Discontinued The Sublimator

[Bob Loblaw]

You stated that you purchased from someone 2nd hand. He must of ran it incorrectly before given to you

No flame no argue. Not tryin to cause trouble

When you tell someone that it's their fault, without any supporting facts...that's causing trouble.

If you aren't an official rep for Sublimator, it might be best not to represent them here unofficially ...because so far, you are just getting myself and I am sure others, pissed off with statements like that.

and has been repeatedly doing so since i first brought this up. yes there was a previous owner, but the drops happened while i was using it. as well as the fact that EVERYONE's damn unit is having this issue. so, yes you are arguing, and yes, by limiting the issue to the previous owner and ignoring all else and most of all by saying that their even is an 'incorrect' way to use it, you deny all previous statements by the company and it's rep as to 'proper use' BEFORE it was purchased by MANY FC MEMBERS and readers, and that the 'correct' use that was LATER added is still giving people the SAME trouble. sorry for so much capital letters, but you seem to be constantly forgetting facts and since people don't read the entire thread i want to make them clear and hope that you will remember them so i don't have to keep repeating them to contradict your inaccurate assessments.
no flame, no argue, no trouble. just clarity.

I would like to know if it's because the resistor is underrated and its resistance is changing or what. Is it the same resistor in the E-nail? I rarely ever run mine max temp just the odd 5 minutes on max to accelerate heating. My units seen a lot of on time over the passed few months and there's been a definite drop in power, but max temp still would still spark a cherry up in any bowl. I hope that the sublimator team figures out a new resistor and releases the Ti before it becomes a real problem. I still feel a little sore about the price tag and how soon it'll need repairs compared to my trusty 4 year old almost always on dabuddha. The Sublimator does pack the most punch per hit out of any vaporizer I've tried though, so I'd really like to keep it around.

agreed, i love this thing, which is why i am that much more pissed. if not i'd just repair it and sell it off at a loss. if we are funding early development and they are working on better fixes like what appears to be a teflon heat shield on the top in that double tube video or a better heater/controller, then fine. be honest about it. acknowledge the cost and lack of functionality and keep improving it. but this evasion and feigned ignorance is beyond off-putting to say the least

 

[Oscar_Milde]

Tommi, can you please explain how you are so sure that the recent sub problems are due to user error? You speak with a level of surety that is seemingly inappropriate without official, factual data to back your statements up...

 

[Tommii]

Tommi, can you please explain how you are so sure that the recent sub problems are due to user error? You speak with a level of surety that is seemingly inappropriate without official, factual data to back your statements up...

I base my evaluations on the things I did, the misuse of the device led to failure. That's why I said that I can't make an official statement. I'm trying to voice my own opinion on the situation. I have no intentions to blame anyone with any reasons to break a beautiful device like this.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

I base my evaluations on the things I did, the misuse of the device led to failure. That's why I said that I can't make an official statement. I'm trying to voice my own opinion on the situation. I have no intentions to blame anyone with any reasons to break a beautiful device like this.

since your evaluations are based solely on your own experience and you are choosing to then assume that we are all equally to blame as you were, then you are not voicing an opinion. maybe if you can't seem to differentiate your own experience from others it would be wise to not speak about anything other than your own.

When you tell someone that it's their fault, without any supporting facts...that's causing trouble.

If you aren't an official rep for Sublimator, it might be best not to represent them here unofficially ...because so far, you are just getting myself and I am sure others, pissed off with statements like that.

or as tweek said here.

 

[Darb]

IF these issues are from overheating then it's a design flaw. The dial shouldn't let me turn the temp up enough to do damage. Just like most cars have a RPM limiter.

 

[vakedcow]

Interesting tensions...

Still waiting for the further delayed 220 volt version.. probably will include some other improvments then, at least I tell myself that to keep me from ordering one with a voltage downsteper
..seems justifed with all that comments here :-)

 

[Mister G]

For my first try at sublimating, I ordered a UFO kit, supposed to be here tomorrow. With all the talk about the uncertain lifecycle of the Apollo heater I thought it better to try the analog and wait until the electric versions are more field proven. I admit I am a bit skeptical about this thing's reported effects, but I guess I'm chasing the dragon like everyone else.

Am planning to do initial UFO heatup on my gas stovetop, then supplement with a chef's butane torch. I'll try to report how well it works and hopefully I've watched enough vids to be able to dial this thing in without too much trouble.

 

[Tweek]

I base my evaluations on the things I did, the misuse of the device led to failure. That's why I said that I can't make an official statement. I'm trying to voice my own opinion on the situation. I have no intentions to blame anyone with any reasons to break a beautiful device like this.

We know you are not trying to be a bad guy here, Tommii...but you seem set on the idea that these things are slowly tanking because of your sole experience. Even after we repeatedly stated that we are not running these things full tilt.

If you look back in the thread, I am pretty sure at least one or two of us told YOU that dabbing at red was too high. When Enrico actually spent some time here, he warned us all very early, and we listened.

All this being said, it still does not add up. Why not add some sort of limiter? Why not put a warning in the instructions? Why test these units in the factory at full blast, when you know doing so in real life will cause them to fail?

Why not simply log on and say "Guys, I understand your frustration, this was unexpected and we are looking into it. We apologize and appreciate your business"

See how simple that is? Instead, it seems the blame is being piled on us.

 

[Been Vapin]

Haze Double deckers and edibles for breakfast!

 

[stickstones]

@Tweek

Instead, it seems the blame is being piled on us.

are you picking up on this from PV and enrico, or just Tommii?

 

[Tweek]

@Tweek



are you picking up on this from PV and enrico, or just Tommii?

Tommii has been sending suggestions that he is in contact with Enrico and these are his responses. Not from PV at all. This is why I suggested he not try to represent Sublimator in this thread, if he has not been asked to do so, as it is just complicating the issue and causing frustration.

There was also a rep around here at one time...not sure why they have not at least come in to discuss the matter or reassure us that it's being looked into.

I have also looked into the option of warranty exchange, and it will cost me another $40 or so for shipping it there and back. Most manufacturers at least cover return shipping.

At the end of the day, how hard is it to have an official voice pop in once in awhile...especially when there seems to be an issue with the product?

 

[Monsoon]

I base my evaluations on the things I did, the misuse of the device led to failure. That's why I said that I can't make an official statement. I'm trying to voice my own opinion on the situation. I have no intentions to blame anyone with any reasons to break a beautiful device like this.

Echoing what Tweek said, I think it's important you clearly differentiate between your own opinions and official responses from Enrico/Sublimator to avoid confusion. Also could you maybe clarify what your exact relationship is with them is so we're all clear?

 

[Vapodudule]

Please do calm down gentlemen, these issues are going to be fixed for sure. The design of the unit provides uncontested results. if an heater element is in fault, i am sure enrico will make his job of manufacturer, as he already done it.

This morning i had a nice UFO breakfast, the first load was deep darkness so i had to do another with bubble, what a breakfast! damn high tolerance!

 

[King]

I made a spreadsheet to help you find the most cost efficient way to make your own Sublimator kit.

Some Notes:

• This is in early early .01 alpha stage. I left every cell and sheet open and unlocked so people can tinker, I'm open to suggestions on how to improve this as I work on it.

• I made this spreadsheet based on prices found on PlanetVape.ca

• Most of the values are pulled from Sheet 2

• Changing the number in Column B on Sheet 3 (first sheet) will change which parts you're looking to pick up and therefore change which kit is the best value as a starting point.

• Currently only quantities of 0 and 1 are supported

• The Tube Cap quantity is linked to the Base quantity. The price of the Tube Cap is extrapolated from the price of the Base Launcher Tube Kit.

• If you change the value in B25 to TRUE it will drop the price of the UFO down to 0 in electric kits per the Sublimator promo that runs until Oct 20th

• The values in column O rows 21, 22, and 24 are the lowest priced options from those rows. So the kit in O24 is the lowest priced kit to buy as a starting point.

• There are a lot of half finished and half-baked ideas floating around in this spreadsheet, I'll remove them once I figure out which direction I'll be taking.

There is a lot left to fix and clean up before this is worthy of public use. In my tests the results for the lowest priced kit to buy (and which items to buy individually) from any combination of Sublimator parts has been correct, but feel free to verify on your own. I take no responsibility if you purchase $1,500 worth of Sublimator screens instead of an actual kit.

I'm open to collaboration if anybody thinks they have a better method.

Here is how I'll be phasing this:

• Alpha: Works as long as you follow the strict set of rules outlined, wont be pretty.
• Beta: Works but all of the math and cells will be open for editing, you can still screw everything up if you don't know what you're doing
• Release: You'll have a list of options for building a kit, it'll output the kit to buy as well as which individual items to add to it. It may show the price of total saved over retail. I'll also include pictures and descriptions of each individual component.

You can download the spreadsheet from:
Build-A-Sub alpha1.xlsx (17 KB)
https://mega.co.nz/#!Mw1jzKbQ!LPXoaCY_FH2BGXeMNkNVNmpfno5Jlsk6sW3bT1neqMA

 

[Tweek]

Please do calm down gentlemen, these issues are going to be fixed for sure. The design of the unit provides uncontested results. if an heater element is in fault, i am sure enrico will make his job of manufacturer, as he already done it.

This morning i had a nice UFO breakfast, the first load was deep darkness so i had to do another with bubble, what a breakfast! damn high tolerance!

I know you love the unit as much as we do...but we really don't need anymore unofficial promises at this point. Thank you.

 

[PlanetHaze]

Just to chime in with some factual info. We have been doing the warranty replacements / repairs on behalf of Sublimator while they were getting their website setup as announced with their opening specials. The Sublimator is a brand new product and from reading the last few pages of this forum you would think they are all failing. In fact since the Sublimator has launched, we have had only 5 warrantied / repaired units and as an overall percentage of units sold this is an incredibly low number.

When failed units get returned, they are tested and then either repaired / replaced and some of the failed units were complete user error, i.e. plugging directly into 220 volts without a step down transformer.

Since shipping is expensive especially when adding insurance, we don't ship failed units back to Sublimator one by one, we wait until we have a few returns and then ship them all together. Since there have been so few failed units returned, we only shipped Sublimator 3 on Wednesday, 2 of which had the low power issue. We can't speak for Sublimator, but having so little time to open them up and investigate as well as having only 2 units to examine out of all the ones out there without issue, will take some time to determine the cause plus take any corrective actions as necessary.

Sublimators are advancing at a rapid pace, only 4 months on the market and they are loved and embraced by almost every single owner. Problems will show up and will need to be worked out, but many new features are introducing like the new heat shield that will be functional yet still allow dabbing through the craters, new more accurate controllers to compensate against such a wide variance of power fluctuations throughout the world and that will have a non overidable timer and max 50 watt output, 220-240 volt international versions, new stainless and glass kits, new Ti Apollos, screens and atomizers etc.

....as well as the fact that EVERYONE's damn unit is having this issue.....

....if he does reneg on my warranty extension then i'm out shipping up to CA costs, the $30 they want to ship it back and the repair cost which he upped from $30-$40.....

Bob with all due respect your statements are both false. Obviously the repair cost issue hasn't been cleared up properly. It has always been 40.00 from day one, we know because we charge it on units broken by user error. Enrico has posted before, he is not involved in the pricing, this includes warranty pricing, he makes one post with an incorrect number from memory to try and help answer a forum members question and even though he posted again right after correcting his mistake, you make it seem like he suddenly raised the price by 10.00 when that simply isn't true.

You bought your unit second hand, knowing before your purchase that the warranty is not transferable. Then when it started showing issues and you can correct us if we are mistaken, you had the original purchaser contact us to circumvent the warranty being non transferable and we let him know that you can contact us directly as he had already told us previously he was selling the unit. PlanetVape made you the offer to cover your unit at OUR expense as you are a good customer, this is called good will. Please do not confuse this with Sublimators warranty under which your unit is not covered, even though Enrico publicly offered to help you out when the time came. Shipping costs are not included in the warranty.

Please see our post above regarding your statement "the fact that EVERYONE's damn unit is having this issue" this again is just simply not true. As far as we know, some units posted here have the new max 50 watt heaters, when users test the max on them after some time and see only 48-52 watts instead of the 65+ watts some have posted, they think their units are failing since they are not hitting 65+ watts as others have reported when in reality their max will only be 48-52 watts. Yes some units are having issues, but so far the failed number of units are so low and returned units so few that it will take some time to solve.


Hoping this post could clear up some assumptions which were not based on facts, if there are any questions we missed, please use our contact us page on our website as we don't always check FC that frequently.
PV

 

[Mister G]

I made a spreadsheet to help you find the most efficient way to make your own Sublimator kit.

Some Notes:

• This is in early early .01 alpha stage. I left every cell and sheet open and unlocked so people can tinker, I'm open to suggestions on how to improve this as I work on it.

• I made this spreadsheet based on prices found on PlanetVape.ca

• Most of the values are pulled from Sheet 2

• Changing the number in Column B on Sheet 3 (first sheet) will change which parts you're looking to pick up and therefore change which kit is the best value as a starting point.

• Currently only quantities of 0 and 1 are supported

• The Tube Cap quantity is linked to the Base quantity. The price of the Tube Cap is extrapolated from the price of the Base Launcher Tube Kit.

• If you change the value in B25 to TRUE it will drop the price of the UFO down to 0 in electric kits per the Sublimator promo that runs until Oct 20th

• The values in column O rows 21, 22, and 24 are the lowest priced options from those rows. So the kit in O24 is the lowest priced kit to buy as a starting point.

• There are a lot of half finished and half-baked ideas floating around in this spreadsheet, I'll remove them once I figure out which direction I'll be taking.

There is a lot left to fix and clean up before this is worthy of public use. In my tests the results for the lowest priced kit to buy (and which items to buy individually) from any combination of Sublimator parts has been correct, but feel free to verify on your own. I take no responsibility if you purchase $1,500 worth of Sublimator screens instead of an actual kit.

I'm open to collaboration if anybody thinks they have a better method.

Here is how I'll be phasing this:

• Alpha: Works as long as you follow the strict set of rules outlined, wont be pretty.
• Beta: Works but all of the math and cells will be open for editing, you can still screw everything up if you don't know what you're doing
• Release: You'll have a list of options for building a kit, it'll output the kit to buy as well as which individual items to add to it. It may show the price of total saved over retail. I'll also include pictures and descriptions of each individual component.

You can download the spreadsheet from:
Build-A-Sub alpha1.xlsx (17 KB)
https://mega.co.nz/#!Mw1jzKbQ!LPXoaCY_FH2BGXeMNkNVNmpfno5Jlsk6sW3bT1neqMA

Thank you but this greatly confuses me. Is this for some kind of bulk purchase you are coordinating?

 

[Tweek]

I love you PV, but this post is making us all sound like a small minority of unappreciative customers. Facts are, that many of us support sublimator and Enrico. I know I have sung the products praises, and admired Enrico for his determination and innovation. That being said, I could care less about the "rapid pace" at which they are expanding. Does that mean that us loyal supporters get left in the dust, because we have some concerns? I am sure he can thank his customers feedback for some of his current innovations.

Look around. Most companies have a rep. Where is ours? Or are we only going to hear from someone just to get our hand slapped for voicing concerns? You realize that this whole mess could of been avoided, had someone come out a month ago and said "We recognize the issue and are looking into it. It's not common, but we want to be sure everyone is satisfied." Sure, Enrico popped in here over a month ago and said we would be taken care of...but what does that mean? I don't want to spend another $40 on shipping, after shelling out almost $800 on a sublimator and launch tube set. Especially this early in ownership. And where am I left if I get a new one, and it fails again? Another $40? See how I start to feel milked?

Whether it's 5 or 100 failures, does not invalidate a loyal customers concerns. I apologize if I got hot under the collar, but I am not made out of money.

 

[King]

Thank you but this greatly confuses me. Is this for some kind of bulk purchase you are coordinating?

Nope, the Sublimator comes in multiple 'kits' that carry a discount over buying each individual part (Apollo, Atomizer, Screen, etc...) at retail.

The problem is that the kits don't encompass the entire range of possible heating element (Apollo, eNail, UFO) and Base combinations.

Therefore if somebody wanted to buy a Sublimator with all three heating elements and the tall tube base combo, one logical choice might be get the Limited Edition Kit and add the eNail and UFO. But in actuality its more cost effective to start with the Adapt-a-Sub or Adapt-a-Nail (not the combo) kit (this only applies during the UFO promo, when the promo ends the Mercury Kit becomes the best options).

This spreadsheet lets you select which Sublimator components you'd like to buy, and it calculates the most cost effective way of purchasing them.

 

[Home_piece]

Just to throw some more data into the mix...

I got my sub (with timer box) at the end of July, and have been using it hard ever since. My max wattage is, and has only ever been, 46W. I leave it on for hours at a time everyday (like 10+ hours on weekends or about 4pm to 10pm bedTime most other days). I usually give it 5-10 mins on max to get the initial heat going, then settle in at 30W for the most part with the odd foray up to 40W for any concentrates I'm lucky enough to enjoy.

Knock on wood, it has been impeccably consistent with (heavy?) daily use to date. Nice to hear from PV too, though in all my dealings 'offline' with them, I've nothing but confidence in their post-sale customer service. In saying that though, here's hoping to not have to use it!

 

[Tommii]

Echoing what Tweek said, I think it's important you clearly differentiate between your own opinions and official responses from Enrico/Sublimator to avoid confusion. Also could you maybe clarify what your exact relationship is with them is so we're all clear?

I haven't gotten enough information to make an official statement, but let me speak for myself.

I can't speak for Enrico in this case.

I'm just a regular user like everyone else.

We know you are not trying to be a bad guy here, Tommii...but you seem set on the idea that these things are slowly tanking because of your sole experience. Even after we repeatedly stated that we are not running these things full tilt.

If you look back in the thread, I am pretty sure at least one or two of us told YOU that dabbing at red was too high. When Enrico actually spent some time here, he warned us all very early, and we listened.

All this being said, it still does not add up. Why not add some sort of limiter? Why not put a warning in the instructions? Why test these units in the factory at full blast, when you know doing so in real life will cause them to fail?

Why not simply log on and say "Guys, I understand your frustration, this was unexpected and we are looking into it. We apologize and appreciate your business"

See how simple that is? Instead, it seems the blame is being piled on us.

The product fairly new on the market, but I heard that soon he will start making them more perfect batch with a more limited version so that in any case, shouldn't be able to run red hot at maximum.

 

[Tweek]

I'm just a regular user like everyone else.


The product fairly new on the market, but I heard that soon he will start making them more perfect batch with a more limited version so that in any case, shouldn't be able to run red hot at maximum.

That's cool...but it would be nice if we were updated. I know we are not special, and there is no obligation to even acknowledge us...but for the money spent, I would really hope a company would think otherwise.

Not saying they don't give a crap, but a month of zero updates or response from an official company rep, does not make me feel so loved.

 

[CentiZen]

Even if at this point only five sublimators have gotten to the point where they needed to be returned, it is little comfort to those of who are actually experiencing issues or starting to notice small fluctuations. I count at least five more users here who still have their units with the issues, and countless other who are chiming in as their sublimators slowly start to exhibit signs of impedance drift. To say that it is only five users who have been affected is not factual, and only serves to marginalize the people who have and will have this issue.

But being out for only four months at this point, if this problem is symptomatic of the kind of design flaw that I think it is, we are going to see many more returned as time progresses. While improvements to future designs may fix this, none of the ones you've listed would have any effect on the resistor except for the current limiting to 50W, which I think is still too high for any wirewound resistor that could fit in the Apollo head. I cannot even find resistors less than 50W rated that are in dimensions that would fit inside of the heater head, which tells me that the 50W limit is probably still at or above 100% of the maximum power dissipation threshold rating that the resistor has.

But I'm speculating; so lets assume that these new improvements do fix all of the issues, what happens to the users with the flawed units? Will they be upgraded to the new version for free? Will they just get a fixed sublimator back that they may have to return again in a few months? Right now it's all very uncertain which leads to a great deal of ire among the people who are in this situation, and myself who was just on the verge of purchasing one of my own.

Just putting this out there, but if there is a user out there with a dead sublimator who is not interested in warrantying it, please contact me. For science.

 

[Tommii]

IF these issues are from overheating then it's a design flaw. The dial shouldn't let me turn the temp up enough to do damage. Just like most cars have a RPM limiter.

If you keep redlining, your car will break down. Lol

Even if at this point only five sublimators have gotten to the point where they needed to be returned, it is little comfort to those of who are actually experiencing issues or starting to notice small fluctuations. I count at least five more users here who still have their units with the issues, and countless other who are chiming in as their sublimators slowly start to exhibit signs of impedance drift. To say that it is only five users who have been affected is not factual, and only serves to marginalize the people who have and will have this issue.

But being out for only four months at this point, if this problem is symptomatic of the kind of design flaw that I think it is, we are going to see many more returned as time progresses. While improvements to future designs may fix this, none of the ones you've listed would have any effect on the resistor except for the current limiting to 50W, which I think is still too high for any wirewound resistor that could fit in the Apollo head. I cannot even find resistors less than 50W rated that are in dimensions that would fit inside of the heater head, which tells me that the 50W limit is probably still at or above 100% of the maximum power dissipation threshold rating that the resistor has.

But I'm speculating; so lets assume that these new improvements do fix all of the issues, what happens to the users with the flawed units? Will they be upgraded to the new version for free? Will they just get a fixed sublimator back that they may have to return again in a few months? Right now it's all very uncertain which leads to a great deal of ire among the people who are in this situation, and myself who was just on the verge of purchasing one of my own.

Just putting this out there, but if there is a user out there with a dead sublimator who is not interested in warrantying it, please contact me. For science.

One of the reasons why people can't copy them, because they keep upgrading. I'm pretty sure the new 50watt version will replace your old unit.

 

[stickstones]

Remember folks, the best way to get an answer from PV is to contact them directly. No one is under obligation to come here, when they do it's a bonus.

Tommii is an end user who has more face time with enrico than anyone else here, but he still just speaks for himself.