the unofficial FC bubbler thread

[Stu]

The way I look at it, Chinese glass is better than no glass. However HQ American artisan glass is far better than the China glass.

I bought a cheap chinese tube for my first glass purchase just to see if I liked vaporbonging. Well, I loved it so much that I invested in some really good American glass and gifted my Chinese tube to my friend who still uses it to this day.

But if I couldn't afford high end glass, I would pick up a chinese piece again without hesitation. Because like I said: Chinese glass is better than no glass.

 

[BigDaddyVapor]

You can't see past the discussion because you are so fixated on something so low priced. Another member was looking for a piece of glass and I pointed them in the direction of something well under what they wanted to spend and they got a good piece of work.

I'm not fixated on something so low priced. In fact, I said a more realistic price point is closer to $200. Still, a lot have said they don't want to pay that much even. Ok... Fine. That is their right. I would think a capitalist, of all people, would understand that.

 

[Tea Party]

Child in a sweatshop? puh-lease . Overly dramatic. If you want to boycott Chinese or 'foreign' goods because of your own small minded prejudice then go ahead. Fundamentally (though not with out grey bits) I'm glad to have played my small part doing business with China and seeing poverty drastically reduced, and seeing less children forced into work.

That black leaf 6 arm you have you paid what $120 for?

The retailer probably made about 50% so $60 for the bubbler, less shipping, less materials, less prep time, less depreciation. How muhc do you think the person in china leaning over a torch spinning a lathe got paid for that?

This isn't like stitching a pair of nike's together.

It's nice to see the pro government socialist support sweat shop labor.

mod note: Everyone here gets it that you don't think this is going to work. You've stated your opinion multiple times. If you post that opinion again in this thread it will be considered trolling and be infraction worthy.

 

[WatTyler]

That black leaf 6 arm you have you paid what $120 for?

Even less, I got it for €60.

How muhc do you think the person in china leaning over a torch spinning a lathe got paid for that?

More than they'd be getting if we all boycotted it.

This isn't like stitching a pair of nike's together.

Eh?

It's nice to see the pro government socialist support sweat shop labor.

Again small minded prejudice. That's OK- I expected it.

 

[Tea Party]

the person that went into making your bong maybe made a dollar making it, most likely.

The math is not hard to do.

material+ shipping+cost of tools+ shop over head all for whole sale which could have been as low as $20

 

[WatTyler]

Well done

In the 1980's 85% of China lived off of less than $1.25 a day. It's down to 15% last count (2006).

But I do still wish they got a better cut from my purchase (for most workers world wide). Anyone fancy doing a line in fair trade bongs?

 

[BigDaddyVapor]

Well done

In the 1980's 85% of China lived off of less than $1.25 a day. It's down to 15% last count (2006).

But I do wish they got a better cut (for most workers world wide). Anyone fancy doing a line in fair trade bongs?

This is the lesson China learned from Hong Kong. Everyone freaked when the Brits gave it up, they thought the shopping mecca would end up behind giant brick and barbed wire walls. I laughed and said, "Hell no... they're going to keep on letting it do, what it does... make boatloads of $$$." They picked up a few money making tips along the way.

 

[Zangano Cruel]

Like Chinese people give a fuck about us. What they want is a job. Food for their families. They don't even know it's a fucking bong. Sucks it needs to be in labor, but don't we support cheap labor in giant fields here, Mexicans picking our food, and constructing our houses, and fuck, I'm getting political again.
Sorry, I'm not going to post anymore today. Lots of contradictions today and "patents"

 

[Frederick McGuire]

Correcting people who claim that black leaf is toro is far from trolling.

And spreading information provided by a retailer about a piece is hardly misinformation.

Planetvape.ca have said multiple times that that specific black leaf piece is a Toro.
I am a bit dubious about that myself, but PV have said it, and stuck to it when questioned about it.

I'd contact them if you have any more issues with the Toro-Black Leaf thing...

 

[Frederick McGuire]

Out of context BUT IMO needs some talk. I posted in other thread, DG thread actually, the famous fritter, and he pay to my attention (DG himself) that he has a "Patent Pending" for his creation...
So my question here is,

-1.... We are openly trying to knock off Mobiuses, LKs, SGWs, Toros, BCs, Illadelphs, KCs, an so and so
at least if some blower pays attention to us and we know they will, $$$$$$ talks
So, do they have patents too??? or we wouldn't care????

So far as I Know, the DG patent is on the frit itself, and it's application in a water pipe.
There is a difference between looking at multiple sources of a generic shape, and drawing inspiration from them, and directly copying something.

I also disagree that we are trying to "knock off" those brands.
We arent trying to make a cheap, shitty imitation, we are trying to make a nice, good quality piece with positive design features from multiple sources.

-2... Will they try to SUE us if we try to imitate their products???

There are no patents as far as I am aware on any of those brands, so I'd say no

Will DG try to sue us if we buy frits and blow them from others???

That would be at his discretion, once(if?) his patent is approved.

-3... I'm seeing lots of new Log vapes and I like they help each other, no "Patent Pending" yet keep it real man and no problem there...

TBH, I'm not sure if any would be eligible for a patent on the whole. I would think only "the original log vape" whatever it is would qualify for that...
maybe if you tweaked some part of it, and patented that tweak...

_4... Is Black Leaf paying Toro for the micro showerhead can??? So PV is buried to the neck for piracy as we'll...
What guys do you think???

From what PV has said, it's actually made by Toro.
I doubt that, but

IMO Patents SUCKS big time, ask the kings themselves, Monsanto & Co

IMO, patents suck when they screw over the consumer.
Example of a patent that shits me:
apparently apple have a patent on magnetic power cords (like the macbook power cord).
So nothing else can have this cool little feature, WHICH ISN'T A MAJOR SELLING POINT...
I'm not gonna go out and but a MacBook just because of the friggin power cord, but I really want that feature on my other electronics shit...
Grrr...

But that's getting a bit off topic for the FC bubbler thread

 

[Tea Party]

fraudulent statement.

 

[Tea Party]

IMO, patents suck when they screw over the consumer.
Example of a patent that shits me:
apparently apple have a patent on magnetic power cords (like the macbook power cord).
So nothing else can have this cool little feature, WHICH ISN'T A MAJOR SELLING POINT...
I'm not gonna go out and but a MacBook just because of the friggin power cord, but I really want that feature on my other electronics shit...
Grrr...

NO patents would equal a lot less money dumped into innovation and R&D

 

[WatTyler]

right, because NO patents is the only alternative [/sarcasm]

they could be much shorter and folk would still innovate. It's human nature.

I'm not so sure how relevant patents are to bongs anyway tbh. It's come up in the frit discussion, but it's still pretty speculative.

 

[Frederick McGuire]

NO patents would equal a lot less money dumped into innovation and R&D

Which Is why I stated I don't like them

IMO, patents suck when they screw over the consumer.

I'm all for someone patenting something that they will actually be using, or liscensing it out to others, or something, but when I, as a consumer, am being disadvantaged by the patent process, I will voice my disapproval of that part of the process.

Did I say patents should be gone?
Please show me where I said that...
Here's a post from me on patents in the DG thread:

I can fully understand why an artist would want to protect their livelihood, and IMO, they should be able to.

Yep, that sound's like me advocating for no patents

False Dichotomy Tea Party

fraudulent statement.

What was? (specifically?)

 

[Tea Party]

they could be much shorter and folk would still innovate. It's human nature.

If an investor has a much shorter time horizon for making a return on the investment that R&D is then they will invest less into R&D

Which Is why I stated I don't like them

I'm all for someone patenting something that they will actually be using, or liscensing it out to others, or something, but when I, as a consumer, am being disadvantaged by the patent process, I will voice my disapproval of that part of the process.

you can buy a computer with a manetic power cable if that is highly important to you.

 

[Zangano Cruel]

NO patents would equal a lot less money dumped into innovation and R&D

BS, less patents would open to more experimenting, more possibilities for everyone, not just capitalism and monopolism. Man, you really like to talk crapola.

 

[WatTyler]

If an investor has a much shorter time horizon for making a return on the investment that R&D is then they will invest less into R&D

it's a bit of a garbled sentence, but I understand you. You would no doubt be reciting the exact same argument if patents terms were 100 years. To some degree that may be true. But how much it's going to hold back the progress and innovation of individuals or mankind? Not much. Especially applied to design matters not requiring excessive r&d and things such as magnetic cables.

edit: Isn't there some clause in patent law requiring for 'essential' bits of technology to be licensed- indiscriminately, reasonably and for a fair price? Seems to me this principle could be extended more.

 

[placetime]

When I started this thread, I never imagined anyone could get so worked up about anyone trying to have a discussion like this.

I think that there are lots of different ways that this concept can be framed. Myself, I never envisioned this becoming an organized group-buy of some kind or anything formal like that. I figured it would be more of a free-for-all (not saying it hasn't been fun and wacky ). I was thinking that through discussion we maybe could compile a good list of desirable qualities and requirements for creating a bubbler for vaporizers--an intro-level low-cost bubbler that's made from thick quality glass--and hopefully a glass blower would be interested in trying to make one.

Sure, something in the sub-$100 range might not be worth the time of some big name glass-blowing person/company (depending on your marketing perspective). But a small shop--say, for example, one guy in his garage who knocks out a handful of bubblers a month might find this an interesting --and profitable-- challenge. With a solid set of user-led requirements compiled, I think that it's possible a blower could pop up and say "I can build something kinda like that. Here's a sketch of what I can do for this price. Any takers, PM me." I'm not thinking about suggesting that anyone duplicate/copy anything. And, I'm guessing that anything under $100 will be so simple that it's not really patentable (but I know even less about patent law than I do about glassblowing, so…). There are numerous enough examples of quality US-made sub-$100 bubblers that I think it's safe to say that this idea is "possible".

I was envisioning kinda sorta what happened in the Leviathan thread, with a blower taking interest in what people had to say, telling us that he what he could/would make and saying how much he would charge for it (let's skip the gory details about the end of that one, at least in this thread, for now at least, I hope).

I think that same concept can be translated into more of an open source-ish free-for-all, if the discussion is in its own thread (like this one) instead of one particular blower's thread. Lev can't/won't/whatever make a sub-$100 bubbler. Outside of the Leviathan thread, it doesn't matter that Lev isn't going to make one. That just means less competition for anyone who does make one.
Heck, for all we know, there may be some blowers waiting in the wings right now, patiently listening for more input about what we want built.

 

[Frederick McGuire]

you can buy a computer with a magnetic power cable if that is highly important to you.

That was an example of a broader point...

@ Placetime
Well said

As for specifics,
IMO a showerhead, placed fairly close to the bottom of the can, would provide enough diffusion/filtration for anyone's needs.

Anything over that is just indulging on a good thing

 

[Zangano Cruel]

This is taken from another post in this forum. So, "if we modify something to make it better and different from the original product (besides that original product was invented by someone else before him) we are ok" , this is what I understand when I read this, opinions

Zangano Cruel said:
With all respect, who invented the frit for chemical use before anyone??? I'm sure there's a patent as well.

Yes, Ted Dreshel patented the gas washing bottle which bears his name in 1947. Patents run for 17 years. I think I met Ted briefly back in the 80's, a little fuzzy.
Thing is, there are novel features to my product which of sufficient utility (can't use a dreschel bottle as a wp...you saw how that worked out.) to qualify as a new invention which is an improvement over prior art.

The general feeling I get is that most posters here agree that my invention is an improvement over prior art. I certainly think so.

 

[Zangano Cruel]

That was an example of a broader point...

@ Placetime
Well said

As for specifics,
IMO a showerhead, placed fairly close to the bottom of the can, would provide enough diffusion/filtration for anyone's needs.

Anything over that is just indulging on a good thing

Or little holes, like "ho ney co mb" (I don't want to be sued jjajajajajaja percs or frittata very low in the can and small water volume, yes!!!

 

[havealight101]

Has anyone considered starting a thread called something like "the unofficial high-end connoisseur FC bubbler thread"?

That's not what I personally am looking for, but it's sounding like there needs to be a place for people to discuss things like that outside of a discussion of sub-$100 bubblers (which is what we're trying to do here in this thread).



Edit: Another bubbler that I consider to be a cheap quality bubbler is the Vaporbrothers Mini. in fact this one might be closest to fitting people's requirements so far (imho):

http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/vaporbrothers-vapo-bubbler.5118/#post-250685

It's currently $89

Why doesn't someone ask VB if they'll gridd the slits(possible??). I think that would be enough diffusion, and I like the shape of it. Seems like a good fit. Vape company doing the FC bub.

 

[Tea Party]

But a small shop--say, for example, one guy in his garage who knocks out a handful of bubblers a month might find this an interesting --and profitable-- challenge.

if it's done on a lathe it won't be profitable or worth his time at that price point.

mod note: stop derailing this discussion. infraction given.

 

[Zangano Cruel]

Do all glass blowers use a lathe??
Do you need a lathe for a bubbler without a fancy base??

 

[BigDaddyVapor]

Why doesn't someone ask VB if they'll gridd the slits(possible??). I think that would be enough diffusion, and I like the shape of it. Seems like a good fit. Vape company doing the FC bub.

I asked a similar question of VB when he posted. If they made those cuts, vertical into the curved section, it would essentially turn it into a showerhead.