, how deep/long they are, and possibly temp all do play an important role though. It's a balancing act, with the goal of being 'satisfied' with as little material going into your system as possible, instead of overdoing it like the majority of the population unknowingly do
 

Haze Mister

Verdant Bloomer
Manufacturer
Thats why the "Microdosing Basket" for the new Legacy is sorta a joke...just take a couple of draws as opposed to sucking down the whole thing, simple !!!

If you do that, the herb left in the bowl for later won't be as nice as a fresh load. It is more efficient to use a bowl/ basket that's the right size for the amount you want to vape, and just finish the load.
 

hinglemccringleberry

Well-Known Member
If you do that, the herb left in the bowl for later won't be as nice as a fresh load. It is more efficient to use a bowl/ basket that's the right size for the amount you want to vape, and just finish the load.
I would argue that quick heating convection vapes minimize this issue. Sometimes you're in a situation where you want to save some for later without having to reload later. On demand convection shines for that.
It's when you try to use a session conduction vape this way where the load really deteriorates (ask me how I know, LOL).
 
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ChilledAsian

Well-Known Member
Seems to be to me,you?
I use an Ih with my 20m and a torch with the vapman. For some reason I get a bit of a denser vapor on my vapman than my 20M, but the 20m hits me harder though. The vapman high isn't as harder but the high seems to be a bit longer IME.
 
ChilledAsian,
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bulllee

Agent Provocateur
I use an Ih with my 20m and a torch with the vapman. For some reason I get a bit of a denser vapor on my vapman than my 20M, but the 20m hits me harder though. The vapman high isn't as harder but the high seems to be a bit longer IME.
I have a old Lucid desktop ih, and a Flux Deluxe. When I use the Lucid I get a more mellow type rip with about 3 very nice clicks per cap. With the Flux it will clear a cap in one click. The difference is notable and I'm sure it has a lot to do with coil size, but the fact it heats at different temps and times resulting in different types of vapor intrigues me. So I like to use the Lucid with my Omni and some very terpy flower, and my Flux when I'm out and about (battery life is incredible) and it works great on concentrates ! I tried taking temps with an infrared thermometer on the tips when I pull them out just to see what they run. It was a PIA :rofl:
 

BreadrunsAway

New Member
Hi I'm new, amazing article at the beginning, some proper life changing stuff for someone who gets an irritated throat easily and always has to bake it at over 400f even the full 441f - 2 things I've learned today - vape at a lower temperature to get "more" out of it and save the remnants to put into edibles (which i'm already a dab hand at making)

One thing I am really interested in is the fact that if I vape my stuff at a lower temperature that it doesn't activate the sedative compounds then If I were to turn that throw away into edibles would the edibles only give me the sedative effect because if that's the case that's mental to know that you can alter your high in edibles like you can while vaping at different temperatures!
 

BreadrunsAway

New Member
Does anyone else feel like vaping at lower temps just decreases the effects you get from the same amount of bud?

Well it depends if you want to be medicated or just get high? its why a tobacco smoker will always prefer a joint over vaping because he/she is used to burning away some of the effects and only getting the effects that they are used to, when you vape (especially medicinally) that same bit of bud that might last 10mins in a joint could last 2 hours being vaped at 3 seperate temperatures, yes you would experience very different effects but it would last you longer where as a joint wears off within an hour,

since reading the article I think I have my routine down perfectly, will vape at 165 then go back to it once that's worn off and vape at 185, then the AVB gets chucked in a pot ready to be vaped at 205-220 late in the evening ready for sleep......of course I wont feel as high as I did when vaping at 185 but then I dont necessarily need to when its late at night, all I need is that sedation! same as if I vape high without already vaping it at lower temperatures, yes it will fuck me up more but maybe that's not what I want at 10am on a Sunday morning
 

Drug

Well-Known Member
Does anyone else feel like vaping at lower temps just decreases the effects you get from the same amount of bud?

Yeah, up to a certain point it does. But I don't get less high when the abv is already pretty darkish brown as I do when it's darker brown.

its why a tobacco smoker will always prefer a joint over vaping because he/she is used to burning away some of the effects and only getting the effects that they are used to, when you vape (especially medicinally) that same bit of bud that might last 10mins in a joint could last 2 hours being vaped at 3 seperate temperatures, yes you would experience very different effects but it would last you longer where as a joint wears off within an hour,

I get the difference in effect with the burning and the addition of tobacco, but the temporal difference doesn't ring true as there's no rules pertaining to how long one'd take to finish a certain weight of herb in a joint vis-a-vis in a vape.
 
Drug,

BreadrunsAway

New Member
Yeah, up to a certain point it does. But I don't get less high when the abv is already pretty darkish brown as I do when it's darker brown.



I get the difference in effect with the burning and the addition of tobacco, but the temporal difference doesn't ring true as there's no rules pertaining to how long one'd take to finish a certain weight of herb in a joint vis-a-vis in a vape.

I think you mistake my point, my argument is that if you smoke in a joint then you are getting rid of that bud in a singular way (combustion) and with that you are burning away properties which would induce certain effects where as with vaping you could choose to vape that same amount at different temperatures to give you a full range of effects so It could last you three times longer and that would be the same for effects.

That brings me back to your first point about you dont get less high when the abv is darker, I would argue that and say that although you get more sedative properties so might feel more "high" you are infact missing out on that mid range of terpenes and cannabinoids so you actually arent getting as high as you could be.

I hope I'm explaining it how it is in my head because if not you might just think I'm rambling nonsense (which might be the case either way)
 

Drug

Well-Known Member
Okay I see what you mean.

That brings me back to your first point about you dont get less high when the abv is darker, I would argue that and say that although you get more sedative properties so might feel more "high" you are infact missing out on that mid range of terpenes and cannabinoids so you actually arent getting as high as you could be.

Actually I usually start at a low temp and work my way up, sometimes over the course of an hour or more. Those last hits where it's hard to extract even the tiniest clouds just don't seem to affect me. My theory would be that due to the duration of my sessions my level of being under the influence is such that those higher temp hits go unnoticed.
 

invertedisdead

PHASE3
Manufacturer
If you check out the Volcano studies from Leiden University they found the vape had to be set to the highest temperature to produce more cannabinoids than the joint.


lvViBQ5.jpg
 
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Alexis

Well-Known Member
If you check out the Volcano studies from Leiden University they found the vape had to be set to the highest temperature to produce more cannabinoids than the joint.


lvViBQ5.jpg
Did they speculate on the absorbability of those cannabinoids inside the airways I wonder? Because it seems sensible to me that vaporized cannabinoids will have a higher absorption and transference rate.

We all know that vaporizing is substantiall more medicinal than smoking, in both a curative and preventative manner.
 

pakalolo

Toolbag v1.1 (candidate)
Staff member
Does anyone else feel like vaping at lower temps just decreases the effects you get from the same amount of bud?

So much to unpack here.

First, you say "just decreases..." implying that there is no other difference. Since changing the temperature changes the ratio of actives released, there are obviously other effects.

Next, you are asking a question about something that is heavily subjective. If you think that lower temperatures will not be as effective, then they won't be. The pyschoactive experience is strongly influenced by your mental state.

You don't make it clear whether you are referring to staying at one low temperature or using temperature stepping. If the former, then of course you will not get the full effects of the actives that require higher temperatures to release. You'll get some because the actual release is not binary, so at lower temperatures some high temperature components are released, just in much lower quantity.

If you step up, then you will eventually release all of the active components but you will have changed the ratios. The effects will therefore be different because various cannabinioids, terpenes, etc. interact and mitigate each other. Whether the overall effect is decreased is, as I already pointed out, subjective. I don't feel that there's a decrease but that's just me.

Finally, a point about combustion: burning not only destroys some of the active components, it also releases combustion by-products. Probably the most significant of these is carbon monoxide, which causes slight giddiness among other much worse things. Smokers who complain that vaping doesn't give them the same high are missing this, and confuse cannabis effects with combustion effects.
 

m0sh

Singer Song Writer Stoner
So much to unpack here.

First, you say "just decreases..." implying that there is no other difference. Since changing the temperature changes the ratio of actives released, there are obviously other effects.

Next, you are asking a question about something that is heavily subjective. If you think that lower temperatures will not be as effective, then they won't be. The pyschoactive experience is strongly influenced by your mental state.

You don't make it clear whether you are referring to staying at one low temperature or using temperature stepping. If the former, then of course you will not get the full effects of the actives that require higher temperatures to release. You'll get some because the actual release is not binary, so at lower temperatures some high temperature components are released, just in much lower quantity.

If you step up, then you will eventually release all of the active components but you will have changed the ratios. The effects will therefore be different because various cannabinioids, terpenes, etc. interact and mitigate each other. Whether the overall effect is decreased is, as I already pointed out, subjective. I don't feel that there's a decrease but that's just me.

Finally, a point about combustion: burning not only destroys some of the active components, it also releases combustion by-products. Probably the most significant of these is carbon monoxide, which causes slight giddiness among other much worse things. Smokers who complain that vaping doesn't give them the same high are missing this, and confuse cannabis effects with combustion effects.

Spot on mate!
And the last paragraph is a thing I tell people all the time.
My best friend combusts weed with tobacco and will probably never make the change.
So many people here smoke with tobacco and are certain vaping does shit.
 
m0sh,
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Alexis

Well-Known Member
So much to unpack here.

First, you say "just decreases..." implying that there is no other difference. Since changing the temperature changes the ratio of actives released, there are obviously other effects.

Next, you are asking a question about something that is heavily subjective. If you think that lower temperatures will not be as effective, then they won't be. The pyschoactive experience is strongly influenced by your mental state.

You don't make it clear whether you are referring to staying at one low temperature or using temperature stepping. If the former, then of course you will not get the full effects of the actives that require higher temperatures to release. You'll get some because the actual release is not binary, so at lower temperatures some high temperature components are released, just in much lower quantity.

If you step up, then you will eventually release all of the active components but you will have changed the ratios. The effects will therefore be different because various cannabinioids, terpenes, etc. interact and mitigate each other. Whether the overall effect is decreased is, as I already pointed out, subjective. I don't feel that there's a decrease but that's just me.

Finally, a point about combustion: burning not only destroys some of the active components, it also releases combustion by-products. Probably the most significant of these is carbon monoxide, which causes slight giddiness among other much worse things. Smokers who complain that vaping doesn't give them the same high are missing this, and confuse cannabis effects with combustion effects.
I also might suggest that after a sufficient and full absence of actual smoke, maybe self repaired lungs make vaporized cannabinoid absorption more efficient.

Just a postulation though.
 

EverythingsHazy

Well-Known Member
Yeah, up to a certain point it does. But I don't get less high when the abv is already pretty darkish brown as I do when it's darker brown.
Do you think that this may be due to the fact that you are still extracting a similar amount of cannabinoids, prior to the hits which continue to darken the AVB? I wouldn't be surprised, because after the first few hits, whe you are just getting wispy vapor, the AVB still darkens. but you get a smaller dose with each successive hit.

So much to unpack here.

First, you say "just decreases..." implying that there is no other difference. Since changing the temperature changes the ratio of actives released, there are obviously other effects.

Next, you are asking a question about something that is heavily subjective. If you think that lower temperatures will not be as effective, then they won't be. The pyschoactive experience is strongly influenced by your mental state.

You don't make it clear whether you are referring to staying at one low temperature or using temperature stepping. If the former, then of course you will not get the full effects of the actives that require higher temperatures to release. You'll get some because the actual release is not binary, so at lower temperatures some high temperature components are released, just in much lower quantity.

If you step up, then you will eventually release all of the active components but you will have changed the ratios. The effects will therefore be different because various cannabinioids, terpenes, etc. interact and mitigate each other. Whether the overall effect is decreased is, as I already pointed out, subjective. I don't feel that there's a decrease but that's just me.

Finally, a point about combustion: burning not only destroys some of the active components, it also releases combustion by-products. Probably the most significant of these is carbon monoxide, which causes slight giddiness among other much worse things. Smokers who complain that vaping doesn't give them the same high are missing this, and confuse cannabis effects with combustion effects.
Nice, thorough post. I'll clarify each of your paragraphs, in order, for the sake of easy reading.

1. Perhaps, "just" isn't the best term, as I do agree that there would be some cannabinoids that are not released, as well as some that may even be destroyed by higher temps. "Mainly" or "predominantly" would have been better options.

2. It may be subjective, but if a lot of people feel that way, there may be something else to it that's worth looking into, or at least discussing.

3 & 4. I was referring to just vaping at a lower temperature, without stepping up to reach the higher ones. If you step up in the same session, I would imagine you'd get a very similar overall dose of cannabinoids, with some more "terpy" tasting hits at the lower temps.

5. I wasn't even counting combustion, because of the byproducts that are produced, which definitely modify the effects. I agree with your points, here.

Well it depends if you want to be medicated or just get high?
I don't put medicating and getting buzzed in different categories. I consider them to be the same thing, with the difference in this case being how high you get. If a very mild buzz is enough to solve your medical problem, that's excellent. I would still consider it a milder effect, though. It's just that a milder effect is all that may be needed in certain situations.

Consider taking just enough Xanax to get rid of acute anxiety, compared to taking a rather large dose to put yourself in somewhat of a stupor. The first is enough for medical use, and the second is for fun, but the first is still just a weaker effect, due to a lower dose. Weaker isn't necessarily worse.

If you check out the Volcano studies from Leiden University they found the vape had to be set to the highest temperature to produce more cannabinoids than the joint.


lvViBQ5.jpg
This chart makes it seem like 446F/230C may be the best option, since the ratio of cannabinoids to byproducts seems to be better than the others, and the small increase in byproducts may be offset by the ability to get the desired effects while using less overall material.

I also might suggest that after a sufficient and full absence of actual smoke, maybe self repaired lungs make vaporized cannabinoid absorption more efficient.

Just a postulation though.
I wouldn't be surprised. I can imagine tarred up lungs having more trouble functioning at any level, compared to healthy ones.
 
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Alexis

Well-Known Member
I wouldn't be surprised. I can imagine tarred up lungs having more trouble functioning at any level, compared to healthy ones.
I'm thinking also it just came to me- the cillia specifically. Maybe vaporized cannabinoid absorption and transference, depends more than smoke, or at least significantly, upon healthy cillia structure and function?

It suddenly seems so plausible and logical to me.
 
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