Tornado by Vestratto

HoodiesAndHondas

HoodiesAndHondas

Member
Roffa said:
I do mean underpowered. I use the Wand too, if I have to. But the vapor signature of a high power induction heater is incomparable with what you get with the Wand (and too much faffing, imo). That's why Vestratto built the Forge. It's not about "faster", it's about "more energy". I have experience with both Wand and the Inductor. I can compare.
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Fair enough. I would love to give the Forge a try (the plug-in requirement of the Inductor is a no-go for me, personally), but at that price point, I’m just not a customer.

I guess my whole issue here is that I wouldn’t want others reading, who are researching what to buy, what works with what, etc, to think they HAVE to get an Inductor or Forge to enjoy the Tornado and get good results. That’s really my point in all of this. Not really that I was comparing the Wand to anything else, saying it’s this or that, in comparison.
 
General Disaster

General Disaster

Stationary momentum!
I get the feeling that at least some of this 'argument/discussion' over heating methods is really more a reflection of personal need and preference, plus a dash of financial restriction being the mother of invention?
($350US for a Forge is not far from twice the cost of the 'nado itself and well over three times the price of a Wand, and I bet the Tornado rips as a vape with a Wand, Torch or any other heater).

Roffa said:
I' ve found, completely counterintuitively, that you can get very terpy hits out of Tornado by heating agressively. Long slow heating doesn't get you that. It's what the Tornado was designed for imo.
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I can see how that could be the case, but I'd also say that it's quite possible that others with access to only a Wand have by necessity found ways to get similar results, even if not as easy to find that ideal point.
But equally valid from my p.o.v. is the fact I can hardly smell or taste anything in a vape, certainly not to the degree of it being an additional pleasure above (or alongside even) the effects of the active components. I'm not getting a 'nado for flavour at all, rather for it's far more unique properties of bioavailability (regardless of the BS about 'gassification' etc) and rare vapour conditioning (and a tiny little bit of VAS? 😉).
 
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RedZep

Well-Known Member
I just simply disagree with most of you. I detect a profound difference in potency between wand and torch. So I just did a little experiment. Heating a bowl with the wand and one with the torch. Then ejecting the bowl as soon as it's done, to see if one has cooked the herb more in the process. Below are pics of the results. I waited 30 mins for the device to fully cool before switching heating methods.

Both had two level small scoops shown in the second pic. This almost fills the bowl and is probably around 0.16g. I use a medium size eagle torch single flame. I aim it at the atomiser for first 10 seconds, then I aim it half way down the bowl until it clicks. This usually gives me very even fully dark brown avb after drawing. I had the wand set to 800 which is the setting that gives me the same colour avb as my torch. The heating time with my wand, and my torch were almost exactly the same. Wand batteries were fully charged as per pic.

Both bowls were ejected immediately after heating and before I would usually draw, then emptied out onto the ceramic coaster. The one on the left is the avb from the torch. The one on the right is from the wand. I'll let you all make of it what you will.
I am also interested in someone using some kind of special thermometer to determine if both methods heat the atomiser to the same degree.
The avb on the right looks darker in the pic. But the difference in avb is still about as profound as the difference I detect in potency.

Not saying this to be too harsh, but I will be putting the left avb through a vape when I finish work. The avb on the right is going in the ashtray, along with what little respect I had for the the wand and Tornado combo.
https://imgur.com/a/25QipPz
 
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TigoleBitties

TigoleBitties

Big and Bouncy
RedZep said:
Yeah I just disagree with most of you. I detect a profound difference in potency between wand and torch. So I just did a little experiment. Heating a bowl with the wand and one with the torch. Then ejecting the bowl as soon as it's done, to see if one has cooked the herb more in the process. Below are pics of the results. I waited 30 mins for the device to fully cool before switching heating methods.

Both had two level small scoops shown in the second pic. This almost fills the bowl and is probably around 0.16g. I use a medium size eagle torch single flame. I aim it at the atomiser for first 10 seconds, then I aim it half way down the bowl until it clicks. This usually gives me very even fully dark brown avb after drawing. I had the wand set to 800 which is the setting that gives me the same colour avb as my torch. The heating time with my wand, and my torch were almost exactly the same. Wand batteries were fully charged as per pic.

Both bowls were ejected immediately after heating and before I would usually draw, then emptied out onto the ceramic coaster. The one on the left is the avb from the torch. The one on the right is from the wand. I'll let you all make of it what you will. I am also interested in someone using some kind of special thermometer to determine if both methods heat the atomiser to the same degree. The avb on the right looks darker in the pic. But the difference in avb is still about as profound as the difference I detect in potency.
https://imgur.com/a/25QipPz
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I dig what you're trying to say.

If you're heating the bowl area directly with the Wand or the torch then the conduction effect will start cooking your flower before you get a chance to inhale the vapor and I'm assuming this is what you're trying to show - that the Wand will cook things more hence the loss of potency.

Since you're spending somewhere between 1/3 to 1/2 of your heating time with the torch on the atomizer section and not directly cooking the bowl, this will preserve your flower from cooking too much before inhaling compared to the Wand. I get this.

However, a couple of things. The Wand (at least my version) is capable of sliding down past the bowl to heat the atomizer section exclusively. I used to heat only the bowl but I discovered I get the best results by heating ONLY the atomizer section as I described in an earlier post. This should lead to a lot less cooking of the flower and be comparable to your torch in my opinion.

Even if you've got a Wand that doesn't have the clearance to slide down and heat the atomizer, I think what some Wand users are trying to say is that you'll still get a very decent experience with the Wand. Torches aren't expensive compared to a Wand so it may well be worth it for some users to get a torch to maximize their "potency" experience but you may lose consistency and repeatability that you get with an IH.

The Forge and the Inductor are however roughly 3x the price of a Wand so if you've already got a Wand, it's a bit hard to justify one of these for improving your results with the Tornado. If a full bowl was around 0.16g as you say (already pretty big), you have to decide whether losing some of the potency from the early partial cooking of perhaps 0.05g of your bowl is worth $350 to you 🤷‍♂️. With the Wand, you can still mitigate this loss somewhat by taking little inhales while you're heating.
 
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RedZep

Well-Known Member
TigoleBitties said:
I dig what you're trying to say.

If you're heating the bowl area directly with the Wand or the torch then the conduction effect will start cooking your flower before you get a chance to inhale the vapor and I'm assuming this is what you're trying to show - that the Wand will cook things more hence the loss of potency.

Since you're spending somewhere between 1/3 to 1/2 of your heating time with the torch on the atomizer section and not directly cooking the bowl, this will preserve your flower from cooking too much before inhaling compared to the Wand. I get this.

However, a couple of things. The Wand (at least my version) is capable of sliding down past the bowl to heat the atomizer section exclusively. I used to heat only the bowl but I discovered I get the best results by heating ONLY the atomizer section as I described in an earlier post. This should lead to a lot less cooking of the flower and be comparable to your torch in my opinion.

Even if you've got a Wand that doesn't have the clearance to slide down and heat the atomizer, I think what some Wand users are trying to say is that you'll still get a very decent experience with the Wand. Torches aren't expensive compared to a Wand so it may well be worth it for some users to get a torch to maximize their "potency" experience but you may lose consistency and repeatability that you get with an IH.

The Forge and the Inductor are however roughly 3x the price of a Wand so if you've already got a Wand, it's a bit hard to justify one of these for improving your results with the Tornado. If a full bowl was around 0.16g as you say (already pretty big), you have to decide whether losing some of the potency from the early cooking of perhaps 0.03g of your bowl is worth $350 to you 🤷‍♂️.
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My wand allows me to do the same as you. So I will repeat the experiment after work. Can you suggest the wand setting for dark brown one hit extraction, while aiming just at the atomiser?

Yeah sure it will still be an good experience, just vastly inferior imo. Imo the Tornado has drawbacks due to its single minded design philosophy. Airflow, flavour, reload work flow are all below similar vapes. The extra restriction from the atomiser sums up the philosophy as "nothing matters other than potency". So for users to sacrifice a significant amount of that potency strikes me as madness. But each to their own.

EDIT, I won't be buying a Forge no. Too expensive, even before buying importing the batteries. I might buy an Inductor in a sale one day though. Until then I'll be getting the most out of the Tornado with the torch, and when I fancy using the wand I will use a vape that actually pairs well with it like the Tempest and Convector XL.
 
TigoleBitties

TigoleBitties

Big and Bouncy
RedZep said:
My wand allows me to do the same as you. So I will repeat the experiment after work. Can you suggest the wand setting for dark brown one hit extraction, while aiming just at the atomiser?
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I don't usually go for dark brown OHE but I would suggest pulling the Wand somewhere between first and second click. Maybe try first pulling the Wand right after the first click since the second can sometimes come quickly. You can also try this - preheat just the atomizer section for about 8 flashes, then wait 10 sec before heating applying the Wand again and heat until first click. This helps get better results with cold starts. You can ignore the preheat step if you're chaining bowls.
RedZep said:
Yeah sure it will still be an good experience, just vastly inferior imo. Imo the Tornado has drawbacks due to its single minded design philosophy. Airflow, flavour, reload work flow are all below similar vapes. The extra restriction from the atomiser sums up the philosophy as "nothing matters other than potency". So for users to sacrifice a significant amount of that potency strikes me as madness. But each to their own.
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You may find heating just the atomizer comparable to your torch. I don't know bc I don't use a torch. With such a large bowl, I don't feel I'm lacking for potency and gram for gram, the Tornado doesn't seem inefficient with the Wand to me 🤷‍♂️. Probably only second to the CXL in heating time for TEDs with large bowls.
RedZep said:
EDIT, I won't be buying a Forge no. Too expensive, even before buying importing the batteries. I might buy an Inductor in a sale one day though. Until then I'll be getting the most out of the Tornado with the torch, and when I fancy using the wand I will use a vape that actually pairs well with it like the Tempest and Convector XL.
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It's all good. There are a fair number of satisfied Wand users from what I can see out there that share my experience. Enjoy your 'Nado!
 
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Wozz

Wozz

Well-Known Member
Likewise, the price point, battery hassles, import fees, then if anything goes wrong ...

The forge could be amazing, but I just can't afford / justify the punt to find out.

The inductor is available in the UK, so if it does ever go on sale I might be more tempted ..

Ontil then torch n wand it is... N 🤞 on a new induction heater hitting the market. I did hear tease of another, maybe., hopefully..
 
T

Testersinc

Active Member
One day i will get strong IH.
Im sure it will offer a better experience but the big question is..
By how much?
Would it be a small improvement or life changing $450 value including battery/charger feel upgrade?


In the meantime wand still does the job with tornado.
 
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RedZep

Well-Known Member
Testersinc said:
One day i will get strong IH.
Im sure it will offer a better experience but the big question is..
By how much?
Would it be a small improvement or life changing $450 value including battery/charger feel upgrade?


In the meantime wand still does the job with tornado.
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Depends on what it is replacing. If you are replacing the wand, you will save a lot of money over time on your bud. I use about twice as much to get to where I want to be with the wand. If you mainly use Tornado, that would pay for itself depending on how much of a heavy user you are.

If you are replacing the torch then the gains are more about practicality. Some people don't like using a torch. For me personally the Forge is just not worth it. Maybe if I had hand mobility issues.
 
PrematureEvaporation

PrematureEvaporation

Well-Known Member
Obviously torches aren’t directly analogous to IH but I’ve found that I get stronger effects with a slower heatup than I do a faster one. I stick with the RONX now and get a very repeatable 30 second heatup with a good mixture of potency and flavour.

Faster heatups are very terpy but I find myself wanting a slow heated bowl afterwards to feel “whole”

Was gonna get a wand but these conversations are making me second guess that, plus there’s meant to be some new IH on the horizon that’s both powerful and affordable
 
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RedZep

Well-Known Member
PrematureEvaporation said:
Obviously torches aren’t directly analogous to IH but I’ve found that I get stronger effects with a slower heatup than I do a faster one. I stick with the RONX now and get a very repeatable 30 second heatup with a good mixture of potency and flavour.

Faster heatups are very terpy but I find myself wanting a slow heated bowl afterwards to feel “whole”
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I think my torch heat up is just over that, including heating the atomiser. I find the potency to by excellent. It feels like a sweet spot for my tastes. So I agree.
 
PrematureEvaporation

PrematureEvaporation

Well-Known Member
RedZep said:
I think my torch heat up is just over that, including heating the atomiser. I find the potency to by excellent. It feels like a sweet spot for my tastes. So I agree.
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Yeah I think 30 seconds is generally the sweet spot for torching. Too much faster it’s not hybrid enough and too slow you’re facing massive terpene loss and a less complex high.

Also has anyone seen the Tornado stem has dropped? It’s… an Anvil stem sawn off a bit.

I’ll be sticking with my scruffy adapter and rosewood stem lmao
 
PrematureEvaporation

PrematureEvaporation

Well-Known Member
Now I think about it, the way they’ve done it is probably the best way despite how much of a bodge job it initially appears to me.

Get to use all the heatshields and mouthpieces you’d already have as an Anvil owner. The only bit that’s new is the only bit that needed changing to regain compatibility. Relatively cheap part too.

I’m happy with that I’ve got but for new customers who own Anvils it’s now as easy as buying the Tornado and the stem part.

It’s kind of funny it’s taken them so long to work out they could just modify a handful of Anvil parts though. If this is the route they’ve chosen we could’ve had compatibility at launch very easily.
 
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TigoleBitties

TigoleBitties

Big and Bouncy
RedZep said:
Depends on what it is replacing. If you are replacing the wand, you will save a lot of money over time on your bud. I use about twice as much to get to where I want to be with the wand. If you mainly use Tornado, that would pay for itself depending on how much of a heavy user you are.
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Wasting half your flower with the Wand should never happen. You can not only heat the atomizer to save on cooking your flower early but one of the best advantages to the Wand is the ability to inhale while you're heating.

I've experimented with taking draws about 10sec into the heating process where conduction is just on the edge of creating little wisps of vapor. You can continue to draw while heating right up until the click so in theory you should waste almost nothing of your flower. In theory, it should be even more efficient than a torch where you can't really inhale until you're finished heating unless it's on a rig where the torch is far enough away from your face.

Not only do you not waste any "potency" but I've used this method during re-heats or cold starts. It doesn't matter because you can use the thickness of the vapor to judge when you want to stop heating and not even have to rely on any clicks with some practice. If a tool gives you some advantage (drawing while heating) then you should try and take advantage. :2c:
 
T

Testersinc

Active Member
RedZep said:
Depends on what it is replacing. If you are replacing the wand, you will save a lot of money over time on your bud. I use about twice as much to get to where I want to be with the wand. If you mainly use Tornado, that would pay for itself depending on how much of a heavy user you are.

If you are replacing the torch then the gains are more about practicality. Some people don't like using a torch. For me personally the Forge is just not worth it. Maybe if I had hand mobility issues.
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Hard for me to buy that there is lost of potency with wand. Ive tried my friend tornado with torch and not much difference in potency for me (unless he is not a master heating the device with torch) . I have high tolerance at this moment of time so that might be playing a role.

Edit: i also bought a second tornado because im impressed with its performance with wand.
 
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hotmeals

hotmeals

Serial vapist
RedZep said:
I don't care about terps either. Flavour isn't the Tornados strong point anyway.
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RedZep said:
Airflow, flavour, reload work flow are all below similar vapes. The extra restriction from the atomiser sums up the philosophy as "nothing matters other than potency".
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:hmm: Isn't it funny how it's always the people who don't care about flavor who are claiming the Anvil and Tornado underperform in that area?
 
hotmeals,
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