scottfree
Active Member
What about FC2000 Ceramic wick or BD13?
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Discontinued Thermovape Cera
- Thread starter SameOldTim
- Start date
What about FC2000 Ceramic wick or BD13?
Bob Loblaw
Astralnaut
the persei can handle the cera, which is why it is doing so w/ the adapter OF made me.
no one has a CORE yet so OF couldn't know anything about it.
it wouldn't be a switch, just a power source, i feel like it would be on all the time. if it fit.
which is highly suspect as i doubt the endcap for the persei fits the base of the cera, but i don't have one of those, so i can't say for sure, or even if that would tell you much.
my worthless two cents
nopartofme
Over the falls, in a barrel
It might work, but I wouldn't call it a rebuildable Cera!
Well this thing is brand new, it hasn't even shipped yet. Maybe OF has beta tested it, but I'm assuming he hasn't tried it. Also since the Persei seems capable of running the Cera (as seen in Loblaw's pic that I posted), and this is a Persei power supply, the pieces seem to fit. Some specs were posted a few days ago saying it's rated for 5 amp output which I think I recall being a "safe" current rating in regards to switches… My knowledge of these things is limited so I could be reading things incorrectly.
Here's the nitty gritty:
scottfree
Active Member
PhotoRider
Diagnosed with level 11 G.A.S.
The Cera is 3/8-24 fine thread, the Persei and all Omicron's are 601 aka different and smaller. You can adapt it like OF did using a 601 adapter (not sure but a 601-510n i think and a 3/8-24 nut (OF used brass). Then figure out a center pin. Here you could just use the core insert if long enough. Can be done, but you would need everything in hand...
OF
Well-Known Member
the persei can handle the cera, which is why it is doing so w/ the adapter OF made me.
no one has a CORE yet so OF couldn't know anything about it.
it wouldn't be a switch, just a power source, i feel like it would be on all the time. if it fit.
which is highly suspect as i doubt the endcap for the persei fits the base of the cera, but i don't have one of those, so i can't say for sure, or even if that would tell you much.
my worthless two cents
Yes, Bob's right again, you can use an adapter on your Persei to run Cera carts on batteries or 'Core power'.
Driving the basic Cera with a mains powered supply is no big deal, I did in a while back and posted about it here. Perhaps folks will remember?
One of the issues is, of course, doing this removes the switch so there's no way to control the heating short of turning the supply on and off. Note the switch on the first photo? That's what it does.
The current design gets around this issue in kind of a fun way (at least IMO):
That's the control switch in the velcro band, under your thumb. Because it's 'pilot duty' (doesn't carry full power, but rather controls the supply like the MFLB PA) there's little restrictions on the switch. Thousands of models will work fine. The velcro band turns out to be pretty neat in itself. It's put on the narrow part and pushed up to tighten. It provides a nice insulated (cool) place to hang onto when the Cera is doing hard work. No, it's not latching (although it easily could be), nor do I have any intent to make it so, I too just don't think that's a safe thing to have around in the real world. Being as it's very handy (under your thumb) and takes trivial pressure (it's a keyboard switch.....) I just don't see a need.
BTW this uses the same scheme as before to bypass any switch or strap issues. All you nee to make vapor is a working core and a Cera tube with the screwplate installed.
Also, BTW, the regulator is in the insert. You supply 6 to 12 VDC (from a battery pack, wall supply or car cord) and you're good to go.
Fun stuff.
OF
nopartofme
Over the falls, in a barrel
Alright, OF, you done inspired me. I'm gonna get off my butt and give that a go, and I've never put together any electronics before. Better watch my toes, who knows what I'll learn in the process…
Only big thing I see missing in your design is a dimmer to adjust the power delivered. Not an easy addition, I assume?
Looks like the answer is no, and it seems the Core wouldn't be cost effective for our usage anyways, judging by the way OF is making 'no big deal' out of his PA…
Only big thing I see missing in your design is a dimmer to adjust the power delivered. Not an easy addition, I assume?
I was curious about the threading at the other end, thinking about whether a Cera could utilize the Core without also using a Persei.
Looks like the answer is no, and it seems the Core wouldn't be cost effective for our usage anyways, judging by the way OF is making 'no big deal' out of his PA…
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OF
Well-Known Member
No. The first one has such an adjustment, that's it just to the left of the small LED in the power supply. Kevin's been using it for the last 6 months or so on a regular basis, last report I had from him is he wasn't adjusting it, just putting lots of oil through his EO cart.
That design is basically what the Core does, although this one also bypasses the problematic switch and ground strap. It has the disadvantage of needing a fairly heavy, short cable to the unit to control losses. As I assume Core will, unless it uses remote sensing (which I doubt).
While the second one was adjustable by design (under a volt to 5.5 IIRC), the design goal called for 3.6 fixed at the terminals.....which is what I did. I took the adjustment out after tuning it to the requested value. IMO it works fine that way.
The first design is not very challenging at all, in fact I used a wooden dowel out of whimsey. And nick named it 'the Fred Flintstone PA'. The second, with it's switching regulator in the head, is not a newbie project I think.
OF
Never hold your Cera and smartphone together. I can't prove it but I feel like the Cera cracked my Galaxy S4 screen .
I think they were next to each other in my car as I drove, Cera must have rolled into it or something.
Sage words. My cera tipped over, fell on my tablet and put a minor crack in it. I learned my lesson about having fragile items near my beastly cera. I still love her.
Thermo Essence Technologies does not recommend using an ultra-sonic cleaner UNLESS you are cleaning the core prior to sending the device in for service. TET will be updating the support section of their website with cleaning best practices in the next few days. This should put an end to what is recommended and the methods that are “do at your own risk” thus voiding the warranty
PhotoRider
Diagnosed with level 11 G.A.S.
Edit: So playing around with this using the Cera Eo and teh SR-71. Found a large different between the two operation. The Cera Eo stays the same resitance as it heats. At 3.6V it continuously draws 5A. The AR-71 changes the resistance as it heats and the correct direction - higher in value. If it went lower - thermal runaway... The initial current is the standard 7.4V/1.5 ohms, but as the rod heats it goes up in value and the current drops to around 2.5A. This make it more efficient. Bottom-line as it heats it needs less power to stay at teh same temp. The initial heatup like a motor inrush take the most power, but as it heats it needs less and less to stay there.
This I believe is the difference in heater design. The Cera is wire (I believe and it seems to respond that way), the SR-71 heater is ceramic.
On the subject of alternate power supplies fo the Cera - here is the solution I am working on for home. I started this before the Core was available, but I will continue... Its only a proto unit to experiment with the technology. I will redo into a more rebust unit.
First the power supply. I off the shelve linear lab supply, 35V/10A fully adjustable in voltage and current limit. Whatever hits first the voltage you set or current. For example if you set the voltage at 3V and max 1A. The load is 1.5 ohm. Well 1A * 1.5 ohm = 1.5V so the supply limits the voltage to 1.5V to only allow 1A flow. Which is in control is on the face either a CC or CV light (CV = controlled by voltage value) CC is current).
Not bad for less than $120 shipped.
OK the proto base unit. No switch yet. Just figuring out the contruction and center pin. The Cera is a 3/8-24 fine thread so I bought a tap bit. I used 3/8" brass plate stock so it drills easy. I used high temp molecular plastic inbetween and its thick to allow for the center pin spring on the proto. Next version will be thinner. The bottom plate is pos, top neg. It accepts both a Cera and a 510 threaded cart (standard E-go). I went that way because I can use a 510-601 adapter so I have all three. Also the two were placed close - why so I can not put two carts of different voltages aka a Cera and a SR-71. They will not fit together. Don't want to screw up late at night...
Here is the base unit:
Now setup to the power supply. Notice there is about a 100mV drop in my small ga leads. Going to use 12ga on final unit... Drawing 5A at 3.6V here and in voltage control.
Here is the SR-71 and measuring 1.6 ohms...
finally the switch I will use. 28V/5A (wish it was more than 5A, so I will keep searching for a better one). Its a momentary (on) - off - (on). Normally off and throws up and down allowing two momentary path selections. Final unit will have a separate connections to the 510 and Cera sockets.
The final unit will be separate blocks and allow the 510 to adjust angle for the SR-71 requirements. I will install the blocks in bigger plastic blocks with the switch and banana jacks...
I will let you know how it ends.
Full investment so far $160. $120 PS, $30 parts, $10 tap and 4 hours in shop. Not bad and have the supplies for a final unit (maybe another w/o supply...)
This I believe is the difference in heater design. The Cera is wire (I believe and it seems to respond that way), the SR-71 heater is ceramic.
On the subject of alternate power supplies fo the Cera - here is the solution I am working on for home. I started this before the Core was available, but I will continue... Its only a proto unit to experiment with the technology. I will redo into a more rebust unit.
First the power supply. I off the shelve linear lab supply, 35V/10A fully adjustable in voltage and current limit. Whatever hits first the voltage you set or current. For example if you set the voltage at 3V and max 1A. The load is 1.5 ohm. Well 1A * 1.5 ohm = 1.5V so the supply limits the voltage to 1.5V to only allow 1A flow. Which is in control is on the face either a CC or CV light (CV = controlled by voltage value) CC is current).
Not bad for less than $120 shipped.
Here is the base unit:
Now setup to the power supply. Notice there is about a 100mV drop in my small ga leads. Going to use 12ga on final unit... Drawing 5A at 3.6V here and in voltage control.
Here is the SR-71 and measuring 1.6 ohms...
finally the switch I will use. 28V/5A (wish it was more than 5A, so I will keep searching for a better one). Its a momentary (on) - off - (on). Normally off and throws up and down allowing two momentary path selections. Final unit will have a separate connections to the 510 and Cera sockets.
The final unit will be separate blocks and allow the 510 to adjust angle for the SR-71 requirements. I will install the blocks in bigger plastic blocks with the switch and banana jacks...
I will let you know how it ends.
Full investment so far $160. $120 PS, $30 parts, $10 tap and 4 hours in shop. Not bad and have the supplies for a final unit (maybe another w/o supply...)
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I sure hope they get the "official" cleaning procedures up soon for every bodies sake.
I also have my standards, one of them is 3 strikes and you are out. I have sent a core in 2 times and it has come back exactly as it was sent in. I am hesitant to send it a 3rd time because of my standards and from my point of view it is better to destroy the core so that it demands a complete rebuild even if that voids my warrenty and I have to pay for the rebuild.
On another note my experience with 3 EO cores is that 30g is about when a core shows its age. IMO the ceramic has absorbed to many containments that can not be cleaned out anymore. I have the same problem with health stones, eventually they just need replacing to get that new car smell (or taste).
An ultra sonic cleaner does not change this for health stones or for EO cores so I do not recommend using one for routine cleaning since it has the ability to do more harm then good and does not rejuvenate a core to new like.
My new plan is this, buy one more core, get my faulty one rebuilt and then keep two in rotation for 30g of oil each while sending in two to be rebuilt with new ceramic and cleaned out. I don't think this plan falls under warrenty but I am also not going to buy 5 cores per year, but is the only way I know of so far that will give me what I want.
PhotoRider
Diagnosed with level 11 G.A.S.
Make sure I understand...
you are saying after 30g's through a single core is when it shows its age OR for 3 cores aka 10g/core.
Assuming the former and you need 5 cores per year - that is 150g/year. That is close to 1/2g a day through a Cera, everyday. At that rate I would almost except the rebuilt cost. The ratio of material cost (oil) verses rebuild cost is really not that bad. Cost of doing business in a way.
It is the former, thanks for doing the math for me, lol, still half the amount i used to dab a day.
I have no problem paying for the rebuilds, its rather TET has not rebuilt the core I sent in twice already with a request to rebuild and fix airflow. TET needs to get on top of this end of the EO cores or they will loose business from people like me.
On a positive note the Cera, even when not working like new is still my favorite way of using oil. Dabs are a nice change up once in awhile but they kill my throat and lungs if do them to much. Cera EO has no such side effects for me. Even not working like new I can get clear, amazing flavor but it fades rapidly and I I have to soak out oil to get load fresh to get a flavorful hit multiple times a day, so it still works great after 30g of oil through a single core just not like new.
Health Stones also loose their newness after X amount of oil and I have found replacing them to be the best means to not get frustrated with poor flavor.
I have nothing but good things to say about the cera! It works amazingly well, except when i try and use the 2250 mah batteries but thats not TVs fault
Soflo
Only birdshit and fools
here is what happened to my cera last night, I was having to stretch the spring fairly often, now I realize it was a bad connection all along
and there is definatly some type of glue holding it together, imho should have been set screws like the top threaded piece.
mod note: Please avoid back-to-back posts, use Edit instead. Two posts merged.
and there is definatly some type of glue holding it together, imho should have been set screws like the top threaded piece.
mod note: Please avoid back-to-back posts, use Edit instead. Two posts merged.
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PhotoRider
Diagnosed with level 11 G.A.S.
Understood. Have not sent one in for rebuild other than a real new one I messed up. Probably have not put that much in my 3 carts so I will see.
If you pay for a rebuild and it doesn't work as new, well why rebuild... I agree with you on your points and the output.
Healthstones - well they waste a lot of oil. Even if you put a a dab on, I still get waste down the sides. I can reclaim, but... Taste is so-so for mine. A lot harder to control the taste verses the Eo or Persei for me. Probably me. The first hit is great, but don't do no more until you add oil because the 2nd taste bad...
OF
Well-Known Member
There's epoxy holding the ring in that failed (there are 3 types used over time IIRC). If the glue fails the connection follows. The failure is the glue here.
Last I asked, the only in service failure there was dropped. Did yours have a spill? Otherwise, it's easily put right....the bummer being it needs to go to the shop.
Good luck.
OF
Soflo
Only birdshit and fools
OF, why does it need to go back to the shop?
you can clearly see all they did was just align the magic marker on the glued piece to the ground strip and press it in.
I cleaned the damn glue off of it, and pushed it back together and its working great. I'm sure I can put some epoxy on there if it comes off again. some things aren't rocket surgery
you can clearly see all they did was just align the magic marker on the glued piece to the ground strip and press it in.
I cleaned the damn glue off of it, and pushed it back together and its working great. I'm sure I can put some epoxy on there if it comes off again. some things aren't rocket surgery
OF
Well-Known Member
OF, why does it need to go back to the shop?
you can clearly see all they did was just align the magic marker on the glued piece to the ground strip and press it in.
I cleaned the damn glue off of it, and pushed it back together and its working great. I'm sure I can put some epoxy on there if it comes off again. some things aren't rocket surgery
No, I can't see that, sorry. What I know is the strap should be welded to carry the four amps plus of current we want. It is not just pressed into place. The strap is welded on before it's installed, you tore it loose, look the broken end of it still welded to the ring your first photo. Right where the flash line is and match it to the broken strap in the background it used to be part of.
You didn't answer my question about being dropped sometime, is that perhaps how the glue failed?
It's yours to do what you want with it, but without glue to hold it in (like it was originally) it's going to come back out. And without a proper, solid electrical connection you'll surely develop ground strap problems like so many others. It was welded originally for a good reason.
Your call. Good luck with it.
OF
Soflo
Only birdshit and fools
its funny you say I tore it loose, I am of a different opinion.
you can see the copper that covers the leads is torn"backwards" meaning it was torn when originally installed. this is how it came apart. I didn't pull the copper back to expose the leads. I'm thinking the tolerance between the press in cap and the body isn't big enough for the the cap and strap, so when it gets "pressed in and glued at the factory" it also tears the strap. since the strap still touches the conductor current still flows.
you can see the copper that covers the leads is torn"backwards" meaning it was torn when originally installed. this is how it came apart. I didn't pull the copper back to expose the leads. I'm thinking the tolerance between the press in cap and the body isn't big enough for the the cap and strap, so when it gets "pressed in and glued at the factory" it also tears the strap. since the strap still touches the conductor current still flows.
OF
Well-Known Member
Think what you want, that looks like a spot weld to me. Actually a series of pairs of them IIRC. What do you suppose is keeping the broken part attached to the ring?
Simply touching will not pass the current we need without overheating locally. Them's the rules.
If you look back there's a pile of discussion on those welds. They're done 'out of house' by laser (necessary for the Ti version as I understand).
I also have an unfair advantage here, I've seen the rings with the strips welded on and the screw plate welded to the other end before assembly. I also watched as the preweld versions were soldered in place after assembly.
That ring (which is what I think you mean by "press in cap") is not a press fit. The ceramic would shatter when the SS expanded under heat if it was. It counts on the glue to retain it. I've watched that part happen too. How do you think the glue got there? And why?
You still haven't answered, any chance a drop broke the glue bond? AFAIK that's the only other case of that glue joint failing.
Like I said, it's yours to do with as you wish. I'm just offering some insight and experience here, you're free to ignore it but unless you have something more than guesses to back up how it's made you might reconsider? Or ask them?
Your call.
OF
Cool. Provided you're willing to treat the possibly exposed power cord wiring with respect (not to electrocute yourself or loved ones....) this should be a good project to 'get your feet wet' as it were.....not that you should mess with electricity with wet feet, of course.
It took some head scratching to remember where I got the basic supply. Here ya go, if you're serious, I'd start by ordering one of my very own:
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail...=sGAEpiMZZMsPs3th5F8koAOKs67AukcK6j46wi9sv20=
You should take a careful look at the first two photos, they'll show you what you're up against. Ability to solder would be very nice, but we can probably get by without it at least for a while. You'll need some modest woodworking skills (drill a few holes in the dowel, saw it off and do a bit of sanding) too, no big deal, nothing fancy. You'll also need a couple hardware store springs and a screw for the center contact.
If you (or anyone else) decides to go for it and need some help, don't be shy about sending a PM.
Regards,
OF
mod note: Please avoid back-to-back posts, use Edit instead. Two posts merged.
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PhotoRider
Diagnosed with level 11 G.A.S.
OF, I am continually impressed with your offers to help the membership and your ability to find cost effective material - wow a $17 supply...