Vaporization temperature dependent selection of effects

[stickstones]

You go too fast maybe. If I only take 1-2 hits every 20 minutes, which is my usual style, I find that the difference is noticeable.

That's probably it. With family around I usually go pretty quickly. In a couple of years when the house is empty I will give your style a long range test! I really look forward to being able to just hit it whenever and wherever I want in a more relaxed fashion.

 

[skayleef]

Not really. Water's vapourization point is so low that any moisture is gone by the time you reach cannabis vapourization temperature. Even the low temp flavour-chasers like me will be at least 60°C (140°F) over the boiling point for H2O. Damp material increases the initial energy needed to get started but dries out quickly.

I am pretty sure h2O boiling point is 100 C. Like that's the whole bonus or the celcius system is that at 0 water freezes and 100 water is vapor . From 1-99 you got liquid , with both ice and liquid at lower and vapor and liquid at the higher end[/QUOTE]

 

[Vapor_Eyes]

I believe they were trying to say that even flavor chasers will be 60°C (140°F) above the boiling point of water, which would be 160°C/320°F.

However, that is technically only 108°F more than the boiling point, not 140°F. That's because the Celsius to Fahrenheit conversion is not linear like most metric to imperial conversions.

Of course the boiling point of water is only 100°C/212°F if you are vaping at sea level.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

Fahrenheit conversion is not linear like most metric to imperial conversions.

Sure it is (linear relationship): [°F] = [°C] × 9⁄5 + 32

also, in addition to reaching the boiling point, more heat energy is required to create the vapor - the heat of vaporization, like another 130 calories (don't make me look it up) per gram of water.

 

[ntaylor]

I believe they were trying to say that even flavor chasers will be 60°C (140°F) above the boiling point of water, which would be 160°C/320°F.

However, that is technically only 108°F more than the boiling point, not 140°F. That's because the Celsius to Fahrenheit conversion is not linear like most metric to imperial conversions.

Of course the boiling point of water is only 100°C/212°F if you are vaping at sea level.

The entire world, except the U.S., embraces the metric system because it is so much easier to understand and use. As vapers, we are on the cutting edge of cannabis consumption ... how about we stop using the antiquated Fahrenheit system to measure the temps of our vaporizing systems and struggle our way into the twenty-first century.

For those of us who are U.S. educated, here's how it works:
As @Vapor_Eyes said, the boiling point of water is 100°C/212°F and the freezing point is 0°C/32°F.

If you slept through 6th grade, here's how to convert degrees Fahrenheit to degrees Celsius:
°C = (°F - 32) x 5/9

Here are some "standard" vaporizer temperatures:
185°C = 365°F
190°C = 374°F
195°C = 384°F
200°C = 392°F
210°C = 410°F

Put your vaporizer on Celsius, please .... so that we will all have a common language!

 

[Hippie Dickie]

how about we stop using the antiquated Fahrenheit system

my problem with this suggestion, is that F has more resolution (being a smaller unit), which is more appealing to my engineering predilections, and allows much more accurate temperature dependent effect selection. (j/k)

 

[Vapor_Eyes]

Sure it is (linear relationship): [°F] = [°C] × 9⁄5 + 32

The conversion formula is a linear equation (F(c)=aC+b), but the temperatures do not form a linear map (F(C1+C2)≠F(C1)+F(C2)).

In layman's terms, the Celsius and Fahrenheit scales rise at different rates (the lines are not parallel):

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_equation

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_map

Edit: accidentally posted too soon

 

[pakalolo]

I am pretty sure h2O boiling point is 100 C. Like that's the whole bonus or the celcius system is that at 0 water freezes and 100 water is vapor . From 1-99 you got liquid , with both ice and liquid at lower and vapor and liquid at the higher end

I believe they were trying to say that even flavor chasers will be 60°C (140°F) above the boiling point of water, which would be 160°C/320°F.

However, that is technically only 108°F more than the boiling point, not 140°F. That's because the Celsius to Fahrenheit conversion is not linear like most metric to imperial conversions.

Of course the boiling point of water is only 100°C/212°F if you are vaping at sea level.

My mistake. 60 Celsius degrees is 140 Fahrenheit degrees if you are measuring temperature. I should have been measuring the temperature difference, which is 108°F as you point out.

 

[ntaylor]

my problem with this suggestion, is that F has more resolution (being a smaller unit), which is more appealing to my engineering predilections, and allows much more accurate temperature dependent effect selection. (j/k)

Same reasoning is valid for using mph instead of kph!
(but the stoners don't care)

 

[Vapor_Eyes]

my problem with this suggestion, is that F has more resolution (being a smaller unit), which is more appealing to my engineering predilections, and allows much more accurate temperature dependent effect selection. (j/k)

I agree. That's why I like to measure vaporizing temps in Fahrenheit and weigh my cannabis in grams.

 

[MinnBobber]

I agree. That's why I like to measure vaporizing temps in Fahrenheit and weigh my cannabis in grams.

.................................................................

X2.
-- Vapes temps in F for more resolution like @Hippie Dickie says and
-- weigh cannabis in grams as that works much better for our small amounts

Oh, and F for vaping cuz I'm not sure I'd ever be mentally converted to think C when I'm buzzed ???
So, what's C for 380 , 400, 420 F again??????

 

[pakalolo]

I agree. That's why I like to measure vaporizing temps in Fahrenheit and weigh my cannabis in grams.

Anyone who believes that you need precision in measuring your vapourizing temperature hasn't been paying attention to what I've been saying.

 

[ntaylor]

Anyone who believes that you need precision in measuring your vapourizing temperature hasn't been paying attention to what I've been saying.

LMAO
​

You're talking about stoners who know the answers because they saw it on the internet!

 

[Vapor_Eyes]

Anyone who believes that you need precision in measuring your vapourizing temperature hasn't been paying attention to what I've been saying.

I never said I needed precision, I just meant that in general I prefer measurements with more resolution/smaller units.

I completely understand the nature of how actives are gradually released up till the boiling point. And right now I don't even have a vaporizer that I can set a precise temp with.

 

[Vapor_Eyes]

Going back to the point @pakalolo was making, you do not need precise temperature control to achieve your desired effects.

My primary vape is an E-Nano so I never even know what temp I'm on. However, I know if I keep it below a certain number on the temp dial I'll avoid sedation for the most part. Or I might need a temp above a certain point to deal with pain. I don't need to know the exact temp or position on the dial, I just need to know a ballpark. Having experience with your vaporizer of choice will help to figure out this ballpark temp range.

This is important because no matter what vaporizer you are using, it is almost impossible to know the exact temp you are vaping at. And even if you could know your exact temp, because of the way the active compounds are released, you don't need to know and if you're shooting for 350°F you won't have drastically different results at 348° or 352°.

The way I look at temperature dependent effects is zones. I shoot for temp ranges 345-355°F, 375-385°F, and 405-415°F. So a low zone, mid zone, and high zone. These zones all have clearly different effects.

 

[nicelytoasted]

Actually, I would argue that you do need precision temperature control in some cases, to achieve desired effects. It's the temperature accuracy that doesn't need to be as spot on, imo.

Accuracy is how close your measurements are to the real value, while precision is the repeatability of those measurements.

For our medical users, the repeatability of the temperature to as close as possible could be of value, and serve as a reference point in trying to relieve certain conditions and symptoms, with certain strains. Getting similar ratios of cannabinoids and terpenes could help to find their individual 'sweet spots'.

I agree, it doesn't need to be exact in either accuracy or precision, as we are dealing with ballpark temperatures, and temperature ranges, as has been stated above.

 

[Vapor_Eyes]

Actually, I would argue that you do need precision temperature control in some cases, to achieve desired effects. It's the temperature accuracy that doesn't need to be as spot on, imo.

Accuracy is how close your measurements are to the real value, while precision is the repeatability of those measurements.

For our medical users, the repeatability of the temperature to as close as possible could be of value, and serve as a reference point in trying to relieve certain conditions and symptoms, with certain strains. Getting similar ratios of cannabinoids and terpenes could help to find their individual 'sweet spots'.

I agree, it doesn't need to be exact in either accuracy or precision, as we are dealing with ballpark temperatures, and temperature ranges, as has been stated above.

Good point, I misspoke and should have used the term accuracy. Precision is much more important than accuracy when it comes to producing desired effects, and is the aspect I meant to emphasize. I tend to mix those terms up, I forgot to check before I posted.

I agree that repeatability and consistency are more important than accuracy to some arbitrary number.

 

[pakalolo]

For our medical users, the repeatability of the temperature to as close as possible could be of value, and serve as a reference point in trying to relieve certain conditions and symptoms, with certain strains. Getting similar ratios of cannabinoids and terpenes could help to find their individual 'sweet spots'.

Except, of course, that the differences in strains and even harvests of the same strain have enough variation to make the "precision" a ballpark anyway. Precision isn't necessary, but accurate repeatability is helpful.

 

[Vapor_Eyes]

Except, of course, that the differences in strains and even harvests of the same strain have enough variation to make the "precision" a ballpark anyway. Precision isn't necessary, but accurate repeatability is helpful.

I fear I'm being too pedantic, but you may have the meaning of the two terms reversed. I made the same mistake a few posts ago. Accuracy relates to the ability to hit a given target, and precision refers to being able to consistently repeat the results.

In vaping terms, an inaccurate yet precise vaporizer might read 395°F when the actual temp is 365°F. But it would always be within the range of 360-370. An accurate yet imprecise vape might read 365°F with a temp range of 350-380.

In that case the precise vaporizer would be better for achieving specific effects than the accurate vaporizer.

 

[pakalolo]

I fear I'm being too pedantic, but you may have the meaning of the two terms reversed. I made the same mistake a few posts ago. Accuracy relates to the ability to hit a given target, and precision refers to being able to consistently repeat the results.

In vaping terms, an inaccurate yet precise vaporizer might read 395°F when the actual temp is 365°F. But it would always be within the range of 360-370. An accurate yet imprecise vape might read 365°F with a temp range of 350-380.

In that case the precise vaporizer would be better for achieving specific effects than the accurate vaporizer.

I understand the difference, but repeatability is the goal. If the target is reproduction of effects (given the same sample) then hitting that is all that is required. Precision doesn't help.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

but repeatability is the goal

i agree totally ... also, stability: i don't want my vape temp to move more than 1°F during a session - either during a draw - fast or slow - or not.

 

[MinnBobber]

I understand the difference, but repeatability is the goal. If the target is reproduction of effects (given the same sample) then hitting that is all that is required. Precision doesn't help.

..............................................
I prefer both accuracy and precision so I can switch vapes and get the same results. I know that my miniVAP green temp is 415 F so it's easy to repeat those desired results on Herbie, set to 415 F.

With enough experimentation, you could probably dial in two vapes that have no temp settings (just analog dials) to where you'd know what's equal but I'd prefer not to.

Being accurate and precise also allows me to switch mid-session which I often do. I'll go up the ladder on the miniVAP (375, 395, 415) and then switch the basket to Herbie and I'll know exactly where I'm at.

Are precise and accurate temps necessary? No.
Do I find them very helpful? Yes

 

[pakalolo]

..............................................
I prefer both accuracy and precision so I can switch vapes and get the same results. I know that my miniVAP green temp is 415 F so it's easy to repeat those desired results on Herbie, set to 415 F.

With enough experimentation, you could probably dial in two vapes that have no temp settings (just analog dials) to where you'd know what's equal but I'd prefer not to.

Being accurate and precise also allows me to switch mid-session which I often do. I'll go up the ladder on the miniVAP (375, 395, 415) and then switch the basket to Herbie and I'll know exactly where I'm at.

Are precise and accurate temps necessary? No.
Do I find them very helpful? Yes

Edit: To clarify, this post was not intended to offend. It was an expression of frustration since I have repeatedly explained why this doesn't work. Vapourizing temperature x on vape a is temperature x on vape b only if there is an astounding coincidence. They might be close, but they won't be the same.

 

[Vapor_Eyes]

However a person uses the tools at their disposal to accomplish a given task is always a win. If using a specific temperature setting, like 415 F, on one vape and moving to another vape at the same temp does not mean the extraction effects are duplicated. The use of a specific temp setting (415 F) makes it more simple to have a repeatable accurate experience for the particular vape you are using.

Exactly. If using a specific temp helps achieve your desired results more consistently than it will help you to achieve specific effects.

It's not as if hitting the exact temp 415°F (or any other arbitrary number) magically extracts the perfect mix of active compounds desired. It's that always setting a precise, accurate vape to 415°F will always produce similar results.

I just started vaping. The only vaporizer I own with temperature control is an E-Nano. So I learned without having any idea what my actual temps were, I had to go on results alone.

Thanks to this thread and forum I had a great resource to help dial in the exact effects desired. With a little common sense and experimentation I was able to find the temperature ranges that worked best for me.

 

[Vape-Nation]

I agree with many of the comments here, it's more art than science when it comes to actual use with your own vaporizers and cannabis. But trying to find real data and after spending a lot of time researching this topic, including looking at the Steep Hill Labs folks research, I designed this interactive chart to help highlight temperature ranges and effects based on cannabinoid boiling point temperatures:

I've found this chart very helpful for example when i'm using the Herbalizer, which is extremely reliable and consistent in temp output. Or even the Mighty, not so much the crafty which swings in temperature a lot more.