The Tempest by Mad Heaters & Phatpiggie
- Thread starter oddjobold
- Start date
General Disaster
Of cabbages and Kings.
If I had to guess, I'd judge the rubies have lower conduction to capacity ratio? So it takes more heat, but that heat can't spread through them so quickly? But on the other side, they'll hold more heat for longer, but (depending on number, size and shape) release that heat slower - so maybe better for sustaining long slow draws?
But that's not going to be an equal effect (reverseable equation) since it's air/ruby conduction that effects the heat going out, while it's Ti/Ruby and Ruby/Ruby conduction that spreads the heat going in.
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simba
@weedanwine
Why would the change in shape make burning herb more likely?
VapingYogi
Pranayama; of a sort.
I have had a bit of time to play with some 2mm vs some 3mm Zrc and I get more reliable results with the 3mm... I didn't realize I was using 3mm until I checked 
but I took out the smaller Zrc when I put in the boro and then used 3mm by mistake but now that I think about it, I have been much happier with the 3mm, it stabilizes quicker with the larger balls but I have noticed I keep closing the airflow on the cap.
The balance is trying to find something that holds the heat for long enough to clear the bowl while providing the experience you are looking for and so far I have been using the 2mm boro in my j-hook or rig when I want to do back to back bowls, but when I want to sit down and "enjoy" a bowl I will go with the 3mm Zrc
NOTE: this was just from me playing around with a Mary and a Tiodw that I borrow with bunch of rubies... I am using the Screwballs gems in my testing so I put the details on the Screwball thread, probably should have been in the "compare your balls thread" but anyway - the post is here
but I took out the smaller Zrc when I put in the boro and then used 3mm by mistake but now that I think about it, I have been much happier with the 3mm, it stabilizes quicker with the larger balls but I have noticed I keep closing the airflow on the cap.I have been playing around with Rubies just because I have a bunch of sizes (4mm, 3mm, 2.5mm, 2mm) and some gem cut ones (2.5mm); spherical gems, don't seem to transfer heat as efficiently between gems as there is so little surface area in contact with each sphere. This is where as the gem cut rubies see to shine as flat surfaces enables better transfer of heat between the gems which makes it way more stable. It also seems to create a longer airpath because of the significantly increased number of gems that fit into the same space.
The balance is trying to find something that holds the heat for long enough to clear the bowl while providing the experience you are looking for and so far I have been using the 2mm boro in my j-hook or rig when I want to do back to back bowls, but when I want to sit down and "enjoy" a bowl I will go with the 3mm Zrc
The shape of the gem cut rubies increases the number of rubies that can fit into the same space, it also increases the surface area in which the gems are in contact which seems to create a more stable temperature. The increased number of gems creates a natural draw resistance as it decreases the spaces between gems; being more of them there is also an increased surface area in which air is in contact with the rubies giving the air more time to heat up and that seems to lead to needing to run gem cut rubies at a lower temperature than spherical rubies.
NOTE: this was just from me playing around with a Mary and a Tiodw that I borrow with bunch of rubies... I am using the Screwballs gems in my testing so I put the details on the Screwball thread, probably should have been in the "compare your balls thread" but anyway - the post is here
someTooL
Well-Known Member
Checking in after a weeks usage.
Believe the hype, crave the release. Has brought me back to appreciate the “joint like” experience and given my glass utilization a needed break.
Was worried after reading about all the adjustment options, ball sizes, heating techniques, stem choices, etc that I wouldn’t enjoy. Not bad at all. Very intuitive. Maintenance seems to be a breeze too.
And biggest surprise to me, I’m not even missing hearing a click!
Believe the hype, crave the release. Has brought me back to appreciate the “joint like” experience and given my glass utilization a needed break.
Was worried after reading about all the adjustment options, ball sizes, heating techniques, stem choices, etc that I wouldn’t enjoy. Not bad at all. Very intuitive. Maintenance seems to be a breeze too.
And biggest surprise to me, I’m not even missing hearing a click!
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Chaosgerbil
Member
I'm convinced you're waiting to release on 4/20.Not likely I'm afraid, still waiting for some updated parts and the discs to be finished.
General Disaster
Of cabbages and Kings.
Have to come back to that later - working now so can't take the time to read properly, but cool stuff!
Yeah, I found that! And I realised that it's quite liberating, and I think more important with the very low heat capacity of a normal DV, where a tiny bit too much or too little heat can spoil the whole thing. Pest (and TA) have much more leeway to play about.
CBD
Well-Known Member
No worries! Can't waitNot likely I'm afraid, still waiting for some updated parts and the discs to be finished.
General Disaster
Of cabbages and Kings.
Yeah, this makes much sense! Having a range of sizes and materials to actually try, is I think going to give much better results than trying to calculate it all based on physics, it's far to many variables to be worth it (for mere mortals, anyway!). But brains are really good at spotting patterns even if not understanding why, and then extrapolating and predicting, based on real experience not numbers. Which is why AI can be so effective, separates the wood from the trees.
When you say "enjoy", do you mean taking your time rather than going for the fast big hit?
Interesting point here, I think, is the gems have a higher surface area on average as you say, and I think the actual friction of the air molecules being forced into the smaller gaps (higher pressures causing more interaction between gas molecules and the increased area of the ruby surfaces) effects airflow too. It's not just smaller gaps constricting flow, and added to that, the coefficient of friction tends to decrease with increased temperature, so theoretically, as the head gets hotter, the airflow should increase! (I won't mention how small that change probably is!
).So there's some real complex shit going on in there on top of the other variables! Not really saying much, but I find these things interesting to consider (even if they just tell me I've no chance of working out what's really going on in there without just trying things!
).Just call me pedant!
General Disaster
Of cabbages and Kings.
Soon enough, but far far too long away!
[Ed]
Sorry, it was hoped to be late March, but looking more like another month, and won't happen until it's all done and ready, so it's a bit of a waiting game, but keep an eye out here and/or on the MH website, and I'm sure you'll pick up the news when they hit the streets!
Posts from @Brenyo are the one's to watch for, he being the man in this instance.
Cheebsy
Microbe minion
Hah! Did you read the post at the top d this page?
Jojofernz
Well-Known Member
Really gotta love the simplicity of this thing especially when paired with a Reload
General Disaster
Of cabbages and Kings.
Jeez! Yet more 'pest porn! I'm gunna go blind at this rate! There's hairs on my palms already!Really gotta love the simplicity of this thing especially when paired with a Reload
Just curious, but what temp setting are you using, and is that up to the flashing light ending, or all the way to the time-out on the Wand?
Jojofernz
Well-Known Member
So I do 590f til timeout first bowl, then consecutive bowls I pull at the light going solid.Jeez! Yet more 'pest porn! I'm gunna go blind at this rate! There's hairs on my palms already!
Just curious, but what temp setting are you using, and is that up to the flashing light ending, or all the way to the time-out on the Wand?
vappingallnight
Well-Known Member
So how dirty do your balls get? ^.^Really gotta love the simplicity of this thing especially when paired with a Reload
I thought people were recommending to heat it in the opposite orientation?
Also, beautiful stem. The metal stripe between the two woods looks great with the raw TI colour.
VapingYogi
Pranayama; of a sort.
Indeed, if I want to have a joint like experience; when I have time to spare or want more time to clear the bowl.... I use the 3mm Zrcs... so far they have been the best combination when leaning towards a longer session / longer heat retention.
as compared to when I want to clear a bowl quickly or do a few back to back, the quick heat and cool of the boro suits the purpose better...
interestingly that isn't the same when using cotton/rosin; I tend to only use boro because the heat and cool is quicker and more predictable which is perfect for small dabs of rosin on a bed of cotton.
I mean this is why I do all the silly tests I do because as you say there are patterns we mortals can follow without a calculatorInteresting point here, I think, is the gems have a higher surface area on average as you say, and I think the actual friction of the air molecules being forced into the smaller gaps (higher pressures causing more interaction between gas molecules and the increased area of the ruby surfaces) effects airflow too. It's not just smaller gaps constricting flow, and added to that, the coefficient of friction tends to decrease with increased temperature, so theoretically, as the head gets hotter, the airflow should increase! (I won't mention how small that change probably is!
So there's some real complex shit going on in there on top of the other variables! Not really saying much, but I find these things interesting to consider (even if they just tell me I've no chance of working out what's really going on in there without just trying things!
Just call me pedant!
that can make for an interesting change in experience.... what's fascinating is that the balls in the cap of the Tempest.. it changes the experience subtly - sort of like swapping Dynavap tips... the differences are subtle - but noticeable and eventually I think most people will find one setup they like the most and then stick to it... or you don't and end up with one of those collections *coughs* with so many tips that just don't get used... or you end up changing the balls every other day just for a change.What interests me is not what I can measure but what I can experience... the gem cut does all the things you mentioned, decreases the space, increases the pressure, increases the friction and surface area and indeed - the vapor coming out of a device with a different gem configuration could technically be hotter than we expect - one of the reasons for this is most of the testing currently has been done with spherical gems and only focus on size. I know Cal is going to be doing some testing with a thermal imaging camera so hopefully we will get some insight there. The experience when using gem cut is that you get the same roast from a lower temperature setting on the PID, it does also reflect well on the vapor temperature as the gem cut seems to keep the feeling of the vapor as cooler... only I don't think these gems would work in the Tempest well.
Best bet is to sign up for the Newsletter as @Brenyo said in a earlier post.
It's interesting that 590f (310c) until timeout for me puts me past the third mark of the VI and it will sit at the third mark for 20 seconds before moving backwards.
When I do my first heat from cold / room temperature, I run the wand at 260c until timeout (500f) and I am getting it heated to the third mark or just after the second click sounds.
I just realized I moved the wand insert to use it with a different device and its in a different position to "normal" - I am going to play with that for a while and make sure its not just that its to high in the wand.
EDIT: I dropped the wand insert down by about 3mm and 265c (509f) until timeout for the exact same experience.
my balls are stained brown tbh and I heat it with the cap above the bowl, some vapor still escapes up and gets on the balls that creates a stain after repeated heating cycles, heating it with the bowl below the cap helps with kief falling through the screen or if you are using concentrates it helps stop it dripping - but that doesn't stop the stains
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Hi everyone. New happy Tempest owner hehe (for a few weeks now) :-). All I wanna say is I finally managed to completely switch from joints to vapes and this was my main goal!
I also got rid of my TM2, because I prefer MTL and struggle with that on TM2. Now Tempest and Woodwynd are my perfect daily go to.
I just would like to add some colours on to my full Ti Tempest and I wonder if Radiator Heatshields (sleeves) will be available on it's own - I really need green one, but at the moment I can only see radiator inserts or full sets (Radiator + Heatshield)?
I also got rid of my TM2, because I prefer MTL and struggle with that on TM2. Now Tempest and Woodwynd are my perfect daily go to.
I just would like to add some colours on to my full Ti Tempest and I wonder if Radiator Heatshields (sleeves) will be available on it's own - I really need green one, but at the moment I can only see radiator inserts or full sets (Radiator + Heatshield)?
VapingYogi
Pranayama; of a sort.
here is the link you are looking for (I hope)
kegstandman420
Well-Known Member
Yeah I even have some little res spots on my wand adapter. I think while it's heating some comes out of the cap where the air holes are. Haven't cleaned the balls but waiting to order some before I take that plunge. Think I'll try the 3mm Boro that seems to give more of a different result vs rubies.Indeed, if I want to have a joint like experience; when I have time to spare or want more time to clear the bowl.... I use the 3mm Zrcs... so far they have been the best combination when leaning towards a longer session / longer heat retention.
as compared to when I want to clear a bowl quickly or do a few back to back, the quick heat and cool of the boro suits the purpose better...
interestingly that isn't the same when using cotton/rosin; I tend to only use boro because the heat and cool is quicker and more predictable which is perfect for small dabs of rosin on a bed of cotton.
I mean this is why I do all the silly tests I do because as you say there are patterns we mortals can follow without a calculator
What interests me is not what I can measure but what I can experience... the gem cut does all the things you mentioned, decreases the space, increases the pressure, increases the friction and surface area and indeed - the vapor coming out of a device with a different gem configuration could technically be hotter than we expect - one of the reasons for this is most of the testing currently has been done with spherical gems and only focus on size. I know Cal is going to be doing some testing with a thermal imaging camera so hopefully we will get some insight there. The experience when using gem cut is that you get the same roast from a lower temperature setting on the PID, it does also reflect well on the vapor temperature as the gem cut seems to keep the feeling of the vapor as cooler... only I don't think these gems would work in the Tempest well.
Best bet is to sign up for the Newsletter as @Brenyo said in a earlier post.
It's interesting that 590f (310c) until timeout for me puts me past the third mark of the VI and it will sit at the third mark for 20 seconds before moving backwards.
When I do my first heat from cold / room temperature, I run the wand at 260c until timeout (500f) and I am getting it heated to the third mark or just after the second click sounds.
I just realized I moved the wand insert to use it with a different device and its in a different position to "normal" - I am going to play with that for a while and make sure its not just that its to high in the wand.
EDIT: I dropped the wand insert down by about 3mm and 265c (509f) until timeout for the exact same experience.
my balls are stained brown tbh and I heat it with the cap above the bowl, some vapor still escapes up and gets on the balls that creates a stain after repeated heating cycles, heating it with the bowl below the cap helps with kief falling through the screen or if you are using concentrates it helps stop it dripping - but that doesn't stop the stains
General Disaster
Of cabbages and Kings.
Great post! Thanks @VapingYogi!
And those sentiments are so much in my way of thinking too! I absolutely LOVE the thoughts and talk about the science of it all, but when it comes to actually making something, or making a controlled change for a particular effect, it's so much too complex for us to work out, when we have such excellent computers built in that work far better with intuition (I call it that for simplicity, basically saying it's not numbers being crunched as we think of calculations). It's like the intellectual part is an abstraction that sometimes gives an insight that can lead to new experiments, but only goes so far in practical terms.
FYI: with the Wand, so far for the biggest hit in one draw, I find going to the end of the flashing light @ 590℉ (310℃), with VI on third line or a fraction over, then take a gentle DTL to start the vapour (just a light terpy draw) and to heat up the internal parts (bowl etc), then back in the Wand for another 10 secs or so and the VI goes back up a fraction over third line again, and then pull DTL for all I'm worth (wheeze!). That pretty much empties the bowl leaving only a light second draw to be had. Obviously needs the bowl to be correctly packed etc and pest set for high airflow. I tried adding more time on the initial heat up, but it either doesn't quite get there (takes a few tokes to clear), or it scorches a bit of the weed, while the above method gets it as even as I've seen on any vape but nicely toasted (not to the edge of combustion though, deliberately). I reckon taking that second top-up on the Wand could be extended to evenly toast it further.
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Jojofernz
Well-Known Member
I only heat it opposite when I am adding wax to keep it from melting down. With flower though doesn’t matter. Balls have gotten dirty after long heavy uses but easy enough to get back to clean!
Thanks a lot!
Not sure why I couldn't find it, but thats exactly what I was looking for. Now, just need them to become available :-)
Thanks again.
General Disaster
Of cabbages and Kings.
This is interesting that some are getting their spherical heat capacitors a little scruffy!
For whatever it's worth (little most likely!), the inside of the heater, where the bowl sits, looks like new, and the balls as best I can see with a strong light, show no staining or marking at all. I couldn't tell it's been used!
I can't say if this is why, but I always heat the pest in the Wand in a near to horizontal position (I use MH's Wand stand, but the other way round - facing front not back, which lets it stand on it's side (with something behind to support it on 'back' side of wand so it doesn't topple over onto it's back (display up)) with the coil's axis horizontal. The pest then can rest in there, and pushing it in until it touches the glass adapter at the back, then gentle release, and it slides out the hole by 1 or 2mm and stops and hangs there horizontally (within a few degrees). A small object (~½" high) to rest the mouthpiece on helps if it's unsteady. Then just double-click the button to start heating.
Maybe it's coincidence but it seems to keep the head completely clean.
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TedJones
Well-Known Member
+1. Wanting a blue to go over the Ti & debating on just getting a second all blue unit and switching the sleeves & maybe mouthpieces
Yea the one’s you can see could be showing you their cleaner side though
Have you removed them yet?
I swapped mine out for Zirc 3mm. What surprised me the most was how discolored the original's were. Some of them scorched ..
No concentrates so wondering if it was abv getting re-heated up in there causing, or the darker ones have been on the outer edge against the cap the whole time with the flame to close ..
At any rate, I left my preferred config and didn't clean it, to get a good side by side. First thing I notice was better flavor! Attributing this to the cleaner Zircs I put in. That was a surprise! After quite a few bowls now, I can feel the air getting through the cap easier. Been compensating by closing the cap airflow down just a bit. Since there are fewer in there, it might not be holding heat for as long. Not an issue for my style and can always add a bit more heat if needed. Have we mentioned the versatility of this thing yet
