Thermal Accumulator by phattpiggie vs Anvil by Vestratto

[GoldenBud]

I get good flavour for the first cycle

how? stopping at the first click?

 

[RedZep]

how? stopping at the first click?

I just aim the flame half way down the chamber, and stopping at the click.The Ride the Line stuff was always just marketing. No reason you have to extract at maximum temp. I prefer lower tastier temps, mainly because the effects are preferable.

The Anvil is much tastier than people think, if they are basing their opinion on RTL usage. TA will be tastier though of it is slanted even more towards convection. Anvil seems 60-70% convection.

 

[Abele Rizieri Ferrari]

how? stopping at the first click?

Flavor is good with conditioned herb and one hit extraction. Most vapes are tasty the first hit. I'm not riding some line though, I don't consider full extraction if it taste charred, I consider full extraction when the nice flavor is done and vapor production diminishes.

 

[letter never sent]

Yeah, I can't think of a vape that tastes good when riding the line of combustion. Not much difference between Anvil RTL flavor and a Dynavap heated low on the cap with a single flame.

I heat right above the thermal battery and the flavor is good there. It tastes better if you heat higher on the oven, but I never do that, cuz I typically want to kill the bowl in a single heat cycle.

 

[GoldenBud]

almost RTL i mean. not fully RTL coffee ABV.
almost RTL of TP80/TM vs Anvil

and even the coffee ABV is somehow tastes better in TP80

 

[Shit Snacks]

100% TA does not taste as good if you do quicker full extraction higher temp however it is pretty pure which I like as doing that in other vapes can allow more potential unpleasantness from the unit itself... There are a lot of variables, I do a lot of high temp one hitters, with different vapes, sometimes you get smacks of amazing flavor, sometimes it ain't so good lol

There was a company that made a vaporizer that heated up some sort of proprietary prefilled joints.
Sort of like a smaller version of Alan's paper stem would be the closest approximation I can think of.

I can't recall the name though.

Oh yeah, for CBD right? My buddy got one and I tried it, it did not really feel like vaporization per se and it was not so pleasant but I didn't try it properly though maybe there is something there, but probably a better way to do that...

 

[GoldenBud]

100% TA does not taste as good if you do quicker full extraction higher temp

yeah because even if you heat the upper part, the herb is somehow getting a bit oxidized but still fresh mostly..
465F wooden stem WPA, around 0.1gr basket screen, with the TP80 tastes better than Anvil second click
@RedZep ok I see! interesting!! I only got hits after second click!
next time i'll try it low temps. the weirdest thing about the RTL Anvil is that even an iceolator hash had much less taste than a convection vape.

 

[Shit Snacks]

yeah because even if you heat the upper part, the herb is somehow getting a bit oxidized but still fresh mostly..
465F wooden stem WPA, around 0.1gr basket screen, with the TP80 tastes better than Anvil second click

I'm saying high temp fast-hitting quick extraction ends up with a scorch top potentially just like it would with TP80 style

 

[GoldenBud]

I'm saying high temp fast-hitting quick extraction ends up with a scorch top potentially just like it would with TP80 style

the buds I've got during the Anvil tests and now support up to 465F wooden stem TP80 without coffee ABV (fast draw isn't required (!) but a dry/wet bong is required), and the second click of the Anvil without having coffee ABV. rich buds. expensive, but rich in trichomes and not trimmed by a machine.

 

[RedZep]

yeah because even if you heat the upper part, the herb is somehow getting a bit oxidized but still fresh mostly..
465F wooden stem WPA, around 0.1gr basket screen, with the TP80 tastes better than Anvil second click
@RedZep ok I see! interesting!! I only got hits after second click!
next time i'll try it low temps. the weirdest thing about the RTL Anvil is that even an iceolator hash had much less taste than a convection vape.

Take the cooling spiral out of the Anvil as well. It has a noticeable effect on flavour.

The way I use the anvil I find it tasty. But there are levels to this game. TM2 and Sticky Bricks I found much tastier. But I imagine I would find those vapes tastier than the TA also.

If I buy a TA in the future I will be vaping low temp, then simply reheating once it stops producing vapour.

Any TA users who changed ball size/amount to improve airflow, did you find the performance effected in a meaningful negative way?

 

[My_50p_worth]

Any TA users who changed ball size/amount to improve airflow, did you find the performance effected in a meaningful negative way?

I filled mine with ~55 3mm rubies. I like the ruby better than glass performance wise

At this size, removing or adding a couple balls makes a big difference to airflow, without affecting thermal mass enough to change the performance in a noticeable way.

Putting more balls into the heater isn’t always better anyways, there seems to be a balance between airflow and mass you need to strike for best performance

I see on Aliexpress you can get ruby balls in sizes that jump up in smaller increments like 3.5. I think packing the heater with those would be an interesting experiment - you’d certainly get better airflow

Edit:

And regarding flavour with Anvil RTL hits. For me, big hits (quick fast extraction basically) naturally happen at big temps and sort of “blast” the material very quickly, so you’re always going to be losing out on flavour to some degree. Plus I kind of like that roasted herb taste for some reason, I find it comforting knowing I’ve got a good extraction too.

A lot of the elements of the plant material that make up flavour degrade pretty heavily at those “big hit” temps, so lower temp hits will always taste better. Couple that with trying to maximise convection and minimise things that distort flavour in the airpath, and you’ll get peak flavour

 

[Momor]

don't think they are so similar based on my perceptions (anvil more of a turn off)

Surprised ti see you judge a vape you didn't try for once

Naturally, that modularity also means you can change the thermal mass and “tune” it to the vaporisable material used. Different types of balls can also be used, which all change the heating characteristics and heat retention.

PhatP did just post about how you can open up the airflow more as said above!

So if you want to modify airflow to your liking with the TA you have to disassemble/reassemble it. Then you have to readjust your technique because you also change the heater profile... A real step down compared to the Anvil for me.

I think the first hit off an Anvil when aimed at the copper band near the end can be quite tasty. But the RTL hits on the "thermal battery" taste like absolute shit. Literally the worst flavor I have had from any vape.

For me the taste is worse when I ride the line with a vapcap or even my TM2

Yeah here in Netherlands we roll with tobacco which makes a slow experience because it will die down when not toking. So the reheating is another similarity for me. And I used to smoke hash most of my combustion career, slim j's, relaxed session.

I could be wrong but I think if you toke on your joint at the same pace you toke on the TA in your videos you'll not have to reheat it.
Like @invertedisdead said, reheating your TA for ~20 with a big torch is something completely different to use a small lighter for ~2s.
Also if you think about the time and gaz consumed when reheating your TA it's really nothing like a joint.
With so much differences a Vapcap could also be considered as joint like experience : you heat (2 to 4 times shorter heating time that the TA, with a simple little jet torch), get 2-3 small draws then you reheat. What's the real difference here ?

Yeah of course it's not really like a joint, but the ritual of hitting it, the way it can work well with mouth to lung, taking puffs, the way you would take puffs on a joint.

The Anvil was also advertised to do so. See that video :

A bit more than 40s of heat retention and clouds with what seems direct hits. Is the TA really better than this in this use case ?

TA was designed to work this way pulling the heat from the load of hot balls to create the hot air to then puff in the vapor, using lungs or mouth, and it's possible to heat it up once to get full extraction even for several puffs without any reheat, it is a pretty versatile design...

I don't see that big of a difference. For me pulling heat from the hot balls or from the copper thermal battery is quite the same.
You heat one part that accumulate heat almost without heating the herb then you draw air that gets hot passing through those heat reservoirs before heating the herb. What's the real difference i can see ?
I would also say that I sometimes use the Anvil wi

The Ride the Line stuff was always just marketing. No reason you have to extract at maximum temp. I prefer lower tastier temps, mainly because the effects are preferable.

Riding the line is something I love to be able to do with my vapes. I bought the Anvil for this reason and I'm happy I did because it does it very well and with so much ease.
For me there is a reason to extract at high temps because I there is a quite noticeable difference in the effects. If I take a hit that makes my AVB from brown, even dark brown to black i can really feel the different effects of this hit, even if it's wispy

Not much difference between Anvil RTL flavor and a Dynavap heated low on the cap with a single flame.

For me the difference is big enough. RTL hits with the Anvil are quite a lot smoother (a friend who uses a vapcap with bb9 stem as his DD also thought the same)

I do a lot of high temp one hitters, with different vapes,

I always thought you only milked low temp hits. I'm certainly wrong but I think it's the first time I see you write this

I don't own a TA. I wanted to but I don't see the point of a kind of on demand vape where the heat up time is ~40s+ (and then maybe even having to add heat afterwards) and using something like a crepe brulee torch for a vape is totally overkill for me. 1min heating time in a wand ?! So much energy spent for consuming so little herbs.
A lot of electric vapes are criticized for this heat up time, even conduction session ones, where it makes more sense for me, so I have trouble to understand how is that a non-issue with the TA ?

 

[RedZep]

Surprised ti see you judge a vape you didn't try for once


So if you want to modify airflow to your liking with the TA you have to disassemble/reassemble it. Then you have to readjust your technique because you also change the heater profile... A real step down compared to the Anvil for me.

For me the taste is worse when I ride the line with a vapcap or even my TM2

I could be wrong but I think if you toke on your joint at the same pace you toke on the TA in your videos you'll not have to reheat it.
Like @invertedisdead said, reheating your TA for ~20 with a big torch is something completely different to use a small lighter for ~2s.
Also if you think about the time and gaz consumed when reheating your TA it's really nothing like a joint.
With so much differences a Vapcap could also be considered as joint like experience : you heat (2 to 4 times shorter heating time that the TA, with a simple little jet torch), get 2-3 small draws then you reheat. What's the real difference here ?

The Anvil was also advertised to do so. See that video :

A bit more than 40s of heat retention and clouds with what seems direct hits. Is the TA really better than this in this use case ?

I don't see that big of a difference. For me pulling heat from the hot balls or from the copper thermal battery is quite the same.
You heat one part that accumulate heat almost without heating the herb then you draw air that gets hot passing through those heat reservoirs before heating the herb. What's the real difference i can see ?
I would also say that I sometimes use the Anvil wi

Riding the line is something I love to be able to do with my vapes. I bought the Anvil for this reason and I'm happy I did because it does it very well and with so much ease.
For me there is a reason to extract at high temps because I there is a quite noticeable difference in the effects. If I take a hit that makes my AVB from brown, even dark brown to black i can really feel the different effects of this hit, even if it's wispy

For me the difference is big enough. RTL hits with the Anvil are quite a lot smoother (a friend who uses a vapcap with bb9 stem as his DD also thought the same)

I always thought you only milked low temp hits. I'm certainly wrong but I think it's the first time I see you write this

I don't own a TA. I wanted to but I don't see the point of a kind of on demand vape where the heat up time is ~40s+ (and then maybe even having to add heat afterwards) and using something like a crepe brulee torch for a vape is totally overkill for me. 1min heating time in a wand ?! So much energy spent for consuming so little herbs.
A lot of electric vapes are criticized for this heat up time, even conduction session ones, where it makes more sense for me, so I have trouble to understand how is that a non-issue with the TA ?

Does the TA have a longer heat up time than Anvil?

 

[Abele Rizieri Ferrari]

So if you want to modify airflow to your liking with the TA you have to disassemble/reassemble it. Then you have to readjust your technique because you also change the heater profile... A real step down compared to the Anvil for me.

Yes it's all personal of course. Anvil can't really go wrong, but for that ease of use it sacrifices flavor, versatility and control.

I could be wrong but I think if you toke on your joint at the same pace you toke on the TA in your videos you'll not have to reheat it.

So? I also don't use rolling papers, it's not the same, but it's the closest experience to a j in the vapor realm.

A bit more than 40s of heat retention and clouds with what seems direct hits. Is the TA really better than this in this use case ?

Yes because the flavor retention and I haven't used it with herb yet, but with hash I can reheat a couple times and still enjoy flavor. The flavorful more convection leaning TA is also much more efficient. With Anvil the hash is done after two heat cycles. TA wins easily wins the toking experience for me, Anvil power lies in the 1 (for herb) or 2 (for hash) extraction.

~40s+ (and then maybe even having to add heat afterwards) and using something like a crepe brulee torch for a vape is totally overkill for me.

This is inaccurate though.

A lot of electric vapes are criticized for this heat up time, even conduction session ones, where it makes more sense for me, so I have trouble to understand how is that a non-issue with the TA ?

Well it's not an electric device for one thing. The heat up with these type of torch vapes is something people take for granted, just like the heat up for Anvil.

 

[Photonic]

Surprised ti see you judge a vape you didn't try for once

So if you want to modify airflow to your liking with the TA you have to disassemble/reassemble it. Then you have to readjust your technique because you also change the heater profile... A real step down compared to the Anvil for me. [snip]

[snip]

I don't own a TA.

It sounds like you really like your Anvil and are offended by different opinions? You called out SS for having thoughts without owning one, but you go on to have lots of thoughts about the TA...

IMHO, forums are for polite discussion and debate. Fanboys are okay too as long as it doesn't interfere with positive discourse.

[Edit] Didn't mean to insinuate you are not polite. I believe you have been. Kudos!

 

[RedZep]

It sounds like you really like your Anvil and are offended by different opinions? You called out SS for having thoughts without owning one, but you go on to have lots of thoughts about the TA...

IMHO, forums are for polite discussion and debate. Fanboys are okay too as long as it doesn't interfere with positive discourse.

[Edit] Didn't mean to insinuate you are not polite. I believe you have been. Kudos!

I will echo that the important thing for threads like these is to help potential buyers. Let's leave out politics here.

Both vapes seem great, and are well loved by it's community. So any backhanded throw away dismissive comments of either will end up seeming petty and biased.

 

[Momor]

Does the TA have a longer heat up time than Anvil?

The heat up with these type of torch vapes is something people take for granted, just like the heat up for Anvil

With the dual flame of my Ronx torch I'm able to "ride the line" with less than 30s of heating time (often around 25s). In the TA thread I think I saw that if you want the same result with the TA you better have a really big torch and cherry the tip of the TA. In one of your last vid you torch for 40s and get almost nothing. If I torch my Anvil for 40s, even with my small prince PB207 i get a very big bong hit.

but for that ease of use it sacrifices flavor, versatility and control

I'm not a flavor chaser at all but i also find the not very good taste wise but i can't figure what differences there are regarding versatility and control ?
You have more airflow control with the Anvil. You can also control the type of heat you want depending on where you apply heat with your torch. You don't have to go by the click if you don't want neither, right ? The only difference i can see is that the TA seems more forgiving with your heat up technique (a few people combusted with it though).
What versatility means here for you ?

So? I also don't use rolling papers, it's not the same, but it's the closest experience to a j in the vapor realm

What I wanted to point out is that in order to get the joint like experience with the TA you have to toke on it with quite higher pace than with a J. If you really go as leisurely as a J with the TA you'll have to do a few ~30s heating for a few tokes.

The flavorful more convection leaning TA is also much more efficient. With Anvil the hash is done after two heat cycles. TA wins easily wins the toking experience for me, Anvil power lies in the 1 (for herb) or 2 (for hash) extraction

But can't you do the same with the Anvil if you heat higher on the oven ?

This is inaccurate though

That's what you showed in video and also think have read those heating times in the TA thread. It would be very nice to see shorter heat up times without very big torches. I want to see it

You sounds like you really like your Anvil and are offended by different opinions? You called out SS for having thoughts without owning one, but you go on to have lots of thoughts about the TA

Sorry, i didn't want act like I was bashing the TA or "defending" the Anvil. For me the best vape of all time is the TM/TM2

SS is probably the person here I respect opinions the most so my intent was not at all to calling him out. I'm kind of surprised he doesn't have one because for me he seems to have had or at least tested all the vapes in the market but also that he usually have less clear-cut ideas opinions on products he didn't try. That's it.

I think you know it's sometimes tricky to see the real tone used on written message, maybe even more when it's not your native language.
I'm all over polite exchanges and debate.
According to you is it really polite to call me a fanboy based on one post ? Did your comment add something to the debate ?

It seems that it's not well put but i really simply try to really understand the differences, pros and cons of those vapes and why people like the TA better ?
For now I just see the better taste with the TA so I question the other arguments (maybe to much? To agressive questions or counter arguments ?).
Maybe I just unconsciously try to bash the TA so I will not want one

 

[Photonic]

Maybe I just unconsciously try to bash the TA so I will not want one

Hmm. That is an interesting idea! Maybe I should consider a similar strategy to restrain myself from picking up a TA (and/or Anvil).

BTW I'm a big fan of the TM2 myself!

 

[Grass Yes]

For me the taste is worse when I ride the line with a vapcap or even my TM2

This is not my experience. Not the TM at 10, not the FP B1 at 700F. Maybe it is just simpler to RTL with the Anvil, but as close as I have come to combustion with other devices, I never got the terrible anvil flavor. Never tried to do that in a vapcap.

 

[Abele Rizieri Ferrari]

With the dual flame of my Ronx torch I'm able to "ride the line" with less than 30s of heating time (often around 25s). In the TA thread I think I saw that if you want the same result with the TA you better have a really big torch and cherry the tip of the TA. In one of your last vid you torch for 40s and get almost nothing. If I torch my Anvil for 40s, even with my small prince PB207 i get a very big bong hit.

So seems like people have different tolerances for the wait. I'm sure someone else will think you're waiting too long on the Anvil to heat. People's patience differs, in case of TA it is well worth it for me.

Also, like I said, TA isn't per se made with quick extraction as a goal. It does that very well, but for me I'm in it for the toking experience. Anvil to me is more of a one hitter for reasons I stated above. And I think I mentioned often that these two vapes are in total different categories to me because of those reasons.

I'm not a flavor chaser at all but i also find the not very good taste wise but i can't figure what differences there are regarding versatility and control ?

Versatility because it can be used for fast extraction but also for Prolonged toking. Control because the lack of click, the stronger heat retention, and for those who are into that it's also tweakable.

You have more airflow control with the Anvil.

I don't see why?

You don't have to go by the click if you don't want neither, right ?

But you can't heat longer (will harm the clicking mechanism iirc or at least it's not good for the bowl).

What I wanted to point out is that in order to get the joint like experience with the TA you have to toke on it with quite higher pace than with a J. If you really go as leisurely as a J with the TA you'll have to do a few ~30s heating for a few tokes.

Yeah another example of the versatility

You can toke calmly as well, the reason I finish the session at this speed is more vaporizer related issue. I mean I could also take a few hits and let it cool off, bu in my experience with other vapes this will hurt flavor.

But can't you do the same with the Anvil if you heat higher on the oven ?

It lacks heat retention for that plus it handles the flavor in a way I don't like in prolonged sessions.

That's what you showed in video and also think have read those heating times in the TA thread. It would be very nice to see shorter heat up times without very big torches. I want to see it

Oh that's just a torch (the Ronxs you mention you have as well), not something for crème brûlée, which according to that picture of the heat up times takes less time.

Also consider I'm using a concentrate (hash) in stead of flower. The heater (rubies) need higher temp to extract hash, because it's more convection leaning. Anvil is more capable at extracting quickly, because the conduction heating.

 

[Momor]

I don't see why?

Because you adjust it on the stem instead on having to adjust the quantity and/or size of the balls in the heater part of the TA ?

But you can't heat longer (will harm the clicking mechanism iirc or at least it's not good for the bowl).

Judging by the number of people heating past the click with VC or Dani I don't think it's that much harmful for mechanism (those caps are quite expensive ). Going past the click with the Anvil is usually real combustion territory though.

It lacks heat retention for that plus it handles the flavor in a way I don't like in prolonged sessions

Ok, i get that.

Oh that's just a torch (the Ronxs you mention you have as well), not something for crème brûlée, which according to that picture of the heat up times takes less time.

Under 30s heating with a torch is what I personally consider acceptable/confortable but iirc the only videos I've seen where people get full extraction heating 30s or less , those people are using big ass torches like the one on the left

I'm sure someone else will think you're waiting too long on the Anvil to heat

I'm sure I'm one of the quickest!
According to Whiff's heating time recommendations in the Anvil thread it seems 20-25s to ride the line is the best you can do

I'll probably have to buy the TA and see by myself

 

[Shit Snacks]

Surprised to see you judge a vape you didn't try for once

Haha like many here I do that a lot! How else could I decide not to buy many product threads I participated in without ever trying! Just different perspective ofcourse

to modify airflow to your liking with the TA you have to disassemble/reassemble it. Then you have to readjust your technique

I prefer to readjust technique not alter the vap, was just saying how that can be done, dont think it necessary as can be controlled in other ways, like a clean screen in your chamber and loading less fine grind. Honestly part of unappeal over Anvil was also that easy airflow adjustment, like OG Omnivap I really didnt get along with well (dont want additional variable with these)

For me the taste is worse when I ride the line with a vapcap or even my TM2

VC is a non-starter for flavor regardless of how you use it imo, but my one-hitters in the TM dont go below level 6 anyway... TP80 can give some amazing one hitter RTL flavor though there are other variables

a Vapcap could also be considered as joint like experience...
The Anvil was also advertised to do so. See that video...
Is the TA really better than this in this use case ?

Yeah the joint emulation is about one heat up with two minutes of puff time, leisurely without reheating... I dont think VC is capable of this at all like TA, that is how TA came to be, and yes I never saw someone use Anvil like in that video, dont follow it well, but hadn't heard of anyone using it that way as people told me they like it for the one hitters... Anyway I think TA does it better than in that video

I don't see that big of a difference. For me pulling heat from the hot balls or from the copper thermal battery is quite the same...

But they have completely different heating elements so it makes sense the experience would be different? Hard to fully appreciate unless you are experiencing it for yourself... Apart from other design differences

always thought you only milked low temp hits. I'm certainly wrong but I think it's the first time I see you write this

Haha noop, thats specific to how I use my TM dry milking low temps most often, but like with TP80 its primarily quick one hitters through water, though I use both in a variety of other ways too... Same for other vapes, its a wide variety, and the TA fits into that variety there is no one way I use it and there are more than two ways...

dont see the point of a kind of on demand vape where the heat up time is ~40s+ (and then maybe even having to add heat afterwards) and using something like a crepe brulee torch for a vape is totally overkill for me. 1min heating time in a wand?!
A lot of electric vapes are criticized for this heat up time, even conduction session ones, where it makes more sense for me, so I have trouble to understand how is that a non-issue with the TA?

Youre oversimplifying the heat up time, I'd say 20 to 50s depending on source, ability to use with Wand is just bonus for people who have it, proper induction and coil heaters are being developed for better function and performance... Designed primarily with a torch, there is such variety with torch heat, pretty typical to have to use big torches for fast heating, part of why I was interested in TA is bc I have acclimated myself to torching quartz bangers for hot start dabs... So to heat my TA I have the RiO torch, didnt really like the product for dabs since I dont like cold start so much, but its pretty nice and consistent medium for TA. Have not yet tried with my big Blusky dab torch which is like Blazer Big Shot, flame can be a bit intense, but I'm curious for quick heat up... Its a game, analog how long you heat up and how you heat exactly, along with how you load and then how you hit, theres a lot of variance between different pieces as I have discovered and still have so much more to try it with!

So yeah its a non-issue with the TA, the heat up is comparable to the other similar style vapes as far as I know, that certainly was not even a point of consideration when I was comparing with Anvil honestly... When people complain about session conduction heat up time, part of that is that your herbs are getting wasted in the meantime because its session conduction constantly cooking, a lot of pure convection on demand actually has a long heat up time if you are talking about plug in equilibrium vapes... On demand vaping does not have to be instant per se, I certainly don't think of my TA as a long heat up time at all in practical use (the variety of ways with RiO)

With the dual flame of my Ronx torch I'm able to "ride the line" with less than 30s of heating time (often around 25s). In the TA thread I think I saw that if you want the same result with the TA you better have a really big torch and cherry the tip of the TA.

You would be able to do the same with the TA I'm pretty sure, I have not tried more than a single flame, not sure I even still have one, but others in the thread have reported very positive results with them... So yeah that is a way for faster heat up just like with Anvil it seems? You dont have to cherry, that can just help be a guide for simplicity

I'm not a flavor chaser at all but i also find the not very good taste wise but i can't figure what differences there are regarding versatility and control ?
You have more airflow control with the Anvil. You can also control the type of heat you want depending on where you apply heat with your torch. You don't have to go by the click if you don't want neither, right ? The only difference i can see is that the TA seems more forgiving with your heat up technique (a few people combusted with it though).
What versatility means here for you ?

Its more complicated than flavor, like I was saying the vapor signature, extraction profile, even if everything else was the same they would be different bc heaters are different... However they are also different in many other ways, yes its more forgiving, the way its more pure convection pulling the heat through the load, and variables I mentioned already, its more analog... Click made me feel a little more trapped, even though it can feel more regulated, its become a turn off to me (maybe from vapcap)

What I wanted to point out is that in order to get the joint like experience with the TA you have to toke on it with quite higher pace than with a J.

As I said above, I'm not sure thats even true, with a joint it holds much more and is burning and a different experience, I dont find it leisurely wasting herb thats burning, but I also find it repugnant anyway lol I will say that the ritual experience can feel joint-like native, I like popping my WPA in a hook, then it feels pipe puffing, perhaps a better analogy?

It would be very nice to see shorter heat up times without very big torches.

There are short heat up times in the thread, but yes I dont think it can be done with a small little single torch? I wouldnt want to personally, I hate those things now

Sorry, i didn't want act like I was bashing the TA or "defending" the Anvil. For me the best vape of all time is the TM/TM2

All good, youre passionate about Anvil and want to make sure people see it as you see it, just need to keep it in perspective

SS is probably the person here I respect opinions the most so my intent was not at all to calling him out. I'm kind of surprised he doesnt have one because for me he seems to have had or at least tested all the vapes in the market but also that he usually have less clear-cut ideas opinions on products he didnt try. Thats it.

Yeah all good, thanks! plenty I dont have, but I do extensive research, theres usually a specific reason why I didnt grab a particular vape... I try to keep an open mind, especially without direct experience, though I dont shy away from sharing my opinions lol

It seems that it's not well put but i really simply try to really understand the differences, pros and cons of those vapes and why people like the TA better ?
For now I just see the better taste with the TA so I question the other arguments (maybe to much? To agressive questions or counter arguments ?).

So I hope this helps you see a bit more, does take a lot of work to absorb everything and understand potential differences between similar products... A vape is much more than one relative feature!

Because you adjust it on the stem instead on having to adjust the quantity and/or size of the balls in the heater?

A little stuck on this aspect too, I think most people are not going to need to adjust this way, as I said theres a lot of variables, can control the airflow in other ways if necessary. Tinkerer person can modify it to their liking, the average person will probably like it as is and can adjust their style and expectations to match... Again fewer variables here better imo (can still attach a tip to aftermarket stems to control airflow that way)

Under 30s heating with a torch is what I personally consider acceptable/confortable

Yeah to get under 30s use bigger torch or multi flame, I dont think it much of a problem at all

 

[Shit Snacks]

Versatility because it can be used for fast extraction but also for Prolonged toking. Control because the lack of click, the stronger heat retention, and for those who are into that it's also tweakable.

Also just wanted to say this^ too! Took me a while to post the above because I had to edit so many characters to be under the limit for posting

 

[Tji89]

Anyone know how fast it takes to heat with 4 flame lighter? I only have a ronx dual and it's too big to bring around.

 

[My_50p_worth]

@Momor

I use a small pocket size quad torch and get sub 30 second heat ups for a full extraction on the TA. That’s using flower.

Only downside is the quad torch has about 4-5 bowls worth before a refuel is needed.

Best compromise funnily enough is the Firefox that Anvil users enjoy. Same heat up with much more longevity

Although, if you’re buying a TA and hoping for it to be better than an Anvil at Anvil stuff.. I can already tell you it’ll be a disappointment

The main selling points compared to Anvil is the modularity in regards to rebuilding the heater and airflow (which you’ve already dashed as hassle in your quote to me) and the true convection bias.

If neither of those interest you I’d say stick with your anvil and save your money for something more in line with your preferences.

Not all vapes speak to all people, it’s a game of personal taste and finding vapes that match up with said taste

Edit:

The TA also (potentially) wins on safety because it doesn’t have a big block of copper with an oxidised layer next to the air intake. Copper oxide nanoparticles have been shown in multiple scientific studies to cause DNA damage, cell damage, lung damage (results of which can be as severe as pulmonary fibrosis) and other nastiness. Whether or not those NP’s can actually flake off and enter the airstream is another discussion, but they’re right there on the thermal battery regardless and it’s something that should certainly be considered.

That, and a poor attitude from Vestratto regarding shipping stealth is the reason I now have a ‘21 Vong with XL pure silver FMJ instead of an Anvil. I probably won’t be going back now, the performance is so similar that it’s pretty pointless