Thermal Accumulator by phattpiggie

[GoldenBud]

@VGOODIEZ while you heat the top, the heat is directed also to the bowl.. for like almost 1 minute... and also the bowl is not too far away from the top, it's not a long path for the heat to be moved.... the bowl must be hot... interesting design will be like, that there's a wood between the top to the chamber in the bottom or so. because now, a lot of heat is going through the bowl before you inhale. the bowl, the air, is set at 25c degrees, the flame is above 700c or so, somebody has to check the temp of the bowl.

when you start drawing, the bowl is stored with energy, high temp. imho, still needs to be checked

almost 60 seconds heating here

Watch Thermal Accumulator by PhattPiggie on the Goo Roo Hookah | Streamable

Watch "Thermal Accumulator by PhattPiggie on the Goo Roo Hookah " on Streamable.

streamable.com

if there will be an insulator between the top to the bottom , it will be super interesting
and here you can see, the bowl is almost inside the Induction heater..

TA/WAND

Watch "TA/WAND" on Streamable.

streamable.com

 

[My_50p_worth]

but isn’t that true

Not quite. Vapcaps cool down quicker the more you close the airport and force air through the tip. Inhaling just “carries” already produced conduction vapour. George himself has stated this on a YouTube vid too. You can verify this by heating until the click, removing the cap and checking AVB. Same with the Vapman which is also a conduction vape. If you don’t inhale then the vapour will just condense inside the vape

As @VGOODIEZ says though, all this anvil talk is derailing the thread a little. I’ll shut my mouth about it now I’m genuinely interested in this vape though, it seems like such a cool little device with a plethora of heating options and good compatibility with the existing DV ecosystem

 

[Custom Flower Hardware]

The bowl part read 175 on the terpometer after a full 30 sec quad torch lighter to the top which was 400 plus deg F.

 

[GoldenBud]

and how much after 15sec ? the herb is exposed to higher temp before inhale, but anyway what ever it is, it brings a lot of vapor, will be Anvil competitor for sure..piggie's wood craftship is amazing too

 

[My_50p_worth]

and how much after 15sec ? the herb is exposed to higher temp before inhale, but anyway what ever it is, it brings a lot of vapor, will be Anvil competitor for sure..piggie's wood craftship is amazing too

The DV stem compatibility and ability to use any size torch are also killer features

Just praying it is gonna be priced well and UK shipping doesn’t cost a bomb

 

[cptofnthng]

Anything known about pricing yet?

 

[Ramahs]

I feel a bit late to the party, but I'm certainly interested!

 

[My_50p_worth]

The more I look at this thing on insta the more I’m interested. Definitely check out PP’s Insta if you haven’t already

I actually think this is more of a DV killer than an Anvil killer. It has that same variability of hit and heater (torch size and IH) that a DV offers, but the RTL vids I’ve seen don’t seem to produce as much vapour or for as long as the Anvil. That’s not a dig, just an observation

I think this will slot in very neatly between my anvil and Vapman - and probably end up being my primary outdoor device due to being able to use a small torch

 

[GoldenBud]

I actually think this is more of a DV killer than an Anvil killer

it's exactly like the Anvil, but here's the heater is found above the chamber, not below:

you heat one part, the system wants to reach equilibrium, the enviornment is around 25C while the torch is around 900C~ or so, and some heat ofcourse is going to the air, but also some will be moved into the bowl.

the trick in the same devices is that you heat a part which is around 3-5 cm away from the bowl, and the metal of the bowl is way less conductive than the "heater" (Anvil for example Ti is 40x less conductive than Copper K value of 400~ vs 10 of the Ti)
so the bowl tends to loss heat, to the environment, but the Copper stays hotter

so if the bowl temperature is dropped after the hit, there's still some heat in the "heater" part

 

[My_50p_worth]

it's exactly like the Anvil, but here's the heater is found above the chamber, not below:

you heat one part, the system wants to reach equilibrium, the enviornment is around 25C while the torch is around 900C~ or so, and some heat ofcourse is going to the air, but also some will be moved into the bowl.

the trick in the same devices is that you heat a part which is around 3-5 cm away from the bowl, and the metal of the bowl is way less conductive than the "heater" (Anvil for example Ti is 40x less conductive than Copper K value of 400~ vs 10 of the Ti)
so the bowl tends to loss heat, to the environment, but the Copper stays hotter

so if the bowl temperature is dropped after the hit, there's still some heat in the "heater" part

You’re absolutely right but here’s the thing for me - the results in the RTL video are not the same from TM to Anvil. The vapour production and duration seem more in line with an FMJ equipped DV, at least to my eyes. AVB is also not as evenly roasted. Again not a dig, but the eyes don’t lie

Similar concept and theory, sure. Results not so much. This is where my comment about it being a DV killer more than an Anvil comes from - It seems more similar in use (which is what matters right?) to a DV

Of course, this is all very early days and we don’t have the entire picture as to what’s going on in that marvellous little device, just some videos of it being ripped and bits of pieces of technical information. It’s always fun to speculate though

 

[Abele Rizieri Ferrari]

The DV stem compatibility and ability to use any size torch are also killer features

I hadn't even thought about that because I haven't used those in so long, but that is nice. I got some DV stems and Simrell lying around here somewhere. Very excited about this vape.

 

[pxl_jockey]

Just praying it is gonna be priced well and UK shipping doesn’t cost a bomb

My brother, it’s going to be the cheapest shipping we’ve ever paid for a vape. Phattpiggie is making & shipping the TA in the UK, so you’re local! He told me he’s really excited to get this out to UK peeps when it drops and although he’s not set the price point, the guesstimate was very reasonable indeed. I’m so stoked for this one!
Also, can you please tell me what “RTL” is? I’ve seen it elsewhere in discussions and never think to ask. Thank you

I feel a bit late to the party, but I'm certainly interested!

Sorry bro but you are late. Sadly, too late. No TA for you now, come back one year!

The crazy thing is phattpiggie has said the Thermal Accumulator V1 is just the beginning and that he has other devious devices in store for those of us who dare. At this point in my VAS journey and where we are as community, I only want to add artisan/boutique devices, preferably from badass makers within our enthusiast cottage industry.

It’s so interesting and cool to me that when I look at the vaporizer landscape, the heaviest/purest/most interesting vapes are almost all made by long-standing members with a passion for their vision. It‘s exciting times we‘re living in, at least in terms of cannabis vaporization. Unfortunately, everything else seems to be a bit of a shitshow at the moment!

 

[VGOODIEZ]

It’s always fun to speculate though

It seems we definitely have that.

But being a person who has actually used this product and the other one folks are talking about, I'd say your speculation might not be accurate.

What you are not taking into account is all of the different variables that are going into what you see with vapor production in these videos.

For instance, how much flower is being used? Is the chamber packed full or a smaller dose? That will definitely have an impact of how many rips you get and how much it milks.

What kind of grind? I have been enjoying this with no grind at all but that can a negatively impact milking while it improves the flavor.

What kind of heating method is being used and for how long? Is it a torch, if so what size? Or an induction heater and if so what was the heating technique and for how long?

What you're seeing with these videos is a lot of our experiments just being thrown out there. A few of us have an Anvil to compare side by side but that is not what we are focused on right now. I can tell you from my observations that I like the following better about the TA.

1. It has better air flow. We are even working on refining that to see if we can improve it but as it stands right now it is better and more free-flowing than the Anvil.

2. In my experience thus far it does retain heat better to provide larger rips and for longer with the single heat cycle. In my experience I am not able to milk my glass more than twice with the Anvil on a single heat cycle. With the TA I have been able to get up to four rips without adding any additional heat.

In order to really understand how close or different they are we would want to set up some controlled testing with like amounts of material and the same amount of heating time with the same heating method. I don't think any of us in the group have done that because our focus isn't on how it compares to the Anvil, it's been more about getting to know the TA and how to get the most out of it.

 

[My_50p_worth]

My brother, it’s going to be the cheapest shipping we’ve ever paid for a vape. Phattpiggie is making & shipping the TA in the UK, so you’re local! He told me he’s really excited to get this out to UK peeps when it drops and although he’s not set the price point, the guesstimate was very reasonable indeed. I’m so stoked for this one!
Also, can you please tell me what “RTL” is? I’ve seen it elsewhere in discussions and never think to ask. Thank you

Oh man that’s some awesome news! I had no idea he was a fellow Brit. Now I’m even more excited to support this great idea. We need more British representation in this space. RTL is “riding the line” it’s really just an anvil marketing term. It means to fully extract just before the combustion line. Hope that helps


@VGOODIEZ -

Thanks for coming through with the clarification! I’m always happy to be wrong if it means things are better than I thought they were.

You’re absolutely right, with @ShayWhiteGrow RTL video I did make the (obviously incorrect) assumption that it was a similar setup to how an Anvil RTL is done - perhaps it should be better stated what the variables are in each vid? To call it RTL and then it not perform as good as it is capable of sells the device a little short IMO. As you’ve seen from my comment it makes it easy to think it’s not as powerful The devil is in the details, as they say


I think it would be nice to see a genuine “like for like” comparison. It would help to highlight your claims of enhanced heat retention. Those initial Anvil vids maxing out the performance did wonders for generating interest. If not a comparison (I understand some can misinterpret these as aggression) just a video showing the maximum power of the device would be awesome.

All in all, very happy to be wrong here. Just when I think I’m hype for this I hear something that makes me more hype. This last 12 months has been such an exciting time in the butane space and I hope it continues

 

[VGOODIEZ]

There are no claims going on from this side but it sure feels there are claims being made from folks who have not used it. Beyond that I don't think anyone that has one now is concerned about how it performs against the Anvil. Maybe we'll get to that but right now I was trying to clear up what might become a misunderstanding based on speculation as opposed to real world usage observations. I have said it before that this discussion and comparisons continue to derail this thread but here we are again.

 

[GoldenBud]

1. It has better air flow. We are even working on refining that to see if we can improve it but as it stands right now it is better and more free-flowing than the Anvil.

more airflow but as I see it, you heat 60 seconds instead of 30 seconds with the Anvil... it's hotter, hence more air can flow without reducing temperature much...seems like it shines with IH which is good...longer heat...

 

[Custom Flower Hardware]

PP TA .1g flower dry UNO shot kill😶‍🌫️

Watch "PP TA .1g flower dry UNO shot kill😶‍🌫️" on Streamable.

streamable.com

 

[My_50p_worth]

PP TA .1g flower dry UNO shot kill😶‍🌫️

Watch "PP TA .1g flower dry UNO shot kill😶‍🌫️" on Streamable.

streamable.com

That’s a helluva quick heatup to get AVB like that!

So that was with fresh herb? From cold or holding prior heat?

Also, am I right in thinking the hole at the top is the air intake?

 

[Custom Flower Hardware]

That’s a helluva quick heatup to get AVB like that!

So that was with fresh herb? From cold or holding prior heat?

Also, am I right in thinking the hole at the top is the air intake?

Quad torch 4 flames, concentrated, hitting 4
different parts of the TA simultaneously. It was actually a 30 sec heat from cold as I was fumbling with the video so add 10 sec torch time to the 15 -20 on the vid. Just for comparison, same heat up time for same amt and result in my other vape I have.
Edit: fresh ground herb

 

[My_50p_worth]

Quad torch 4 flames, concentrated, hitting 4
different parts of the TA simultaneously. It was actually a 30 sec heat from cold as I was fumbling with the video so add 10 sec torch time to the 15 -20 on the vid. Just for comparison, same heat up time for same amt and result in my other vape I have.
Edit: fresh ground herb

Thanks man I appreciate that! Seems from the videos I’ve seen that the TA prefers a powerful torch. I’ve also just seen that vid of Scott blasting it with a big blazer torch for all of 15 seconds, and the vapour just went on and on afterwards. That actually looked like it produced an amount of vapour that the other vape can’t do even with the XL bowl. Looking forward to confirming myself one day

Appreciate the comparison too, you know I was wondering

 

[Abele Rizieri Ferrari]

@ShayWhiteGrow thanks for hyping lol. How do you like it dry through glass, I expect it's smooth and quite cooled? And how does it compare to dry through the stem? Like you'd expect, I guess I would describe as a more luscious vapor through the glass piece?

 

[GoldenBud]

@ShayWhiteGrow thanks for hyping lol. How do you like it dry through glass, I expect it's smooth and quite cooled? And how does it compare to dry through the stem? Like you'd expect, I guess I would describe as a more luscious vapor through the glass piece?

it's a killer 1 hit vape, usually people don't use it stem only/dry usage without any cooling.... but interesting to hear about Jhook cooling usage...

 

[My_50p_worth]

Any testers got a revolve stem? Very interested to see how the TA looks on there, and also whether it provides enough cooling

 

[HughJundys]

Two on the left work great for calming the heat down. The revolve cools the vapor very well but at the expense of the glass becoming quite warm. The WPA, when not using on a bong or jhook (please try this on a jhook, so nice) gives a warm/very warm hit but tolerable. The eds gives a warm/very warm/hot hit. It gets right to the top of my tolerable range. With the revolve and the eds I'd prefer to use them for a single load (which for many a single load is going to do the trick) and not a back to back without a short cooling time out.

 

[phattpiggie]

I suppose it's about time that I said a little something, something on the subject.
Thank you @HughJundys, @ShayWhiteGrow, @VAPEHUNTER and @VGOODIEZ for the teasers and answering questions.
Also thank you to the rest of you for taking part in the conversation.

And so as to be as up front as I can be there is another version of the TA heater being worked on that will hopefully be available some time around the beginning of next year with some familiar features. That's if the prototypes are with us Nov/Dec time.
There is going to be a natural evolution of the product and maybe another larger bowl version, for shits and giggles.

All the test team are people known to me and they recieved their TA's for free. I never asked for anything in exchange other than feedback.
Between them they have a vast array of water pieces and vaporizers. More importantly I knew they wouldn't sugar coat a turd.

There will be a release of the current version this year. I'm just pulling in all the materials and working out the feasability of some aspects of the design.

Conduction/convection.
There is an amount of conduction going on in both the grade 2 titanium TA and the stainless steel Anvil.
Anodisation doesn't lie and if you check the colour of your Anvil bowl and it's discoloured it's got hot.

I said to the team that I'd know how they were getting on by the colour of their TA's.

First off this litle venture was never intended to be an Anvil/VC killer it was purely out of my desire to have a vape that was more joint like than any other out there.

Heat up times.
Torches, the bigger the torch the quicker the heat up.
As this was all new I started out gently with a VM torch, 50+ seconds.
In all honesty after running 6-7 seconds to the click with my VC I thought this was going to be a major chore.
Not so and it was refreshing change not to be anticipating the click.
I then moved up to a creme brulee style torch and usually run 30 seconds.
You can go quicker again with a bigger torch and the heater matrix is very forgiving but you can and will combust or be very close if you really push it.

Yes the Wand works but it's not ideal and the deeper in the coil the TA goes the more conduction gets introduced.

The TA was designed to have a convection bias.
The heater matrix in front of the load has a large surface area to deliver as much heat as possible in the form of convection heated air, fresh air comes in through a small hole in the top surface.

I'm currently trying out the zvs that @Pipes started the whole IH ball rolling with. Double wrap coil as to emulate the torch.
On a fresh charge the heat up time is 45'ish seconds. Again I thought this would be a turn off but the quiet wins hands down.

The restriction for glass use was a little tight but a little adjustment seems to have sorted it out.

Once you get the feel for it then you can RTC, Ride The Cherry.

Sorry no AVB shots as these two bowls were rayon and concentrate.
Please don't read too much into any AVB pictures, it's very difficult to get a shot that represents what's actually in front of you.

This video shows the rayon after it's been used. The darker top surface is where the heat hits first, the underside is where the extarct leftthe puck.
As you can see the outside circumference of the rayon has hardly changed in colour, if this was in my VC the whole thing would be very dark. This shows a lower level of conduction in the bowl area.