Vaping thru a bong with water and without. Unsuspected differences.

[MinnBobber]

Particulates are the Achilles heel of vaporising.

Vaping is an ace way to remove the surface oils from the Herb but, when you think about it, whip vapes also create a superb way to sieve the smallest particles out of plant matter.
Drawing hot air over and through plant material that is held by a sieve like screen, causes the material to shrink and crumble. Add a couple of stirs into the equation and you've just got yourself a cracking way of removing the smallest of the particles from the material and placing it directly in your lungs.

I double screen the SSV and still see tiny bits and bobs in the water.

Honestly, regularly taking small amounts of dried plant straight into your lungs will have an impact on your health at some point.

Smoking is poison compared to vaporising but, been that electronic vaping is still in its infancy (20 or 30 years?) and changing and improving constantly, I honestly don't think the present SS screen method is perfect either. Add water though...

edit

Adding moisture is a good second factor. I can hit longer and go far deeper using water.

I get serious cotton mouth and find swallowing hurts eventually (haha).

........................................................................................................
X2 @smokeberry
Particulates from vaping tend to be different from smoke particulates. Using a magnifying glass and looking at my glass bubbler and hydratube reclaim (vapor film on the glass), it was loaded with tiny particulate matter (tiny tiny herb pieces).
These tiny pieces are there if you use nugs and then stir OR if you grind and pour int your bowl.
I've been experimenting with a thin hemp fiber filter which filters out most of the particulate and a tiny amount of vapor might also be caught----all to be vaped later from the hemp fiber.
Picture of my setup, miniVAP Flexicone, hemp filter, wire basket. I now use a much thinner piece of fiber for less restriction.

Filter collects particulate. Glass goes 5X longer between cleaning AND the reclaim is almost all clear oil instead of oil plus a lot of tiny herbage.

IMO, a low diffusion water piece with a low level of water takes out very little THC/goodies.
Even less comes out if you use warm or hot water----cooling vapor condenses vapor.
My goal is to MOISTURIZE the vapor, not to cool it.

Smoked cannabis starts at 1000 F plus so it needs cooling. Vaped cannabis starts at well below half that temp so cooling is not the top need. Vaped cannabis is VERY dry so moisturizing is top priority for me.

Just my experience.
A bag with all that cool surface area condenses a lot and does nothing to add moisture, so I never use Herbie bag system.

 

[kellya86]

I worried alot about particles in the beggining...

After reading many scholarly articles and medical papers, it's clear to me that the human respiratory system is amazing and very effective at filtering out particulate matter...

Studies of coal miners is fascinating...

@MinnBobber I am trying to achieve moisture by creating water vapour in a seperate vape and mixing with the herb vapour just before the mouthpiece...
Im concerned with condensation in the water...

Im concerned with condensation in the water...

............................................................
Is your concern that you might me losing THC/goodies in the water??

My theory is that THC loss thru water is almost negligible, especially with hot water.
-Oil vapor and water don't mix.
-Cooling vapor condenses some of it out, so cold/cool water would condense some
-Even hot tap water is much warmer than vapor (let's say 120 F)
-A temp of 130 F will scald skin so vapor can't be near that temp.
-Vapor is not hot, it is very very very dry
-Hot water in a bubbler/HT is hotter than the vapor so the water takes out virtually nothing. You could say it keeps it up to temp/ keeps it from cooling and condensing???

I'll just venture a fact based guess (vapor and condensation facts) that a water piece with hot water delivers more THC than a system of mixing herb vapor and water vapor just before a mouthpiece----that the tube/whip/glass that delivers the cannabis vapor for mixing, condenses out more goodies than a warm water water piece.

Interesting discussion and I wish someone had a nice lab to experiment.......

This is just an idea at the moment, I'm not saying this is a better way at all, I just like to push the boundaries and see what's possible, and without trying we will never know...

I understand the argument that virtually no actives are lost in hot water, but isn't it inconvenient to keep topping up hot water???

Another factor for me is that I personally think that a bong or bubbler looks a bit more 'druggie' than just the eq.

I don't mind he kids seeing the eq as it's just a big vape, and everyone vapes now.. if there is suddenly fancy glass looking all breaking bad, I worry this looks worse to my kids. Obviously I keep it away from them as much as is possible, I wouldn't want them to go in the bedroom one day when I'd forgot to put stuff away and see a huge bong...

I just feel there must be a more compact method of adding moisture...

 

[whereskarlo]

I have to try this next time I get my hands on a bong!

 

[bigbossgrayfox03]

Ooh, that warm water though! Vapor seems smoother and tastier if that's possible. And much cloudier.

I can't really say just yet about noticing a difference in high but I can say that this looks like my new fav way to VBong. @lwien @OO

(I'll report back on this after a short T break for more accuracy)

 

[Grim Chiclets]

I actually have a crappy little bong with a broken perc in it, and I use it regularly without a downstem by filling it with hot (around 110-120F) water and just having the vapor pass over it- picking up ambient water vapor and depositing [some, probably not all] tiny herb particles in the water

I much prefer it to a dry stem anyway- though I do think some of the terpenes may be water soluble?

 

[Buildozer]

bong with a broken perc in it, and I use it regularly

I had a bong w/ a broken tree that was stuck under some ice pinches, and the perc would rattle around whenever it was moved.. I ended up w/ fine glass dust in my lungs.. When I realized what was causing that accumulation of painful coughing fits and sharp pains in my chest, I tossed the bong.. Over the span of a week or so I coughed it out, which sucked since you could feel it fucking up your chest and throat on it's way out.. some of it made it's way to my stomach, which sucked too, since I felt it traveling through my whole system making sharp pains Anyways, I wouldn't recommend putting your body through something like that if you can help it If you're gonna use it, I'd be really careful not to rattle that perc around.. It wasn't like I was shaking my perc around all the time, but apparently it was still enough... I used that bong for a good while before I noticed too.

 

[Grim Chiclets]

I had a bong w/ a broken tree that was stuck under some ice pinches, and the perc would rattle around whenever it was moved.. I ended up w/ fine glass dust in my lungs.. When I realized what was causing that accumulation of painful coughing fits and sharp pains in my chest, I tossed the bong.. Over the span of a week or so I coughed it out, which sucked since you could feel it fucking up your chest and throat on it's way out.. some of it made it's way to my stomach, which sucked too, since I felt it traveling through my whole system making sharp pains Anyways, I wouldn't recommend putting your body through something like that if you can help it If you're gonna use it, I'd be really careful not to rattle that perc around.. It wasn't like I was shaking my perc around all the time, but apparently it was still enough... I used that bong for a good while before I noticed too.

I actually got the pieces out over 2 years ago haha, made sure to rinse it heavily with hot and cold water, multiple iso cleanings- it definitely pays to be paranoid about that kind of thing

 

[lazylathe]

I switched toa dry WT when using my Lotus.
Noticed a huge difference in flavour and effects!
I get more of a stoney medicated feel now, not the clear headed medicated state.
This is good for before bed!

 

[Tommy10]

I notice flavour slightly more without water, I mostly use water, but only because it's what you do and I like the bubbles!

 

[HellsWindStaff]

Can't find the thread, but it is kind of pertinent to this; been dry dabbing the last day or so out of a J-hook......it's actually pretty smooth and tastes really good. Like....REALLY good

 

[TboneToker]

Can't find the thread, but it is kind of pertinent to this; been dry dabbing the last day or so out of a J-hook......it's actually pretty smooth and tastes really good. Like....REALLY good

Yep you'll get more flavour, but a big dab will wreck you!

 

[herbivore21]

This is just an idea at the moment, I'm not saying this is a better way at all, I just like to push the boundaries and see what's possible, and without trying we will never know...

I understand the argument that virtually no actives are lost in hot water, but isn't it inconvenient to keep topping up hot water???

Another factor for me is that I personally think that a bong or bubbler looks a bit more 'druggie' than just the eq.

I don't mind he kids seeing the eq as it's just a big vape, and everyone vapes now.. if there is suddenly fancy glass looking all breaking bad, I worry this looks worse to my kids. Obviously I keep it away from them as much as is possible, I wouldn't want them to go in the bedroom one day when I'd forgot to put stuff away and see a huge bong...

I just feel there must be a more compact method of adding moisture...

See there is a problem with the idea of all glass being a 'druggie' thing. I concede there is a potential for this association to be made with clear scientific glass rigs that resemble lab glassware. I also concede that simple small clear glass pipes may look like something used with crack or meth.

The problem though, is that glass can in fact be artwork that would never be associated with Breaking Bad or junkies etc. No junkie spends wads and wads of dead presidents on a fragile artwork. My pieces are all fully worked and in one case sandblasted too. I can leave them out in front of my arch-conservative grandmother without concern. They are art in their own rights and even anti-weed friends of mine admire the work when they see it (some while still beating the anti-weed drum nonetheless). This is one major reason I love worked/blasted glass. Anyone can appreciate a beautiful work of art, even if they do not like the function it may be used for.

I had a bong w/ a broken tree that was stuck under some ice pinches, and the perc would rattle around whenever it was moved.. I ended up w/ fine glass dust in my lungs.. When I realized what was causing that accumulation of painful coughing fits and sharp pains in my chest, I tossed the bong.. Over the span of a week or so I coughed it out, which sucked since you could feel it fucking up your chest and throat on it's way out.. some of it made it's way to my stomach, which sucked too, since I felt it traveling through my whole system making sharp pains Anyways, I wouldn't recommend putting your body through something like that if you can help it If you're gonna use it, I'd be really careful not to rattle that perc around.. It wasn't like I was shaking my perc around all the time, but apparently it was still enough... I used that bong for a good while before I noticed too.

Holy shit bro, hope you are much better now! That post made me cringe a few times!

Glad to hear you got to the bottom of what was going on, that would have been even worse had you not picked what was causing the pain and discomfort!

 

[Buildozer]

Holy shit bro, hope you are much better now! That post made me cringe a few times!

Glad to hear you got to the bottom of what was going on, that would have been even worse had you not picked what was causing the pain and discomfort!

I seem to be fine now, but time will tell.... That happened years ago.

 

[kellya86]

I have a d020-d bubbler now....

Don't use it very ofter. Only if I'm high temping hash..

Now that I own a bubbler I can confirm that for me at least, it definitely removed actives from my hit...

I will get higher from the same amount dry, rather than through water...

Iv tested this extensively, I'm sure now.

 

[Scott A]

Really? Leaving vapor in a bag will cause condensation?


Pretty sure there's no moisture in there because someone told me it was really dry. So how there is condensation in a bag is really funny to me.


I also said it was minimal, the lost of thc, you can drink it if you want. Won't be worth it, but go for it.


Like I said, bags will solve your issues. You want concentrated vapors? It's all in a bag for you.

I dont want to come off as a dick but I just cant go with out correcting this. Fill a bag full of vapor and let it sit. You will literally be able to see the oils condense to the side of the bag and stick over time. I really dont think you could be any further off base with your post.

I just think people who think that water does anything to vapor is really funny. Not butthurt at all.



Yeah the particulates that is on your stem, that doesn't get into bags. Which is why I said bags eliminate your problems, air pump vaporizers are incredible efficient at producing vapors without any particulates getting into the bags.


You're not reading what I have to write, what benefit is there from water filtration? None. You guys can do whatever you want though.



This might not be the case with the EQ as it is just a desktop fan. Which is why a Zephyr Ion or Volcano is far superior.

Then why does every used volcano bag I see still have tiny little particles in it?

 

[max]

I dont want to come off as a dick but I just cant go with out correcting this. Fill a bag full of vapor and let it sit. You will literally be able to see the oils condense to the side of the bag and stick over time. I really dont think you could be any further off base with your post.


Then why does every used volcano bag I see still have tiny little particles in it?

I agree with your point, but you're arguing with a member who was banned over 5 years ago.

 

[JJ420]

Vaporbonging is the shit! Been doing it this way with logs on vvps for a couple of years now... the high is exactly how the OP describes it - much more up, CLEAR headed. I love it!

 

[kellya86]

I agree with your point, but you're arguing with a member who was banned over 5 years ago.

I must still be high from last night, I find this immensely funny...

Thanks for the morning chuckle, cheered me right up....

 

[BD9]

I use my water piece as a filter and love it. I've tried ice cold, cold, tepid, and very warm water. Okay, I may have used juice once.. Okay, it was twice. Preference is warm water. Seems to make a nice steamy and smooth vapor. When I used the VaporBros. without a water piece I would get particulates in my mouth and I'm sure my lungs. So adding the bubbler gives me piece of mind even if it is placebo effect.

I haven't paid much attention to the difference in 'highs' when using the bubbler versus no bubbler, but I feel a very unscientific study coming on.

 

[shredder]

Just a couple things. I use both water and dry vapors. With dry I add cotton filtering if I can. This due to asthma and lung issues.

But back to the original question. If you were to put a vacume gauge on a bowl, I think it would pull more vacume on a stem or whip more so than pulling though water.

Hence for the same draw pressure the stem or whip pulls more negative pressure than a water pipe.

Maybe due to the inefficiencies of adding water, and to the vortex like effect of a narrow tube of stems and whips.

Just my theory....

 

[Alex03]

Hey fellow vapers. As a pain Patient suffering from rheumatoid Polyarthritis o can say that I feel the water traps the compounds responsible for pain reduction and sleep.

Dry seems like the best thing. With water it seems like I can hardly reach my Desired state of medication

Any one else?

 

[TboneToker]

Hey fellow vapers. As a pain Patient suffering from rheumatoid Polyarthritis o can say that I feel the water traps the compounds responsible for pain reduction and sleep.

Dry seems like the best thing. With water it seems like I can hardly reach my Desired state of medication

Any one else?

so would a volcano work or does it need to be direct draw

 

[Alex03]

@TboneToker

Well infact i have a volcano and it shurely does the trick

 

[Ron]

Even if the water filters out some goodness from the vapor I still get higher with a bong. The simple reason is that thru water I don't hack and cough. I can consume more thru water. YMMV

 

[daoist]

My ABV comes out pretty much the same color.

Does that pd vaporizer have a digital temperature control? because if it is not digital you can get big temperature variation. Even the first volcano and the mighty vaporizers have these inconsistant issues and could explain inconsistant extraction. Or maybe you just put to much in it, so not enough air goes through the herbs. you really want a digital vaporizer for accurate temperatures.

I prefer the bong with water btw. because without water it is just same as direct draw through a whip but with less flavour. with two percolators in my bong i get a super smooth hit and can hold it in for like 5 secs, untill i really need to exhale as vape starts to escape through my nose.. thats why i like the bong for big hits. for hasj vaping i just fill the balloons on fanspeed 1 and toke on that, so i can enjoy the flavour. plus hasj is more gentle on the throat so i don't really need the water to smooth things out.