Vaporization temperature dependent selection of effects

TommyDee

Vaporitor
I've finally got the vapcap to pour vape out at a rate I haven't experienced in my 6 months of vaping.
My milkshake is finally starting to get soft enough to drink through the straw.
 
TommyDee,
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The higher the temp, the quicker the "cook." You get more vapor in a single draw the higher the temp - hence more cannabinoids per draw. To my mind that explains the difference in effect at different temps. No? If it isn't as simple as that then I need more education. I understand that different cannabinoids and terpenes vaporize at different temps and that explains some of it.
 

TommyDee

Vaporitor
From what I understand is that a high temp from the get-go destroys some of the more delicate molecules. I am somewhat interested in what rate of extraction is optimal.
I can draw real-time on the VC from a very very low temp and the heating is exponential through say 20 seconds. Basically a rapid stepping since I am evacuating the vape as it forms.
 

YaMon

Vaping since 2010
I've been meaning to post to this thread for a long while, apologies if this has been covered. Most of my vaping is with my NewVape FlowerPot with fine grind herb at 747 F. (Aprox 500' above sea Level). My draws are very short, five seconds or under. With this approach I come as close to combustion and combustion effects without crossing that line, at least that is my perception. Sometimes I experience almost like stinging in the back of my throat (depending upon strain/strength/etc), but that goes away as soon as I drink something. I am thinking that is the terpenes, usually only the first or second draw. Subsequent draws there is none of this. I do filter through water in both an ash cacher and a double matrix Perc. Based on the affects versus 700/650/600 degrees, it's my perception that I'm getting something special that only happens with such fast extraction that I have only come close to with a G43. Any thoughts on why this is or what I maybe missing at these temps in this way? I've played at other temps, but never end up there long unless using a portable. *Disclaimer, the temp on the PID of the FlowerPot indicates temperature at the thermocouple of the coil and not that of the air flowing through my herbs.
 

Hippie Dickie

The Herbal Cube
Manufacturer
I am thinking that is the terpenes

i had never considered that, and it makes a lot of sense to me. i think i have noticed the same thing.

While i normally vape at about 400°F these days, i occasionally crank up my heater to 440°F - the vapor is much thicker (of course) and bordering on the edge of combustion (AVB is very dark/black - pyrolysis?) and the high/effect is stronger/more intense - more like smoking a joint. Like on your vape, my PID is measuring the hottest part of the coil, but that temp is present inside the herb within 5 seconds of the start of the draw.

What happens to the terpenes at higher than their vaporization temperature, if the herb chamber is sealed? Do they just hang there in the vial waiting for the inhale, or do they get destroyed and converted into a non-bioactive compound? Taste is better at the lower temp, but i wonder about the entourage effect from the terpenes … doesn't seem to be missing at the higher temp.

just random thoughts during a time of coronavirus.
 

invertedisdead

Weapons of VAS Destruction
What happens to the terpenes at higher than their vaporization temperature, if the herb chamber is sealed? Do they just hang there in the vial waiting for the inhale, or do they get destroyed and converted into a non-bioactive compound?

If you're no longer tasting the terpenes you can taste at lower temps they are being destroyed. JHowever just because they are destroyed or combusted doesn't mean the compound is not bio active, check out this quote from Wiki on tobacco smoke:

"Other possibilities are various neurotransmitter-like psychoactive aromatic amines (amphetamines, indole-based synthetic cannabinoids, ergine-type alkaloids), synthesized randomly by pyrolysis and pyrosynthesis during smoking and found in various plant smoke condensates. Nicotine itself may serve as a template for further psychoactive compounds."

Taste is better at the lower temp, but i wonder about the entourage effect from the terpenes … doesn't seem to be missing at the higher temp.

That's one of the many weak links in the terpenes = entourage effect theory; I've mentioned on here previously how my combustion smoking friends can still tell the difference between "indica" and "sativa" when smoking, which flashes off nearly all of the terpenes.
 

YaMon

Vaping since 2010
That's how much herb in one sitting of 5 seconds? Or multiple draws at 5 seconds?
One NewVape scoop of very fine grind which barely covers the screen, or about 0.1g. I take multiple draws at <=5 seconds at these temps. The reason being if I draw longer it will combust.

@Hippie Dickie once the heat is removed I exhale and then finish what is left in my bubbler. I’m guessing some of the vapor condenses on the inside of my glass or condenses into the water in my ash catcher and bubbler. As an old school combuster I wretch at the thought of consuming old bong water, but vapes place an interesting twist on that. While I’ve not gone there yet, I may have to experiment with some fresh RO bong water after a couple of bowls.. just sayin.. Maybe all talk as I’ve had this idea for six months.. lol
 

invertedisdead

Weapons of VAS Destruction
One NewVape scoop of very fine grind which barely covers the screen, or about 0.1g. I take multiple draws at <=5 seconds at these temps. The reason being if I draw longer it will combust.

@Hippie Dickie once the heat is removed I exhale and then finish what is left in my bubbler. I’m guessing some of the vapor condenses on the inside of my glass or condenses into the water in my ash catcher and bubbler. As an old school combuster I wretch at the thought of consuming old bong water, but vapes place an interesting twist on that. While I’ve not gone there yet, I may have to experiment with some fresh RO bong water after a couple of bowls.. just sayin.. Maybe all talk as I’ve had this idea for six months.. lol

THC isn't water soluble but potentially some other minor goodies are? Realistically it might be better for you than any energy drink you can buy! :D

Obviously a few terpenes or flavinoids are water soluble since the water will take on some flavor after a vaping session. They note the same when making water hash; the water will take on a scent but its always minor due to solubility differences.

Water most definitely forces condensation sooner than a dry pipe but I have mixed feelings as I don't find there to be total absolutes. For example, I don't always find that the lowest temps possible always provides the best tasting vapor and I always don't find that a dry pipe always produces the best tasting vapor possible. On the contrary sometimes I do think flavor is better with water, as I can inhale a larger amount of vapor/terpenes per inhalation which gives the perception of more flavor. I also sometimes find really low temp vaping dilutes the flavor instead of showcasing the full spectrum of taste.
 

RustyOldNail

SEARCH for the treasure...
One NewVape scoop of very fine grind which barely covers the screen, or about 0.1g. I take multiple draws at <=5 seconds at these temps. The reason being if I draw longer it will combust.

@Hippie Dickie once the heat is removed I exhale and then finish what is left in my bubbler. I’m guessing some of the vapor condenses on the inside of my glass or condenses into the water in my ash catcher and bubbler. As an old school combuster I wretch at the thought of consuming old bong water, but vapes place an interesting twist on that. While I’ve not gone there yet, I may have to experiment with some fresh RO bong water after a couple of bowls.. just sayin.. Maybe all talk as I’ve had this idea for six months.. lol

Interesting, I’m going to try a higher PID temp for my WeedEater. Just to see, and feel. Been running at 600f, same .1 dosage in NV scoop, BCG fine grind.
 
RustyOldNail,

YaMon

Vaping since 2010
Interesting, I’m going to try a higher PID temp for my WeedEater. Just to see, and feel. Been running at 600f, same .1 dosage in NV scoop, BCG fine grind.
I’ve tried BCG fine grind and have found the NewVape fine grinder does a better fine grind than the BCG.. as much as I like my BCG.. it’s is what is.
 

TommyDee

Vaporitor
Finish grinder = kitchen strainer

shopping


Don't knock 'till you try it.

@YaMon - you were asking if something special happens at these temps. I find that there are thermal 'zones' when caping a VC in real time. There are two moments when a huge release happens. There is a third but that is at the edge of combustion. I want to think it is something mechanical in the biology. A rupturing of sorts that releases a large load at a specific temperature.

@invertedisdead - interesting take on sub-low temp extraction. There is a lot of 'boring' involved. More like 'anticipation' because the first wave is thick and wet with flavor.
 
TommyDee,
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invertedisdead

Weapons of VAS Destruction
@YaMon - you were asking if something special happens at these temps. I find that there are thermal 'zones' when caping a VC in real time. There are two moments when a huge release happens. There is a third but that is at the edge of combustion. I want to think it is something mechanical in the biology. A rupturing of sorts that releases a large load at a specific temperature.

Vapor pressure roughly doubles for every 10C increase, the larger the vapor pressure the greater the tendency to escape the phase :science:
 

YaMon

Vaping since 2010
Finish grinder = kitchen strainer

shopping


Don't knock 'till you try it.

@YaMon - you were asking if something special happens at these temps. I find that there are thermal 'zones' when caping a VC in real time. There are two moments when a huge release happens. There is a third but that is at the edge of combustion. I want to think it is something mechanical in the biology. A rupturing of sorts that releases a large load at a specific temperature.

@invertedisdead - interesting take on sub-low temp extraction. There is a lot of 'boring' involved. More like 'anticipation' because the first wave is thick and wet with flavor.
My NewVape fine grinder is perfect for these high temps and this misses would kill me if I messed with her strainers!
 

C No Ego

Well-Known Member
If you're no longer tasting the terpenes you can taste at lower temps they are being destroyed. JHowever just because they are destroyed or combusted doesn't mean the compound is not bio active, check out this quote from Wiki on tobacco smoke:

"Other possibilities are various neurotransmitter-like psychoactive aromatic amines (amphetamines, indole-based synthetic cannabinoids, ergine-type alkaloids), synthesized randomly by pyrolysis and pyrosynthesis during smoking and found in various plant smoke condensates. Nicotine itself may serve as a template for further psychoactive compounds."



That's one of the many weak links in the terpenes = entourage effect theory; I've mentioned on here previously how my combustion smoking friends can still tell the difference between "indica" and "sativa" when smoking, which flashes off nearly all of the terpenes.

smoking too provides those acidic form phytocananbinoids @ beginning of smoke session just like vaping ... the smoke clouds the sesquiterpene/monoterpene flavors though after a few hits but they are still in there as the whole thing is smoked down . and the cinder or heat cherry is the vaporizer in that way of administration ... a dirty Ass sooty Vaporizer
 

Cervical CBD

Well-Known Member
I have this strain of hemp flower that does not vape well at any temp. I tried a small bowl, medium size, and big bowl at several different temps and get maybe 2 good hits. The bowl is still green and light brown but I can’t draw anything else. Is it too moist and sticky? It’s “top “ shelf CBD flower.
 
Cervical CBD,

shopdognyc

Well-Known Member
I was thinking of this, and the microdosing threads.

Going to vaping style, do you guys change when you want to have a "beer," versus a whole bottle of whiskey? Or is it all or nothing?
 
shopdognyc,
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