Take apart the Hercules bottom adapter, the one that's stainless steel. I want to see how you assembled that.
Discontinued The Persei Vaporizer for herbs and concentrates.
- Thread starter THC SCIENTIFIC
- Start date
Take apart the Hercules bottom adapter, the one that's stainless steel. I want to see how you assembled that.
SlideOrDie
Well-Known Member
Pretty sure it has nothing to do with that boss...
I grabbed a good digital camera and am going to show you what I'm talking about since I doubt the way it's put together is an issue since I did it the exact same way last night for my buddies...
Notice in the first pic how the threads at the top cross through eachother essentially not allowing it to screw in anymore... You can see the threads are blocked by it on the second pic. You can feel it and I'm almost 100% sure that this was just a manufacturing defect.
If you still want to see the inside and how I put it together I'll snap a pic in a min but pretty sure this is the cause.
EDIT
I grabbed a good digital camera and am going to show you what I'm talking about since I doubt the way it's put together is an issue since I did it the exact same way last night for my buddies...
Notice in the first pic how the threads at the top cross through eachother essentially not allowing it to screw in anymore... You can see the threads are blocked by it on the second pic. You can feel it and I'm almost 100% sure that this was just a manufacturing defect.
If you still want to see the inside and how I put it together I'll snap a pic in a min but pretty sure this is the cause.
EDIT
BLAZING OG
Vaping is a way of life!
I'm trying to figure out how it was unscrewed but no worries. Let me get off the plane and ill look into this.
PhotoRider
Diagnosed with level 11 G.A.S.
Just a FYI post here about my latest characterization work between the Cera base and the Persei using the same load and battery. Which provides the most effecient power delivery system...
First the disclaimers (lawyer BS).
1. This is one data point and only one. Oh actually multiple data points on the Persei. I own 5 heads (2 singles, 2 duals and 1 hammer), 2 normal tubes and 2 SS tubes that house 18650s. Several bottom plates/springs. I ran through them quickly and while there are differences they are within 1-3% of each other. I only have one Cera base however, so to get truly fair, additional Cera's must really be characterized the same way. Mine could be an outlier on the bell curve...
2. The Persei used an adapter to mount a Cera EO cart - the load used to characterize the bases. This adds resistance to the EO cart. However, the measurement point was post adapter on the Persei to remove it. In fact it adds to the Persei drop.
3. No agenda by me and none should be by any of the membership. This is just data to interrupt so you are knowledgeable. Use it wisely and its not to beat on any product. Its not a negative. Use it as a positive. I will continue to own and use both products because both serve me well. Nothing here changes my mind.
OK, remeasured my data using a Cera base and a Persei. Learned something here between the two bases.
I used the same battery in each base and recharged between tests. I put wires on the input of the Cera EO cart and installed in each base. On the Persei I used a 601->3/8-24 adapter to allow the Cera EO to mount. I took two measurements the same way on each base using the same load first on initial turn on, then after 35 seconds of continual power after that.
Cera, fresh charged AW 18650 2000mAh battery.
No load 4.43V.
Full Cera EO load - 3.41, 35 seconds later 3.37
Persei
Recharged same battery...
No load 4.43V
Full Cera EO load - 3.55V, 35 seconds later 3.48V
First to note, even through the Persei must use an adapter it drops (4.43-3.55) or 0.88v, the Cera drops (4.43-3.41) or 1.02V.
That means under even worse conditions the Persei base dropped 0.14V less initially and after 35 seconds was still 0.11 higher. The Cera is only 86% efficient of the Persei so the Persei delivers 14% more voltage given everything thing else equal.
Now lets explore the current flowing.
Initial conditions...
Cera 3.41/0.69 = 4.94 Amps
Persei 3.55/0.69 = 5.14 Amps
After 35 seconds...
Cera 3.37/0.69 = 4.88 Amps
Persei 3.48/0.69 = 5.02 Amp.
Keep in mind this is a square factor - double increase in power. Both the Voltage and current are 14% higher and watts = V * I. Since both increase by 14% there is a square function... win-win
Now to find another Cera base to find out if mine is an exception to the rule.
First the disclaimers (lawyer BS).
1. This is one data point and only one. Oh actually multiple data points on the Persei. I own 5 heads (2 singles, 2 duals and 1 hammer), 2 normal tubes and 2 SS tubes that house 18650s. Several bottom plates/springs. I ran through them quickly and while there are differences they are within 1-3% of each other. I only have one Cera base however, so to get truly fair, additional Cera's must really be characterized the same way. Mine could be an outlier on the bell curve...
2. The Persei used an adapter to mount a Cera EO cart - the load used to characterize the bases. This adds resistance to the EO cart. However, the measurement point was post adapter on the Persei to remove it. In fact it adds to the Persei drop.
3. No agenda by me and none should be by any of the membership. This is just data to interrupt so you are knowledgeable. Use it wisely and its not to beat on any product. Its not a negative. Use it as a positive. I will continue to own and use both products because both serve me well. Nothing here changes my mind.
OK, remeasured my data using a Cera base and a Persei. Learned something here between the two bases.
I used the same battery in each base and recharged between tests. I put wires on the input of the Cera EO cart and installed in each base. On the Persei I used a 601->3/8-24 adapter to allow the Cera EO to mount. I took two measurements the same way on each base using the same load first on initial turn on, then after 35 seconds of continual power after that.
Cera, fresh charged AW 18650 2000mAh battery.
No load 4.43V.
Full Cera EO load - 3.41, 35 seconds later 3.37
Persei
Recharged same battery...
No load 4.43V
Full Cera EO load - 3.55V, 35 seconds later 3.48V
First to note, even through the Persei must use an adapter it drops (4.43-3.55) or 0.88v, the Cera drops (4.43-3.41) or 1.02V.
That means under even worse conditions the Persei base dropped 0.14V less initially and after 35 seconds was still 0.11 higher. The Cera is only 86% efficient of the Persei so the Persei delivers 14% more voltage given everything thing else equal.
Now lets explore the current flowing.
Initial conditions...
Cera 3.41/0.69 = 4.94 Amps
Persei 3.55/0.69 = 5.14 Amps
After 35 seconds...
Cera 3.37/0.69 = 4.88 Amps
Persei 3.48/0.69 = 5.02 Amp.
Keep in mind this is a square factor - double increase in power. Both the Voltage and current are 14% higher and watts = V * I. Since both increase by 14% there is a square function... win-win
Now to find another Cera base to find out if mine is an exception to the rule.
SlideOrDie
Well-Known Member
Ok, so i took it apart, and it seems like the rod is unable to be fastened tightly enough to the top half and the middle retaining nut was/is tight as I can get it. The rod was pulled out into the lower half and still stuck in the rod sleeve after I disassembled the halfs. I did that retaining nut as tight as I could when I assembled it to the point where my fingers still hurt. What's awesome now, is I can't seem to get the bottom connector that the rod is still in separated from the lower half of the cart and I'm just getting super tired and pissed off so I guess I'll just wait to hear back from you guys tomorrow and we'll go from there...
BLAZING OG
Vaping is a way of life!
can you use a rag and some pliers ,I have use the inside of my shirt with great success.
The first couple times things are a bit tight but the rods and pins will all create the necessary grooves over time to slide in smoothly.
The nut that locks the top part of the rod doesnt tighten down enough?
Try with a rag or shirt so you dont mangle your fingers with the knurling.
Trying to thnk to get you going .
PhotoRider
Diagnosed with level 11 G.A.S.
I found on one cart the fingers where spread a bit more and required the nut to be torqued a bit to compress them on the rod. Minor production tolerance in the area. You fingers may not be strong enough to compress the friction fit. Using pliers and a rag to protect the nut, slowly torque it down Don't go real hard now, just enough to hold the rod. Use pliers that expand - not needle nose. I use hemostats which are part of all our kits
Once this done, you can finger tighten the nut because the fingers move in just enough...
Once this done, you can finger tighten the nut because the fingers move in just enough...
SlideOrDie
Well-Known Member
Ok so I got it all apart again and put it back together and tightened the center nut with a cloth and pliers and finished assembling it the exact same way and still it will not heat up at all... Blue light stays on the Persei but nothing...
I'm betting the bottom connector isn't able to screw in far enough to make proper contact with the bottom insulator...
FML
PhotoRider
Diagnosed with level 11 G.A.S.
I bet you are 100% right here.
First does the rod stay put now?
If so, I have noticed it doesn't take much tightening on those screws to open the connection. If I tighten up the bottom screw holding the rod retained too much it opens. Same with the adapter the unit threads into (and the black cover). If your SS cart will not screw in all the way because of a thread issue - its no doubt this is the issue in my mind. Try screwing in the SS cart without that base and cover into the Persei. Same threading just to see if it connects. Or maybe the threads just will not allow the connection...
Do you have a meter. This is much safer with a meter...
to diagnose maybe roll up some foil in a small ball and insert into the screw head to extend the screw head to make the connection. Be very careful. If the foil touches the outter metal ring it will short. Using your Persei is an issue especially if its an old model. Must state Persei under the button on the head... Using a meter is safe. Just try ohming to see if that solves the issue. I would not operate like that. Only proves what the issue is not a solution.
The good news is you can replace that part and only that part
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SlideOrDie
Well-Known Member
Tried directly into the Persei and it still will not go in all the way... Pretty sure the problem is that the bottom connector on the cart won't screw in far enough to make contact with the connection inside of anything regardless if it's the insulator or the actual threaded connection on the Persei itself...
FML I give up, this is pissing me off to no end...
PhotoRider
Diagnosed with level 11 G.A.S.
I added a diagnose method to the above post try that... with foil. or a BB
Stop, relax, take a hit, relax. OHMMMM.
I have been there, done that. In the end I screwed up so much because I got pissed. Walk away, come back. Try the foil/BB method and if so you get a new part. Meanwhile while you are waiting, grab a file and clean up the threads. Maybe you can fix it, but risky.
I wish I could find a 601 tap and die set... Found a 3/8-24 for the Cera, but that 601 is not normal... At least everywhere I look. Not local... If you had a die, easy fix...
Stop, relax, take a hit, relax. OHMMMM.
I have been there, done that. In the end I screwed up so much because I got pissed. Walk away, come back. Try the foil/BB method and if so you get a new part. Meanwhile while you are waiting, grab a file and clean up the threads. Maybe you can fix it, but risky.
I wish I could find a 601 tap and die set... Found a 3/8-24 for the Cera, but that 601 is not normal... At least everywhere I look. Not local... If you had a die, easy fix...
We will have a bottom base out to you tomorrow, but if that does not solve that issue we need the unit back to diagnose or you would need to invest in a multimeter.
If you have one then please check the resistance of the ceramic rod, then the assembly. After each section is assembled to quickly diagnose the loose connection.
SlideOrDie
Well-Known Member
Much appreciated boss, I'm almost guaranteeing this will solve the issue. Too bad shit takes forever to get to Canada lol...
I can definitely acquire a DMM tomorrow and run the above tests for you.
Would using a folded piece of tinfoil as Photorider has suggested above give us an answer sooner?
Thanks again!
I wouldn't do that. His testing skills is far ahead of mine and I won't even try his method. Just takes a guy with more experience then me and you combined .
SlideOrDie
Well-Known Member
Ok so I guess I'll hold off until I get my hands on a DMM...
Pretty sure I have one somewhere around the house or in the garage but I'll have to find it when I wake up.
Forgive me if this is a stupid question but where abouts should I be getting my readings from and how many different spots should I be checking?
You said the ceramic rod was one? So I would just touch the positive end of the DMM to the metal part of the rod on it's own and then the neg end of the DMM to a ground?
Thanks again
EDIT - I can thread a normal cart into the bottom insulator of the SR71 and no issues, runs and heats up like normal.
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First set your meter to resistance mode, the symbol that looked like omega letter.
Then take the leads and touch them together remember that number then take the rod and touch the leads to the two terminals that look like gray bands one lead on each band. This will give you a number.
Then take that number and minuse the number you got just from touching the leads by them selves. This would be in the 1.5-1.9 ohm range.
Now assemble the Hercules top and bottom section and then touch the leads. The black going on the buddy and the red on the center pin. The one that has a flat head groove.
Now assemble the bottom Teflon adapter and black lead goes on the thread and red lead center post again. This will tell you where the issue is.
PhotoRider
Diagnosed with level 11 G.A.S.
These are my steps to measure the SR-71 as I assemble it.
First measure the rod by itself:
Next insert the rod into the top, install nut, reverify:
Assemble to the bottom SS tube, recheck:
Install bottom adapter, redo again:
Final assembly and last check.
Ignore the 1.4 to 1.7 change. The leads are just resting there on the last ones. Couldn't use my hands to hold and use camera, old fart I guess...
Last point I always preform that final check everytime I assemble the SR-71. As I have come up that learning curve I skip the others because its based on feel now, but the final verification is near mandatory. In the field I try to avoid removing the bottom tube. That is the highest risk. Reloading etc doesn't require that. Cleaning mostly, changing material types which in effect cleaning.
First measure the rod by itself:
Next insert the rod into the top, install nut, reverify:
Assemble to the bottom SS tube, recheck:
Install bottom adapter, redo again:
Final assembly and last check.
Ignore the 1.4 to 1.7 change. The leads are just resting there on the last ones. Couldn't use my hands to hold and use camera, old fart I guess...
Last point I always preform that final check everytime I assemble the SR-71. As I have come up that learning curve I skip the others because its based on feel now, but the final verification is near mandatory. In the field I try to avoid removing the bottom tube. That is the highest risk. Reloading etc doesn't require that. Cleaning mostly, changing material types which in effect cleaning.
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Vapoholic420
-Loyal To The Oil-
Hey Blazing OG, if I'm just trying to run herb in it, with the 3.7 volt blue heating rod, I'm supposed to use the one long battery and not the two small ones bcuz they'll make it 7.4 volts, and that will be too much for it, correct? Bcuz I just tried it with the 3.7 volt heating rod and the 3.7 volt battery and it's not getting hot or working at all!! I even tried putting herb around the heating rod and it didn't work so I ran it opened up and with nothing in it and it doesn't get hot at all. Am I doing something wrong? I followed the video on how to set it all up so I'm pretty sure it's set up right. Idk, I'm thinking the battery might be the problem or something,I hope! Please, help a brotha out! I just wanna use this bad ass looking thing! But, I won't have no good wax to try out for probably about a week or so. Unfortunately, I don't live in a state where I have access to it easily unless I make it! But hopefully that'll change soon! Lol. Ok, thanks for helping out a newbie to W9 Tech products!!
OF
Well-Known Member
Fun group troubleshooting exercise. Let me do my part to muddy the waters?
You have a working unit as a resource, I'd use 'divide and conquer' to confirm the problem is (as I suspect) in the threads. Substitute parts back and forth (make two broken ones from one broken and one working....) to narrow it down and finally isolate it.
Then, to confirm, perhaps remove the center pin (with the two screw slots) completely from the lower part, I bet it still doesn't screw together?
Looks like a screwed up screw machine part in the excellent photos in post 12386 to me. The first photo seems to show a section of the root of the tread at the end to be way to wide. I bet it doesn't thread on even with no pin inside.
OF
You have a working unit as a resource, I'd use 'divide and conquer' to confirm the problem is (as I suspect) in the threads. Substitute parts back and forth (make two broken ones from one broken and one working....) to narrow it down and finally isolate it.
Then, to confirm, perhaps remove the center pin (with the two screw slots) completely from the lower part, I bet it still doesn't screw together?
Looks like a screwed up screw machine part in the excellent photos in post 12386 to me. The first photo seems to show a section of the root of the tread at the end to be way to wide. I bet it doesn't thread on even with no pin inside.
OF
BLAZING OG
Vaping is a way of life!
yes, you are correct that the blue rod and the longer single battery is needed(imr 18650).
It could be your battery or maybe when you assembled the blue rod,the nut to tighten the rod might of not been as tight and the rod can still move. I would suggest carefully, with out pushing in the rod use your shirt or a rag to really get a grip and tighten nut.
The blue rod doesn't get red hot like the white(7.4v) but it gets burning hot, so something is off or battery is shot.
Try to open herc up and see if the rod is still lined up?
Some people suggest a screen on top of the heat rod and then your herbs.............but at 3.7v (blue rod) you should be able to do herb around the rod(conduction) or screen first then herb (more convection).
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SlideOrDie
Well-Known Member
These are my steps to measure the SR-71 as I assemble it.
First measure the rod by itself:
Next insert the rod into the top, install nut, reverify:
Assemble to the bottom SS tube, recheck:
Install bottom adapter, redo again:
Final assembly and last check.
Ignore the 1.4 to 1.7 change. The leads are just resting there on the last ones. Couldn't use my hands to hold and use camera, old fart I guess...
Last point I always preform that final check everytime I assemble the SR-71. As I have come up that learning curve I skip the others because its based on feel now, but the final verification is near mandatory. In the field I try to avoid removing the bottom tube. That is the highest risk. Reloading etc doesn't require that. Cleaning mostly, changing material types which in effect cleaning.
Thank you sir!
Sorry guys I passed out last night but I just grabbed a couple quick readings with the unit together. I'll take it apart and get more measurements if I need to, but I think these pics show that the bottom of the cart isn't making proper contact with the insulator piece.
slideordie, in that first pic are you trying to show the reading of just your wires? if so its not very accurate, because of the way you are touching the leads... when doing so, you shouldn't touch the metal parts of the leads with your fingers because this adds resistance.
SlideOrDie
Well-Known Member
Tried it with and without my hand on it and was same.
Blazing and THC - I am in a similar situation.
SR-71 using the white rod at 7.4v works amazing.
However, when I switch to the 3.7v imr 18650 (one that came with persei) and install the 3.7v blue rod, the unit gets hot like its supposed to but I cannot get it to produce any vapor. I get flavor and maybe a extremely light wisp. The herb gets browned/almost burned in some areas (where it contacts the rod) and green/fresh towards the top away from the rod. I have the stainless steel top cap so I dont think its an airflow issue because it knocks me on my ass when I'm using 7.4v/white rod.
EDIT: I also tried Vitolo's method of shaking and stirring between hits, but I still couldn't get any visible vapor.