Discontinued ThermoVape

[PB88123]

@pecosthecat I like way you describe things, they ring though clear as a bell. like the drinking a thick milkshake, its something any one , well anyone at least that has had a milkshake , can understand.

a few things, I wonder as I read and read,

1. I see lots of talk about a battery set lasting only one bowl, but not very often does anyone say a weight or some measurable means, as there are so many variables to what one calls "a bowl". Is it safe to assume using BB size grind a loosely, almost dropped in, half bowl will give 8 to 10 draws and both the bowl and batteries should be cashed then?

2. battery charge time after being cashed? I should think, you have to wait for them to cool down before charging. If you had to put a TIME that the batteries last how long would it be? how long does it take for the 8 to 10 hits?

3. heat during and after use.
this may be the most confusing bit to me about the whole thing. I read anything from barely warm to very very hot, like not even wanting to hold it, blister hot. when I ask myself why, what are the variables? some say its hot some don't? a few things I can come to 1. is the heater core itself or the switch. the switch being the only moving part and the hand built heater core. is it possible that the only hand done part , the heater core, that some get hotter than others? Due to the "human hand variable" ? what is the target temp range when these cores are built? Can every heater core, hand built, produce the exact same temps? my guess is no.

the only other things I can see it being is of course the OTHER HUMAN variable, the customer, I have to wonder if the desires for these "big vapor clouds" does not lead folks to basically keep the battery pushed up too long, sorta out of design range?

I can't think of any reasons but these two, the whole thing is made by machines, oh wait isn't the heater core, what the name, housing somehow hand assembled and glued? could it have something to do with it? perhaps users are trying to use it out of the range the makers thought they would?

Like I said this getting hot thing has really got me scratching "me ol melon" :/ some get hot , some don't... hummm

most posts related to heat during use refereed to their thumbs getting warm/hot , and not the rest of their hand. does any part of the delrin get "too" warm/hot? or is it just the battery tube slider thing that gets that way?

1 and 2. A full bowl to the rim will be .1 and half bowl is .05 (according to what I do). I find the sweet spot to be .08-.09 or just below the rim. I say .05 is 7-8 hits worth and .10 is 15-16 hits. So I will change my batteries out after 8 hits even if they are not dead. Then get another 7-8 hits and then change out the batteries and a fresh bowl. I do wait for the batteries to cool before charging them. I bought another charger and more batteries so I can charge 4 at once and get a rotation going on my desk and grab a couple when I leave the house.

3. I find doing hit after hit 6+ times it will get hot. If you pass it back and forth with a friend and take 12 hits total in a row it will get very hot to the point you can't touch it and it does need a break to cool down. Perhaps this is what people talk about. They get their new toy and want to use it nonstop to the point where it has been on for so long it got really hot. I can take 5 hits and wait a minute or two in-between hits and I don't have any problems with heat. I even leave it on for 35+ seconds and don't have problems as long as I give it a chance to cool down after that hit. The thumb switch during use does get warm and doesn't bother me. You just have to adapt to the heat instead of saying it is a problem. Note it is winter so I am testing it anywhere from -20C (outside) to 18C (inside) or -4F (outside) to 65F (inside). It will take longer to cool down in the summer so I may need to space hits out more.

There is a google doc with posts from FC member ThermoVape about the ThermoVape here.

And for reading all this enjoy a TV exhale video in 1080p

Edit:spelling

 

[pecosthecat]

In my experience, the biggest factor which keeps the warm-up time quick is holding the Thermovape vertically while inhaling. I had a issues in the past where even a 10+ second warmup was not sufficient to get the thick vapor going when holding the Thermovape horizontally or at a 45% degree angle. Handling the Thermovape in that way I could feel the switch getting quite warm. Now when I hope it vertically, I don't have this issue at all. Even with my chill time between hits, it does not really effect the warm up time. After the first hit, the weed is really quite dry and subsequent hits are good with only a 5 second warmup.

I strongly suggest that folks with the Thermovape try taking a hit with the Thermovape held horizontally, like you would hit a pipe and then use the same warm up time and inhale with the it held vertically. In my experience, it is a huge difference.

Very thorough post, Pecos. I agree with your assesment and admire that you took the time to lay it out so well. My unit will get warm at times when I'm doing back to back hits, but not uncomfortably so. The warmup time is much quicker when you to back to back hits, so that's a plus.

 

[PB88123]

In my experience, the biggest factor which keeps the warm-up time quick is holding the Thermovape vertically while inhaling. I had a issues in the past where even a 10+ second warmup was not sufficient to get the thick vapor going when holding the Thermovape horizontally or at a 45% degree angle. Handling the Thermovape in that way I could feel the switch getting quite warm. Now when I hope it vertically, I don't have this issue at all. Even with my chill time between hits, it does not really effect the warm up time. After the first hit, the weed is really quite dry and subsequent hits are good with only a 5 second warmup.

I strongly suggest that folks with the Thermovape try taking a hit with the Thermovape held horizontally, like you would hit a pipe and then use the same warm up time and inhale with the it held vertically. In my experience, it is a huge difference.

This is life changing. I just got 2 huge milky hits sitting in my chair leaning over looking straight down at the ground eyes closed and pretending I'm drinking a milk shake.

 

[pecosthecat]

Really glad it is working out for you. I don't recall who was the first one to mention the "milkshake" draw, but they really hit it one the head.

This is life changing. I just got 2 huge milky hits sitting in my chair leaning over looking straight down at the ground eyes closed and pretending I'm drinking a milk shake.

 

[BudBuddy]

Got my package today, decided to wait until I was ready to really check everything out before I opened the package. Ordered the ThermoVape t1 along with the Revolution with adapter and a high resistance atomizer (really thought about it at $40 a pop but I couldn't pass up a portable hookah attachment lol). Got two free mouthpieces, white and black Delrin long versions, along with an extra battery container which was an unexpected but welcome surprise. TV, I do have a problem though, you forgot to pack in my Adapter Interface! So now I have two adapters along with my fresh made BHO that will have to wait till you can send me mine out. Order #1238

Anyhow I still cannot wait to try out the Rev and the Atomizer but I guess it is better that I spend a little alone time with the t1 and get a handle on the style I need to use it optimally.

My method I am very happy with:

- Loaded with .1 of some decent dispensary freebie bud. Fresh grind in my mini grinder I got with my mflb, like 5 turns.

- Used the batteries that came charged in the unit and primed it for about 10 seconds, wanted some nice warm vapor.

- Inhaled for about 20 seconds first I kind of sipped at it but just felt a gentle vapor so I pulled on it harder.

- That did it.

- Exhaled a cloud larger than I ever have on an iolite or mflb (not that it really matters, just saying I definitely got the goods from the bowl).

- Did this three more times, shaking the bowl still closed in between and skipping the weak inhale all together in favor of a steady draw.

- Pretty medicated right now and that's a surprise with the freebie gram (shout out to All Green Collective in Rosamond).

Likes:

Built like a tank but sexy like a sports car, you have to admire the craftsmanship, quality of parts and the just nice style. Way to not go all plain and instead combine form with function very well, crazy durable.

Great portability, fits on the side of my front pocket next to my wallet with none the wiser. Hand almost completely covers it when gripping, have to adjust your hand to turn it on though so it looks like your putting a black marker in your mouth, a really awesome black marker

Easy on/off, simple control, a flick of your thumb and its on. Only a slight metallic scrape noise when slid.

Dislikes:

Mouth piece wiggles and I cant stop messing with it. I worry that I will wear the plastics down over time. Long moth pieces are even looser than standard. (Fit tight on the Atomizer and Rev tho so that's good) I don't think there is a chance it will ever fall out though, o-rings all seem to be a nice tight fit.

Looseness of the battery compartment. I think I will play around with some tape or something to lessen the metallic rustling. A piece of any material placed on the length of a side and a small piece at the bottom should eliminate most the noise when shaking.

Bowl is pretty small, thought it would at least take what I could load into the mflb, had to leave a little in the grinder. Might have been able to pack it in but didn't want to pack it at all.

The screen is not great, the smallest of particles manage to make their way up into the mouthpiece, had to put my tongue in front of the air hole to catch the strays. Will definitely be putting a screen on the inside of the top most part of the bowl. TV team did some great tooling so a simple round screen should fit just fine.

Overall:

I love it honestly. I knew what I was getting and at that price so no really big surprises here. It will be replacing my mflb as the out and about vape. The added value that I really appreciate TV committing to is the modularity, once they send the interface adapter I will be basically having 2 new toys to play with and that is just fantastic.

9/10 Awesome but not perfect. Then again, nothing is. Fantastic product Thermo Essence technologies, you should all be very proud of your creation.

 

[darco]

You know, this has been bothering me. How come you're so far from what you want, vapor wise. I wonder how much of that is herb related, that is if you could load the top shelf stuff most of us use would you then be satisfied? For sure it's a factor, but I wonder how much of one?

Good luck in your efforts.

OF

Edit: Any idea how potent your local herb is? Top shelf is probably 16 to 18%, I suspect you're a fraction of that? A guy might use half a gram or maybe a whole one per day? I'm thinking that with your tolerance and grade of local herb your consumption is probably more? Volume I think is a key factor.

TIA

Well I have no way of measuring potency and can only give you relative comparisons. I use a measuring spoon to put in ground herbs into my vapes which takes about .1gm in it. One spoonful of herbs fills about 3/4ths of the TV bowl. That is also the same amount I use in my Solo (as I use screens to space out the herb from the holes in the solo, there is little room), and the same I used in my NO2 (broke down the 2nd time on me and is out for repairs ).

I Just got my friends NO2 home and actually fired up the TV, NO2 and the Solo with exactly equal amount of herbs in it and three of us hit the three devices simultaneously. There were only three of us, else I would get the VG into the test as well. I used the NO2, and my friends were using the TV and the Solo. The Solo beat the others in terms of vapor quantity, about 6 to 8 solid hits at the 4 to 5 setting. The NO2 vaped well for about 10 to 12 hits all of them with a substantial amount of vapor, visible. The TV user did about 8 hits with the TV out of which 2 had some sort of visible vapor. Same issue of over heating occurred where my friend dropped the device on the carpet cuz he couldn't take the heat. While he said that he was a little buzzed, he wanted more and went ahead and filled up the solo for another hit. He was using it perpendicular to the ground, and has been trying it out with me for the past 2 days so is aware of the controlled drawing techniques I use. The rest of us were satisfied with our hits and didn't feel like we needed more for the moment.

I disagree with the definition of recreational users, where all recreational users are into wasteful clouds. No mater if your purpose is medical or recreational, I am sure all of us want the most out of our herbs. Of course, quantity of herbs used and medication required is a matter of individual preference. I personally feel that blowing clouds out like smoke from a cigarette is quite wasteful too and something that amateurs would do to get that psychological satisfaction when shifting from smoking to vaping. I dont think veteran vapers like to blow out all the goodness that they could hold back into their lungs

Based on my above mentioned test, and couple of years of using various vaporizers, I also disagree with the fact that the amount of vapor is directly proportional to the quantity of herb in the bowl. If that was the case people would be discussing bowl sizes in the forums and not vaporizer efficiency. The fact that all of us here so interestedly participating in vaporizer discussions is to find a vaporizer that extracts the best of of our herbs. If you still dont believe me, try finding someone with an Herbal Aire and try vaping your TV's ABV in it. While I am not trying to compare a wall powered desktop vape to the TV, the point I am making is that there is such a thing as efficiency. And that efficiency should matter to both medical and recreational users alike. So branding the device as a medical device and shunning away recreational users is not going to help the Thermovape community or the company.

I would like to re-emphasize that this could be due to a defective coil or some kind of misalignment of the core in my TV. After all they are hand made and something could have gone wrong with my piece. I am in no way trying to beat your TV and your TV experience down and am far from being a hater. I am just looking for a way to make the TV work for me because of all the aspects of the TV that I love. Believe me if I had the results you guys have with your TVs, I would buy another one for my wife instantly and my friends would do the same. I have never been satisfied with the portability (or the lack of it) of the Solo and the unreliability of the NO2. The TV is just so close to being the perfect vape for me.

 

[Stone__Man]

@pecosthecat, PB88123

I very very much appreciate your posts and the great info within those words. *neals

and PB I did read it all, thank you as well (and thanks for the video gift too, I watched it 10 times ) I try to read everything, as there are some GOLDEN GEMS to be found in the words of others, and many are hidden and IF your antenna goes all the way up you may reveal those too
and I diligently try to NOT read TOO much into the words of others. many folks tend to "read things the way they want them to be" making tons of inferences, cause that is how they want to interpret language.

anywho . pecos I have no idea what you mean by rambling guilty as charged your honor
I have seen you point out the vertical orientation many times, seems they are starting to listen. from day one of seeing folks use TV, I wondered why on earth they held it out like they were playing a trombone. Many folks have seen radiator heating that are of a ... um certain age you wanna warm your hands you do it where along side it? hell no you put your hands OVER it, heat rises, and that fact being lost on some has tickled me. When camping would you set your cook pot beside the alcohol stove or on top of it to heat and produce vapor from the water within? simple logic

where are the holes in the bowl that the air channels though? they are not on the side, that should be clue #1 as to device's most efficient orientation to the ground. ok man, ok I'm done


anyone please correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is, the LB and the TV are almost opposites in optimum operation, LB, the light whispy sort thing, reason? because as its designed if you draw to hard/fast, you are lowering the temperature TOO much where the "stuff" is within the unit. so it rather forces you to take the easy draw. does that make sense?

and the TV the other way round. with lighter draws you don't seem to get much as with the TV, one has to draw harder to move that heat up faster as it has to first heat the bowl and THEN your "stuff", and your "air" is what does this? and its your draw alone that needs to get the stuff vaped to its fullest. basically maintaining the proper temps to release the goodies. make sense or am I'm STILL out in the woods ?

could this be why I see folks having such different results with the TV? as it may not be so much a battery thing but the difficulty of the TV in maintaining proper temp in the bowl?

could it be that the ones that have the heat build up issues are the same ones not drawing hard enough? think about that one for a minute will you . it boggles the mind , where's my Raydiator

could it be the heater cores aren't falling into a small enough "window" that may make one TV unit perform differently that another? batteries are batteries, and your either holding the button up or you are not, no variable there.

either the heater core, the user, or perhaps even a combo of the two.

and since I've recently mentioned batteries, the fact folks say 8 or 10 hits is about what the batteries will have the juice to , heat up the heater enough to produce good vapor. I know , I know lol I had to read it TWICE too

since this is what I consider undesirably short battery life and one of the biggest turn offs about the TV, bordering on deal breaker for my desired use of the TV or any vape. I charge batteries for an hour, give or take, and they will last me ONE average bowl? WOW! bummer man
and I guess I'm grasping at hairs here but here goes... If one were to only take 1 to 3, lets call them hits, and not use it till the same time the next day 1 to 3 hits and so on, would the batteries still only supply 8-10 hits? or would it be even less do to drain off?

and maybe, just maybe, Thermovape folks could even field, these questions of mine
this is why I ask, as its framework of sorts to the way I will use the product I eventually buy.
scenario:
I'm going camping this weekend a Friday night to Sunday night , be home for Monday morning weekend, like many folks enjoy.
I take :
my TV
the 3 sets of batteries (provided) fully charged
and referencing PB88123's wonderful info on bowl size, thx again Post #1551 just above. I have the .3 of vapor-ables with me, how would this pair with the 3 sets of batteries (as to the best of my understanding the given reference's) loading bowls half full with .05 of vapor-ables which could give 7 to 8 hits. How do I then best approach the usage of batteries to get the most out of them basically? as one can't plug a charger into a tree.

given an 8 to 10 hit average per battery set, and recommended to replace the used batteries for fresh ones after @ 10 hits . I want to load .05 bowls and that is 7-8 hits I assume, do I empty the spent bowl and replace the batteries too? or ,when ready, load up my second .05 bowl (hours apart from first bowl mind you) and try to get the 10 hits worth out of the first battery set, by taking 2 or 3 more hits? OR when load second bowl should I change to second set of batteries? and so on and so forth? and does the frequency of time between spread out indivual sessions, play a large role is battery usage, or any at all? i.e not smoking the whole bowl in a short time, but 1 or 2 hits per vaping "session" ?

so I understand a set of batteries deplete their charge very fast being 10 or so hits, how well do the provided batteries actually hold a partial charge, hell even a full charge for that matter? if I fully charged them how many days out into a trip can I expect my batteries to hold the same measured full charge?

my questions, again, are very important to me with particular keel to my usage patterns and expectations. not a 10 hit at a time guy, more a 1 or 2 hit kinda fella

I'd appreciate your time and service, as I have no intentions or resources to buy a herd of vapes. I'm looking for ONE vape that is small, portable, discrete, and uses my vapor-ables in a miserly way, and of course, the best value for my precious spending dollars., the one that best suits my usage patterns. and what drew me to consider your TV is you have the first 3 criteria down, but, this battery business is quite the stickler as the life per set seems quite poor in my eye's, and where better to attain this info than from the horse's mouth?

Laterz

 

[sessnet]

I found out that a small slice of folded-over paper, about as wide as half a pinky, will stop the batteries from rattling. That's what I use now.

So, no big pieces needed.

 

[OF]

could this be why I see folks having such different results with the TV? as it may not be so much a battery thing but the difficulty of the TV in maintaining proper temp in the bowl?

could it be that the ones that have the heat build up issues are the same ones not drawing hard enough? think about that one for a minute will you . it boggles the mind , where's my Raydiator

could it be the heater cores aren't falling into a small enough "window" that may make one TV unit perform differently that another? batteries are batteries, and your either holding the button up or you are not, no variable there.

either the heater core, the user, or perhaps even a combo of the two.

Interesting observation. Yes, with a few exceptions no doubt, lots of guy seem to really like the TV after they 'get the hang of it' or as some say 'get over the learning curve'. I seriously doubt that in any of those cases the heat core or any other part of the TV got any smarter or changed in any significant way. All the change was on the user end. There is, I think, a clue here......

I think your perception that the TV controls the temperature via the core is flawed. There is no real control there, and in fact the total heat output from the core probably drops by 20% or so as the battery is run down. The user simply compensates with the use.

As another poster put it so well, 'the TV really wants to teach you to use it', IMO you have to listen for that to happen. Best to not bring assumptions, opinions and other such to the party (if possible of course) but you should always remain open to the idea that they are part of the experiment (and the experimenter generally doesn't know).

I think we're getting to the point where we have so much collective experience with this product we need no longer guess as much, satisfying as that might have been at any of several levels.

"It's a poor Craftsman that blames his tools".

OF

 

[CarlosSpiceyWeiner]

I ordered a Thermovape T1 plus the Revolution Adapter and the elctroless plated aluminum. Just to see if there was a taste difference between the all metal mouthpiece and the Delrin. Total cost plus tax and shipping close to $350.00. Now by the time the year is out i would need to have replaced hopefully at the most 4 or maybe 3 heating cores at around $90.00 a pop. So the total yearly cost on new heater cores is going to be around $360.00. So basically i will be buying a new Thermovape and Revolution every year. Its a little crazy when you do the math and see what its going to cost yearly to maintain it. I am so on the fence about returning the order when it comes. Because once you use it you can't return it. I'm certain i can sell it for a cheaper price but i am tired of doing that and losing money.

 

[OF]

I ordered a Thermovape T1 plus the Revolution Adapter and the elctroless plated aluminum. Just to see if there was a taste difference between the all metal mouthpiece and the Delrin. Total cost plus tax and shipping close to $350.00. Now by the time the year is out i would need to have replaced hopefully at the most 4 or maybe 3 heating cores at around $90.00 a pop. So the total yearly cost on new heater cores is going to be around $360.00. So basically i will be buying a new Thermovape and Revolution every year. Its a little crazy when you do the math and see what its going to cost yearly to maintain it. I am so on the fence about returning the order when it comes. Because once you use it you can't return it. I'm certain i can sell it for a cheaper price but i am tired of doing that and losing money.

Sounds like you've bought into the 'TV knows there heat core is a weak point and will fail quickly and therefore only warranty it for 90 days to get more money from you' idea.....from a guy that's never used one?

Consider that the maker says that to date not a single heat core has failed in service. Also consider that if the conspiracy theory is right, there must be some sort of secret clock in there to know when 91 days has passed or they'll never sell you those 3 replacements a year (four is not possible in one year, right?). Otherwise they loose on both ends. Heavy users wear theirs out before 90 days and get free replacements for life, light users can't be counted on to need another all that soon.

Since you're so worried about it, I suggest you do return it. You're buying it to enjoy the ownership I assume, I doubt that'll be all that great if you're worried about it dieing on the next use. Perhaps in a year or so when more service history is known then you might be more confident in investing.....or feel very smart from having avoided all the problems guys who bought them had?

OF

 

[CarlosSpiceyWeiner]

Well first, what kind of failure is it? Is it going to be a catastrophic failure and just one day crap out? Or is it going to be a slow degrading until it finally stops working? Well if its a slow degrading process will the products i put into it still get up to the proper temperature to vaporize? Also how will i know when its is time to change one? And will be able to tell if its the batteries that have reached the end of there life span and not the core? So obviously everyone that has one will have to buy a $90 dollar heater core as a back up so one day we wont be stuck with a non usable device until a new one ships. Its not spending the extra money that bothers me and I'm sure it is for most people. Its more of the inconvenience of always having to have a spare heater core on hand.
Al lot of people say 'With heavy use." What is considered heavy use? I usually use my iolite 4 to 5 times a day. Is that heavy use? Trust me i want this to be as great as it can be.

 

[ThermoVape]

Well first, what kind of failure is it? Is it going to be a catastrophic failure and just one day crap out? Or is it going to be a slow degrading until it finally stops working? Well if its a slow degrading process will the products i put into it still get up to the proper temperature to vaporize? Also how will i know when its is time to change one? So obviously everyone that has one will have to buy a $90 dollar heater core as a back up so one day we wont be stuck with a non usable device until a new one ships. Its not spending the extra money that bothers me and I'm sure it is for most people. Its more of the inconvenience of always having to have a spare heater core on hand.
Al lot of people say 'With heavy use." What is considered heavy use? I usually use my iolite 4 to 5 times a day. Is that heavy use? Trust me i want this to be as great as it can be.

Good question. You will not see a slow decrease in performance because the resistance of the Heater Core stabilizes after oxidation, which means that the power output also stabilizes. OF is also correct that we have not had a single Heater Core failure.

 

[jambandphan03]

How much time went into the beta testing? Or should I say how long did you beta test before you released the product for sale...out of curiosity.

 

[ThermoVape]

How much time went into the beta testing? Or should I say how long did you beta test before you released the product for sale...out of curiosity.

It doesn't seem that long ago but this started back in November, 2010. yikes

 

[ThermoVape]

**edit**

How do I then best approach the usage of batteries to get the most out of them basically? as one can't plug a charger into a tree.

**edit**

Laterz

Use the force. Just kidding. The ThermoVape is adaptive. It has a wide range of operating temperatures and flow rates to accommodate for the long list of variables inherent to the industry. It's performance is user controlled and dependent. Prescribing one method for hypothetical scenarios is pointless because there are too many unknowns.

It is a lost art, the emoticon.

 

[hogleg]

Well first, what kind of failure is it? Is it going to be a catastrophic failure and just one day crap out? Or is it going to be a slow degrading until it finally stops working? Well if its a slow degrading process will the products i put into it still get up to the proper temperature to vaporize? Also how will i know when its is time to change one? So obviously everyone that has one will have to buy a $90 dollar heater core as a back up so one day we wont be stuck with a non usable device until a new one ships. Its not spending the extra money that bothers me and I'm sure it is for most people. Its more of the inconvenience of always having to have a spare heater core on hand.
Al lot of people say 'With heavy use." What is considered heavy use? I usually use my iolite 4 to 5 times a day. Is that heavy use? Trust me i want this to be as great as it can be.

Good question. You will not see a slow decrease in performance because the resistance of the Heater Core stabilizes after oxidation, which means that the power output also stabilizes. OF is also correct that we have not had a single Heater Core failure.

why not a lifetime warranty then

or at least a year

 

[PB88123]

Well first, what kind of failure is it? Is it going to be a catastrophic failure and just one day crap out? Or is it going to be a slow degrading until it finally stops working? Well if its a slow degrading process will the products i put into it still get up to the proper temperature to vaporize? Also how will i know when its is time to change one? So obviously everyone that has one will have to buy a $90 dollar heater core as a back up so one day we wont be stuck with a non usable device until a new one ships. Its not spending the extra money that bothers me and I'm sure it is for most people. Its more of the inconvenience of always having to have a spare heater core on hand.
Al lot of people say 'With heavy use." What is considered heavy use? I usually use my iolite 4 to 5 times a day. Is that heavy use? Trust me i want this to be as great as it can be.

Good question. You will not see a slow decrease in performance because the resistance of the Heater Core stabilizes after oxidation, which means that the power output also stabilizes. OF is also correct that we have not had a single Heater Core failure.

why not a lifetime warranty then

or at least a year

This has been answered before. If you look in this thread here is what TV had to say,

"We have no control over what people may put in the bowl, or how they will treat the device. That is why it has a 3 month warranty."

"If you just took 24 hits per day, and never abused the device. I do not think it would need to be replaced for years. The batteries would be the first to go, and the sell for around $10 a pair."

"What will wear the core out is abuse more then use. So if you put anything other then flowers into the Thermovape, (i.e. that is why we are making a separate unit made for oils and concentrates) then that could leak down into the core and shorten functional life.

If you use harsh chemicals or solvents to clean the core (we recommend boiling) that could reduce functional life.

If you use other types of batteries other then the 3.2V LiFePO then that may/may not reduce functional life.

If you blow compressed air on to the coil while it is hot, that will reduce life.

If you pour/douse/submerge the core (while it is hot) with water then that will reduce the functional life.

If you just run the device flat out, without actually drawing air through it, over and over, this may reduce functional life (the air flow through the device cools the coils and reduces thermal stress on the core).

Bottom line is that the core is very durable, we made it as tough as we possibly could. It is a solder free system, we use no cheap or weak connections, the wire is as tough as they come for this application, and we assemble each one by hand and test them, each and every one, before they go out the door. This makes for a tough, durable, long lasting vaporizer. I mean we push the limits when we test the device, you may have seen our videos, and the device keeps working.

We could have easily made a heating core that we new would fail in 1 month, 3 months, 6 months, etc. What we built is the toughest heating core we possibly could, period. The early ThermoVape's we gave to the beta testers (and we told them to try and break them) are all still running strong.

The ThermoVape should stand up to heavy use, it is made for heavy use, it loves it."

"The heavy daily use should NOT wear the core out. We use a proprietary USA made wire (we make our coils, ourselves by hand) that is much stronger then nichrome, and there are plug in desktop units that use nichrome for heating, and last for a very long time."

"Frequent cleaning will not reduce the life of the bowl. Plus it dries itself out when you turn it on."

"Our suggestion, just boil the heater core and the top cap. Everything clean with a good wipe down."

 

[hogleg]

most if not all of these issues can fall under misuse and could be screened by yourselves

 

[OF]

Well first, what kind of failure is it? Is it going to be a catastrophic failure and just one day crap out? Or is it going to be a slow degrading until it finally stops working? Well if its a slow degrading process will the products i put into it still get up to the proper temperature to vaporize? Also how will i know when its is time to change one? And will be able to tell if its the batteries that have reached the end of there life span and not the core? So obviously everyone that has one will have to buy a $90 dollar heater core as a back up so one day we wont be stuck with a non usable device until a new one ships.

OK, here's an insight for you that might help. There are two heaters in the core in parallel. They are standing on end as you look down into it. Such devices typically 'fail to open', that is the physically get a break in the wire (the failure is an open circuit). This will, however, only kill one side dropping the output to 15 watts. I'm not at all sure you couldn't limp along on that, although I'd not like to find out the hard way. But that's how a heat core failure would no doubt work, a sudden drop the half power and the 'glow' inside would be one sided. Batteries going out give shorter service life per charge generally, getting weak.

As long as the glow is normal, and 'hits per charge' what you're used to you're doing fine.

I'm not at all sure about "obviously everyone that has one will have to buy a $90 dollar heater core as a back up so one day we wont be stuck with a non usable device until a new one ships". For sure I'm not convinced that it won't limp along on 'one lung' OK (or than most guys have some alternate vapes around?). And I think saying "everyone will have to buy a $90 heater core....." is clearly not true. Without asking TV if they've ever even sold one, I have to say at least the huge majority of happy owners have not had to do this.

I think you're chasing a non existent issue. A true strawman of the first stripe. Fact is, so far, no such failures.

OF

 

[OF]

why not a lifetime warranty then

or at least a year

most if not all of these issues can fall under misuse and could be screened by yourselves

OK let me be blunt. I'm sure you'd never trash your core by misuse (say just a little hash for a test?). And I'm sure if you did you'd never consider 'saving 90 bucks' by say hooking it across your 12 Volt car battery for just a bit.....but some guys might?

And if you think you can "screen out abuse" in such cases, you've obviously never worked Customer Service. There's no such thing if it's in the stated period for devices like this. Even for the more typical manufacturers I've worked for, let alone the marginal ones. Field returns are a huge cost, arguing with the customer about abuse only makes it more so. Experienced manufacturers know this. Perhaps this insight helps some?

Please let me give you one more insight. If you plot lifespan of products like this (or preserved food, human beings or a lot of other things) on a graph with age along the bottom and 'number that died' at that age along the side you (almost) always get the same curve. It's high at the start (called 'infant mortality' in the field), then quickly drops to a low but slowly rising curve that may or may not have a peak at the 'old end'. The warranty is there to protect you from infant failures. Doesn't matter if you're talking about new cars or newborn babies. Quite a few will have problems from the dealer (or never make it home from the hospital or die in the first year or so). Those that survive this 'shake down' are good to go. Death rates amongst kids in grade school and two year old cars otherwise doing well are rare. Run that out to 100,000 miles or say 70 years old for humans and the rate will go up. This means, if it's scaled right (and I think it is) if your core did just fine for the first few weeks (let alone months) it's probably going to go many months or years. It's like TV sets.

OF

OF

 

[hogleg]

It seems this can go round and round the small percentage that might break is an even smaller percentage of rough use so as you said if your core did just fine for the first few weeks (let alone months) it's probably going to go many months or years. Coverage for a year does not seem out of line Ive seen the test videos. Its just a very expensive portable

 

[PB88123]

1. and the TV the other way round. with lighter draws you don't seem to get much as with the TV, one has to draw harder to move that heat up faster as it has to first heat the bowl and THEN your "stuff", and your "air" is what does this? and its your draw alone that needs to get the stuff vaped to its fullest. basically maintaining the proper temps to release the goodies. make sense or am I'm STILL out in the woods ?

2. could it be the heater cores aren't falling into a small enough "window" that may make one TV unit perform differently that another? batteries are batteries, and your either holding the button up or you are not, no variable there.

either the heater core, the user, or perhaps even a combo of the two.

3. since this is what I consider undesirably short battery life and one of the biggest turn offs about the TV, bordering on deal breaker for my desired use of the TV or any vape. I charge batteries for an hour, give or take, and they will last me ONE average bowl? WOW! bummer man
and I guess I'm grasping at hairs here but here goes... If one were to only take 1 to 3, lets call them hits, and not use it till the same time the next day 1 to 3 hits and so on, would the batteries still only supply 8-10 hits? or would it be even less do to drain off?

4. and maybe, just maybe, Thermovape folks could even field, these questions of mine
this is why I ask, as its framework of sorts to the way I will use the product I eventually buy.
scenario:
I'm going camping this weekend a Friday night to Sunday night , be home for Monday morning weekend, like many folks enjoy.
I take :
my TV
the 3 sets of batteries (provided) fully charged
and referencing PB88123's wonderful info on bowl size, thx again Post #1551 just above. I have the .3 of vapor-ables with me, how would this pair with the 3 sets of batteries (as to the best of my understanding the given reference's) loading bowls half full with .05 of vapor-ables which could give 7 to 8 hits. How do I then best approach the usage of batteries to get the most out of them basically? as one can't plug a charger into a tree.

5. given an 8 to 10 hit average per battery set, and recommended to replace the used batteries for fresh ones after @ 10 hits . I want to load .05 bowls and that is 7-8 hits I assume, do I empty the spent bowl and replace the batteries too? or ,when ready, load up my second .05 bowl (hours apart from first bowl mind you) and try to get the 10 hits worth out of the first battery set, by taking 2 or 3 more hits? OR when load second bowl should I change to second set of batteries? and so on and so forth? and does the frequency of time between spread out indivual sessions, play a large role is battery usage, or any at all? i.e not smoking the whole bowl in a short time, but 1 or 2 hits per vaping "session" ?

6. so I understand a set of batteries deplete their charge very fast being 10 or so hits, how well do the provided batteries actually hold a partial charge, hell even a full charge for that matter? if I fully charged them how many days out into a trip can I expect my batteries to hold the same measured full charge?

1. That makes sense to me.

2. TV said this about the heating core not centered, "The Heater Cores are hand assembled. Each one is slightly different, unique, like a fingerprint. The bottom line is that the slight variations in the orientations of the coils is natural and inconsequential in terms of performance. Vape on!" So as long as it turns on you are good to go.

3. Short battery life because the TV is a powerful device. Thankfully we can buy more batteries and easily put them in. If you take 1-2 hits everyday you could hit the same bowl 4-5 days. The batteries won't drain if you don't use it.

4. If you are going camping and can only bring 6 batteries. Everyone will have a different answer but I would bring 1g and change out the bowl after 4-5 hits so I always hit a green bowl. That way I get 8+ great hits off a battery set. That means 24-30 good green hits which means 6-7 sessions for me. I would buy more batteries before I go camping though.

5. You can change the batteries out after 8 hits and then when you get 8 hits out of all the batteries you can put them back in and use the rest of the juice. Or you can use all the juice in the batteries at once. I usually have a ton of batteries or a charger near by so I don't need to run my batteries dead. I do not know if taking 5 hits in a row uses more or less battery then if you wait 10 minutes in-between hits. If it is a cold start it might take more juice getting up to temperature when taking 5 hits in a row it is already at a high temperature so the batteries don't need to work as hard?

6. The batteries will hold a partial charge. It was talked about earlier if you charge them up they will stay that way for a month or more. So no worries about the battery losing power just sitting there.

 

[OF]

It seems this can go round and round the small percentage that might break is an even smaller percentage of rough use so as you said if your core did just fine for the first few weeks (let alone months) it's probably going to go many months or years. Coverage for a year does not seem out of line Ive seen the test videos. Its just a very expensive portable

I think you're only hearing what you want to hear (not at all uncommon, of course). What you suggest really gives you very little practical protection, but exposes the maker to much greater risks. Please read my first paragraph above again? Thanks.

The maker would have to factor in 'XX% free heat cores' in their business plan, and in true capitalist fashion will 'pass those costs on to the consumer at the pumps'. Not really fair, IMO, but that's what happens. Hey, 'the industry' runs this way, their business decisions are very much mainstream. It might not seem 'out of line' to do what you suggest to you, but my experience tells me otherwise. I wouldn't suggest it to my boss if I worked there under these conditions.

And yes, I agree, it's more expensive than many others which may be part of the issue here. But has been pointed out there are other successful vapes out there in the same price range with the same (or lesser) guaranty on their heaters. IMO, that's the 'smart money' talking.

OF

 

[hogleg]

well my experience has taught me differently if a product is so strong then there should be very little breakage and you can and would want to screen breakage to find out how and why things happen and your exaple of a car bttery would easily be identified.
just becasuse my opinion differs from yours does not mean I dont have any experience you shouldnt be so quick to talk down to people even though you do it on the sly