The "Project" DIY Herbal Vaporizer

[Pipes]

You should really consider a TC device as has many advantages. Faster response and no fear of combustion.
However, 15 Watts would be a good starting spot. Remember though, the control is now really draw and reverse to what one might think. Slower will be hotter and faster draw is going to be cooler. Get the timing down and you can increase wattage. Just never start with a slow draw.
Get yourself a Cuboid for a device you can really enjoy to the fullest.

Great idea for a stirrer! Maybe I can throw you a bone to stick a rod in an envelope? I almost have something that would work but a bit too thick for the tight bends

Large darning pins or skirt type safety pin are also about the right gauge. A sewing section somewhere should have something. Just make sure it's stainless steal. Trick is to bend "really" slowly. Too fast and it will snap. Some heat would likely help but I did not use.

 

[E0x]

What wattage are you guys using when not in temp control mode?

i have a rx200 mod i use 65watts

 

[Pipes]

I believe Stick's mod isn't a TC unit. If watts only, the higher the watts the faster one must suck the air. Also, opens up possible overheating the oven and damaging the insulator. Specially if not drawing right off the start which is what keeps the element from running a muck. In TC, it's self regulating.

Good Price Cuboid here

In a hurry and live in the states, these guys would be faster. (out of NY) Most vape stores have it and pricing "should" not be too much more.

 

[Renthispace]

Got the project in the mail last night, plugged it into my cuboid and adjusted the settings. Tcr 145, resistance locked in at .5ohm and power set to 80w.

First rip at 490f so tasty. Easily adjusted to 540 to finish the bowl. I didn't take any pics of my first try, but here are two from my second. Very even roasting! The wall of the metal tube does suck some of the heat and thus slight unevenness but when dumped out the abv is way more consistent compared to my whip style box desktop vaporizer. And I didn't stir the project! I always stir when I use the whip so very good!

 

[stickstones]

Got mine in a couple of days ago...thanks @Pipes !

I'm very impressed with the function so far. It's open source and we have a long way to go before we put the vaporizer business out of business, but I'm amazed at what we can get out of it already! This is going to be fun!

 

[kingfisher]

I've had mine for a few months now. I didn't use it much the first month because I got a GH. Well after 2 months the gh broke and I was damn glad I had this project.

I have a Rx200 mod, and I set it to M1 between 530-570 for temp.

I have found once the metal cylinder in the stem heats up I get consistent browning without stiring. Otherwise I almost always have to stir. It seems my unit heats a 1/8" diameter circle. I found that by tilting the stem I could direct the heat around better, and avoid storing for a couple additional hits.

I am wondering if I insert another metal cylinder thereby reducing the chamber volume and containing the herb in the direct heat path. It would heat more evenly without siring.

 

[KeroZen]

@kingfisher : do you have the old style coil geometry or the new one (aka stove top)?

I couldn't get rid of the hot spot using the old coil and had to stir every two hits, which was frankly annoying as I don't like having to stir and manipulate burning hot bits when on the go. In fact, even at home, stirring is a PITA that should be un-necessary.

I did a few side steps using other DIY RDA's and coils but I intend to come back to the Project soon. It's just that there's so little place, it's a work of art building such small coils. And the way they are mounted (clamped) makes the process very frustrating.

 

[kingfisher]

@kingfisher : do you have the old style coil geometry or the new one (aka stove top)?

I couldn't get rid of the hot spot using the old coil and had to stir every two hits, which was frankly annoying as I don't like having to stir and manipulate burning hot bits when on the go. In fact, even at home, stirring is a PITA that should be un-necessary.

I did a few side steps using other DIY RDA's and coils but I intend to come back to the Project soon. It's just that there's so little place, it's a work of art building such small coils. And the way they are mounted (clamped) makes the process very frustrating.

I guess I have no idea. I have been following the project for around 6 months now, but I haven't been around for a while.

I am assuming it is a stove pipe??? Basically a coil within a coil. The inside one is more tightly wound than the outer.

I am planning on 3d printing a heater.
The only problem is that they would be expensive, but this would give the most even heat distribution in the air passing across it.

 

[Pipes]

@kingfisher, you have the original coil. I changed the coil design to a stove top with the center lower then the outer. V shaped when looking from the side. Has improved the center hot spot quite a bit.
You can try to reshape your existing coil by lowering the center coil and/or rising the outside coil or redo a new coil with the spare parts which you should have. Also, if you make the center coil off center, the hot spot will be off center as well and rotating the stem will help even out the load heat.
Modifying the stem with a stirrer is also an option as mentioned on the last page.
IMO, adding material to spread and deflect the heat more evenly, may be a solution but not that efficient. At least that's the way I see it, like pushing your car's gas peddle while using the brake at the same time to slow down..? Your suggestion of making the stem diameter smaller will also improve the heating of the outside portion of the load at the expense of load size but good idea. Give it a shot.
Have not been up on the 3D heaters. How does that scheme work?

 

[kingfisher]

To be honest, I am not entirely sure. I am hoping someone takes the plunge to dissect their grasshopper, lol. I am a mechanical engineer by trade so I have a good understanding of the concepts behind what we are trying to accomplish.

Anyway, I'll try to explain what I can without diagrams and other useful documents.

Someone on here hit the nail on the head. We need more heat transfer to the air. Since this is convection heating, as in air removing heat from an object. We need more surface area, and more even heat distribution. This conclusion comes from two angles.

1. My mod hits temp pretty quickly but it still takes several seconds for the heat to get to the herb. Basically it is cycling between hitting temp and getting cool enough to fire, but only briefly. Meaning it is building up too much heat within the wire. Removing heat is key as our goal is to remove heat at nearly the rate that the device provides it. Otherwise the coil reaches temp and the mod turns off power. Turning it on again and surging again. Consistent heat is key to repeatability. Decreasing the diameter of the wire would help too, but of course winding is an art in itself. Also one needs to ensure they keep a similar resistance and heat capacity as was already looked into. I was thinking of trying different materials with a different heat flux as well.

2. I think this may be where your stove pipe inspiration came from. If you watch the coil heat up its clear the inner windings heat up first and to a higher temp than the outer. In order to disperse the heat evenly we need to disperse the electrical resistance evenly. My design would accomplish this.

I am reluctant to share my heater concepts to just anyone as I believe a patent is in order. However, you have proven to certainly be ahead of me in creating an e-cig mod and I would be happy to collaborate. Maybe through pm or email so I could share model views or more. I would also like to remain open source, and eventually sell something. Honestly I am not sure how to handle this as I am not a greedy person. I want everyone to be able to benefit.

I don't have easy access to a metal printer so I will have to pay for prototypes. I am planning on using some like these guys for parts.
If not ok, please remove, I am not trying to advertise just provide an example.
https://www.protolabs.com/3d-printing/direct-metal-laser-sintering/

 

[Pipes]

I too am curious to see the inside of the GH. Was watching the thread for the longest time to no joy. Kind of surprising with the number now out there. That SLS process looks cool. Just googled and watched a couple vids. Opens up a lot of material safety concerns though. Vapor path friendly is not a priority for them you'd think. Although I have no idea what material types it can use. They were making metal car parts in one I watched.

Agreed that the heat transfer is key and getting the element to heat evenly on the portion that counts is the trick. The V stove top coils is much more even in this regard. So far, only @Renthispace has reported back on the new design. His seems to be working as I anticipated. And Sticks is having fun as well.

We are relying on the mod for keeping it inside usable temp ranges, which it does reasonably well. The over and under shooting or pulsing comes from the sampling rate and mods ability to keep up with the changes. This will likely improve as technology and methodology change. Manufacturers and even firmware can make differences as we have found. I'd love to try a DNA chipped mod to see if the pulsing is better or even gone.

I tried to patent a device once in the past. Back in 82, I did a patent search for a device to keep your car from starting if your alcohol level was too high. Even had a name for it, The ProTech. You have to remember back then, there was no such thing but the search came back with about 500 previous patents starting in the 1900s. Some very inventive ideas from a spark plug that if your breath was that bad it would ignite your breath, indicating your too drunk. lol. Even the mouthpiece saliva catching was patented. Really freaked me out. Cost me a couple hundred for the search back then. But never know unless you try. Had ideas of approaching insurance companies, taxi and bus industries.
Good luck with your endeavor as if it does work out can be profitable for sure.

 

[kingfisher]

Yeah, that's the problem... it costs a few thousand dollars now a days and it doesn't really guarantee anything. Actually you just reminded me, I need to find the gh patent. They're actually some of the most useful documents when trying to figure these things out. Hence why coke hasn't patented their recipe.

Anyway, thanks, haha, wow, so did you make your fortune on the Inter lok?

I guess maybe another route would be to share what I've got and others could collaborate. Potentially saving money on reduced iteration costs.

To clarify, I meant that when one portion of the coil gets too hot too fast, as in before the other portions, the resistance increases too much and causes the mod to turn off. The temp control is resistance based.

 

[KeroZen]

It's clear that we would be better with a dedicated temperature sensor and a custom controller of some kind. This method of achieving temperature control by resistance change has some shortcomings. We should rather be measuring air temperature, as the heater itself will likely be non uniform (unless it's very precisely printed maybe, or any other automated process)

There are ways to increase the heater surface area, but in the Project we are very much space-limited. The inner SS tube has already a small diameter and the coil must not touch it. The height is also limited otherwise it touches the SS mesh screen above.

So we are down to adjusting the coil geometry, the metal or alloy used and the gauge (or dimensions when using exotic wires and ribbons) while still ending in the appropriate resistance range (sub-ohm for most mods, otherwise they switch to power mode and you lose TC)

 

[kingfisher]

Sorry, I haven't kept up on these threads. I thought at one point the bulli thread went inactive. Not the case..

 

[KeroZen]

Hey, if we don't go the custom controller way, I propose something: why don't we try to implement a special "DC" (Dry Content) firmware for our evic VTC mini's?

I stumbled upon this open source SDK: https://github.com/ReservedField/evic-sdk

I haven't looked into depth, it might be very bare-bones and we might need to rewrite everything (would be easier if we had a working firmware as a starting point) but using this we could in theory be able to have a high sampling rate TC mode while having a more user-friendly 30 seconds time-out, rather than the current annoying 10 seconds.

From what I've seen so far, few people in the e-cig world actually use TC, and the feature is really meant just to avoid dry burning your coils and ruining your cotton wicks etc. They don't really care about precision and/or responsiveness it seems. But I might be wrong? I just think that with some work we could do better.

On the other hand I'm already toying with custom controllers using the ATTINY microcontroller (Digispark board) and a MOSFET + PID controller software, and that would give us total control plus the ability to use temperature probes. I did quite some research already and have most parts handy, but I'm taking my time (already got plenty of excellent vapes) The battery management part is also not really my cup of tea and I haven't found any easy solution so far (there are some IC's but those I found had low amps ratings)

If there's some genuine interest from FC members though, I could spend more time on either solution...

 

[Thedankknight]

After a lot of research I stumble upon this peach of a thread. This would be perfect for the hand rubbed hashish/charas i get in my area, as i have not been able to find a solution till now. Would definitely like to be part of this. @Pipes I have dropped you a message an eagerly waiting for a reply before I order my TC box mod.

 

[kingfisher]

@KeroZen, I have seen tc used pretty heavily in my area. However, only a few people actually realize the capability of the recent controllers. Mostly I see tc used during dripping. To keep the coil from burning. People are quite aware of responsiveness...

Yet as we realize ait has significantly different heat transfer properties than glycol.

For what it's worth on the custom controller side.. it seems like the grasshopper is using a high current pulse width modulated signal to power the heater. Ie the clicking if you have ever used one. Anyway it would seem the rapid pulse gives the ability of high heat but good control. As others may have noticed based on the response curves. I think what is unique is the switching... Maybe gives a more even heat distribution through the heater.

 

[Zangano Cruel]

Hola FC and @Pipes :
Just got my "The Project" today in the mail. I have an eVic Mini 75W upgraded.
Someone,please, can link me with the mod numbers setup/lock . I'm really anxious to try it and I don't want to charr/combust from the beggining...
Thanks in advance and stay vaped...

 

[E0x]

Hola FC and @Pipes :
Just got my "The Project" today in the mail. I have an eVic Mini 75W upgraded.
Someone,please, can link me with the mod numbers setup/lock . I'm really anxious to try it and I don't want to charr/combust from the beggining...
Thanks in advance and stay vaped...

first page of this thread have a manual with the info for the evic vtc mini

 

[Thedankknight]

Hey guys, so ill be getting "The Project" in a couple of weeks time so was looking on some further thoughts on the matter.
I'll be vaping indian hand rubbed hashish(those of you in Europe might be familiar with this kind). Some of it is creamy as we call it here and some of it has more plant material so its crumbly, both variants have plant material and don't really melt but form complete ash.

I have been reading up a bit after @Pipes suggested that I should be wrapping it up in a piece of cotton before vaping to avoid the extensive clean up and I think this is how I will be going about it as of now.

What i wanted to know if anyone has any experience vaping just hash in the project, we don't have bud here so sandwiching it between that is not an option. Either straight up without the cotton or with are the only options for me. I am aware that it will need some experimenting from my side to get the technique perfect with hash and I am looking forward to just that.

 

[Pipes]

Hola FC and @Pipes :
Just got my "The Project" today in the mail. I have an eVic Mini 75W upgraded.
Someone,please, can link me with the mod numbers setup/lock . I'm really anxious to try it and I don't want to charr/combust from the beggining...
Thanks in advance and stay vaped...

Hey there. I find that with the new coil and new firmware you should drop the TCR to 120. This happens to be the default number so no need to go into sub menu to change it. 500F will get it in the ball park.
Also, turn down your watts down to 55. This is because the unit tends to switch to power mode if battery is having a hard time keeping up with the demand.
Enjoy!

 

[Zangano Cruel]

Hola FC and @Pipes :
Congrats on The Project again. This is a keeper for insta clouds. Amazing how fast it is. Mind blowing indeed. Anyone with the cash to get it, please help Pipes to keep upgrading this Project to reach everyone.
This is a must have in the vaporist arsenal for sure. Still playing with technique.

I'm using at the moment an OG 2012 Stealth Solo stem. At that time was with the purpose of connecting a silicone hose or a straw and do the Stealth coffee/fast food cup disguise with a Solo. I never used it like that, instead I bought a silicon brewery cork with a hole in it already... Stem itself is sturdy and thicker than regular stems... With the stopper, I can adjust bowl distance to The Project screen/heater... Cork comes very handy in protecting the stem too. Almost unbreakable...

I'm on TCR M1 120...
Watts between 55 and 65, still playing with it...
Temperature, between 500 to 550 blows my mind...
Still trying to find a position on the silicon heater cover, trying to align/desalign???? the air intake holes, just trying to avoid hot spots that way...

Stay vaped my friends...

 

[Pipes]

Awesome report, thanks for the support. Any comment on any silicone taste?
Waiting for feedback on this point as it is a concern for some. BTW, those little silicon burrs and imperfections can actually be rubbed off by rubbing against something. Sorta like an eraser. Found they smooth out quite nicely.

Soooo...
I found a way to make the casing in a single piece rather then two halves. Made a test unit today to confirm the process works.
The problem was a way to remove the center part of the mold after the silicon cures.
Here's what worked.
Made the masters from doweling, one inner and one outer. The inner is reversed at this point.
Let's start with the inner mold part. I made a mold from silicon of the master and use this mold for making the center mold part from paraffin wax. A mold to make a temporary mold so to speak. So at this point we have a wax center mold insert.
The outer mold is made by making a silicon mold of the master and make a wax model of the original master. Used this wax master to make the outside mold from JB Weld. At this point we also have a master outer mold made from IB Weld.
Now it's just a matter of putting the high heat silicon mix into the outer mold and inserting the wax temporary center mold. After it cures, stick in the oven to melt out the wax. Remove from outer mold and BAM, Done.

Here are the two masters I created. First run test.


This is making the silicon mold to make the temporary wax inner molds.


Now this is a wax temporary mold resting inside the outer mold. Originally, the outer mold was still going to be two piece but found once wax is melted out, I can remove without having to split.


So I'm all caught up on orders and have some time to redesign some as from all you guys feedback. Seems consensus it to have more room between the heater and load. Thinking an additional 3 mm to the oven length? Opinions?

 

[bagelbanger]

Hey gang. Missed you guys! Where's everyone been?!!?

Sooooo, I've been using the project. A lot. Like real blurry summer this has been...

I was a bit worried a few weeks ago because while the project has quickly become my daily driver, the wood shell around the coil was falling apart fast and no amount of wood glue was gonna help. The project really fits my needs and was worried what would take its place??!?
No fear, reached out to @Pipes and he mentioned that the silicone sleeves were almost ready. A day or two later and he contacts me and let's me know he has one ready. Awesome. Paid and its on its way.

Got it quick and back in business. The new coil design worked so much better then v.1 and heat was much more even. Silicone has been tasteless, to me, and I'm very pleased with is durability. Was fairly certain it would have split by now, but nope... All good. Just might have to bother pipes for another and make a backup cuboid or something....

Like I mentioned in previous posts, really dig this thing.
I switch it up at home with a UD, lotus, hammer, milaana, but on the go the project excels. Always ready to heat and my mini eds solo stem make loading and cleaning a breeze. My evic will sometimes get NO ATOMIZER, or ATOMIZER LOW, or the new one, ATOMIZER SHORT but for the most part a simple restart and unscrew on-off of the 'project seems to solve it.

Keep it up @Pipes!

 

[nondarb]

My evic will sometimes get NO ATOMIZER, or ATOMIZER LOW, or the new one, ATOMIZER SHORT but for the most part a simple restart and unscrew on-off of the 'project seems to solve it.

Think this is a firmware issue with joyetech. My cuboid occasionally does it too. I still use my project, been a little less lately as I've been hard at work testing some sticky brick wares! The project is still my go to stealth unit.