Discontinued Thermovape Cera

Krazzykid

Well-Known Member
I doubt the temperature gets anywhere near 446F near the mouthpiece.
For hash oil the vaporization temperature is wildly considered to really begin at 420F+, so with a long session with multiple people it is very possible that the Delrin mouthpiece at least in spots could very well reach 446F. Weather or not if it will, it is still a very large concern for someone that needs a truly medical grade device

Edit: I understand I could purchase the ceramic top, or even a metal drip tip to solve this concern. My point is with them no longer including the ceramic mouth piece with the order, as shipped, it is no longer a medical grade device period.
 
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PhotoRider

Diagnosed with level 11 G.A.S.
I understand that the outside of the EO cart is metal, trust me. I defer you to read this post between Tim and myself in the original thread
http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/t...sed-because-of-chaos.7504/page-20#post-298793

I specifically asked him how the Cera EO could have an all ceramic vapor path even though the core is made of either ss or ti. So I have already been assured by Tim that even though there is metal in the "air path" there isn't any in the "vapor path"

Edit: now with using a delrin tip instead of the original ceramic tip there will be plastic sitting directly in the core. Delrin offgases formaldehyde at around 446F(give or take a little depending on which exact one is used), so again using the now included delrin tip makes the device no longer medical grade in my opinion and a medical standpoint.

Understood on the plastic stuff, but I don't use it anyway :)
I think its splitting hairs on the metal/ceramic path stuff. Lets face it the vape does touch the metal no matter what anybody says.
Loading it does and as it expands from heat on the way out. I just don't get it I guess.

On the ceramic tip verses without it on a water pipe. yes I tried it. Maybe I'm an idiot, but with the top on and O-ring (or w/o it) it just sits on the joint. No attachment aka too big to fit inside. Personally I am not going to just let it sit there by weight on my $1600 worked pipe... You can if you want. Now if I just use the LL cart w/o the top, sure its the same size as the EO cart aka the diam is pretty much the same. Using the LL cart and just the MP (w/o the ceramic cover) - don't think that works either...

So far for me its 10x better. My perspective which until there is something I'm missing here its what I think. Not saying your are wrong or right, just for me my experience doesn't match.
 

toros23

Well-Known Member
So far for me its 10x better. My perspective which until there is something I'm missing here its what I think. Not saying your are wrong or right, just for me my experience doesn't match.

Understood, I thought you said you hadn't tried it. I agree, with ceramic MP you cannot rest it there, you need to hold it in place. I will have to try your method for sure, it is a good idea.
 

PhotoRider

Diagnosed with level 11 G.A.S.
Understood, I thought you said you hadn't tried it. I agree, with ceramic MP you cannot rest it there, you need to hold it in place. I will have to try your method for sure, it is a good idea.

Well I guess what I said could be interp'ed that way :D I meant I couldn't figure it out, because I was unaware that was the design. Didn't know they designed it that way up front and when I tried it, I just couldn't understand that was a real option. I threw it out quickly...

I had to grind the female a bit to fit easily. I did it to a 18F-18F female and a 18F-18M adapter for my pipes. O-ring makes a good seal. Diamond paper and a dowel in my drill press. Took some time...

The LL cart of course requires a screen solution because the tip has no holder, but in the end it sits on my desk. I use the Bender instead. much better at that and no mods for the fit to a pipe.

I figure I didn't need the cooling effect since I am using water anyway :) For me the Cera isn't portable. Its too big for that IMHO. It is a home unit, and as soon as I get off my A$$ (or quit vaping too much) I'm going to built a base unit with that 10A variable voltage lab supply I bought and is staring at me.
 

BLAZING OG

Vaping is a way of life!
my nibbler on my ti EO is money, fwiw
Bob, Thats freaking worth a lot my man!!!
I was wondering this and another fc member thats we have been pm-ing to help him decide on various options!!!!!!
Thanks , are you physic lol lol !!!!!
Maybe one day you can do a video of the two mated up !!!!
:bowdown:
 

Bob Loblaw

Astralnaut
i just pull the bottom metal brace out of the nibbler and the two top o-rings off the EO cart and it fits perfect. just shot two vids today and am pretty nailed, but i'll try to remember
 

BLAZING OG

Vaping is a way of life!
Understood on the plastic stuff, but I don't use it anyway :)
I think its splitting hairs on the metal/ceramic path stuff. Lets face it the vape does touch the metal no matter what anybody says.
Loading it does and as it expands from heat on the way out. I just don't get it I guess.

On the ceramic tip verses without it on a water pipe. yes I tried it. Maybe I'm an idiot, but with the top on and O-ring (or w/o it) it just sits on the joint. No attachment aka too big to fit inside. Personally I am not going to just let it sit there by weight on my $1600 worked pipe... You can if you want. Now if I just use the LL cart w/o the top, sure its the same size as the EO cart aka the diam is pretty much the same. Using the LL cart and just the MP (w/o the ceramic cover) - don't think that works either...

So far for me its 10x better. My perspective which until there is something I'm missing here its what I think. Not saying your are wrong or right, just for me my experience doesn't match.

I have posted a video in the last page or two mating cera to an 18mm to 18mm female adapter to my oil rig, but what i really wanted to add was that the cera ceramic mouthpiece for the EO works great too!!! Now, if you remove the ufo part out of the mouth piece cover, insert a silicone grommet & a 51o drip tip of your choice into the ceramic mouth piece cover.
This method keeps the mouth piece cool to the lips and not only that but it creates a mini chamber inside the ceramic cover with the ufo part out!!
Now, I have just ordered silicone grommets, id suggest not to use rubber as the one iam using temporarily!!! The ufo mouthpiece is great for herbs, but for EO its a little restrictive and EO doesnt seem to be as hot or need to be diffused!! just an idea for some that might want to simply modify the mouthpiece so it stays cool for longer durations!!!

My white ceramic 510 tip broke, but i have this ceramic black one on now!!!











 

PhotoRider

Diagnosed with level 11 G.A.S.
I have posted a video in the last page or two mating cera to an 18mm to 18mm female adapter to my oil rig, but what i really wanted to add was that the cera ceramic mouthpiece for the EO works great too!!! Now, if you remove the ufo part out of the mouth piece cover, insert a silicone grommet & a 51o drip tip of your choice into the ceramic mouth piece cover.
This method keeps the mouth piece cool to the lips and not only that but it creates a mini chamber inside the ceramic cover with the ufo part out!!
Now, I have just ordered silicone grommets, id suggest not to use rubber as the one iam using temporarily!!! The ufo mouthpiece is great for herbs, but for EO its a little restrictive and EO doesnt seem to be as hot or need to be diffused!! just an idea for some that might want to simply modify the mouthpiece so it stays cool for longer durations!!!

My white ceramic 510 tip broke, but i have this ceramic black one on now!!!











Good idea however there is plastic involved :) I'll look at the vid.


Bob - several of your vids (at least what I saw) shows the nibbler X being used w/o the metal bottom. One of the first things I noticed...
 

BLAZING OG

Vaping is a way of life!
Good idea however there is plastic involved :) I'll look at the vid.


Bob - several of your vids (at least what I saw) shows the nibbler X being used w/o the metal bottom. One of the first things I noticed...
with the direct cart on the glass adapter there is no plastic just the cart and orings that slide into the 18mm-f to 18mm-f, if you dont have a direct inject then 18mm-M to 18mm-F should do the trick!!!


if your talking about the rubber grommet on the actual mouth piece mod, then yes plastic/rubber, but iamn3ko I think is his FC name , made a SS version that the 510 drip tip fit in with the normal silicone oring and the red cera orings around the SS tunnel to hold it in place all in the cera ceramic mouth piece cover!!!

Cheers!!!

Thank you for liking the idea, I hope it can help or maybe spark more ideas to cater to most in this amazing modular mouthpiece if you will!!

Also the silicone grommets iam looking into are high temp rated at over 500 degrees I believe!!

I hope I didnt sounds like a NOOB!!!!


lol

Edit*
Oh and the mouth piece mod iamn3ko made with the SS tunnel earring , he could also use it for loose leaf by just adding a ceramic screen inside, or just keep the screen in for oils and or loose leaf!!!
 
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BLAZING OG,

OF

Well-Known Member
There is no way the ceramic cap and top costs 9 times as much as the loose leaf core does. The LL core is made of the same stuff and is hand made.
The ceramic top cap and mouthpiece cost $90 by themselves, yet if you buy just the LL core(no body) it comes with them. So by that pricing structure the LL core only really costs $10. Not possible.

Bought that way it sure looks like it's 9 times? It's your math...... There must be at least one way?

I think you make a unrealistic link when you look at costs in such a simplistic manner. How much do you think it costs to make a new Toyota from parts? Isn't it true, for instance, that the charger, extra batteries and a lot of other stuff for Persei is free if you look at how much the tube, end cap and two heads cost? Just because TV did a unique pricing structure on their old products to keep 'the sum of the parts' the same as the package price (know anyone else that does that for anything? I don't either) doesn't mean you can continue to add and subtract pieces 'across the table' here.

Package prices are almost always cheaper in my experience. You don't find that?

And and EO core is definitely a much harder thing to build. I've now built a couple LL cores, but I'm by no means qualified to make an EO core with the much more cramped spaces and 4 stacked (very brittle) cores. You're just plain wrong here, I think, the materials might be close to a push, but the labor is hugely different.

As too how well it works with drip tips against the ceramic cap, I too agree that drip tips are the call and I have said as much here several times. You'll find drip tips on all the EO core photos I've posted, even from the early days before the change. Unlike you, PR, others and I are not guessing....we have experience to back up our opinions. The cap is just not that useful even though it's right there in the kit next to the cores I just don't use it except for what it's designed for, the LL core.

As another data point, the 'mini Cera' drawings I've been shown all use the EO core with no cap. Near as I can tell, using the cap would make the the top 1/4 inch or so bigger in diameter than the rest of the unit. It's not really intended for LL use as much as EL and EO, nobody 'in the know' would think of using that big, heavy top where it's not needed or wanted. It just doesn't offer any useful advantages I can see.

I get it you wish you'd got the parts for cheap, but that was then, this is now. IMO the new structure fits reality for most users and preserves the commitment to hold the system price in line in the face of unexpectedly small drops in production costs for the EO core. You're, of course, welcome to your own opinions but I think PR is telling it straight.

It's my honest opinion the horse is dead, you'd be best advised to stop beating it until you get something more solid to base your complaints on? If you don't want it, think the price is too high, or whatever by all means don't buy it. That's how it's supposed to be in a free market.

OF
 

PhotoRider

Diagnosed with level 11 G.A.S.
B If you don't want it, think the price is too high, or whatever by all means don't buy it. That's how it's supposed to be in a free market.

OF
And wouldn't have it any way. I want a choice and I want this market to mature. Its still in startup mode and it must grow to mature...

Things are really sold on value - marketing 101. In heavy competition with similar products COGs become more important as do margins. But if you have something special - its value. Price isn't the best marketing and business strategy, having an unfair advantage (aka little competition, no one else has) is much better - e.g. the IPhone. Game changer to Blackberry at the time in the personal market :)

I think in the EO market space there really are only 2 real players (companies) I my opinion.

How I look at things - I'm the opposite of the Walmart shopper. It isn't just about price, its value and thats the whole package. So far in my experience the additional post sales support with both players have high value to me. Plus it does what it says, again value. Trying to get something cheaper and cheaper and cheaper just to get more, more, more is a thirst that you can never quench. Easy to say, hard to do :D

Also I prefer to work with small companies, large companies are seldom game changers. Small company have more risk and need more margin. Labor is higher and is R&D since to make their market they must be game changers. However, this market is elastic, the cheaper it gets, the more you sell and the more you make. The ratio isn't 1:1 i.e you lower the price 10% you sell 10% more, you may sell 25% more...

You get what you pay for and you get to pick what you want. Thank God :D
 

nopartofme

Over the falls, in a barrel
Count me hopeful if this points to a good chance of an LL core price drop sometime in the future… $50 core, say? I'll take a spare…

It's not really intended for LL use as much as EL and EO, nobody 'in the know' would think of using that big, heavy top where it's not needed or wanted. It just doesn't offer any useful advantages I can see.
Interesting, 'not really intended for LL use' sounds like not only is it not designed for use with the LLC & cap, but no alternative cap/mouthpiece is in the works?

Time to take the mini off my 'watch list' for the time being?

Looking again, you did say 'as much as'. Maybe I can still hope…
 

toros23

Well-Known Member
Unlike you, PR, others and I are not guessing....we have experience to back up our opinions. The cap is just not that useful even though it's right there in the kit next to the cores I just don't use it except for what it's designed for, the LL core.

Come on now OF, it is a little useful. I use a drip tip with the bottom part of the ceramic cap to quickly and easily mate with an 18mm female joint. I find it very useful and would not want to discount its' usefulness with the EO cart so quickly. I never liked the ceramic ufo tip/nipple, always felt like I was gonna chip a tooth but the bottom part works well as a ConG.
 

BLAZING OG

Vaping is a way of life!
Like the documentary about wal-mart "The high cost of low prices"
Basically all the fucked up shit they do to get us cheap prices, like poor chinese people living in ridiculous tight unlivable places, work absurd hours & get paid like $0.30 cents an hour all for us to enjoy low prices!!

I for one , seem to keep coming back to my ceramic mouthpiece wether with ufo or mod'ed with the 510 tips...............and that's for my EO core, I don't own the LL core!!!
Gotta make sure I dont break this puppy!
 

Bob Loblaw

Astralnaut
Like the documentary about wal-mart "The high cost of low prices"
Basically all the fucked up shit they do to get us cheap prices, like poor chinese people living in ridiculous tight unlivable places, work absurd hours & get paid like $0.30 cents an hour all for us to enjoy low prices!!

I for one , seem to keep coming back to my ceramic mouthpiece wether with ufo or mod'ed with the 510 tips!!!


:cheers: one of the reasons i choose the companies i do
 

OF

Well-Known Member
Interesting, 'not really intended for LL use' sounds like not only is it not designed for use with the LLC & cap, but no alternative cap/mouthpiece is in the works?

Time to take the mini off my 'watch list' for the time being?

My take on the mini is it's directed toward the Alpha (e-cig) guys, not herbs. Cera is too heavy and cumbersome to suit them as I understand it. They still want big batteries and all, but have no use for the weight, bulk, insulation or brittle nature of the ceramic.

Unfortunately lots of guys have ideas about what it will be that I don't think are too accurate? I think it's worth watching out for, but I don't think it's going to be as magic as some do?

Come on now OF, it is a little useful. I use a drip tip with the bottom part of the ceramic cap to quickly and easily mate with an 18mm female joint. I find it very useful and would not want to discount its' usefulness with the EO cart so quickly. I never liked the ceramic ufo tip/nipple, always felt like I was gonna chip a tooth but the bottom part works well as a ConG.

Fine by me. Great in fact. I just don't find it all that useful myself and unlike some that are so sure of things I've tried it out extensively. The fact is the ceramic top is right there and I don't use it except with LL. More over, I bought two EO cores at retail (I got a Beta one to test), one of them a stock one (different concentrate and used on my kluges) the other a custom high resistance one. I paid $100 for each, same as everyone, but even though I was offered caps and MPs with each (it was back when they were included) I declined...... If I thought it really had utility to have for EO use (or thought I was so clumsy as to break the one I had I guess) I'd no doubt have taken them home with me?

I'm glad you have a use for them with EO but suggest you're very much an exception there? IMO the alternative (include them at higher prices with every purchase) isn't a good one. The 'free because it used to be that way' isn't realistic IMO. That opportunity is passed.

Folks might recall that T1 and a couple of the other prices came down when the process smoothed out? With Cera they built that in 'up front', I just don't think the EO core got cheaper and easier to make on schedule. Too much fiddly hand labor. Too many completed cores that 'don't pass' and have to be reworked, sometimes several times. Labor ain't cheap.

OF
 

darkrom

Great Scott!
So any advice for me? I LOVE my cera LL. It is the best portable I've ever owned.

Now I've just started making my own BHO with the liquidizer (amazing product btw, so easy). Do I just order the EO cart (once I can afford it) and be happy that I already have the mouthpiece on the LL that I can use?

What cautions or advice would you guys have for someone making the transition to portable oil vaping?
 

OF

Well-Known Member
What cautions or advice would you guys have for someone making the transition to portable oil vaping?

I'm not sure about general advice, but specific advice for you would have to include "keep it out of the water"......

One thing sure, much as Cera LL is a very neat thing, good concentrates in an EO core will convince you Ceral LL is just foreplay.

For general advice, perhaps the traditional "abandon all hope, ye who enter here"?

If we don't hear from you for a while, now we know why.

Bonne chance.

OF
 

Skored

Well-Known Member
So any advice for me? I LOVE my cera LL. It is the best portable I've ever owned.

Now I've just started making my own BHO with the liquidizer (amazing product btw, so easy). Do I just order the EO cart (once I can afford it) and be happy that I already have the mouthpiece on the LL that I can use?

What cautions or advice would you guys have for someone making the transition to portable oil vaping?

I have both the LL and EO and interchange them all the time. So here's my advice, just order the core and get a drip tip. I can't speak to others debating whether the ceramic MP or the drip tip is the best solution because I only have used the drip tip for my EO. But here's why. As I mentioned earlier, I interchange the cores all the time. Well, that means that every time I switch to the EO, I would have to clean the ceramic MP before use as you wouldn't want any debris falling into the core. As you well know, that MP gets quite a bit of build up, and really only needs to be cleaned once a week or every other week. So for ease of use and time efficiency, the MP stays with the LL core. IMO, the best thing about the EO core is how quick it is to use and get medicated. I can't imagine having the clean the MP before each use with EO.
 

Betelgeuse

I'm the ghost with the most
Hello everybody, this is my first post. The mention of pricing earlier raised a question with me. I'm very interested in getting these, howeverI noticed that the difference between a stainless steel and titanium EO Cera (vape only kit) is $250, but difference between the titanium and EO cartridge is only $100. So are the bodies different as well as the cores? Because as OF stated you would think individual pieces would be more expensive than the package. At this pricing I could buy a stainless steel LL (vape only kit) and a separate titanium EO cartridge for less than one titanium EO (vape only kit). This is not a complaint I just feel like I'm missing something or maybe I found a little way to save a few bucks?
 
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