Thermal Accumulator by phattpiggie vs Anvil by Vestratto

[btka]

I want to purchase a Thermal accumulator but it seems like they will be available not before spring. so I am playing with the idea to purchase since the TA is available an Anvil. So I would like to know the differences of both… and similarities…

I like the idea of the Thermal accumulator, that it seems to retain heat long so that you can get several hits after heating… I saw on YouTube a lot of people use the anvil for one hits with bubblers … can you also take several hits with good clouds native with the anvil?

How much herb you need to get good results in both vapes?

Can you use the stem of anvil with the thermal accumulator?

Can you use in both vapes concentrate? And how (mixed with herbs, cotton)?

Do I need the half bowl for microdosing with the anvil? Can you microdose with the thermal Accumulator?

Also thought to buy an ih.. saw a lot of people using the wand (because of swapable batteries?)? Could you use the wand ih with both vapes?

Do I need an anvil or should wait for the TA ?

And so on?

 

[RedZep]

It seems like the extended heat cycle window of the TA is not a factor when vaping flower. Since the bowl will be fully vaped long before the cycle ends.

In the videos you see of the creator puffing out endless clouds, he is using concentrates.

So for typical flower use, TA vs Anvil are effectively going to act like quick hit and done vapes. The experience will be very similar.

The advantage I could see with TA regarding the cycle window, is taking more low temp hits. Maybe allowing to finish the bowl without going to a really high temp, sort of like the TM/2.

Should be noted that Anvil seems to have less restricted airflow. (EDIT this is variable depending on chosen ball size/amount in the TA) Corrected after below comment.

 

[letter never sent]

1. can you also take several hits with good clouds native with the anvil?

2. How much herb you need to get good results in both vapes?

3. Can you use the stem of anvil with the thermal accumulator?

4. Can you use in both vapes concentrate? And how (mixed with herbs, cotton)?

5. Do I need the half bowl for microdosing with the anvil? Can you microdose with the thermal Accumulator?

6. Also thought to buy an ih.. saw a lot of people using the wand (because of swapable batteries?)? Could you use the wand ih with both vapes?

1. Yes, you can do this with the Anvil. I'd say the TA may have slightly better heat retention, and also allows you the flexibility of re-heating on the fly. It's kind of similar to the Vapman in that regard.

2. ~.1g give or take. Both are flexible with load size. I don't think the TA bowl is that much larger than the full Anvil bowl. Anvil does offer three different bowl sizes to play with, which can be nice. The XL bowl has a bit more conduction.

3. No. Stock Anvil stem can only be used with Anvil. Both can be adapted to 8mm stems however.

4. Yes. Both can do it mixed with herb or with cotton. Phattpiggie uses concentrates exclusively. A lot of people like putting some hash on the bottom of the Anvil XL bowl and then topping with flower. You get a nice conduction effect there.

5. No, you don't need the half bowl, you can just load less in the larger bowls and it will handle it fine. You can definitely microdose with both vapes; the bowls are not very large in general. Of course, what constitutes a "microdose" is different for everyone.

6. I think people use the wand with both. The TA comes with a little insert to help with wand usage. A lot of people have been digging the VHB 3D IH for use with the Anvil. Vestratto is currently working on a custom built IH solution for the Anvil as well.

I have both units and personally prefer the Anvil. I'm already more invested in the Anvil ecosystem and I find it easier to use with the click mechanism. The TA can definitely perform similarly with proper technique and it's quite nice for a joint-style session. I have the standalone heater and it doesn't play super well with the 8mm glass stems I have on hand. Fit is too loose and the heater removal tool it comes with is not great IMO. I'm not a huge fan of the USA kit for the Anvil either, for similar reasons. I much prefer the purpose-built Anvil stem, even though the cooling could definitely be better there. Bottom line, both are great vapes and you'll probably be happy with either.

 

[My_50p_worth]

So for typical flower use, TA vs Anvil are effectively going to act like quick hit and done vapes. The experience will be very similar.

I own a TA from the first drop (Brit privilege I guess) and had an Anvil from the second waitlist drop in March until two weeks ago, and I partially disagree.

TA users seem to be in two camps -

Ride the cherry (Anvil style usage)

A sort of vapman/DV hybrid style ( with this method it’s exactly like you say with the low temp hits, oh man it’s tasty hitting it that way)

TA is noticeably more convection biased, and Anvil conduction biased. Very different high signatures too. The TA is more heady, the Anvil more well rounded and lasts a little longer.

You can tell with the ABV as well, there’s next to no meaningful conduction towards the bottom of the TA bowl. I think this is why the Anvil high feels more well rounded

Airflow on the TA can be more open, more restricted or the same as Anvil. It is dependant on how many balls you put in the heater, what size balls used and how tight you pack the retaining screen in.

Naturally, that modularity also means you can change the thermal mass and “tune” it to the vaporisable material used. Different types of balls can also be used, which all change the heating characteristics and heat retention.

Balls.


In the stock config, you’re correct about the heater being able to outpace the material. That little bastard gets real hot and the wooden tool PP provides is necessary (the TA isn’t magnetic for obvious reasons)


Bowl size is roughly similar IMO - difference is that anvil is narrow and deep, the TA wide and shallow. Both great for microdosing and big hits, although I’d give the anvil a slight edge on big hits and the TA an edge on microdose


The TL;DR of this wall of text? They’re both very complementary devices, with differences in the right areas that makes them great for specific use cases.

Hope that helps @btka - and sorry if I’ve given you worse VAS

@Abele Rizieri Ferrari can probably give some great opinions on this too, he has both as well

 

[Abele Rizieri Ferrari]

I haven't used TA with herb, so I won't comment on herb specific questions which @RedZep has covered already (edit: and others as well during my write up).

Can you use the stem of anvil with the thermal accumulator?

No, only if you get the Anvil USA kit and the standalone TA you can use the stems interchangeably, they both use the 8mm standard set by dynavap. Many compatible stems in that size.

Can you use in both vapes concentrate? And how (mixed with herbs, cotton)?

Sure. I prefer a vape wool sandwich with my hash (in both devices). PP has been using rayon.

Do I need the half bowl for microdosing with the anvil?

Not really. Maybe if you want to go real low

Can you microdose with the thermal Accumulator?

Yea

Also thought to buy an ih.. saw a lot of people using the wand (because of swapable batteries?)? Could you use the wand ih with both vapes?

I don't use an IH but I am interested in the one that madheaters is developing and which should allow different setting programs for different vapes. Both devices also have non torch heating options in development.

Do I need an anvil or should wait for the TA ?

I think they complement each other well. With hash in Anvil I do a 2 fat hit extraction, with TA I can easily get ten very satisfying hits.

Maybe this will give an impression of the differences.

Instagram

www.instagram.com

(With Anvil I get two of these hits)

Instagram

www.instagram.com

And here's a video of TA with the same glass as in the Anvil video, you'll notice the difference in vapor production:

Instagram

www.instagram.com

(I don't remember how many hits and heat cycles in this setup)

 

[RedZep]

I own a TA from the first drop (Brit privilege I guess) and had an Anvil from the second waitlist drop in March until two weeks ago, and I partially disagree.

TA users seem to be in two camps -

Ride the cherry (Anvil style usage)

A sort of vapman/DV hybrid style ( with this method it’s exactly like you say with the low temp hits, oh man it’s tasty hitting it that way)

TA is noticeably more convection biased, and Anvil conduction biased. Very different high signatures too. The TA is more heady, the Anvil more well rounded and lasts a little longer.

You can tell with the ABV as well, there’s next to no meaningful conduction towards the bottom of the TA bowl. I think this is why the Anvil high feels more well rounded

Airflow on the TA can be more open, more restricted or the same as Anvil. It is dependant on how many balls you put in the heater, what size balls used and how tight you pack the retaining screen in.

Naturally, that modularity also means you can change the thermal mass and “tune” it to the vaporisable material used. Different types of balls can also be used, which all change the heating characteristics and heat retention.

Balls.


In the stock config, you’re correct about the heater being able to outpace the material. That little bastard gets real hot and the wooden tool PP provides is necessary (the TA isn’t magnetic for obvious reasons)


Bowl size is roughly similar IMO - difference is that anvil is narrow and deep, the TA wide and shallow. Both great for microdosing and big hits, although I’d give the anvil a slight edge on big hits and the TA an edge on microdose


The TL;DR of this wall of text? They’re both very complementary devices, with differences in the right areas that makes them great for specific use cases.

Hope that helps @btka - and sorry if I’ve given you worse VAS

@Abele Rizieri Ferrari can probably give some great opinions on this too, he has both as well

I don't think I would trade in my Anvil for a TA. But if I pick up a TA one day, it will be for low temp flower hits. You can do low temps in Anvil, but will need multiple heat cycles to finish the bowl. If TA can cash a bowl low temp, then for me that's it's selling point. Otherwise can't see any advantage (for me) to a TA.

 

[Grass Yes]

I don't think I would trade in my Anvil for a TA. But if I pick up a TA one day, it will be for low temp flower hits. You can do low temps in Anvil, but will need multiple heat cycles to finish the bowl. If TA can cash a bowl low temp, then for me that's it's selling point. Otherwise can't see any advantage (for me) to a TA.

That is interesting to me because I have an Anvil and do not own a TA, but I feel the opposite. TA seems pretty unique whereas my Anvil is just an improved vapcap for me.

Could just be VAS, but the TA videos really sell this device for me. I am waiting until I can get one paired with the Chaos. The TA seems like the most interesting vape in this form factor, to me, right now.

But the Anvil thread is full of folks who love it more than anything so I know it's a case of personal taste.

 

[My_50p_worth]

I don't think I would trade in my Anvil for a TA. But if I pick up a TA one day, it will be for low temp flower hits. You can do low temps in Anvil, but will need multiple heat cycles to finish the bowl. If TA can cash a bowl low temp, then for me that's it's selling point. Otherwise can't see any advantage (for me) to a TA.

This will be much the same, I think. To cash a bowl low temp you’ll need to heat it vapman style and keep doing sip hits. I’ll have a mess around with my TA and see if I can disprove this theory though.

I think the issue is inherent to butane, torching something long enough to one hit a bowl naturally raises the temp

@Grass Yes

I’d say the TA is the most unique of the “butane pen trio” due to the convection bias the other two don’t have.

The Anvil though, I’d agree with what @seki said a while ago that it has the most innovative and unique heater we’ve seen in a while, a proper bespoke solution. The TA is literally just a smaller TiTi/B0 in the pen form factor

I’m surprised nobody has thought of the TA before, it’s one of those devices that are so genius in its simplicity you look at it and go “of course you could do this, why did I never think of that”

 

[RedZep]

That is interesting to me because I have an Anvil and do not own a TA, but I feel the opposite. TA seems pretty unique whereas my Anvil is just an improved vapcap for me.

Could just be VAS, but the TA videos really sell this device for me. I am waiting until I can get one paired with the Chaos. The TA seems like the most interesting vape in this form factor, to me, right now.

But the Anvil thread is full of folks who love it more than anything so I know it's a case of personal taste.

TA looks great. But for me TA and Anvil are very similar, and it's hard to say which is better. They are just a bit different. I think anyone who owns either, will be happy. For me it's hard to justify TA right now as an Anvil owner. Although VAS hits people differently. I like to have multiple vapes but like them to all scratch different itches.

 

[Abele Rizieri Ferrari]

I have been amazed by how well it works with my glass lined stem by Aezhenn. It really gives that native feel (for someone with nostalgic feeling for the joint). It has no cooling spikes or beads or anything but it still delivers smooth and cool vapor. I actually even prefer it over my 8mm cooling stem by GVB.

I think the issue is inherent to butane, torching something long enough to one hit a bowl naturally raises the temp

Yeah this with a temp controlled heater will make it even more versatile. Yeah the log will turn it intocht even more innovative setup

I’d say the TA is the most unique of the “butane pen trio” due to the convection bias the other two don’t have

I agree, the flavor retention and prolonged heat cycle make a unique toking experience.

I’m surprised nobody has thought of the TA before,

There are glass ones with siMilar setup, but nothing in this DV evolved form factor.

But for me TA and Anvil are very similar,

For me They are two totally different devices that I will rarely use in a similar style.

 

[My_50p_worth]

@RedZep

When the TA gets a bit more established you could probably get just the TA part for fairly cheap, I think you’ll possibly be a little more enticed to try it then

I think proper convection in this form factor is definitely something worth giving a go, I used to argue the anvil was convection but hitting this has made me realise it’s not. It’s definitely a conduction vape.

It’s hard to explain but you’ll know what I mean if you get one or try a mates one day

 

[RedZep]

@RedZep

When the TA gets a bit more established you could probably get just the TA part for fairly cheap, I think you’ll possibly be a little more enticed to try it then

I think proper convection in this form factor is definitely something worth giving a go, I used to argue the anvil was convection but hitting this has made me realise it’s not. It’s definitely a conduction vape.

It’s hard to explain but you’ll know what I mean if you get one or try a mates one day

I see. That is interesting. You and @Abele Rizieri Ferrari might have changed my mind on this. It's definetely worth trying for an Anvil user it seems.

I admit the TA is more beautiful. With all the unique wood stuff going on.

I was worried about dialing it in, with no click indicator. But considering my complex morning coffee pourover routine, it will probably be a piece of cake

 

[Comfortably Numb]

I have both...heavy user here...I hardly ever touch the TA.....I can do the same things in the Anvil as the TA...only much better and easier

 

[My_50p_worth]

I see. That is interesting. You and @Abele Rizieri Ferrari might have changed my mind on this. It's definetely worth trying for an Anvil user it seems.

I admit the TA is more beautiful. With all the unique wood stuff going on.

I was worried about dialing it in, with no click indicator. But considering my complex morning coffee pourover routine, it will probably be a piece of cake

Plus, you’ve gotta support a fellow Brit Piggie’s work is beautiful, I got the bocote stem TA and it’s truly a product from a master of his craft.


The learning curve is easy, heat it like a vapman and you’ll find it very hard to combust. Once you’re comfortable step that heat right up. That’s what I did anyway

 

[Shit Snacks]

So for typical flower use, TA vs Anvil are effectively going to act like quick hit and done vapes. The experience will be very similar.

Incorrect, you can take many puffs off of the TA with herbs, or load enough using low enough temp that you need a reheat cycle...

Yeah more people posted more info haha for what it's worth I don't like to use torch vapes and I love the thermal accumulator, really nice without any click, and quite easy to use consistently. I was considering the anvil briefly before confirming I only wanted the TA so I don't think they are so similar based on my perceptions (anvil more of a turn off)

 

[Grass Yes]

I have both...heavy user here...I hardly ever touch the TA.....I can do the same things in the Anvil as the TA...only much better and easier

This make sense to me. The whole point of the Anvil to me is to make it absolutely simple. I think this is one of the main reasons for the device's popularity.

TA looks no more complicated than a vapman but it does seem to require some technique. Although I find the vapman far more satisfying than the Anvil.

 

[Abele Rizieri Ferrari]

Plus, you’ve gotta support a fellow Brit Piggie’s work is beautiful, I got the bocote stem TA and it’s truly a product from a master of his craft.


The learning curve is easy, heat it like a vapman and you’ll find it very hard to combust. Once you’re comfortable step that heat right up. That’s what I did anyway

The combination of convection favoring heating and prolonged heat retention is what makes this such a different device. When I use Anvil I wanna finish the bowl in as many few hits possible and as fast as possible (also when using stem) because heat drops quickly and flavor doesn't last long.

Also the lack of a click makes that it's hard to put them in the same category. It's like comparing an automatic with driving stick. Takes some skill to fuckup gear in an automatic, but you won't get the full control.

 

[Shit Snacks]

This make sense to me. The whole point of the Anvil to me is to make it absolutely simple. I think this is one of the main reasons for the device's popularity.

TA looks no more complicated than a vapman but it does seem to require some technique. Although I find the vapman far more satisfying than the Anvil.

Yeah that makes sense, TA has strong ritual elements, you can certainly use it for one hitters effectively, but that is what the anvil is designed to do quick and easy? I'm sure they have different signatures due to the different heater profiles as well though (I only got vapman to use with station and never tried it with torch although using the TA has built my confidence for that lol)

 

[My_50p_worth]

I think the issue as well, and I will admit I was part of the issue at the start of the TA thread and with my initial review when I received it, is the comparisons to the Anvil.

If you try and use it like one, it’s brilliant but @Comfortably Numb is correct in that the Anvil does it easier and with a reliable indicator.

The TA is something in its own category, sort of straddling the Anvil and Vapman while doing it with a real convection bias. It’s unique, it’s not trying to be an Anvil

It’s just guilty of kinda looking like one but with a wooden stem haha

Some people just wanna get fucked up and move on with their day, that’s the Anvil and always will be. It’s the best at it

 

[RedZep]

I think the issue as well, and I will admit I was part of the issue at the start of the TA thread and with my initial review when I received it, is the comparisons to the Anvil.

If you try and use it like one, it’s brilliant but @Comfortably Numb is correct in that the Anvil does it easier and with a reliable indicator.

The TA is something in its own category, sort of straddling the Anvil and Vapman while doing it with a real convection bias. It’s unique, it’s not trying to be an Anvil

It’s just guilty of kinda looking like one but with a wooden stem haha

Some people just wanna get fucked up and move on with their day, that’s the Anvil and always will be. It’s the best at it

Yeah I think the convection variable is massive.

Although I'm having such problems with my TMJ at the minute that I'm thinking of giving up my Anvil anyway. Beginning to think I can only use vapes with next to zero restriction.

If it wasn't for that I think I would be putting an order in for TA. The guy who makes them seems very talented.

Am I right in saying that TA would be better for induction heater, as copper is not a good material for induction, and will require much more energy?

 

[My_50p_worth]

Yeah I think the convection variable is massive.

Although I'm having such problems with my TMJ at the minute that I'm thinking of giving up my Anvil anyway. Beginning to think I can only use vapes with next to zero restriction.

If it wasn't for that I think I would be putting an order in for TA. The guy who makes them seems very talented.

Am I right in saying that TA would be better for induction heater, as copper is not a good material for induction, and will require much more energy?

You’re absolutely right. If you have a wand it works great, the timeout on it happens to be the perfect heating time.

Piggie has also said there will be a timed IH for the TA that basically makes the lack of click irrelevant

I don’t know how handy you are with creatively using screens and installing them as retaining devices, but if you are you’ll be able to tweak the TA airflow and thermal mass to be exactly what you desire

Although there will always be some level of restriction, you’d be surprised how open you can make it

 

[Shit Snacks]

Beginning to think I can only use vapes with next to zero restriction.

Yeah I found my TA could be more restrictive but it also depends how you use it and PhatP did just post about how you can open up the airflow more as said above!

 

[Comfortably Numb]

I think we will see more vapes like the TA....I am really digging the butane advances

 

[letter never sent]

I definitely agree the TA has more convection bias and a more heady signature. I definitely prefer the Anvil signature, which is a bit more stoney IMO.

 

[My_50p_worth]

With these next gen butanes and ballers, you really don’t need anything else. Anvil/DV/VM with a TA and a nice baller vape and there’s not much you can’t do.

That’s not to say you can’t want anything else though

I also like the recent trend towards simplicity in design. Hopefully those threads for discontinued, over engineered vapes filled with people looking for spare parts to keep it running is over. I couldn’t imagine getting attached to a device and being anxious it’ll die for good one day

So strange how after all these ideas we realised a heatable housing filled with jewellery balls was the answer