Thermal Accumulator by phattpiggie

[General Disaster]

Well so far with the TA3, it seems James Bond was right, The Wand Is Not Enough! [sic]

It just doesn't seem to have the power to be a realistically useful IH, on TA3 at least. I've had it going for something like 90/100 seconds, and it's still barely there. Which is interesting as the Tempest only takes approx 30 seconds, showing the much larger capacity in the TA.
I think it's back to torching for this baby, I'll only be waving my wand in a tempest I suspect! (or is that waving my tempest in a wand?)

 

[VGOODIEZ]

Well so far with the TA3, it seems James Bond was right, The Wand Is Not Enough! [sic]

It just doesn't seem to have the power to be a realistically useful IH, on TA3 at least. I've had it going for something like 90/100 seconds, and it's still barely there. Which is interesting as the Tempest only takes approx 30 seconds, showing the much larger capacity in the TA.
I think it's back to torching for this baby, I'll only be waving my wand in a tempest I suspect! (or is that waving my tempest in a wand?)

Seems a bit long to be honest. I gravitate more towards the inductor now but I don't remember the wand taking more than around 45-50 seconds. Might want to try some different positioning.

I guess I should clarify that this was with the smaller sized matrix (TA1 and TA2) so maybe if you are using the larger matrix in TA3 it would take a bit longer but even still, seems like a lot?

 

[Sativapo]

@General Disaster PP said you have to let the top of the heater with the screw and disc through the top hole of the wand. Did you try this ?

 

[sedentree]

I got the 3 today and also find the Wand not giving the results I was expecting. Early days of course, but have been using it at 420f running until time over. I get a bit medicated but very little, if any vapor on inhale and zero on exhale.
Out of interest, are we supposed to keep the white/clear o ring attached to the bowl or take it off, would that make a difference?
I have set the TA like PP in his video (also tried it with the silicone pot as a rest as seen in my earlier post to see if that helped)
My only other option currently is a Vapman torch which I understand is also meant to work but I think I need to hit it longer than I have done so far maybe

 

[Dopamine]

Ordered mine yesterday, 7 hole for simplicity.

How would this be with a bb9?

How short of a stem could you use before the vapor gets too hot?

Do you use it with a condenser on dav stems?

How wide is the bowl piece at its widest?

 

[General Disaster]

Seems a bit long to be honest. I gravitate more towards the inductor now but I don't remember the wand taking more than around 45-50 seconds. Might want to try some different positioning.

I guess I should clarify that this was with the smaller sized matrix (TA1 and TA2) so maybe if you are using the larger matrix in TA3 it would take a bit longer but even still, seems like a lot?

Absolutely! But it's almost impossible to judge how different it would be from my tempest, being all I've used on the wand. I knew it'd take a while, but until someone brings out an IH more suitable for these higher capacity vape heads, something nearer 400w or 500w. In addition, I was having to make a guess on the positioning in the coil, though I did a careful comparison using the tempest (allowing for the VI etc) so I don't think it was way out. I only tried two or three times (two I think, it gets harder to remember, the more tests I do! Hmmm...! )

@General Disaster PP said you have to let the top of the heater with the screw and disc through the top hole of the wand. Did you try this ?

Was that specifically for the TA3?

By the way, I ought to clarify that using the lighter is bloody incredible! That was not in any way a gripe about either wand or TA, just a little disappointed, but I'm well aware there's a balance at play here, the heat capacity of the head, the power applied and where, the level of extraction, etc. and was even hoping for different behaviour, but just a little disappointed is all, something will turn up this year, I bet.
I never believe in magic! 1 + 1 always = 1.99846274553 (I worked it out one night).

 

[jespar45]

w00t! TA landed, and Stem. First hits are tasty and potent!

Thanks, @phattpiggie, this and Chaos are fantastic, and I'm in love with the stem already! Also thanks @VGOODIEZ for the incredible service!

That's is beautiful! Would love to own one of these stems!

 

[VapingYogi]

I know the tempest : I have one since 1 week. I would like to have the feeling of somebody that have both (air flow, heat retention etc). Just to know if it is worth buying a TA3 if you have the mad heaters head.

my bad, yes its worth it (as a Tempest fan) the size of the TA3 is notable larger and the heat retention is significantly more than the Tempest. Even using the Heat Sink / Magsink the TA3 doesn't cool down for 3 minutes, without it, significantly longer, the bowl is also larger as well so its worth getting both imo; I also enjoy using a Torch to heat so, maybe its just bias.

That's is beautiful! Would love to own one of these stems!

I love the matching size to the TA, would love to get one eventually

 

[Sativapo]

I don't know before I get mine. Maybe there is a difference between wands ?
@General Disaster
We can clearly see PP getting at least OK vapor in the vid with the wand and the TA3.
The fact that you don't succeed with a torch even small makes me think there is a technique issue.

 

[General Disaster]

I don't know before I get mine. Maybe there is a difference between wands ?
@General Disaster
We can clearly see PP getting at least OK vapor in the vid with the wand and the TA3.
The fact that you don't succeed with a torch even small makes me think there is a technique issue.

May have misread me, I'm getting fantastic results with a torch!!!
(On reflection, a bit too good! By the time I was trying my fourth attempt, I could hardly see straight! )

The Wand needs much more experimentation to get the best from it, but I've fairly specific criteria (impatience not being the least of them! ) and personally I'm thinking that even with the perfect positioning, I'm going to want something at least twice the wattage. This is just me, not saying anything about others or the Wand.

What you said about the head sticking out the coil, that sounds weird as from what I can see that would put the main concentration of heat around the top of the bowl? I'm suspecting I've misunderstood the description, as I can't see how this would improve things.
I worked out a position based on the Tempest's ideal heating position (for me, and so far, anyway), then allowing for the TA3's extra height, and the lack of a VI section on top (to allow for where to balls start), and based on PP's advice on heating the top half (with flame) of heater, and the two heating grooves on the Tempest. So it may not be ideal, but I figured it can't be wildly off, would just need small adjustments to tune in. So inother words I've taken some time and care to think it through to work out where to put it.

Could you link that PP post showing the vid of him heating it please? It's sounds like I'm missing some factor, I'm sure it's not the Wand that's faulty.

 

[Sativapo]

May have misread me, I'm getting fantastic results with a torch!!!
(On reflection, a bit too good! By the time I was trying my fourth attempt, I could hardly see straight! )

The Wand needs much more experimentation to get the best from it, but I've fairly specific criteria (impatience not being the least of them! ) and personally I'm thinking that even with the perfect positioning, I'm going to want something at least twice the wattage. This is just me, not saying anything about others or the Wand.

What you said about the head sticking out the coil, that sounds weird as from what I can see that would put the main concentration of heat around the top of the bowl? I'm suspecting I've misunderstood the description, as I can't see how this would improve things.
I worked out a position based on the Tempest's ideal heating position (for me, and so far, anyway), then allowing for the TA3's extra height, and the lack of a VI section on top (to allow for where to balls start), and based on PP's advice on heating the top half (with flame) of heater, and the two heating grooves on the Tempest. So it may not be ideal, but I figured it can't be wildly off, would just need small adjustments to tune in. So inother words I've taken some time and care to think it through to work out where to put it.

Could you link that PP post showing the vid of him heating it please? It's sounds like I'm missing some factor, I'm sure it's not the Wand that's faulty.

Here we go then.
Available from Monday March 11th at ThermalAccumulatorSales@mail.com, here, IG and everyones favourite online retailer @VGOODIEZ.
My IG account is public and where I tend to post everything that's going on because it's easier than sharing stuff to 3rd party video and image sites and then to here.

This has taken way too long coming together.
I'll not go into detail but suffice to say I am sourcing a new CNC shop to do the stuff I have in the pipeline.
Apologies to everyone and thank you for your patience.

TAv2 with heater options.
In order of appearance.

Ti bowl with Variabowl depth settings. 8mm compatible spigot.

Knurled 7 hole.
~55 off 3mm ball Heater Matrix, HM.
Non magnetic.
7 off 2mm intake holes.
Available £65.

Knurled AdjustaFlo.
~55 off 3mm ball HM.
Magnetic.
4 off 2mm diameter intake holes.
Available £70.

Both modified OG cases.
Balls loaded from the bowl end as per the OG.

Smooth AdjustaFlo.
~70 off 3mm ball HM.
Magnetic.
Bowl end loading with extra groove for screen location.
2 off 2mm intake slots.
Available £75.

Smooth Easiload AdjustaFlo.
~70 off 3mm ball HM.
Magnetic.
Top load. Ledge and groove for screen location.
2 off 2mm intake slots.
Not available just yet. £80.

Both UK manufactured.


All TA come with bowls and a random colour Murphy Silicone Decapper and a Cherry wood screen set dowel.
AdjustaFlo's come with a small screwdriver so you can set the intake restriction.

The Knurled 7 Hole and Smooth AdjustaFlo versions all have approximately the same intake flow when the adjuster disc is fully open. The Knurled AdjustaFlo have slightly less.
Both Smooth models are UK manufactured.
The AdjustaFlo discs are 430 SS and magnetic. Screws are 304SS.
All titanium parts are grade 2. All screens are 316SS

Cleaning the lines up, deepening the bowl and ditching the OG wooden heat buffer has meant these are not compatible with some metal stems due to heat transfer.

I have some really basic heat buffer bobbins for the Revolve 2 stems. Not pretty but cheap and cheerful.

Different design means different torch heating technique. The heaters are still very forgiving.

Instead of heating the top 3rd I'm heating the top half of the heater.

The Wand still works but also differently. I have 1-2mm of the heater sticking out beyond the glass. No wooden rings this time, sorry.
There should be a desktop IH coming in the future as and when time allows.

MagSink decappers will be available in limited numbers. These are a repurposed and modified 3d printer parts.
There is a hint in the video of their evolution and the drawings have been done ready for the new machine shop.

Being aluminium they suck heat out of the TA very nicely, 5 minutes and it's nearly all gone.

Variabowl is pretty self explanatory, you can vary the bowl depth. Ti screen setting ring.
The Ti ring is not necessary if using the full bowl and there is a screen groove in the bottom of the bowl.

I confused with the torch issue with another member. You should follow PP' s technique as it seems to work better in practice. Induction is different and depends on the heater shape and material combined with the characteristics of the wand coil and power so you can't wild guess the technique comparing to the tempest or torch heating.

 

[General Disaster]

We can clearly see PP getting at least OK vapor in the vid with the wand and the TA3.
The fact that you don't succeed with a torch even small makes me think there is a technique issue.

Thanks for posting that, I have seen it, but maybe took a different view on the vid itself (which is why I didn't realise you meant that one).

Firstly, I'm certain he's heating it for a while before the vid starts, so the timing is unclear, and whether he held it in that position for all the time is also unclear (probably, but can't say for sure). I think the vid was mostly to show a wand works, but not a howto.

Second I couldn't tell which model it was. looked like a 2 or a 3 but that makes a big difference in heater length and thus positioning (I'd imagine), not to mention how long to heat it.

He was most certainly getting good results from that, but for me I need something more precise to follow (than the vid) to make my own method from.
I'll try more over time, but just the extra thermal mass in the 3 is going to have a major impact on how long the Wand needs (I can forget it's going if on auto too long (my issue, not the TA's, but I have to factor it in, short term memory problems), and holding it on manual for that long is not easy too, especially with the neurologic muscle problems.
I've worked a nice method with 'pest & wand, and don't need to hold it in place, and only need an extra 10 secs manual at the end (after a 30 sec auto plus a pull) before getting proper hits off it, but until a more powerful IH (that suits) comes along, I'm thinking for me, butane is going to work better on the TA3.

 

[Pcloudy]

Anyone getting good results with the ta1 and wand yet? Been creeping the temp setting up on the wand but haven’t gotten it where I want it yet. It’s been wand then torch to get it up to temp so far.

I’m also finding it has a bit of a built in anti combust feature as my whole setup gets way to hot before I’m anywhere close to combustion. Using it on a short wooden simrell with wooden mouthpiece.

 

[leanpubpackage]

I think the reason the tempest works so well with the wand is because it has an induction sleeve on the head that’s thin. It cherries pretty easily with the torch

The TA wasn’t built specific for an induction heater i don’t think and the metal is much thicker. It’s definitely seems like a torch device. Can’t wait to get mine in the mail and blast it with the big shot

 

[General Disaster]

Personally once I got a Wand for the Tempest (first time using an IH) I much preferred it to the torch. It may not be designed for an IH specifically (although the whole design of integrating the induction sleeve with the air vents shows this was considered at an early stage in development, I'd judge), but I found it far harder to get as consistent results with flame without a great deal more effort.
The fact that the Tempest has such a good analogue temperature indicator goes very well with it's more modest heat capacity and the Wands repeatable settings - it's easier to play with the heat, as less is needed to fill that capacitor.
I'm finding the TA3 behaves quite differently and needs a completely new approach, not an adaptation of my Tempest method.

Actually, does anyone know how the steel (presumably it's steel) is fitted in the TA? I'm guessing an inner sleeve, but without pulling the head apart I can't tell what's in there and where it's positioned, that's picking up the induction.

... so you can't wild guess the technique comparing to the tempest or torch heating.

I wasn't, that was the point of what I was describing regards the comparisons with the pests dimensions and distribution in the heater, and how it compared to the TA's heater.
The biggest factor I couldn't work out beyond a vague guess, was the location, mass and shape of the induction material inside, so I went on the assumption it's a sleeve of some sort on the inner surface of the heater between Ti and boroballs.

Out of interest, are we supposed to keep the white/clear o ring attached to the bowl or take it off, would that make a difference?

Well I figured it was meant to be there, and if it was just for packaging (protection, preventing parts coming off, whatever) then PP would have clearly stated to remove it. So it's gone on to my Revolve2 with that still in place, no melting or degrading issues visible or anything else I can see, and it may even be there to stop direct metal to metal contact with the stem?

 

[sedentree]

Well I figured it was meant to be there, and if it was just for packaging (protection, preventing parts coming off, whatever) then PP would have clearly stated to remove it. So it's gone on to my Revolve2 with that still in place, no melting or degrading issues visible or anything else I can see, and it may even be there to stop direct metal to metal contact with the stem?

Yes, I think your right, it was just one part of the TA that was a little unusual to my experience but like you say if it wasn’t meant to be there we would likely have been told

 

[Sativapo]

I think the heater is titanium. The ferrous thing is not the only factor for IH with a metal alloy. It's more about conductivity in general I think.

 

[someTooL]

I’m wondering whether to remove that oring also. Just doesn’t seem needed?

 

[Custom Flower Hardware]

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[Sativapo]

Off course the oring is there for insulating. I don't think he put it there for adding some silicone stylee to that metal.

 

[sedentree]

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What stem is that please?

Edit
Back to the Wand discussion, just hit the TA3 on 575f until time over and that worked very nicely for me

 

[Zombietaz]

Just ordered a TA3 and a blazer torch to go along with it. Plan on using it on the DV Bonger through a chill steel pipe.

Any tips on how to get this set up for the first use? Bit new to this particular style of vape so any tips are appreciated!

 

[General Disaster]

I think the heater is titanium. The ferrous thing is not the only factor for IH with a metal alloy. It's more about conductivity in general I think.

Yeah, pretty sure that's what PP said (about Ti), but Ti don't induct, so something else has to be there. just like the Tempests outer sleeve, but I reckon it's got to be internal. I wondered whether the screw holding the airflow vents could be long enough and act as the inductor target, but I don't think that would work well, and besides, it ain't long at all! The metal must be more than just conductive (I presume you mean electrical conduction not heat conduction?), I believe it must also interact with a magnetic field, or no current can be induced, hence the popularity of various steel alloys for this (along with their other useful properties).

Just on the possible options that would seem the easiest to apply and more effective as inductors, my guess is an inner sleeve between balls and Ti wall. But that may be a trade secret, so I'm content to accept I may be wrong as no way to check without pulling it apart, and even then may not be so easy to tell. I haven't noticed a magnetic effect other than the air vents, but I wouldn't know what to expect (in terms of strength of effect) so again, guesses but no confirmation.

What stem is that please?

Edit
Back to the Wand discussion, just hit the TA3 on 575f until time over and that worked very nicely for me

Nice one! Well done. Can you describe the positioning of the head in the Wand? I was trying 590℉ before giving up, and going well past the cut off by switching to manual. It's sounding more and more like a positioning issue for me, despite my best efforts (I am green on IH's, so that's my excuse! )?

Just ordered a TA3 and a blazer torch to go along with it. Plan on using it on the DV Bonger through a chill steel pipe.

Any tips on how to get this set up for the first use? Bit new to this particular style of vape so any tips are appreciated!

Shit man! Don't look at me, I'm barely ahead of you here!
So if it helps at all (but I'm sure more experienced vapers than I will give better advice), I've started using my TA3 with the vents almost fully open (85% to 90% as an estimate - I'm looking for big DTL hits, not mouth to lung), until I suss the Wand out I'm using a pocket 3-jet lighter (nothing like as powerful as a blazer), and I'm heating the top half of the thinner and longer section of the head (from where it narrows above the bowl to where it ends at the vents, that length, I'm heating exactly the vent side half with the flame only just clipping the edge where the vents start. Holding the flame about 1cm between the inner bright blue cone and the head (you'll have to adjust for the blazer, can only describe this little lighter). After about 50 to 60 seconds it's right on the mark and a pull or two starts pulling the heat through the weed in the bowl, and the big hits start coming in. At least twice I thought I'd combusted, but if so, it was only a tiny amount, it didn't go through the whole bowl.

Oh yeah, the bowl - I pushed the screen down with the wooden dowel supplied, until it was near the bottom, and it seemed to hit a stop (so I stopped! ), and is now noticeably bigger! It runs quite deep, but seems to maintain an airspace between the screen and the bottom of the bowl, preventing an attenuation of the airflow below the screen, so seems to have pretty good airflow with a quite packed bowl, more so than some other similar types of vape.

Take all that with a pinch of salt, but if it gives you something to work with, hope it helps.
Just from vids etc I'd judge at least half the heating time with that blazer - or there abouts.

[Addendum]
Forgot to mention, when using the jet lighter, as it reaches useful temp, I've recently noticed the flame starts to go a little orange where it 'bounces' off the surface of the heater, maybe more so at the edge where the vents are (any irregular part of the surface seems more prone to show this). This may well be a useful indicator, but I need to try a few more times to see how well it works as a virtual 'clicker'.

 

[BreadStick]

If the TA is made of titanium it might be an alloy with a bit of iron in it to make it work with induction heaters?
I feel like if there was an induction sleeve in there it'd be advertised because it sounds like a lot of extra manufacturing effort to not show off.

 

[Zombietaz]

Yeah, pretty sure that's what PP said (about Ti), but Ti don't induct, so something else has to be there. just like the Tempests outer sleeve, but I reckon it's got to be internal. I wondered whether the screw holding the airflow vents could be long enough and act as the inductor target, but I don't think that would work well, and besides, it ain't long at all! The metal must be more than just conductive (I presume you mean electrical conduction not heat conduction?), I believe it must also interact with a magnetic field, or no current can be induced, hence the popularity of various steel alloys for this (along with their other useful properties).

Just on the possible options that would seem the easiest to apply and more effective as inductors, my guess is an inner sleeve between balls and Ti wall. But that may be a trade secret, so I'm content to accept I may be wrong as no way to check without pulling it apart, and even then may not be so easy to tell. I haven't noticed a magnetic effect other than the air vents, but I wouldn't know what to expect (in terms of strength of effect) so again, guesses but no confirmation.


Nice one! Well done. Can you describe the positioning of the head in the Wand? I was trying 590℉ before giving up, and going well past the cut off by switching to manual. It's sounding more and more like a positioning issue for me, despite my best efforts (I am green on IH's, so that's my excuse! )?


Shit man! Don't look at me, I'm barely ahead of you here!
So if it helps at all (but I'm sure more experienced vapers than I will give better advice), I've started using my TA3 with the vents almost fully open (85% to 90% as an estimate - I'm looking for big DTL hits, not mouth to lung), until I suss the Wand out I'm using a pocket 3-jet lighter (nothing like as powerful as a blazer), and I'm heating the top half of the thinner and longer section of the head (from where it narrows above the bowl to where it ends at the vents, that length, I'm heating exactly the vent side half with the flame only just clipping the edge where the vents start. Holding the flame about 1cm between the inner bright blue cone and the head (you'll have to adjust for the blazer, can only describe this little lighter). After about 50 to 60 seconds it's right on the mark and a pull or two starts pulling the heat through the weed in the bowl, and the big hits start coming in. At least twice I thought I'd combusted, but if so, it was only a tiny amount, it didn't go through the whole bowl.

Oh yeah, the bowl - I pushed the screen down with the wooden dowel supplied, until it was near the bottom, and it seemed to hit a stop (so I stopped! ), and is now noticeably bigger! It runs quite deep, but seems to maintain an airspace between the screen and the bottom of the bowl, preventing an attenuation of the airflow below the screen, so seems to have pretty good airflow with a quite packed bowl, more so than some other similar types of vape.

Take all that with a pinch of salt, but if it gives you something to work with, hope it helps.
Just from vids etc I'd judge at least half the heating time with that blazer - or there abouts.

This is definitely a good starting point. Any tips for how to effectively dry burn?

For the regular use I think it's going to be a little trial and error until I figure it out!