Discontinued VapeXhale Cloud

[mvapes]

My unit came with instructions and to be honest I would have to say that I totally understand VXC for a couple of reasons. Although I truly feel terrible for TL and his unfortunate scenario, how does a company (a)decipher weather or not its truly user error and (b)lets be honest, if they do it for him they would need to do the same for ANYONE who has the same issue. I bought a 400 dollar Sheldon Black Piece about a year ago and when I brought it home I literally put it down a bit too hard and the shower head collapsed. Did they replace it? Heck fucking no - user error. For all VXC knows TL is a fucking shill, had directions and didn't pay attention. I'm not in any way accusing him of any of this as I truly don't know the facts but don't you all think the company deserves a fucking chance before these type of allegations are thrown around? People actually joined the forum last night to fight about the remark regarding fraud charges against the credit card company? Really? What are you a fucking litigation attorney for buyers? This site isn't for that and to be honest if that's what you joined for then you may have wasted your time.

I'm not saying VXC is right, nor am I saying that TL is in the right - what I am saying is gather the fucking facts first before we bash anyone. The cloud is a stellar product, is it perfect? Fuck no, but do any come close to it's performance? And last but not least - I am an executive, I run a national company. Am I telling you all this for a pat on the back? No, I could give two shits about that, but - if someone publicly (whether angry at the moment or not)threatened the company that puts food on my table for my kids in any way - you could be damn skippy that I'm calling that person on a Saturday night upset! Think about it, people get upset and say things before they think all the time - TL, you lost alot of money and your about to dump some more to protect your investment - I understand brother - it totally fucking sucks and today I will certainly be thinking of your loss. I suffered lost funds due to my VAS - at least you know your $150 gets you back in the seat of the Ferrari of Vaporizers!

 

[filteredhead]

TL, sorry to read about the damage to your Cloud. Thank you for posting here as one of the benefits is the potential for Cloud users such as myself to take extra care to try and avoid this type of damage altogether. I hope the VapeXhale team works with you to resolve the issue. Glass joint locking has happened to me in a variety of situations and pieces over the years but so far been lucky to have avoided breakage that way.

VXH Team, even if this is not a common enough issue for the Cloud, it may still be worthwhile to add a "Warning" or "Notice" or "Special Attention" section to the manual outlining the risk and extra care needed to avoid the damage. Also, may be good to add that same text to the Vaporpedia VXH Cloud page (http://vaporpedia.com/wiki/VapeXhale)
If this is a common weak part failure or a common user induced failure or a combination of the 2, then maybe thicker glass bamboo part has been considered(?) or planning for a "large" run of such repairs would let VXH offer the repair fix at a lower price point.

 

[sunsett70]

"at least you know your $150 gets you back in the seat of the Ferrari of Vaporizers!"

i have to concur. TL, your $800++ loss sucks but at least you're getting a 'new' cloud for usd150++ fuck, get it and sell it if you hate it so much. that could net you a couple of hundred, couldn't it?

and yes, for a vape forum where people mostly use the good 'erb, sure is a lot of fighting sometimes. half of those muthafackers don't have my excuse (personality disorder and shit), the other half don't know they got a personality disorder. haha.

 

[stonemonkey55]

Always great to wake up on a Sunday morning to some excitement.

@TigerLord - I'll make it real simple, we didn't ship with instructions so we will get you taken care of. End of story. Apologies for the runaround, I myself was not aware that your unit did not ship with instructions so we will make sure that you are done right.

I will say one thing though, our manual (nor any other vape and glass manufacturers that I personally own) does not give specific instructions on glass joint locks. The joints on the Swagger, Evolver, of VXL tubes are all German joints and should have no difference in "locking probability" from each other. There really isn't an approved way IMO to get joints unlocked. The best way is with prevention, which is not to put too much pressure on the glass itself to cause the lock initially. We thought this to be common industry knowledge but we'll be updating the manual with this info shortly. You live and you learn.

RE - "upgrade fee" - One thing I want to make 100% absolutely clear is that no upgrade is necessary. We found a way to fixing the units that had broken glass, extend the auto shutoff, reduce the heat up time, and give them an extra year warranty coverage to boot. We offered this to some folks that had broken glass, or wanted the auto shutoff extended, or wanted an extended warranty. To have this turned back on us as a method to get paid while fix faulty units is just wrong.

Sony and Microsoft consistently make improvements to their consoles. They are not obligated to immediately upgrade anyone with a previous generation machine. The difference with us is, nothing is actually changing in our unit other than a firmware upgrade and few things inserted so that if the glass breaks, it makes it easier to repair. With all the performance benefits along with the EXTENDED WARRANTY (which many people had said they were happy to pay for), we felt that it justified the price we were charging. Again, we didn't put a gun to ANYONE's head, these are all upgrades that people could take or just have their unit repaired for free and returned in the same condition.

Why don't we just upgrade everyone for free? Well, the time it takes to disassemble the unit, reprogram the firmware, insert the new pieces for the glass, re-assemble, test, re-ship, and extend the warranty costs us money. We are happy to take this option away if people will think that makes it more fair. We offered it up to folks that either broke their glass or had some other issue with the heat up time or auto shut off and really thought we were being nice to offer this to them.

We are going to be making some internal changes where things will be much more black and white. My personal feeling is that all the exceptions we've made for forum members has only caused us more problems in that we are perceived as giving some people preferential treatments. Policies will be much more clear from here on out and edge cases will no longer be decided by me but by the policy that has been written. I know this will make some people happy and piss off a lot of other people but it is the only way our company can grow without disputing this, that, and the other when it comes to "returns" and "faulty claims"

 

[Ripbongs420]

The first sentence of the second paragraph of the manual that I received with my Cloud and on their site reads:
Because we use glass as the most critical component of our vaporizer, you will have to take extra caution when using this vaporizer.

 

[b0]

Well, IMHO if you offer an extent warranty, I will be glad to pay 100$ for a more reliable unit.

 

[oldiebutgoodie]

Yea he just got it in November so plenty of warranty. But he will be getting a flawed unit back and not the current model. Unless they are now offering 2 clouds. Normal and reliable. Are they? Lol

They include a non disclosure statement. Not that he agreed to it. And they aren't denying fixing his cloud. It's just the money grab they are going for. It ticks me off because I gave it to him as a gift. Why should my friend have to pay $100 to get his gift in a reliable condition? They actually quote the price of the "upgrade" at $200 but "discount" it to $150. After he declined it they came back with a $100 offer . . . I hope me venting about it doesn't tie up him getting it back but I don't feel good about this.

They have plenty of cheap 300$ old units (Said to have 2% failure rate) for warranties so they needto get these out first. They are not that bad, but 2% is still significant. No info on failure rate of new ones, just vapexhale seems to be very believing in them. Imo if he doesn't want to pay for an upgade, he can just get the old one. 2% is still imo low enough to risk it and probably the performance is same with both generations. It is fair, he wouldn't get any worse unit than he had before. Everyone buying a super new unit should expect an upgade coming and when that happens, you just have the old one.

I don't see the basis for presuming the replacement unit will be "flawed". A unit once refurbished should be in like new working order. Furthermore it is quite common for manufacturers to use refurbished units as warranty replacements. Are new units now coming off the assy line better than the first units? Of course: Every generation of an electronics device, in particular the first, always needs refinements. But that doesn't mean that the earlier units are defective.

It is of note that VXL has been able to stay close to a 2% warranty rate, as re-confirmed by SM this week. There has never been an indication that the average failure rate has significantly varied, although it is to be expected that there will be occasional small spikes. That means that by far most units shipped are still in use.

So as Seek posted, one can stick with an original unit which the numbers indicate has a very high probability of delivering good service or one can purchase an upgrade to obtain the value of whatever refinements have been developed.

I'm surprised that the upgrade offer was even extended, given that there isn't a signed NDA let alone an unwillingness to abide by the terms of the offer.

 

[sunsett70]

@TigerLord - I'll make it real simple, we didn't ship with instructions so we will get you taken care of. End of story.

at times, it's hard not to be a brown noser when i read stuff like that. fucking A.

black and white

they way it should have been from the beginning. and what u said about exceptions, it doesn't mean that when VXL is more stable, you cannot implement a VIP status for us FC members, no?

SM, with the manual, hope that due to the nature of the cloud (best extraction blah blah), u would take into consideration that not just people who have never used glass before would be using it. for elderly medical folks, maybe some have not even used the herb before.

 

[TigerLord]

Thank you all so much everyone for your support both in this thread and for the advice I received in private as well. FC rocks!!!

$125 for duties and taxes to Canada? I've ordered 4 times from VXL including using express shipping and never once had to pay ANY duties or taxes.

The package was marked at 650$ on the CN22 custom form and not marked as a gift, so:
5% GST: 32.50$
9.75% QST: 63.38$
Brokerage: 10$
-----------------------
Total charges at delivery: 105.88$

I'm missing about 20$ so I either misremembered or there was another fee I might have forgotten about.

This is completely standard though and I do not blame VapeXHale, they did what they have to do. Sure, some companies will undervalue their packages or mark them as gift to avoid having their customer pay taxes but it's illegal and if you get caught USPS could shut down your shipper's account.

 

[sunsett70]

I'm missing about 20$ so I either misremembered or there was another fee I might have forgotten about.

or you're a fucking shill.

mod note: You don't get to call anyone a shill. It's name calling, which is always against the rules.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

wow, all of that is great to hear SM. am glad you are taking care of this guy, glad you are offering upgrades for repairs (specially at $100) up and above covering basics under warranty. both make me feel much better about my purchase. thanks for being a pillar of this community

 

[TigerLord]

Shill for who?

 

[vorrange]

I will say one thing though, our manual (nor any other vape and glass manufacturers that I personally own) does not give specific instructions on glass joint locks. The joints on the Swagger, Evolver, of VXL tubes are all German joints and should have no difference in "locking probability" from each other. There really isn't an approved way IMO to get joints unlocked. The best way is with prevention, which is not to put too much pressure on the glass itself to cause the lock initially. We thought this to be common industry knowledge but we'll be updating the manual with this info shortly. You live and you learn.

When you buy a glass piece like a bong, i understand that people should in fact be more aware about the in's and out's and the potential damage that can be done with improper handling.

But the Cloud is a vaporizer with a gong piece (people don't have to know that this gong piece has this particular problem sometimes, or that the Cloud has this piece. ) that costs a lot to replace, we are not talking 20$ or 30$, so i believe it is in the best interest of VXL to ship with instructions with added emphasys on this.

And when this in fact happens, imo the company should realize that this is a design that will make this a liability, wether someone is carefull or not, and act accordingly.

I still think you guys are a great company and i think that minimizing the "special treatment" is beneficial but i also think that sometimes there should be some leeway.

I look forward for the next Cloud versions and improvements and to see VXL grow as a company. None of what i said was meant as an atack but rather as a concern of a potential user of this fine vaporizer.

 

[jackmormon]

I know this sucks for Tigerlord, but I am pretty positive SM & crew will take care of him.

The positive out of this is the news on Cloud improvements and the fact that VXL can now repair Clouds which was the missing piece of their product & service arsenal, IMO.

Kudos to VXL and thanks SM for letting us know that improved units are available and the possibility of repairs!!!

My ticker has been rocking hard since May 7th of 2012. On May 7th of 2013 I will place an order for my backup unit

 

[FrankG]

People actually joined the forum last night to fight about the remark regarding fraud charges against the credit card company? Really? What are you a fucking litigation attorney for buyers? This site isn't for that and to be honest if that's what you joined for then you may have wasted your time.

Or maybe, JUST MAYBE, the person was disconcerted at the lack of knowledge on basic consumer protection and obligations of a merchant, and that person wanted to help the OP with his predicament. Could be as simple as that. But you jumped on the paranoia lawyer bandwagon right away. What's wrong with helping a consumer get the help he is already entitled to if he doesn't know those options exist?

The responsibility of this site, and that of all vapers, is to protect each other. Merchants operate on a single notion and that is profit. Profit guides all other actions and decisions. Saving face in this PR disaster is necessary so they may continue to prosper, learn how to properly build a presentation, ameliorate the design of their Cloud and live on to supply vapers in the future. They don't replace things to be nice and they certainly won't be helping out the OP out of their goodness of their heart after all that has transpired here.

Thankfully SM pulled through and it matters. It's certainly not all that does. There's a lot of work ahead for them.

 

[mvapes]

Or maybe, JUST MAYBE, the person was disconcerted at the lack of knowledge on basic consumer protection and obligations of a merchant, and that person wanted to help the OP with his predicament. Could be as simple as that. But you jumped on the paranoia lawyer bandwagon right away. What's wrong with helping a consumer get the help he is already entitled to if he doesn't know those options exist?

The responsibility of this site, and that of all vapers, is to protect each other. Merchants operate on a single notion and that is profit. Profit guides all other actions and decisions. Saving face in this PR disaster is necessary so they may continue to prosper, learn how to properly build a presentation, ameliorate the design of their Cloud and live on to supply vapers in the future. They don't replace things to be nice and they certainly won't be helping out the OP out of their goodness of their heart after all that has transpired here.

Thankfully SM pulled through and it matters. It's certainly not all that does. There's a lot of work ahead for them.

I would hardly say that I "jumped on the paranoia lawyer bandwagon - it was a comment not a fucking accusation - nor is it the sites responsibility to protect vaporists. This is a forum, simply a place to voice your concerns and share knowledge about other products. If it was the sites responsibility to manage each sale on here they would allow manufacturers to sell products directly through the forum.

 

[VaporEyes]

So, it is to my understanding that VXL will possibly be releasing a VXC 2.0 in the near future. Should I hold off on ordering until the release of that?

Edit: I have been informed that my assumption is incorrect. What was that saying about assumptions again.. oh yeah, it makes an ass out of you and me .

 

[CentiZen]

disassemble the unit, reprogram the firmware, insert the new pieces for the glass, re-assemble, test, re-ship, and extend the warranty costs us money. We are happy to take this option away if people will think that makes it more fair.

And is this operation available to all previous generations of the cloud? I've got one that has a serial of 256 and if that is upgrade-able to the latest design with a new warranty then I would be interested in doing this

 

[oldiebutgoodie]

And is this operation available to all previous generations of the cloud? I've got one that has a serial of 256 and if that is upgrade-able to the latest design with a new warranty then I would be interested in doing this

The serial number does not correlate to the age of the unit. Nonetheless that's academic; this is not an upgrade to the unit you have, it is a new unit altogether.

Btw, "generation" typically refers to more fundamental change. There has only been one Cloud generation. The "improvements" SM describes, in industry parlance "revisions", are corrective actions and enhancements which do not rise to the level of an actual new generation. The distinction is important.

 

[Venomous]

Always great to wake up on a Sunday morning to some excitement.

@TigerLord - I'll make it real simple, we didn't ship with instructions so we will get you taken care of. End of story. Apologies for the runaround, I myself was not aware that your unit did not ship with instructions so we will make sure that you are done right.

I will say one thing though, our manual (nor any other vape and glass manufacturers that I personally own) does not give specific instructions on glass joint locks. The joints on the Swagger, Evolver, of VXL tubes are all German joints and should have no difference in "locking probability" from each other. There really isn't an approved way IMO to get joints unlocked. The best way is with prevention, which is not to put too much pressure on the glass itself to cause the lock initially. We thought this to be common industry knowledge but we'll be updating the manual with this info shortly. You live and you learn.

RE - "upgrade fee" - One thing I want to make 100% absolutely clear is that no upgrade is necessary. We found a way to fixing the units that had broken glass, extend the auto shutoff, reduce the heat up time, and give them an extra year warranty coverage to boot. We offered this to some folks that had broken glass, or wanted the auto shutoff extended, or wanted an extended warranty. To have this turned back on us as a method to get paid while fix faulty units is just wrong.

Sony and Microsoft consistently make improvements to their consoles. They are not obligated to immediately upgrade anyone with a previous generation machine. The difference with us is, nothing is actually changing in our unit other than a firmware upgrade and few things inserted so that if the glass breaks, it makes it easier to repair. With all the performance benefits along with the EXTENDED WARRANTY (which many people had said they were happy to pay for), we felt that it justified the price we were charging. Again, we didn't put a gun to ANYONE's head, these are all upgrades that people could take or just have their unit repaired for free and returned in the same condition.

Why don't we just upgrade everyone for free? Well, the time it takes to disassemble the unit, reprogram the firmware, insert the new pieces for the glass, re-assemble, test, re-ship, and extend the warranty costs us money. We are happy to take this option away if people will think that makes it more fair. We offered it up to folks that either broke their glass or had some other issue with the heat up time or auto shut off and really thought we were being nice to offer this to them.

We are going to be making some internal changes where things will be much more black and white. My personal feeling is that all the exceptions we've made for forum members has only caused us more problems in that we are perceived as giving some people preferential treatments. Policies will be much more clear from here on out and edge cases will no longer be decided by me but by the policy that has been written. I know this will make some people happy and piss off a lot of other people but it is the only way our company can grow without disputing this, that, and the other when it comes to "returns" and "faulty claims"

Have you ever considered making firmware upgrades possible from an owners standpoint? Meaning, as improvement come down, a user can apply them...just like on computer motherboards..? The way I see it, it appears that this upgrade program seems to be a nickel and dime approach. I've never owned an electronic product that required me to pay an upgrade fee for updating firmware (Samsung tv's, Yamaha AVRs, bluray players, etc all allow end user firmware upgrades.)

Sony may make improvements to their hardware as CPU/GPU yields improve... However, Sony allows firmware upgrades on a constant basis... Without charging an upgrade fee.

VXL has been catching some heat lately because of its failures. Bad reputation for reliability doesn't take long to stockpile before it begins to affect business.

I've also noticed a new pattern on the forum with mods being awfully petty with comments being made to others. Looks a bit odd after being gone for a little bit and seeing this "change".


mod note: Here's a rule that's not new or changed-

• Public discussions of staff decisions are not permitted on the site. If you have any concerns or queries relating to a staff decision please take it up in private with a staff member. You've also managed to throw in a little name calling. I suggest rereading the rules for safe posting.

 

[Troi]

For anyone that doesn't check twitter/facebook http://pics.lockerz.com/s/279765939

 

[vape4life]

The serial number does not correlate to the age of the unit. Nonetheless that's academic; this is not an upgrade to the unit you have, it is a new unit altogether.

Btw, "generation" typically refers to more fundamental change. There has only been one Cloud generation. The "improvements" SM describes, in industry parlance "revisions", are corrective actions and enhancements which do not rise to the level of an actual new generation. The distinction is important.

Well my new non-ticking Cloud definitely FEELS like a new generation Cloud compared to the 'ol ticking beast, coupled with the longer auto shutoff timer.

It's only a matter of time before the official modular Cloud is released.

 

[webb]

For anyone that doesn't check twitter/facebook http://pics.lockerz.com/s/279765939

How do we get our hands on these?

 

[Seek]

It's not firmware, what was upgraded (well, maybe too). It's hardware. Nobody gets hardware upgrades for free. Maybe firmwave, but not physical hardware.

For anyone that doesn't check twitter/facebook http://pics.lockerz.com/s/279765939

I would like it more on the bottom where Evolver puts the logo to not hide the bubbling action

 

[Venomous]

Have you ever considered making firmware upgrades possible from an owners standpoint? Meaning, as improvement come down, a user can apply them...just like on computer motherboards..? The way I see it, it appears that this upgrade program seems to be a nickel and dime approach. I've never owned an electronic product that required me to pay an upgrade fee for updating firmware (Samsung tv's, Yamaha AVRs, bluray players, etc all allow end user firmware upgrades.)

Sony may make improvements to their hardware as CPU/GPU yields improve... However, Sony allows firmware upgrades on a constant basis... Without charging an upgrade fee.

VXL has been catching some heat lately because of its failures. Bad reputation for reliability doesn't take long to stockpile before it begins to affect business.

I've also noticed a new pattern on the forum with mods being awfully petty with comments being made to others. Looks a bit odd after being gone for a little bit and seeing this "change".


mod note: Here's a rule that's not new or changed-

• Public discussions of staff decisions are not permitted on the site. If you have any concerns or queries relating to a staff decision please take it up in private with a staff member. You've also managed to throw in a little name calling. I suggest rereading the rules for safe posting.

I threw in name calling? What?