Underdog Log Vapes

Jokermachine

Well-Blown Member
Send Underdogette a message and she'll help get you set up.
Amazing company here. My first stop when looking for log stuff. Which leads me to this...
Recently, on another log forum, a customer bought a gong that was defective (sticking to his Nano port). He still can't get a replacement since December. Of course, I don't know the whole story, but how the hell much does a gong cost? I mean, just send the guy a new gong so this kind of shit doesn't get this far and make the company look bad.
 
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MrStrickland

Well-Known Member
ok forgive me thread but while I eventually will read all 360 odd pages of this discussion, I think I need to ask some noob underdog questions to the experts here so I can get some quicker answers before I contact underdogette

First I want to say I absolutely love the aesthetics of the pieces underdog put out. I've wanted one for over a year, and the reason I initially was drawn to log vapes were the wood options available and the how unique each can be.

That being said, I'm looking for a smaller/slimmer dog. The pop can comparison is helpful on the site (I did have to go buy a coke I tell you whut), but is there a sort of average height/diameter or are they all very varied? Am I better off just asking for specifics on units pictured that I'm interested in directly?

Next, since I'll probably be picking based on looks and size - Does material or size play a factor in heat retention for the units? I'm hopeful to not get a vvps (at least at first), so I just want one that can be popped on a bubbler and perform. Is the consensus that I should be fine with most units for that?

Do the gongs add much height to the unit (maybe I just need to see a picture of one)? Is there a consensus about the best way to connect to a bubbler or third party gongs i should know about?

Thanks guys, sorry for all the questions.
 

underdog

shade-tree vapor engineer
Manufacturer
ok forgive me thread but while I eventually will read all 360 odd pages of this discussion, I think I need to ask some noob underdog questions to the experts here so I can get some quicker answers before I contact underdogette

First I want to say I absolutely love the aesthetics of the pieces underdog put out. I've wanted one for over a year, and the reason I initially was drawn to log vapes were the wood options available and the how unique each can be.

That being said, I'm looking for a smaller/slimmer dog. The pop can comparison is helpful on the site (I did have to go buy a coke I tell you whut), but is there a sort of average height/diameter or are they all very varied? Am I better off just asking for specifics on units pictured that I'm interested in directly?

Next, since I'll probably be picking based on looks and size - Does material or size play a factor in heat retention for the units? I'm hopeful to not get a vvps (at least at first), so I just want one that can be popped on a bubbler and perform. Is the consensus that I should be fine with most units for that?

Do the gongs add much height to the unit (maybe I just need to see a picture of one)? Is there a consensus about the best way to connect to a bubbler or third party gongs i should know about?

Thanks guys, sorry for all the questions.

Good questions!

The pieces vary pretty widely in size so you might want to message Underdogette for more specific size info than the soda can comparison. Height is the most consistent dimension and averages around 4" (+/- 1/4") on most pieces, especially those of simple cylindrical design. That said some pieces are considerably taller or shorter so again contact Underdogette for specifics.

Size and wood density will affect operating temp and heat up time to a small (but detectable) degree. Larger sizes and higher densities result in a slight operating temp drop and slightly longer heat up time. That being said in smaller sized Dogs (like Twigs) those effects are considerably less noticeable than in full size pieces.

Temp wise you are likely to be fine without a VVPS, this has always been the case for most users but even more so since I slightly bumped up the heat output on all standard vapes a month or two back. You'll get max performance out of the Nylon Stems and NonGs (for the bubbler) but the Glass Stems and GonGs also benefit from the increased heat.

Standard GonGs are quite tall at just under 5", if you want shorter you can get the Shorty GonGs or NonGs which average around half that length.

Hope I got all your questions. If I missed any or you want more info don't hesitate to post and ask. :peace:
 

MrStrickland

Well-Known Member
Thanks for all the info. You are a true testament to customer service both here and on reddit. It's really refreshing. I just have a few more questions.

You'll get max performance out of the Nylon Stems and NonGs (for the bubbler) but the Glass Stems and GonGs also benefit from the increased heat.

Standard GonGs are quite tall at just under 5", if you want shorter you can get the Shorty GonGs or NonGs which average around half that length.
What enables increased performance out of the NonGs? It is possible to get a shorty gong instead of a regular one included with purchase?

Lastly, do you have a favourite wood you've worked with lately?
 

underdog

shade-tree vapor engineer
Manufacturer
Dave, out of curiosity, how did you up the heat output? Was it a change in design? Resistor? Dog chow?

:peace:

Yes, yes and maybe. :lol:

In all seriousness it was a bit of a combination. Grab a drink and hold on the answer might be a bit long...

> First off I've been slowly moving standard production UDs (vs custom ones) over to our custom stainless steel heater cartridges instead of the typical resistor. I've been gradually making this change the past 2-3 months with this month being the first that all new standard pieces (non-AirCore, non-blowout priced Dogs) have been built using them. The cartridges heat more aggressively, are also much more durable and theoretically more reliable (only time will tell) too. They also allow me to seal the base of the cores even better and without the use of RTV silicone previously employed for that purpose. The only major downside is they cost me 10x the price of the resistor assembly.

> Second I've also evolved the core design over the past few months as well. I shaved off a bit of mass which raises over all operating temp and reduces heat up time. I also reduced the metal-on-wood contact between the core and the wooden body by 60-70% which has similar effects to the reduction in mass and also provides better protection to the UDs wooden body. This has allowed me to discontinue the use of the ceramic insulation previously employed, all without a loss of performance or longevity.

> Third given the improvements above resulted in a leaner, more efficient Dog I was able to cut back the Dog Chow (power) by almost a full volt. This let me source a smaller, more reliable and efficient power supply vs the old huge bricks. The only downside here is the new power supplies cost me 2x the price as the old large bricks.

The current cartridge has different kinds of leads than before but are otherwise physically and functionally the same as when I originally announced them for use in custom Dogs a year or two back in this post: http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/underdog-vaporizer.4214/page-285#post-492823


Thanks for all the info. You are a true testament to customer service both here and on reddit. It's really refreshing. I just have a few more questions.


What enables increased performance out of the NonGs? It is possible to get a shorty gong instead of a regular one included with purchase?

Lastly, do you have a favourite wood you've worked with lately?

Thank you, we really are happy to be of service.. it's what we're here for.

The NonGs perform better because the bowl size is smaller so the heat is more concentrated so you'll get 1-2 (most users) super potent hits out of the tiny load then blow it out and repeat as needed. A modern vaporizer powered iteration of a one hitter if you will. The GonGs have a larger bowl so hold a larger load and provide for multiple hit capacity and the option for stirring between hits but have more diffused heating. The NonGs design allows for a slightly more airtight connection to the core too which is a part of their power I forgot to mention above. The GonGs have an intentional, slightly loose around the core design so as to prevent sticking and breakage but this adds to their diffused heating.

I don't think the website will allow a substitution of a Shorty GonG instead of a full length as the shorties usually cost us a couple extra bucks but mention it to Underdogette in your messages and see what she can do. She's friendly and almost never bites.

Favorite wood.. whew.. tough one. I have something like 100+ species of wood in stock so I work with different ones constantly and my favorite changes every time I pick up a pretty piece lol. They've been custom Dogs and haven't made it to the website (or here) but I've really been enjoying some high end pieces in Olive, Pistache and Spalted Alanthus. Less high end pieces I've really been digging some Bocote, Spalted Tamarind and Spalted Hackberry. You can find pictures of some of those buried in this thread, on our website (see 'All Vapes') and maybe on our facebook/Pinterest/etc.
 

underdog

shade-tree vapor engineer
Manufacturer
This sounds intriguing! How does the SS heater cartridge work compared to the typical resistor of yesteryear?

:peace:

Very similarly in function with the differences mostly in the aspect of form. Resistors basically generate heat as a side effect of their intended purpose while the cartridges are designed for no other purpose than heat generation.

As a result of their intentional design the cartridges are more robust. They have heavier nichrome elements (the heat making part), swaged on leads instead of welded/soldered and the casing is stainless steel instead of glass/ceramic. The cartridges are designed to operate at up to 1400°F so the measly temps we use them at are a walk in the park by comparison. Resistors are damaged and eventually fail from heat stress at even these low vaping temps.

Functionally the cartridges do have a bit more mass than the resistors because of the heavier nichrome and the SS casing so they take a tiny bit longer to come up to heat on a watt-for-watt basis but most people don't/won't notice this. In car terms maybe they lose a little acceleration but make up for it in increased top speed and torque.

The resistors are a great, simple, cost effective solution for generating heat and get the job done.

The cartridges are a better solution to the same goal and I think they better suit the reliable, high-end experience I'm aiming for with Underdog. :peace:
 

darkrom

Great Scott!
OK Dave tempt me up here. What do you have for exotic looking twigs with the new core? Also can every twig have the shiny finish on those new claro walnut pieces? What's the finish made of (just curious) it looks nice.

I think I need a nice super exotic twig. I'd love to have my jester serving up aromatherapy scent all day, with a twig there to sit on top of my Möbius.
 

Jokermachine

Well-Blown Member
As a result of their intentional design the cartridges are more robust. They have heavier nichrome elements (the heat making part), swaged on leads instead of welded/soldered and the casing is stainless steel instead of glass/ceramic. The cartridges are designed to operate at up to 1400°F so the measly temps we use them at are a walk in the park by comparison.

Here's a good picture.
http://www.tutco.com/_images/products/dimensiondrawing/standard_cartridge.jpg
 

underdog

shade-tree vapor engineer
Manufacturer
OK Dave tempt me up here. What do you have for exotic looking twigs with the new core? Also can every twig have the shiny finish on those new claro walnut pieces? What's the finish made of (just curious) it looks nice.

I think I need a nice super exotic twig. I'd love to have my jester serving up aromatherapy scent all day, with a twig there to sit on top of my Möbius.

All the individually listed pieces on the website have the new core and cartridge, so do the 'Vape Special' pieces, only the remaining Air Cores are without. The shiny finish can be applied to any new pieces but takes best on the smoother and denser woods. It's nothing super special just a carnuba wax buffing compound that's buffed.


I'm getting an underdog undergraduate education here, it's sweet.

So do all the dogs (non air) currently for sale have the new core? I'm going to try and place my order today. Picking a wood is the most difficult part it seems.

Yep, you've got it. All pieces currently for sale besides Air Cores have the new setup. We could always do you a custom piece too if nothing current just jumps out at you. The turnaround on custom work is only about a week long so not too bad.


I think all but the aircore and the sale prices ones have the new core, if I understood him correctly? Now I need another dog!

Exactly, to clarify though the 'sale' priced ones listed as 'Vape Special' do have the new core/cartridge as well.


Whats the difference between a lost dog..twig...monkey pod..air cores? Sorry if repeated question.

KidFated nailed it. If you have more questions just let us know we're always happy to answer them.
 
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darkrom

Great Scott!
Any of the twigs left in that claro walnut bundle? Looking for just the right twig. Not sure what wood to use, thats really the only decision to make. I definitely want another twig :)
 

Philreal187

Well-Known Member
Quick Preview and first day opinion on the Underdog Log.



This Buckeye Burl dogg showed up yesterday afternoon. I snapped a fast teaser photo on my phone but plan to use my gf camera to get some high quality pictures once i get the chance.

First off this is my first log vape I was going in off the positive feed back of fellow FC members. Once i got the dogg warmed up I reached for the direct draw first. I was able to get instinct big rips with out restriction other than the pack of the herb. I then used it thru water with a nong and it was a little different to use since the nong does not lock into place, in other words not a hands free set up. But the hits were amazing really smooth. Next I reached for the whip and felt just like my old vapor bros box minus the huge bowl and long hose haha. I really enjoyed having the whip experience since parting with my VB box in spring last year. The nylon stem worked pretty good as well nice flavor over all. Finally not to be forgotten the aroma cups with a few drops of the orange oil and some bees wax the over all experience has been a pleasant one. With the cup and whip its like a mini hand held vapor bros box. With any stem using the SS tip its like a few great hits almost the one hitter but just a few more closer to 4 or 5 on avg so far. With the direct draw that will get u ready couch locked if using solo. I'm taking the dog to over my friends house tonight to continue breaking it in. He has been only vaping with hammer since i sold him it 3 months ago, so im curious to what he thinks since he is the only one of my friends that has realized that vaping is the best way.

Any ways thought i would chime in with a little feed back of the first impressions with are nothing short of outstanding.

@underdog & @underdogette Thanks for bring this pup to life for me and doing it in such a quick easy and unique manner. This whole experience has got me even further interested in this underground community vaping. The chance to work with quality small businesses and not give money to big companies and corporations makes me feel a lot better about this world. In some respects this world of big business has grown "too big to fail" but in others it already rebuilding from the bottom up. To support the rebirth of america and small business is an honor i hope to spend a life time contributing to.
@Snappo & @Ed's TnT this wouldnt be concluded even if it was suppose to be a short post with out a huge thanks for all the help and great craftsmanship your guys bring to the table.
 

Snappo

Caveat Emptor - "A Billion People Can Be Wrong!"
Accessory Maker
Quick Preview and first day opinion on the Underdog Log.



This Buckeye Burl dogg showed up yesterday afternoon. I snapped a fast teaser photo on my phone but plan to use my gf camera to get some high quality pictures once i get the chance.

First off this is my first log vape I was going in off the positive feed back of fellow FC members. Once i got the dogg warmed up I reached for the direct draw first. I was able to get instinct big rips with out restriction other than the pack of the herb. I then used it thru water with a nong and it was a little different to use since the nong does not lock into place, in other words not a hands free set up. But the hits were amazing really smooth. Next I reached for the whip and felt just like my old vapor bros box minus the huge bowl and long hose haha. I really enjoyed having the whip experience since parting with my VB box in spring last year. The nylon stem worked pretty good as well nice flavor over all. Finally not to be forgotten the aroma cups with a few drops of the orange oil and some bees wax the over all experience has been a pleasant one. With the cup and whip its like a mini hand held vapor bros box. With any stem using the SS tip its like a few great hits almost the one hitter but just a few more closer to 4 or 5 on avg so far. With the direct draw that will get u ready couch locked if using solo. I'm taking the dog to over my friends house tonight to continue breaking it in. He has been only vaping with hammer since i sold him it 3 months ago, so im curious to what he thinks since he is the only one of my friends that has realized that vaping is the best way.

Any ways thought i would chime in with a little feed back of the first impressions with are nothing short of outstanding.

@underdog & @underdogette Thanks for bring this pup to life for me and doing it in such a quick easy and unique manner. This whole experience has got me even further interested in this underground community vaping. The chance to work with quality small businesses and not give money to big companies and corporations makes me feel a lot better about this world. In some respects this world of big business has grown "too big to fail" but in others it already rebuilding from the bottom up. To support the rebirth of america and small business is an honor i hope to spend a life time contributing to.
@Snappo & @Ed's TnT this wouldnt be concluded even if it was suppose to be a short post with out a huge thanks for all the help and great craftsmanship your guys bring to the table.
GORGEOUS!!! STUNNING!!! BEAUTIFUL!!! UNIQUE!!! EXQUISITE!!! WOW!!! ENJOY!!!!!
 
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