Discontinued Thermovape Cera

[tedthehed]

...is that so? I'm a newb so I don't know the popular scuttlebut around here, but that has not been my experience.
I will concentrate more on my final toke of concentrate, and see if I can detect the flavor change.
Who says this is so?
Has anyone measured the temperature down there to see if it is possible, ie. over 450F ?

 

[Chill Dude]

...is that so? I'm a newb so I don't know the popular scuttlebut around here, but that has not been my experience.
I will concentrate more on my final toke of concentrate, and see if I can detect the flavor change.
Who says this is so

OF says this is so(check post 5700 on the previous page. OF is a long time respected member with over 9,000 posts and has a PHD in Vapeology......

 

[tedthehed]

...oh, I see who he is..but even so, the truth stands alone.
Does any one else taste the difference?

I have a newb question; I'm having trouble getting 'good hits,.' and clouds of vapor on the loose leaf
hereinafter referred to as LL ... I tried finely shredded in the sharpstone, and even more finely shredded through a strainer,
is the trick to dry it out really well first? and they say to pack it firmly, what do you say?

...btw I follow all the instructions, I think, ie. make sure it's glowing red before loading..
maybe it's the lighting???

mod note: Please avoid back-to-back posts, use Edit instead. Two posts merged.

 

[OF]

Also, when it's time to reload, what's the effect of loading a different concentrate on top of .2g still remaining in the cart? Will the product you load on top take over the flavor and potency, or do they both get mixed together like an oil salad?? IDK.

I've had good luck with this. Run the first oil down fairly low (to where productions is down but still going OK), then load say a 1/3 of a gram of the new stuff on top. The new comes off first but when you get back down to .2 or so sometimes you start picking up the earlier flavor, especially if it was strong the second one not so.

My advice is to give it a try, I think you'll be happy with the results.

Because if you go below .2 g or so on the Cera EO you will burn your oil. Not a good thing....

I'm not sure it's a given, but it's possible and you will do it if you push too hard. You can always clean it out and start over, but the best plan is to avoid it IMO. Just be sure you top up before you get tempted to try to 'cook the stuff out of the corners'.

...btw I follow all the instructions, I think, ie. make sure it's glowing red before loading..
maybe it's the lighting???

This part I'm not so sure of. I don't recall ever hearing those instructions, indeed it's almost impossible to see any glow though the top plates once they foul up some.

IMO you want as little heat as possible in loading. Shatters and the like can need some to get melted in well enough, but oils and waxes should be coaxed in as gently as possible IMO. Glowing metal can burn oil. Once the oil is safely absorbed into the ceramic pores you can run the heat up some.

OF

 

[tedthehed]

...oops...sorry, a little confusion there ... I was not talking about the oil/wax cart. , but the loose leaf cart...? Cera says you heat it till you see the glow through little holes in ceramic...

 

[Chill Dude]

I've had good luck with this. Run the first oil down fairly low (to where productions is down but still going OK), then load say a 1/3 of a gram of the new stuff on top. The new comes off first but when you get back down to .2 or so sometimes you start picking up the earlier flavor, especially if it was strong the second one not so.

My advice is to give it a try, I think you'll be happy with the results.

OF

Will do, I will try it that way. However, I think I'm going to order an extra EO cart so I can rotate two different concentrates. I think it would be nice to change up flavors. Also, with two carts, I can clean one while the other one is still going strong. How about you OF, do you keep two or three carts loaded with different product and rotate them? IDK, it just seems practical to me.

I don't know much about concentrate storage life inside those carts. Let's say you left some oil unused in a cart for say 4 weeks. Would it loose potency or deteriorate in flavor or anything? Thanks OF

 

[tedthehed]

...please pardon my newbieness, but by "eo" are we talking the e-essence-cig cart. or the wax/oil cart.? the former has 3 air grooves, the latter has four, among other differences...
I assume you mean the wax one..

There are three carts to distinguish among as we know.

 

[Chill Dude]

...please pardon my newbieness, but by "eo" are we talking the e-essence-cig cart. or the wax/oil cart.? the former has 3 air grooves, the latter has four, among other differences...
I assume you mean the wax one..

There are three carts to distinguish among as we know.

The EO cart (essential oil) is for concentrates such as wax, honey oil, shatter, nectar....the EL cart is for liquid e-cig formulations. LL = loose leaf

 

[tedthehed]

yes, clear. thanks. so, what about the smooth moisturizer? how long to soak before it's soaked? instructions say " hold under running water" but no hint if you're filling a little hidden water chamber or the pores of the ceramic or for how long? huh?
meantime I leave it soaking when not in use..

also, TET says the heating wire is "fully insulated" so there should be no contact with oil, right?

 

[OF]

How about you OF, do you keep two or three carts loaded with different product and rotate them? IDK, it just seems practical to me.

I don't know much about concentrate storage life inside those carts. Let's say you left some oil unused in a cart for say 4 weeks. Would it loose potency or deteriorate in flavor or anything? Thanks OF

In fact I do have two EO carts in use with different oils. Although at one point I used to shift often, not so much any more. I tend to keep one it pretty much all the time.

I haven't noticed any degradation in oil left in Cera carts. Or Omicrons or Revolution/DART for that matter. Some might, but I haven't.

Cera says you heat it till you see the glow through little holes in ceramic...

I don't recall reading that, some might load the bowl hot, but I do cold, not fond of burning my fingers in addition to seeing no advantage at all, it's convection and heats very fast. Unlike EO, heat is not part of LL loading IMO.

what about the smooth moisturizer? how long to soak before it's soaked? instructions say " hold under running water" but no hint if you're filling a little hidden water chamber or the pores of the ceramic or for how long? huh?
meantime I leave it soaking when not in use..

also, TET says the heating wire is "fully insulated" so there should be no contact with oil, right?

A few seconds is long enough to fill the pores in the reservoir ring. I run mine under the sink a few seconds and shake off what will shake off and put it in use. It doesn't hold much, so replenishing it often is a good plan IMO.

Again, I don't recall reading anything about insulated wires, it's definitely a bare wire as wound (I've done that part). Once loaded the coil and oil don't touch but that's not the case in loading. Oil will normally contact the coil but is driven off when you take it up to working temperature the first time. If you have leaking it could also end up pooling on the cold end of the coil lead at the bottom too I think.

OF

 

[tedthehed]

thanks for the soaking info, to fill the "ring" it is necessary to submerge the metal part too??

again, the glowing holes is for the loose leaf cart , perhaps you are not familiar with it..it glows before the chamber gets too hot.

here's the info from website re insulated wires.:

"• Efficient proprietary Iron alloy wire coiled around a Stabilized Ceramic core
• Completely insulated Stabilized Ceramic core "


http://store.nexternal.com/thermovape/cera-essential-oilwax-cartridge-p33.aspx

...insulated, that's what it said.

 

[OF]

thanks for the soaking info, to fill the "ring" it is necessary to submerge the metal part too??

again, the glowing holes is for the loose leaf cart , perhaps you are not familiar with it..it glows before the chamber gets too hot.

here's the info from website re insulated wires.:

"• Efficient proprietary Iron alloy wire coiled around a Stabilized Ceramic core
• Completely insulated Stabilized Ceramic core "

You're welcome. While not necessary (you can drip water in the end if you want), it's easiest to just flood the area and shake out the loose water.

Yes, I know the LL cart (having been a Beta Tester on Cera.....) what I don't follow is why you'd routinely do this. You might occasionally watch to understand the timing, but to see it the bowl has to be empty meaning you can't make vapor without cooling it off and loading. In normal use you never watch this (mostly because you can't). In the '3 Step Process' you take Step 1 on faith (and of course experience).

Thanks for the source, I believe you're confused on the insulated wires thing. There are two statements about cores, both true but not related. The first talks abut the wire being an Iron alloy, the second talks about the core being insulated. The section you quote contains five total points, all about the cores. The insulation being talked about is thermal insulation, not electrical. It does not say "insulated wire". The closest we get to insulated wire in Cera is the foil strap glued to the inside wall of the tube.

OF

 

[tedthehed]

curiouser and curiouser...I ll search again for the 'heat LL until it glows' advice.. and post it later... maybe it was a utube video..

anyway, you really don't have to let it cool before you load the LL cart.. and yes I think the process is to see if it glows within 20 seconds or something like that..and to start the heating up process, when starting from cold..

..well what is the core insulated from? I think it means there is ceramic between the wire and the oil..of course it must be electrically insulated from fingers , oil, other metal parts, too.

what/where is three step process?

 

[OF]

curiouser and curiouser...I ll search again for the 'heat LL until it glows' advice.. and post it later... maybe it was a utube video..

anyway, you really don't have to let it cool before you load the LL cart.. and yes I think the process is to see if it glows within 20 seconds or something like that..and to start the heating up process, when starting from cold..

..well what is the core insulated from? I think it means there is ceramic between the wire and the oil..of course it must be electrically insulated from fingers , oil, other metal parts, too.

what/where is three step process?

By all means do look for the advice, please post it if you find it. Chances are about even I wrote It, if it reads the way you relate I'll see if I can get it corrected?

It cools from saturation in a few seconds, how fast can you load? Again, this is a convection vape that depends on the core being saturated at about 1700F to work normally. That takes many seconds to establish and decays even faster. Heating it up when there's no load and letting it cool again is simply wasting battery power (fortunately Cera has plenty to spare, in T1 this could mean not finishing the load....).

Again, it's thermally insulted from the rest of the world. NOT electrically. Two different kinds of insulation I think you're confusing? There are five statements about cores, one mentions the wire, a different one covers insulation. Think what you want, I've seen EO cores made (even tried to make a few without success, it's not at all an easy skill). It uses basically the same heater as the LL core (different number of turns, same wire), I've made those (they're easier, no cores to fit), exactly the same wire from the only spool they have of that size. There is no electrical insulation anywhere inside the cores.....period. That's the truth, I've seen it and discussed it many times with the maker, believe what you wish.

If you search a bit you'll find a LOT of times I've described the 3 steps in varying degrees of detail. From the start with T1, through Evolution to Cera (since they all use the same basic system). Please so some searching. You might simply go to the Wiki page on the Cera and read up on techniques there. Wanna guess how wrote all that BS?
http://vaporpedia.com/wiki/ThermoVape_Cera

OF

 

[tedthehed]

thanks for that wiki page! wow, a vaporpedia...!? (you know, kids ,this used to be illegal?) yes, I believe in doing ones research..that's why I'm here asking you questions!

yup it said:

Warm-Up time: Try 10-20 seconds for a lower temperature start and more flavor. Holding for 20-30 seconds gives a warmer start and denser vapor..

..it doesn't say to watch though...maybe just the first time, with a new battery, to gauge it's ability.

I think were wrangling over semantics here. I don't mean a rubber or plastic sheath of insulation,
but rather just isolation from contact with other conducters of electricity..? Which it must be, obviously..
But 1700F is hotter than I thought it would get, alright, That's near the melting point of brass, isn't it?

 

[OF]

I think were wrangling over semantics here. I don't mean a rubber or plastic sheath of insulation,
but rather just isolation from contact with other conducters of electricity..? Which it must be, obviously..
But 1700F is hotter than I thought it would get, alright, That's near the melting point of brass, isn't it?

I don't know about you, but I understand the difference between thermal insulation (inverse of thermal conductivity) and electrical insulation (a more complex deal made of the inverse of conductivity (straight resistance) and the dialectic issues in play at the time (including atmosphere in most cases). The two are not the same, although most often materials scoring high on one list do so on the other. It is not necessary to otherwise insulate (from an electrical POV), since the oil does not conduct. Omicron and the modified e-cig vape pens work with their bare coils swimming in concentrate for heaven's sake.......

In normal EO core use the heater coil is dry. But if it gets wet (as often happens in loading), no big deal.

Nor is it necessary form an electrical safety POV to protect the operator from such low potentials. It's thermal protection we need here......the kind TV was talking about????

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulator_(electrical)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_insulation

Yes, the heaters get quite hot, which is what puts such extreme demands on the materials used. Both the heater alloy and the ceramic itself are quite special. The connections for the heater are well though out and tested to deal with the strains. IMO a well done thing, the improved version of an already great product (Revoltion/DART).

You're welcome for the answers. I'm very glad you're big on research, please do so. It's one of the things you agreed to do before asking the same old questions when you joined this Forum. It's right there in the rules (bottom right corner of any page?). Much appreciated it keeps those of us who try to help from answering the same points over and over and cluttering up the thread so the new stuff doesn't get due consideration. I know it's easier to just ask, but TIA for not doing so.

Best wishes.

OF

 

[darkrom]

After sending my cera in I am getting lonely. The other portable(S) I have/will have aren't able to simply plop a chunk of bubble hash or dry sifted hash in. And don't get me started with the oils sitting here...not even worth wasting them on anything other than the EO cart since I don't have a nail.

The cera still wins for my favorite portable. I have been cheating on it a bit for vaping herbs on the go with the firewood, but I feel like once I get my core back up and running that may change once again.

Just wanted to say excellent customer service as usual from thermovape.

 

[tedthehed]

well, I've been answering the same questions over and over again about flashlights at another forum, and I answer them too,
so karma -wise I feel I'm worthy of the indulgence. a million thanks .
hey we were all new guys and gals (there are gals here? got to check those rules..) once. and still are if we're lucky.

what IS the question du jour among the highly educated cera users? If I wait a day and no one posts an astute and profound question worthy of the Oracle, can I post a dumb boring one, again?

que sera... (guess you heard that one too....) sigh...

tell you what since this post is already here cluttering up the discourse , let me drop one more vile newb inquiry;

How do you get the two-piece ceramic mouth piece from popping apart, like it does now and then...?

 

[Herbalist23]

Did someone know if the nibbler x micro bubbler would fit on the Cera LL when the mouthpiece is off, I mean just the LL cart with the O rings?

TIA

Herbalist23

 

[OF]

Did someone know if the nibbler x micro bubbler would fit on the Cera LL when the mouthpiece is off, I mean just the LL cart with the O rings?

It will fit (or could be made to) but it won't work. The vent holes for the SR71 are in the glass wall above the end. You'd need to put an o-ring seal up at the top like SR71 does most likely?

OTOH, the PNWT is a great option, currently available at $50 with the discount code "PNWT50":
http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/arizer-solo.3833/page-767#post-464699

Note the code on that message is wrong (later corrected) but the link is right and the correct code is above (WT not TW). Also be sure to make a final check on shipping, I missed a chance for free shipping there, others caught it and saved five bucks.

Best wishes.

OF

 

[Chill Dude]

Is anyone using the plastic furniture leg cap mod to hold down the switch for LL use? If so, how is it working out? I'm uncertain as to what size cap to get and where to get it. IMO, the furniture cap seems like the simplest solution for the switch problem....

 

[tedthehed]

...no, but the cera makes a perfect replacement for the missing leg on my couch...



I'm sorry. too early. I won't do it again.

 

[Herbalist23]

Is anyone using the plastic furniture leg cap mod to hold down the switch for LL use? If so, how is it working out? I'm uncertain as to what size cap to get and where to get it. IMO, the furniture cap seems like the simplest solution for the switch problem....

I'm using it all time, for me it's the best solution.
Not sure where you can get one, though I don't use the furniture leg cap, but a similar rubber cap which
is originally a cap to seal bottles!
The inner diameter is 24mm, whats perfect to hold the switch down while the Cera is 25mm outer diameter.

Herbalist23

 

[Chill Dude]

I'm using it all time, for me it's the best solution.
Not sure where you can get one, though I don't use the furniture leg cap, but a similar rubber cap which
is originally a cap to seal bottles!
The inner diameter is 24mm, whats perfect to hold the switch down while the Cera is 25mm outer diameter.

Herbalist23

Thanks herbalist,

All I can find is caps in inches:

Cera =25mm which is 1"

7/8" = 22mm

IDK, the 7/8 might be too tight to fit, but the 1" might be too big because that's the exact exterior diameter of Cera. What do you think? I might have to physically bring the switch tot Home Depot to get the right fit...

So, inside the cap do you simply place a metal nut to push the switch down?

 

[nopartofme]

well, I've been answering the same questions over and over again about flashlights at another forum, and I answer them too,
so karma -wise I feel I'm worthy of the indulgence. a million thanks .
hey we were all new guys and gals (there are gals here? got to check those rules..) once. and still are if we're lucky.

what IS the question du jour among the highly educated cera users? If I wait a day and no one posts an astute and profound question worthy of the Oracle, can I post a dumb boring one, again?

que sera... (guess you heard that one too....) sigh...

Ted, I think your vitriol is out of turn. OF has taken the time to answer your questions, and as per the rules it is expected that you read threads and do some research before posting:

• Lurk before posting. Please search and read before posting to see if your topic is already covered.
• Read threads before posting in them. Thread rules may be outlined in the first post.

For our purposes here, posting questions does not constitute research.

I think you have your idea of karma a bit twisted up. I've never before heard someone say "I've gone out of my way to help other people, so you should go out of your way to help me!" That seems just a bit backward!

FC is not intended to be a Q&A forum where you get to ask others to take time out of their day to answer your questions without doing research. It is more a forum where those who have put in their share of time researching can discuss with other such members in order to collaboratively arrive at more informed conclusions.

You've already gone way over the line with your attitude (I don't even know what to think about your gender comment), but I'm feeling charitable today so I'm going to give you another shot at answering your questions. You're welcome!

I have a newb question; I'm having trouble getting 'good hits,.' and clouds of vapor on the loose leaf
hereinafter referred to as LL ... I tried finely shredded in the sharpstone, and even more finely shredded through a strainer,
is the trick to dry it out really well first? and they say to pack it firmly, what do you say?

I think you should try adjusting your draw speed. Once you have the pre-heat down (OF's Step 1), try drawing very very slowly, even a little more slowly than you're comfortable with, and do some test puffs. Slowly work your way up in draw speed while continuing to use occasional test puffs to gauge your progress.

Drawing more slowly than you're comfortable with is only intended to provide a low starting point for your tests, as I think most would be surprised how much heat can be delivered to the herb with what at first might seem like too light a draw.

What we're trying to avoid is pulling too strongly too early in the process, as you can actually manage to cool the coil down with an early hard pull.

Test puffs are important here because the ceramic mouthpiece does an outstanding job cooling the vapor (and perhaps maintaining a small particle size in the vapor), to the point where I find it very easy to pull vapor and not realize it. Test puffs in proper lighting will help you learn exactly what you and Cera are doing together. Like watching the glow, this is intended as an exercise for getting to know Cera, not directions for every use.

Warm-Up time: Try 10-20 seconds for a lower temperature start and more flavor. Holding for 20-30 seconds gives a warmer start and denser vapor..

..it doesn't say to watch though...maybe just the first time, with a new battery, to gauge it's ability.

Yes, watching the glow is intended merely as an exercise for those new to Cera to become familiar with its thermal "rhythms", in order to provide first-hand experience as to how long to wait before taking a draw. I've also advocated shimmying the top cap up off the cart a bit and using it in the dark with a mirror. The glow shines through the ceramic and allows you to witness how your draw is affecting the temperature of the coil.

Early on, some experimented with preheating the cart prior to loading, in order to surround the herb in an already heated chamber and hopefully aid the convective process. This may indeed help a little with getting hard pulls coming fast, but like OF says it creates a risk of heating up your fingers too while you're trying to load a hot cart. I think once the coil has heated to a healthy glow (not necessarily maximum glow) you are good to go, given a proper draw speed.

I've also previously suggested holding the cart between your fingers while heating up, and going for it when you feel the walls get warm. You have to hold it from a cold start though, or else you might surprise yourself.

tell you what since this post is already here cluttering up the discourse , let me drop one more vile newb inquiry;

How do you get the two-piece ceramic mouth piece from popping apart, like it does now and then...?

I assume you're referring to the mouth piece popping out from the top cap while they are both off the cart? I've never had an issue with this. As long as you don't press on it, it should stay put. Is it really popping out for you while just sitting there? If you're inserting it into the top cap outside of using a cart, make sure it is pressed all the way in. Placing the cap and MP on the cart should do that for you.

...oops...sorry, a little confusion there ... I was not talking about the oil/wax cart. , but the loose leaf cart...? Cera says you heat it till you see the glow through little holes in ceramic...

If Cera is speaking to you, there may be a separate issue that needs addressing!