The Screwball by Vapvana

lazylathe

Almost there...
@Vapvana

Thanks for sharing that video again.
The design is really neat and the kit looks well thought out.

Watching how you load a bowl and fill it completely with Herb has changed my mind about this vape. Maybe 6 to 10 years ago I would have been all over this!!! I used to laid big bowls like this for every hit but no more...

My use now is a pinch at a time with full convection extraction happening in one hit that does not last very long.
Full flavour and masses of vapor with tiny amounts is where I am at now.

Not sure of your bowl design, would it fit an EQ basket in therer for micro loads? Experience has taught me that a thin layer of Herb spread out on a large screen is way less effective than the same laod in a smaller bowl.
I used to do this with my CH FlowerPot back in the day and this allowed it to stay in my rotation for longer.

Great to see it being used by so many members!!!
 

VapingYogi

Pranayama; of a sort.
Not sure of your bowl design, would it fit an EQ basket in therer for micro loads? Experience has taught me that a thin layer of Herb spread out on a large screen is way less effective than the same laod in a smaller bowl.
Forgive me, are you saying you find it better to have a deeper thinner bowl? the Screwball has the half-bowl setting 0.15g. I am surprised you find a larger surface area less effective, I always found a thin spread worked best with my Freight Train Pro but maybe it was the bowl, I don't know. Curious as to your experience.
 

lazylathe

Almost there...
Forgive me, are you saying you find it better to have a deeper thinner bowl? the Screwball has the half-bowl setting 0.15g. I am surprised you find a larger surface area less effective, I always found a thin spread worked best with my Freight Train Pro but maybe it was the bowl, I don't know. Curious as to your experience.

Not at all...
I prefer smaller loads, way less than 0,15g at lower temps than most people. When I spread out a thin layer I find there are still some green flecks of Herb that are untouched.
When the air is forced to go through a smaller area, I find it extracts much better.
The smaller load in an EQ basket far exceeded what a thin, spread out later would do for me.

Something you will need to try for yourself and see if you notice a difference!
It could also be the fact that injector vapes work a bit differently and their air flow a bit more intense and direct.
 

Kiwi Vapor

Member
@Vapvana

Thanks for sharing that video again.
The design is really neat and the kit looks well thought out.

Watching how you load a bowl and fill it completely with Herb has changed my mind about this vape. Maybe 6 to 10 years ago I would have been all over this!!! I used to laid big bowls like this for every hit but no more...

My use now is a pinch at a time with full convection extraction happening in one hit that does not last very long.
Full flavour and masses of vapor with tiny amounts is where I am at now.

Not sure of your bowl design, would it fit an EQ basket in therer for micro loads? Experience has taught me that a thin layer of Herb spread out on a large screen is way less effective than the same laod in a smaller bowl.
I used to do this with my CH FlowerPot back in the day and this allowed it to stay in my rotation for longer.

Great to see it being used by so many members!!!
I'm pretty sure you don't HAVE to have a full bowl. Just fill it half way. Am I missing something here?
 
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2pumpchump

Well-Known Member
I'm pretty sure you don't HAVE to have a full bowl. Just fill it half way. Am I missing something here?
You mean like the half settings on a Dynavap bowl ls not a full bowl or the fact I can cram .7 g in his bowl and he just not stuff it to the maximum
 
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TedJones

Well-Known Member
Whether you use the full or half bowl setting, I’m thinking more than just a small layer covering the screen will be needed for it to work at full potential. I’m predicting I’ll use half bowl most of the time, getting 3-5 pulls depending on temp, rig, & grind. Shall be interesting :tup:
 

Kiwi Vapor

Member
You mean like the half settings on a Dynavap bowl ls not a full bowl or the fact I can cram .7 g in his bowl and he just not stuff it to the maximum
Yeah, so if I fill the bowl to halfway, it won't work very well? Should you always pack a full bowl like a Dynavap?
 
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2pumpchump

Well-Known Member
Whether you use the full or half bowl setting, I’m thinking more than just a small layer covering the screen will be needed for it to work at full potential. I’m predicting I’ll use half bowl most of the time, getting 3-5 pulls depending on temp, rig, & grind. Shall be interesting :tup:
At low temperatures same from my home made spacer but I'm sure has side effects!
Yeah, so if I fill the bowl to halfway, it won't work very well? Should you always pack a full bowl like a Dynavap?
😂OK so I used DynaVap for the 2 bowl settings!
Other than that the 2 should not even be compared!
How ever I never used the half bowl on my M as it was small enough... however I do understand not everyone needs to slam as much bud as me !!!! For this a custom glass bowl works great I been testing some make shifts bowl work really well
 

ubardog

Well-Known Member
I'm pretty sure you don't HAVE to have a full bowl. Just fill it half way. Am I missing something here?
I quite often put a very thin layer , Like less than 1mm . Then I use the tamp to spread it out perfectly making sure there are no air gaps. This only takes a sec or 2, Not difficult . Then Blast it all in one hit , Full extraction no problem . If spread properly there are 0 green flex's. Quite a lot of the time I prefer this method to a larger bowl.

I been using the screwball daily since I got it. Other vapes have take a shelf .
I got some anti slip heat shrink for the handle and this is a Thermal Twist heat shield . It took some bending but its goes on nicely. I don't think the heat shield is needed but I have cats and a dog so...... It also adds a little weight and is very close to NOT fitting with the bowl handle but it worked out perfectly .
IMG_20231103_140251.jpg
IMG_20231103_140244.jpg


IMG_20231103_140327.jpg
 

lazylathe

Almost there...
I'm pretty sure you don't HAVE to have a full bowl. Just fill it half way. Am I missing something here?
I will measure out one of my loads today and let you know the weight.
Would be interested to see how it does in a large bowl.

My load would cover maybe 1/3rd of the screen spread out, this is why I am asking how it performs with micro loads.
 

coolbreeze

Well-Known Member
Yeah, so if I fill the bowl to halfway, it won't work very well? Should you always pack a full bowl like a Dynavap?
It'll work, I struggled with this for awhile, and then Cal suggested just filling the bowl and sipping it at lower temps. It's a good method for a long evening or a Saturday, or just for little sips all day. It's tuned for a full bowl so it'll work better that way and by the time you've got enough in there to work efficiently, you've got a good bit more than a microdose so you may as well fill it. I felt that the flavor stayed decent for a good number of tokes, hitting it slow. I sort of prefer a small load that can be roasted for flavor/effects and then cached., but that is a different vape design.

The new bowl should make smaller loads possible with its half-bowl setting.
 

lazylathe

Almost there...
I'm pretty sure you don't HAVE to have a full bowl. Just fill it half way. Am I missing something here?

Took some pics and this was the result!
My normal load is 0,05g per load that fits perfectly into my bowl. I am sure a 1/2 bowl would weigh more than double my regular load per hit.
For my use, I prioritize one hit extraction with full flavor and clouds. Not a fan of filling the bowl, getting all the terps in that first hit and then going through the motions of not having full flavor with each hit. It's diminishing returns imo.

This is the reason I started to use an EQ bowl in my CH setup. It removed the large screen and the basket fit in the post perfectly.
Results improved immediately for me.

Try it and let me know how it handles such a small load spread out over the whole screen.

20231204-140931.jpg


20231204-141052.jpg
 

Zuhdj

Charles Mingus
Took some pics and this was the result!
My normal load is 0,05g per load that fits perfectly into my bowl. I am sure a 1/2 bowl would weigh more than double my regular load per hit.
For my use, I prioritize one hit extraction with full flavor and clouds. Not a fan of filling the bowl, getting all the terps in that first hit and then going through the motions of not having full flavor with each hit. It's diminishing returns imo.

This is the reason I started to use an EQ bowl in my CH setup. It removed the large screen and the basket fit in the post perfectly.
Results improved immediately for me.

Try it and let me know how it handles such a small load spread out over the whole screen.

20231204-140931.jpg


20231204-141052.jpg
If you have the ZX (which you do) you shouldn't get this. The ZX does what you are talking about MUCH better than any other vape out there right now.

The only one that comes close is using a CH 18mm injector on my lotus bowl. It works as a mini diffuser style. That gave me a good hybrid hit with the ability to microdose a little more than the SB while still giving the added conduction you may be lacking from the ZX.
 

coolbreeze

Well-Known Member
If you have the ZX (which you do) you shouldn't get this. The ZX does what you are talking about MUCH better than any other vape out there right now.
Exactly right, but I wouldn't discourage anyone as long as they know what they're getting. I'm not sure what kind of mod is possible but even the half bowl would be somewhere around .15-.2g probably.
 

JohnnyTorres

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure what kind of mod is possible but even the half bowl would be somewhere around .15-.2g
I keep thinking about this, and I see a TI or SS "donut" that could then hold a basket screen right in the center. It seems like overkill if this is the only desired method of use (and you seem to agree), but if anyone in the makersspace is watching, I would absolutely buy an accessory to easily switch between a micro dose and a full bowl.
 
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Zuhdj

Charles Mingus
I keep thinking about this, and I see a TI or SS "donut" that could then hold a basket screen right in the center. It seems like overkill if this is the only desired method of use (and you seem to agree), but if anyone in the makersspace is watching, I would absolutely buy an accessory to easily switch between a micro dose and a full bowl.
agreed. Cool maker idea. Or even a machined microdose bowl to still allow for a decent conduction effect
 

Gomaruana

Well-Known Member
I keep thinking about this, and I see a TI or SS "donut" that could then hold a basket screen right in the center. It seems like overkill if this is the only desired method of use (and you seem to agree), but if anyone in the makersspace is watching, I would absolutely buy an accessory to easily switch between a micro dose and a full bowl.

Yeah that is my thinking as well. I think the cylinder shape is best for extraction, it cannot be too thin of a pancake.
E-nano shows this very well, the bowl is extremely tiny but the hits can be big.

I'll be trying to see if I can make these donut bowl reducers out of a nice ceramic or ss, with a funnel shape maybe to direct airflow a bit smoother.
 

Vapvana

Well-Known Member
Manufacturer

Microdosing w/ the Screwball: What's the ideal solution?​

First off, thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread! :bowdown::love:

One of the reasons I love this community is because it generates discussion around an array of viewpoints. And if we believe our perception is our reality, then this allows us to fine tune the variables in our control to produce different experiences based on different situations :science:

In other words, I think there are different 'use cases' or scenarios that the user is trying to achieve. This context allows us to adjust the variables in our vape ecosystem to reach our desired end result (herb roast).

Feedback Loops​

floops-loops.png


One of the things I've learned from my background in software/business development is the importance of feedback loops.

The first ~7 months and 6 prototypes I went through this process myself. I kept receiving prototypes, testing, giving feedback and then we'd make the next prototype.

bowl-lid-prototypes.jpg


After I was happy with the results myself, I gathered feedback in person by going to events in Arizona.

User Demos​

When I showed the prototype of the Screwball to one of the cannabis companies that sampled out flower at a local consumption lounge, they agreed to let me join them each week to sample out their flower with the Screwball.

Here's an old recap from one of the monthly events this past January:

What I Learned:​

  • People have different preferences that impact the overall consumption experience​

    • Different inhale speeds, flower strains, herb amounts, etc
  • It's difficult to recreate the same experience based off of the users unique consumption methods​

    • I was able to fine tune the SB to get my ideal hit based off of my own preferences, but saw other users not get the same results using my personal settings.
  • The flower used makes a big difference (quality in = quality out)​

    • It seemed like if a strain wasn't cured properly, it caused a harsh effect on my lungs after inhaling.
  • No one knows what a ball vape is :shrug:

    • After sampling out hits to over 100 people, only 1 person said to me "is that a ball vape?? I saw those on reddit before"

Dose Preference: Is there a 'perfect' herb to bowl ratio for each dose size?

One of the reasons I designed the bigger bowl for the SB is because I wanted a flower dose similar to a .1g dab. I've since realized that my tolerance may be a little higher compared to other DHV users :freak:

This chart shows how a .4g bowl of flower is similar to a .1g of hash rosin with total THC content:
Screen_Shot_2023-07-26_at_12.32.18_PM.png


Less Is More​

Not sure of your bowl design, would it fit an EQ basket in therer for micro loads? Experience has taught me that a thin layer of Herb spread out on a large screen is way less effective than the same laod in a smaller bowl.
After receiving feedback from early adopters and seeing different peoples use preferences, I've been slowly adapting to a 'less is more' approach with my consumption too.

'Ideal' Herb Dimensions?​

I made this chart to help visualize various bowl sizes and herb dimensions:
ball-vape-herb-volume-chart.png


Height Matters​

Forgive me, are you saying you find it better to have a deeper thinner bowl? the Screwball has the half-bowl setting 0.15g. I am surprised you find a larger surface area less effective, I always found a thin spread worked best with my Freight Train Pro but maybe it was the bowl, I don't know. Curious as to your experience.
From my testing, the half-bowl setting can vape amounts from ~.05g to ~.25g

However, there needs at least ~.1g or so to fully cover the screen. Depending on the total amount you put, it will change your airflow and herb heat-up rate, and you will have to change your PID accordingly (less amounts require slightly hotter temps)

Convection Overcooking (Uneven Roasting)​

IMO, the need to stir your bowl is from overcooking the herb via convection air (from the top down).

injector-herb-overcook-example.png


If you are overcooking the top layer of herb, then the air temp is too hot for the total height of herb, which leads to uneven roasting.

The wider diameter of the SB bowl was to allow you to use more herb and keep the layer thin enough to prevent convection overheating and the need to stir.

Not at all...
I prefer smaller loads, way less than 0,15g at lower temps than most people. When I spread out a thin layer I find there are still some green flecks of Herb that are untouched.
When the air is forced to go through a smaller area, I find it extracts much better.
The smaller load in an EQ basket far exceeded what a thin, spread out later would do for me.

Something you will need to try for yourself and see if you notice a difference!
It could also be the fact that injector vapes work a bit differently and their air flow a bit more intense and direct.
I agree this makes a difference!

IMO, it seems like theres an ideal height you want your herb to be (~3mm - ~10mm). This changes the heat-up rate of your herb, and I believe allows for a fuller range of cannabinoids and terpenes to be activated.

If we know there's an ideal height, we can adjust the herb bowl diameter so our desired dose fills the whole bowl.

Whether you use the full or half bowl setting, I’m thinking more than just a small layer covering the screen will be needed for it to work at full potential. I’m predicting I’ll use half bowl most of the time, getting 3-5 pulls depending on temp, rig, & grind. Shall be interesting :tup:
After having an option to use the half bowl setting, I've found myself using this method most often.

It's been interesting to see how changing small variables changes the overall experience :science:

Yeah, so if I fill the bowl to halfway, it won't work very well? Should you always pack a full bowl like a Dynavap?
IMO, from my testing it seems like having the herb as close to the heater as possible makes a difference in performance.

Why? I'm not totally sure. One assumption is it might be due to laminar vs turbulent flow.

B9780702050152000022_f02-01-9780702050152.jpg


If we only pack the full size bowl halfway, then the airflow might change from turbulent to laminar?

IMO, this is why it's better to use the half-bowl setting with smaller amounts rather than just loading less into the bigger bowl.

To Tamp or Not To Tamp?​

I quite often put a very thin layer , Like less than 1mm . Then I use the tamp to spread it out perfectly making sure there are no air gaps. This only takes a sec or 2, Not difficult . Then Blast it all in one hit , Full extraction no problem . If spread properly there are 0 green flex's. Quite a lot of the time I prefer this method to a larger bowl.
I've done some testing with this and it's interesting how even a slight change like tamping the herb changes the overall experience.

There's a noticeable difference trying a half-sized bowl with .1g herb or .2g slightly tamped/leveled. It will be fun to hear everyones feedback once the updated bowls are sent out :rockon:

I will measure out one of my loads today and let you know the weight.
Would be interested to see how it does in a large bowl.

My load would cover maybe 1/3rd of the screen spread out, this is why I am asking how it performs with micro loads.
@lazylathe here's a video of my doing ~.05g on the half-bowl setting.


Although it's possible to use a small layer on top, I agree with you that increasing the herb height (by reducing the diameter) should provide a more 'well rounded' hit.

(It seems like the SB half-bowl setting requires at least ~.1g of ground herb to prevent being 'too thin')
 

Vapvana

Well-Known Member
Manufacturer

Screwball Microdose Bowl Concepts​

Based on my previous post, here are a couple of concepts I came up with that use smaller diameter mesh screens.

15mm Screen w/ 18mm Joint​

sb-microdose-bowl-15.png


12.7mm (1/2in) Screen w/ 14mm Joint​

sb-microdose-bowl-12mm.png


I keep thinking about this, and I see a TI or SS "donut" that could then hold a basket screen right in the center. It seems like overkill if this is the only desired method of use (and you seem to agree), but if anyone in the makersspace is watching, I would absolutely buy an accessory to easily switch between a micro dose and a full bowl.
I've also thought about some type of donut reducer. My assumption is that by using an insert to reduce the internal diameter, that it will fall out when emptying the herb from the bowl.

Maybe there's a way to screw the insert in.... but I still don't think the user experience is ideal. IMO it makes more sense to have a dedicated bowl for microdoses.

agreed. Cool maker idea. Or even a machined microdose bowl to still allow for a decent conduction effect
I'm curious to see how the added mass in the prototypes would change the overall experience :hmm:

Sounds like some more testing is in order :science:

Yeah that is my thinking as well. I think the cylinder shape is best for extraction, it cannot be too thin of a pancake.
E-nano shows this very well, the bowl is extremely tiny but the hits can be big.

I'll be trying to see if I can make these donut bowl reducers out of a nice ceramic or ss, with a funnel shape maybe to direct airflow a bit smoother.
I agree! And it seems like we have a similar vision for smaller sized bowls :rockon:

IMO, one of the benefits of the Screwball is the whole ecosystem, and each variable, is custom designed to work together.

Although there are plans to work with third party makers, IMO it makes more sense to focus on accessories that enhance the experience (like custom handles) rather than accessories that solve problems/issues the manufacturer chooses not to fix :shrug:

Whole Bud Vaping​

Anyone ever just drop a bud in it?
Funny enough, I don't think I've done this test yet :doh:

I could see there being some benefits, but I'll have to try myself and report back.

Yes. It worked, not as well as grinding though.
My assumptions say that grinding will work better than whole buds.

What grind size is best? I'm not sure, or this may come down to personal preferences.

Next Update​

For my next update I'm working on a post about the 'Anatomy of a Ball Vape' and the different variables in play.

Ideally this will turn into an infographic that gives new users all the info they need about how ball vapes work, and how we can adjust the devices to get our desired outcomes.

Tracking Update​

I'm still on schedule to ship out US (110v) kits tomorrow. If I don't get all the orders out, the rest will go out Thursday.

I've also received a tracking number for international (220v) kits. Once the ETA updates I will reach out to all presale orders on an individual basis.

Thanks again for everyones early support and patience! I'm excited to get more units out in the wild, and am looking forward to the next wave of feedback.

Talk soon,
Cal
 
Last edited:

Kiwi Vapor

Member
Thanks Cal for all the updates. Looking at getting another glass piece but all the really good ones, at good price, have a 14mm joint. Are there plans to have a 14 mm bowl? Also, sorry if this sounds silly, (I'm new to Ball Vapes, never used one before), but what is "Half Bowl Setting"? Do you sit the screen higher in the bowl?
 

LordKahel

Member
Thanks Cal for all the updates. Looking at getting another glass piece but all the really good ones, at good price, have a 14mm joint. Are there plans to have a 14 mm bowl? Also, sorry if this sounds silly, (I'm new to Ball Vapes, never used one before), but what is "Half Bowl Setting"? Do you sit the screen higher in the bowl?

You can always get a 18mm female to 14mm male adapter. I have one and find it very practical since i get all my bowl in 18mm size .
 

Kiwi Vapor

Member
You can always get a 18mm female to 14mm male adapter. I have one and find it very practical since i get all my bowl in 18mm size .
Yeah I have an adapter. Will be using that when the SB arrives as I only have a 14mm bong. Just don't want it stacking up too high if you know what I mean. Would like the bowl to just sit in the joint without any need for adapters, ashcatchers etc.
 

JohnnyTorres

Well-Known Member
Thanks Cal for all the updates. Looking at getting another glass piece but all the really good ones, at good price, have a 14mm joint.
Have you checked out Thick Ass Glass? I've ordered nothing but their factory seconds and I have yet to be disappointed. They do the adapters and downstems as well, if you want to just change a current piece, and they ship from Colorado so the wait time is reasonable.
 
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