Vape Carts Health Crisis Megathread
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John Coaltrain
Well-Known Member
Tranquility
Well-Known Member
Flower is not approved for sale in NYC's medical program though. So she would be suggesting a black market product. Kinda the opposite of the FDA approval she is looking for.
It is true that many of the cannabis research has been done with smoked cannabis though. Particularly the stuff from MAPS. But MAPS has multiple studies literally funded by the government with Schedule 1 narcotics such as MDMA, cannabis, and LSD, suggesting their medical benefits. So go figure.
MAPS Vaporizer Research:
In a prolonged triumph of drug-war politics over science, our vaporizer research has been blocked since June 2003 by the National Institute on Drug Abuse (NIDA), which has a monopoly on the supply of marijuana that can be used in research. Since 2003, NIDA has rejected and/or ignored our repeated requests (including one lawsuit for “unreasonable delay”) seeking to purchase 10 grams of marijuana to continue our studies. NIDA uses its monopoly to obstruct studies into both the beneficial medical uses of marijuana as well as into drug delivery devices that might increase the chances of FDA approval of marijuana as a prescription medicine, and might decrease the harms associated with the non-medical uses of marijuana.
In our initial studies, when NIDA wasn’t so politicized about medical marijuana, we learned early on that water-pipes don’t help filter out undesirable particulate matter, although water-pipes may help reduce certain water-soluble gases. In contrast, vaporizers do eliminate combustion products and address the Institute of Medicine’s 1999 recommendation for the development of non-smoking delivery systems for the medicinal use of marijuana. Vaporizers are the only non-smoking delivery system that use the marijuana plant itself, rather than patented and for-profit, pharmaceutical-company-marketed marijuana extracts in spray, lozenge, drops, or pill form. In contrast, vaporizers could conceivably be used in conjunction with material that patients grow themselves or obtain in other ways, at substantially reduced cost as compared to patented products, and, as our preliminary research suggests, at virtually no increased health risk or reduced efficacy.
mitchgo61
I go where the thrills are
They're not that new. Carts have been around for nearly a decade now. Longer than most of the vapes we all love, talk about, and use daily. Are we worried the Mighty or the Grasshopper is killing kids?
It's not "reckless" but it is misleading and misinformed. She said the reasoning was vape carts aren't "FDA approved". But neither are joints. And she's recommending that to patients who have like 100 days to live. I have news for you...if I'm looking at only 100 more days on earth, I'm doing whatever the fuck I want with my body and health.
I think where many of us net out on this is the difference between "prudence" (a good thing) and "hysteria" (never good). Again....if you know your supplier, know his/her extraction process, have been using carts from them for months or years with no ill effects....it's probably not worth losing sleep over. I know I'm not losing any.
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Hackerman
User
Most of mainstream America. I don't watch or read the news at all, personally but I said "we" rather than "you" to avoid the appearance of being rude or accusational.
Abysmal Vapor
Supersniffer 2000 - robot fart detection device
Blah this thread had exloded while i was on vacation .. So the problem was narrowed to a bad cutting agent and faulty carts.
I have dissasembled a few amigo liberty and what should have been an original ccell. I have yet to find one that doesnt have cotton wrapped around..
@iloveCBD I think it was you posting/advertising that there were some Ccells without cotton,have you confirmed that firsthand ? The seller i got my ccells was a reputable one based in the UK claimed to be a US import.
So my thougt is that when those carts dry burn... you get cancer!? I remember few years back they try to pin some shit on the pg/VG stuff,when in fact it was a test done in conditions where dry burn occurs and the silica wick offgasses..
Anyway gotta say that the moment i saw cotton in something advertised as a ceramic cartridge.. i threw the idea of using them overboard..
P.S If anyone has ever saw a cartridge that doesnt have cotton around the ceramic let me know.
Will get in touch with Airistech to ask them if there is such thing on their Qcell cartridge.
I have dissasembled a few amigo liberty and what should have been an original ccell. I have yet to find one that doesnt have cotton wrapped around..
@iloveCBD I think it was you posting/advertising that there were some Ccells without cotton,have you confirmed that firsthand ? The seller i got my ccells was a reputable one based in the UK claimed to be a US import.
So my thougt is that when those carts dry burn... you get cancer!? I remember few years back they try to pin some shit on the pg/VG stuff,when in fact it was a test done in conditions where dry burn occurs and the silica wick offgasses..
Anyway gotta say that the moment i saw cotton in something advertised as a ceramic cartridge.. i threw the idea of using them overboard..
P.S If anyone has ever saw a cartridge that doesnt have cotton around the ceramic let me know.
Will get in touch with Airistech to ask them if there is such thing on their Qcell cartridge.
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Pappy
shmaporist
+1
I'm currently unclear if vaping pods are detrimental or benign. I am clear that vaping flowers is beneficial compared to smoking weed (based on over a decade of personal experience). Until I gain more clarity on the health ramifications of vaping pods, I will refrain from using them, period.
grokit
well-worn member
The bad cutting agent seems to be vitamin e acetate. And from what I've been reading lately is that they've been finding synthetic pot/"spice" in many of the street carts associated with these deaths, with no thc or cbd in most of them (at least in the UK). There's been 6 deaths now from what I understand.
edit: Here's the article that mentions the illegal "spice" carts here in the good ol' USA
I asked my local dispensary if they used vitamin e acetate and they said "nothing but co2 distillate and terps". They're a dispensary, grow op and extraction under one roof. Some carts are labeled "strain specific", while others taste like bubble gum. I only seek out their strain specific carts now, as I realized that the others are from vendors and not their own lab, even though they say no fillers are used.
From experience I cough the most from vaping dry herb, the least from well-winterized shatter, with thc/cbd carts somewhere in-between. Shatter is more cost-effective than the carts are, and is easier to hit.
I only use carts for convenience, they wouldn't meet my needs as a primary method anyways.
Rule of thumb: don't use street carts
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silverharbinger
Well-Known Member
Actually, I do have some concerns about all forms of vaping. Not so many decades ago tobacco use in all forms was pitched as having health benefits. Doctors, actual doctors, used to advise patients to smoke certain types of tobacco or use it in other ways to cure or treat various conditions. It seems to me that while we don't have doctors today advising their patients to vape (except maybe as an alternative to smoking tobacco) that we are living in that same period of irrational exuberance.
All that aside I'm one of those people who say it is your body, your choice. People should be informed about the risks (like this current problem with certain types of vaping is demonstrating) but no one can force that to happen either. You as an adult should do pretty much whatever you want to yourself.
And I don't want some young kid messing with a battery-operated vaporizer either. If something goes really wrong I doubt it would be fatal to a child, but my understanding is that these batteries can have some pretty severe discharge fires and release toxic gases. I wouldn't want that on my conscience.
Pappy
shmaporist
Excellent reporting, thanks! The first article I've read in weeks that sheds light on the e-vape epidemic as opposed to generating heat and confusion about it.
https://www.apnews.com/7b452f4af90b4620ab0ff0eb2cca62cc
TheThriftDrifter
Land of the long vapor cloud
Kilo Crusher
Member
Making more sense.
Just my thoughts. Some dumbass thought it was a good idea to add China isolate to a distillate cutting agent.. 100% vit E with China shit, all that would equal no good.
I know it will hurt, but we should have stopped trading with China years ago.
That would kill my game, and I would be ok with that.. Other opportunities would arise .
Anybody know of a USA cart manufacturer? I Don't. If you do, I would love to visit their manufacturing facilities .
Just my thoughts. Some dumbass thought it was a good idea to add China isolate to a distillate cutting agent.. 100% vit E with China shit, all that would equal no good.
I know it will hurt, but we should have stopped trading with China years ago.
That would kill my game, and I would be ok with that.. Other opportunities would arise .
Anybody know of a USA cart manufacturer? I Don't. If you do, I would love to visit their manufacturing facilities .
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mitchgo61
I go where the thrills are
In my state, licensed medical providers sell carts either made by them or by in-state labs that make the extracts direct from the medical growers’ flower. I’m sure many of the other medical states have in-state extraction labs.
I’m not sure they offer tours to the public though.
Kilo Crusher
Member
I make my own disty, thank you. A company that manufactures the carrts in the US is what I was referring to. There is not one that I know of, all come from China. Not filling them or making disty, a monkey could do that.
mitchgo61
I go where the thrills are
You're welcome.
So just so I understand what you're saying....you have an issue with the physical parts of the carts potentially being compromised, ie the glass, metal, heating element, etc? Because nearly every flower vape we all use and love and talk about non-fucking-stop has parts made and/or assembled in China, and (IME) those devices are all fine. I think the problem here is the stuff inside the carts and not the hardware. (Your reference to China isolate made me think that's what you were talking about....not the hardware. Maybe I misinterpreted the thrust of your post.)
As for monkeys and "disty", I don't agree. There's a huge delta between poorly made concentrates and really pure, high end, tasty extracts. In my experience. YMMV and all that.
Planck
believes in Dog
That's your final answer?
Seems to me this is a made in the USA problem. The empty carts are coming from china, sure. But they are being filled in the USA and it appears the cutting and thickening additives are also made in the USA.
Your logic seems as shaky as banning flavored ecigs because people are getting sick and maybe dead from vaping THC concentrates with vitamin E acetate added.
nickdanger
Collector of Functional Art
Are you sure the additives are made in the USA? Last I read, they were very secretive about what is actually in the products, so I can't imagine they would be open to admitting they purchased the additives from China and reselling them.
Pappy
shmaporist
It's feasible Spice/Salts and cutting agents are primarily responsible according to the AP investigation. At this point I'd like to see random lab tests of some California sanctioned brands currently on the shelves (Heavy Hitter, Eel River, Jetty, Bloom, etc.). I'd also like additional research into the safety of the e-vape pod/cart delivery system.
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Kilo Crusher
Member
This would have slowed the k2 and All RCs from China. Including the current Fentanyl crisis, that's killing thousands of our youth.
I get a lot of merchandise from China, because there are not any other options.
I would lose a lot from a trade freez, and I'm ok with that. I assure you an American co. would start MANUFACTURING carts.
Those comments say nothing about bad carts coming from China. However, this has always been in the back of my mind. The wrong metals heated to wrong temps and your fucked...10 years later with cancers. Who knows, yet.
Maybe a put together in the USA problem.
This is an acute problem. Ecigs been around for 10+ years, they are likely to cause long term problems. But, far better than the tar laden tobacco.
Funny, growing up we had STRAWBERRY HILL, BOONS FARM, and we cant forget thoes two wine cooler brothers in the 80's and 90's. Hell I purchased rootBEER recently, could not even tell ETOH was in the product. We dont hear of banning flavoring in ETOH products. Hell I remember having to chew big red to drink my daddy's Schlitz, but would chugged one after another of my mother's peach coolers.
ETOH literally causes thousands of deaths in our youth each month. Im willing to bet Ecigs have saved their fare share of lives. Most likely mine, (I hope).
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Kilo Crusher
Member
I agree there is a big difference between high end and shit. I have made both, proudly.As for monkeys and "disty", I don't agree. There's a huge delta between poorly made concentrates and really pure, high end, tasty extracts. In my experience. YMMV and all that.
But I have come to the conclusion, after teaching several friends. A monkey could be TOUGHT to follow a recipe. I almost literally mean this.
I assure you, the guy, The Extractor is getting payed 10 to at most 15 an hour. Not a chemist salary. But a chemist did figure out how to teach a monkey to do it for that cheap.
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Planck
believes in Dog
I can't be 100% certain but I saw statements made before these deaths that the products are produced in the USA. Statements by executives from companies selling "additives" for cannabis products. True Terpenes was one such company as I recall. They mentioned the their thickener was for topical use only but admitted customers were misusing it.
Most product and many vendors have disappeared from the WWW in the last few days. These companies are being served with subpoenas:
--Honey Cut Diluting Agent by Honey Cut Labs LLC in Santa Monica, California
--Uber Thick by Floraplex Terpenes in Ypsilanti, Michigan
--Pure Diluent by Mass Terpenes in Amherst, Massachusetts
The killer appears to be vitamin e acetate however no one has yet claimed that the vitamin e acetate was bad/contaminated. Nor has anyone stated in the product was natural or synthetic. Synthetic vitamin e acetate is a petroleum product that is not that close to the real thing. Neither are vapable.
Based on what I know now it appears that people vaped oil in the form of vitamin e acetate and got sick and some died. We know inhaling any oils is very bad for our lungs.
Kilo Crusher
Member
How so, I would love to know how you came to this conclusion. Do you have a clue what's in inhalers asthma, COPD , INSULIN meds, POT.? MOST DO HAVE OILS.
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Ramahs
Fucking Combustion (mostly) Since February 2017
You do realize that the chemicals that we vaporize out of the cannabis plant and inhale are oils, right?
Planck
believes in Dog
Goggle lipoid pneumonia and related information, form your own conclusions.
Asthma inhalers contain propylene glycol, likely COPD inhalers also.
I assure you none contain long chain lipids AKA "oils" aka fats. Petroleum oil, vegetable oil and fats will cause severe health problems in inhaled in sufficient quantities.Oil is a somewhat broad term. Perhaps to impercise in the context of this thread, for example vape oil/e-cig juice is not an oil, Hash oil/BHO is not an oil. Perhaps better said as not a long chain lipid?
or perhaps
The triesters of fatty acids with glycerol (1,2,3-trihydroxypropane) compose the class of lipids known as fats and oils, and petroleum oils including mineral oil. DO NOT VAPE THESE!
Bacon grease on your herb, umm no don't do it Billy!
