Discontinued The Persei Vaporizer for herbs and concentrates.
- Thread starter THC SCIENTIFIC
- Start date
TommydCat
Well-Known Member
I'd say yes - I've had ISO resurrect a couple of carts, but I'm sure it's not really the recommended thing to do (as it cannot repair the actual wick - only if there was a bad gunk/stuck clog that heat alone can't get). And, of course, you reclaim the wax from the ISO whether or not the cart comes back to life (note: even tho some still "worked", they wouldn't flow, so the electrical side is just part of it).
Good luck and good vaping!
Good luck and good vaping!
PhotoRider
Diagnosed with level 11 G.A.S.
So my 1st post and I am frustrated.
Bought a new Persei, received Saturday and 2 batteries in thekit are dead. Will not charge so I'm SOL. Luckily CR123A are available locally otherwise it would be a paper weight.
Placed ticket on Delta9Vapors and no reply yet. Not so patiently waiting.Their warranty stated that btteries are not covered, but they were bad from the box!
Tried it with CR123A's non recharge. I'm not seeing it. It provides the same draw as my MicroG pin. Course the cart holds a gram and the Micro-G only a small piece, but that's not big deal to me. The Micro-G provides just as much smoke as 2 carts with cr123A's.
At this point I am concerned I made a mistake. With 2 dead batteries out of the box (the 18650 and one 18350) and about the same operation as my Micro-G I am really wondering here. Not impressed with the quality so far. Maybe I should have just bought an EGo 18650 mod with variable volt/watt control and the 510 adapter. They are only $55. Throw in 2 cr123a charge-ables and dial in a 2.4ohm cart with the control. Out the door door less than a Omicron lite or 0-PHOS...
Hopefully Delat9Vapors makes good on the batteries or next stop a CC company charge back.
Bought a new Persei, received Saturday and 2 batteries in thekit are dead. Will not charge so I'm SOL. Luckily CR123A are available locally otherwise it would be a paper weight.
Placed ticket on Delta9Vapors and no reply yet. Not so patiently waiting.Their warranty stated that btteries are not covered, but they were bad from the box!
Tried it with CR123A's non recharge. I'm not seeing it. It provides the same draw as my MicroG pin. Course the cart holds a gram and the Micro-G only a small piece, but that's not big deal to me. The Micro-G provides just as much smoke as 2 carts with cr123A's.
At this point I am concerned I made a mistake. With 2 dead batteries out of the box (the 18650 and one 18350) and about the same operation as my Micro-G I am really wondering here. Not impressed with the quality so far. Maybe I should have just bought an EGo 18650 mod with variable volt/watt control and the 510 adapter. They are only $55. Throw in 2 cr123a charge-ables and dial in a 2.4ohm cart with the control. Out the door door less than a Omicron lite or 0-PHOS...
Hopefully Delat9Vapors makes good on the batteries or next stop a CC company charge back.
Atomsk
Floating In My Tin Can
I can definitely say I had my own hiccups getting my Persei going.
First Persei head came broken, the next one, defected. Then there's learning how to use the carts correctly. How to hit correctly. There's a bit of experimental overhead when it comes to the Persei, and they completely warn you about it on their page. Overall, they've made good on every problem I've had with phenomenal customer service.
The batteries are a raw deal, but if you give them a call it'd expedite the process. I'm sure they can understand something like the batteries being DOA. Their number is on the website.
And sure, you can definitely do the ego mod. Many have done so, and it's a great way to play around more with the Omi-carts. There's no warranty on most of them, and no compatibility with a good number of cool D9 peripherals so you may have some trouble there and might end up spending what you would have spent or more compared to a warrantied Persei. I guess in the end, it's more of what fits your needs. I'm sorry if you may have made the wrong choice here.
However, there are some things you should be aware of. I'm not sure if you're using your Omicarts correctly. Though the Omicron Carts take a full gram in capacity, it's not recommended. Start with .5, and fill / prime it well. The G-pen has the take on the market with something you can load quickly and easily. I believe the Persei takes the cake in terms of efficiency, consistency, and quality.
Remember that just because you're getting some vapor doesn't mean it's happening the way it's supposed to. I went through four 2.4 carts thinking them to be the weakest things to have ever met wax, but when I finally did everything right, I was coughing harder than my first gravity bong hit.
There's a lot of things at play when it comes to these devices, and I think they're justified burdens seeing as this is all fairly new technology. Baring patience, and some more experience, I think you'll find this product worthy of your efforts with every passing day.
PhotoRider
Diagnosed with level 11 G.A.S.
Thanks for the reply Atomsk
I understand what you are saying. I know the how delicate th Persei is and its a fine tuned hy-bread.
I'm using 5ohm carts and have primed them correctly. I've read many pages on this thread, mosting in the beginning 50. Man with 393 pages there is no freaking way I'm reading it all
First, I tested the card. Next I loaded the funnel and BHO. Then heated it per the instructions. If the bottom ever got hot. I used a wet napkin to cool it slightly.
Let it sit (thats a big key cause the material is thick and runs down slowly bubbling). Air must release to allow it to drop.
So I heat it until I smell a little vape smell. Stop. Sit and wait. Repeat
After it gets all in, I then heat the cart by itself still holding on the bottom. I never let the bottom get so hot I can't hold it. If it starts to rise, then wet towel... Let it sit and cool.
Test with 18650 battery (had to run around town to find one thanks to the dead one I got plus plantvape.ca was out otherwise I would have bought a spare like the 18350's I did
)
Repeat with torch
repeat test (repeat torch and test until it draws. then let it cool again)
Test again and get a good but light draw with the 18650.
Move to the 18350's and try it. OK it works about the same as the Micro-G (not the G-pin). The micro-G really works well. I figured out how to load it well - place a piece on the heating coil. Pulse the power and allow to melt into the wick, add another, repeat - this give 5 good draws very similar to a single 7.4V 5 ohm.. Since the coils due wear like the Omicron carts, I just bought 4-5 extras. I load several and found a little rubber cap for carry. Now in seconds I can change the coil and boom, ready again. However, the 4-5 good draws puts be down. Next, I carry the portable charger (it has its own battery) to recharge it on the go. Its made for the Ovale, but the Micro-G is the same. Why I say this was I was pretty happy with this setup, but having 1/2 or better yet 1g of material in the cart is a great feature plus with the dual cart I was intrigued. After the Micro-G my expectations were high I guess...
With two carts it does give more, but having two tips isn't the best and is problematic in my opinion. A single tip would be better. I just threw together my own using the Omicron tips, plastic and rubber tubing. Now it works much better... Yet another item to buy...
While the quality of the unit is good - its clear to see they put detail in it. However, I really don't think its ready for prime time yet. Its a prototype with a horrible user interface - like PC-DOS in 1981. I am also disappointed after a year of release it still pretty much a prototype. That's bad in my book. Instead THC S... have diluted there work on more and more products instead of finishing the one they have. The base unit needs work.
Sure you can use it and most for the advanced user. Being a old senior electrical engineer with many designs under my belt (systems etc - I design ATE to test IC's on the production line - Intel P's are tested on the equipment I was a hardware architect for. Not ringing my chimes, just giving information to show you where I am coming from and that I may know something )
Bottom-line the interface is primitive at the least. Basically a ON/OFF switch. Plus you must change batteries to change the voltage - Oh come on guys! Lets move into the modern world here.
In my opinion - that and $400 may get you a Starbucks latte) it needs the following improvements to justify the $200 price.
A electronic controller that does the following:
1. Give voltage control for the full range of the batteries (if the 18650 goes to 4.2V fully charged,
then the controller can regulate down if you want 3.7. Same goes for for the CE123A's and 18350's).
2. Have wattage control (verses the voltage control). This is really what you want. For the 5ohm,
just set to 10-11W and if the voltage spikes, then the control regulates it.
3. A prime mode program. This program sets the wattage to just a few watts for priming.
Next, it pulses the power automatically to prime the cart. Wattage control adjusts for the cart
resistance automatically. THCS can characterize the carts etc and design several programs based
on material type and resistance.
For extra credit throw in a thermal diode and have feedback so the temp is monitored and kept
at the optimum temp for priming.
4. Use program modes. Again the unit pulses. Several programs with varying on/off times characterized
my cart type and wattage selection.
Again extra credit to add the thermal couple to add feedback.
5. Finally get rid of the cheap POS charger. Having the electronics built in to charge and just require a
cable (not use USB would give enough power, but a wall transformer/cable...
I had high hopes after reading THC S's early posts about this unit was designed for heavy C's unlike the others that were just re-marketed e-cig technology. Yes it is, but only a small step in my mind. It lacks integration and puts all the effort in the users hands. This makes the user base smaller and really only for the most tech-o-crat advanced users who don't mind the learning curve and the extra effort.
For me the real core technology here is the cart, not the base unit. The unit design is really sub-par. Even the battery adjustment is low tech brute force. Don't get me wrong, I welcome KISS, but a mechanical adjustment should be self-adjusting on this. Hell the charger is and is < $10 (yes its a POS too). The units electrical setup is just a on/off switch. Zero electronics. I don't know about the Omicron, only the Persei. The thermal couple would be simple and in the base unit. It would measure the battery connector temp and since the physics of the SS heat transfer is well known, the temp can be calibrated to measure the cart temp at the area around the heating coil.
Doing all this would open the market to many, many users and reduce the use issues. Until then they are just treating symptoms and not solving the root issues.
I bought the full attachments, the Nibbler-X, the Bender and 15 carts. Yes spent $$$. Didn't get the Hercules unit because the 7.4 doesn't seem to be available. Looks like I still need a dual-single tip and good batteries to be complete for me. Part of me says just return it and wait for a better design. Meanwhile use my programmable wattage battery (6V max 1300mA) and 510 adapter. This gives me the features I believe are required. Don't get the low ESR (effective series resistance) batteries like the IMR's so the performance may not be as good, but its like $35. Just use lower resistance carts... Also the attachments don't require the base unit only the carts. I would be interested in trying the Hammer with a programmable pass-through battery while connected to a charger. The Hammer drain would over power the charger some and not having a low ESR setup may cause issues, but worth a try. A battery mod would solve that. Its only $50. As it is the base unit is very, very over priced.
I'll deal with the poor and problematic IF cause I can, but it needs work to really be a top performer and live up to THC S's "its technology designed for heavy C use from the ground up..." comment.
I am trying to give constructive feedback here and just not slam the company. That's my only motivation cause it they created a unit that added this functionalityI would be all over it. My Extreme-Q only cost $240 and is light years ahead in technology.
OK THC S got back to me on the ticket. Their response:
thank you for contacting us, The reason we do not warranty batteries is because people purchase ne batteries and call and complain that our batteries are dead on arrival. After marking the new batteries discretely we found out that people were sending in the old pair and claiming that they were the ones purchased. If you want us to make an exception and switch them, you have to send us back both your old nonworking pair, and the new pair that you purchased.
So now I must send all my new batteries back to them to prove I am not trying to rip them off even through I have had them 48 hours plus they "discretely" mark them to tell (i.e. no need for the other set to prove they are new). Plus pay shipping on a $20 item (that like 30% its cost), hve no batteries until I receive the new ones back or just use the CR123A I ran around town finding. Its not like I can't prove when I got them 48 hours ago.
I'll give them a chance to make this right, but unless I get this resolved quickly and w/o costing me a dime I'm returning everything (all $600 worth), calling my CC company and creating a dispute. Don't have time to do a tit-for-tat with a manufacture on poor quality and as it seems so far poor service. After reading the pages here I expected a lot more. I'm starting to wonder if some of these post here are genuine.
I understand what you are saying. I know the how delicate th Persei is and its a fine tuned hy-bread.
I'm using 5ohm carts and have primed them correctly. I've read many pages on this thread, mosting in the beginning 50. Man with 393 pages there is no freaking way I'm reading it all
First, I tested the card. Next I loaded the funnel and BHO. Then heated it per the instructions. If the bottom ever got hot. I used a wet napkin to cool it slightly.
Let it sit (thats a big key cause the material is thick and runs down slowly bubbling). Air must release to allow it to drop.
So I heat it until I smell a little vape smell. Stop. Sit and wait. Repeat
After it gets all in, I then heat the cart by itself still holding on the bottom. I never let the bottom get so hot I can't hold it. If it starts to rise, then wet towel... Let it sit and cool.
Test with 18650 battery (had to run around town to find one thanks to the dead one I got plus plantvape.ca was out otherwise I would have bought a spare like the 18350's I did
)Repeat with torch
repeat test (repeat torch and test until it draws. then let it cool again)
Test again and get a good but light draw with the 18650.
Move to the 18350's and try it. OK it works about the same as the Micro-G (not the G-pin). The micro-G really works well. I figured out how to load it well - place a piece on the heating coil. Pulse the power and allow to melt into the wick, add another, repeat - this give 5 good draws very similar to a single 7.4V 5 ohm.. Since the coils due wear like the Omicron carts, I just bought 4-5 extras. I load several and found a little rubber cap for carry. Now in seconds I can change the coil and boom, ready again. However, the 4-5 good draws puts be down. Next, I carry the portable charger (it has its own battery) to recharge it on the go. Its made for the Ovale, but the Micro-G is the same. Why I say this was I was pretty happy with this setup, but having 1/2 or better yet 1g of material in the cart is a great feature plus with the dual cart I was intrigued. After the Micro-G my expectations were high I guess...
With two carts it does give more, but having two tips isn't the best and is problematic in my opinion. A single tip would be better. I just threw together my own using the Omicron tips, plastic and rubber tubing. Now it works much better... Yet another item to buy...
While the quality of the unit is good - its clear to see they put detail in it. However, I really don't think its ready for prime time yet. Its a prototype with a horrible user interface - like PC-DOS in 1981. I am also disappointed after a year of release it still pretty much a prototype. That's bad in my book. Instead THC S... have diluted there work on more and more products instead of finishing the one they have. The base unit needs work.
Sure you can use it and most for the advanced user. Being a old senior electrical engineer with many designs under my belt (systems etc - I design ATE to test IC's on the production line - Intel P's are tested on the equipment I was a hardware architect for. Not ringing my chimes, just giving information to show you where I am coming from and that I may know something
)Bottom-line the interface is primitive at the least. Basically a ON/OFF switch. Plus you must change batteries to change the voltage - Oh come on guys! Lets move into the modern world here.
In my opinion - that and $400 may get you a Starbucks latte) it needs the following improvements to justify the $200 price.
A electronic controller that does the following:
1. Give voltage control for the full range of the batteries (if the 18650 goes to 4.2V fully charged,
then the controller can regulate down if you want 3.7. Same goes for for the CE123A's and 18350's).
2. Have wattage control (verses the voltage control). This is really what you want. For the 5ohm,
just set to 10-11W and if the voltage spikes, then the control regulates it.
3. A prime mode program. This program sets the wattage to just a few watts for priming.
Next, it pulses the power automatically to prime the cart. Wattage control adjusts for the cart
resistance automatically. THCS can characterize the carts etc and design several programs based
on material type and resistance.
For extra credit throw in a thermal diode and have feedback so the temp is monitored and kept
at the optimum temp for priming.
4. Use program modes. Again the unit pulses. Several programs with varying on/off times characterized
my cart type and wattage selection.
Again extra credit to add the thermal couple to add feedback.
5. Finally get rid of the cheap POS charger. Having the electronics built in to charge and just require a
cable (not use USB would give enough power, but a wall transformer/cable...
I had high hopes after reading THC S's early posts about this unit was designed for heavy C's unlike the others that were just re-marketed e-cig technology. Yes it is, but only a small step in my mind. It lacks integration and puts all the effort in the users hands. This makes the user base smaller and really only for the most tech-o-crat advanced users who don't mind the learning curve and the extra effort.
For me the real core technology here is the cart, not the base unit. The unit design is really sub-par. Even the battery adjustment is low tech brute force. Don't get me wrong, I welcome KISS, but a mechanical adjustment should be self-adjusting on this. Hell the charger is and is < $10 (yes its a POS too). The units electrical setup is just a on/off switch. Zero electronics. I don't know about the Omicron, only the Persei. The thermal couple would be simple and in the base unit. It would measure the battery connector temp and since the physics of the SS heat transfer is well known, the temp can be calibrated to measure the cart temp at the area around the heating coil.
Doing all this would open the market to many, many users and reduce the use issues. Until then they are just treating symptoms and not solving the root issues.
I bought the full attachments, the Nibbler-X, the Bender and 15 carts. Yes spent $$$. Didn't get the Hercules unit because the 7.4 doesn't seem to be available. Looks like I still need a dual-single tip and good batteries to be complete for me. Part of me says just return it and wait for a better design. Meanwhile use my programmable wattage battery (6V max 1300mA) and 510 adapter. This gives me the features I believe are required. Don't get the low ESR (effective series resistance) batteries like the IMR's so the performance may not be as good, but its like $35. Just use lower resistance carts... Also the attachments don't require the base unit only the carts. I would be interested in trying the Hammer with a programmable pass-through battery while connected to a charger. The Hammer drain would over power the charger some and not having a low ESR setup may cause issues, but worth a try. A battery mod would solve that. Its only $50. As it is the base unit is very, very over priced.
I'll deal with the poor and problematic IF cause I can, but it needs work to really be a top performer and live up to THC S's "its technology designed for heavy C use from the ground up..." comment.
I am trying to give constructive feedback here and just not slam the company. That's my only motivation cause it they created a unit that added this functionalityI would be all over it. My Extreme-Q only cost $240 and is light years ahead in technology.
OK THC S got back to me on the ticket. Their response:
thank you for contacting us, The reason we do not warranty batteries is because people purchase ne batteries and call and complain that our batteries are dead on arrival. After marking the new batteries discretely we found out that people were sending in the old pair and claiming that they were the ones purchased. If you want us to make an exception and switch them, you have to send us back both your old nonworking pair, and the new pair that you purchased.
So now I must send all my new batteries back to them to prove I am not trying to rip them off even through I have had them 48 hours plus they "discretely" mark them to tell (i.e. no need for the other set to prove they are new). Plus pay shipping on a $20 item (that like 30% its cost), hve no batteries until I receive the new ones back or just use the CR123A I ran around town finding. Its not like I can't prove when I got them 48 hours ago.
I'll give them a chance to make this right, but unless I get this resolved quickly and w/o costing me a dime I'm returning everything (all $600 worth), calling my CC company and creating a dispute. Don't have time to do a tit-for-tat with a manufacture on poor quality and as it seems so far poor service. After reading the pages here I expected a lot more. I'm starting to wonder if some of these post here are genuine.
OF
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry you're having problems. I'm amongst those who are confident D9 will sort it out, they have for everyone else we know of. I'm sure you don't really think the 20,000 posts on this and the Omicron thread are faked to lure the unwary in.....and if some of them are fake, but match the otherwise 100% positive CS stories what does that matter? D9 would, IMO, be pretty dumb to get into that.
I hope you understand the rip off problem, I'm sure it's real. TV reported a while back that their $10,000 set aside to 'front' replacements had been exhausted by owners never returning the failed parts for rebuilding. MF has had similar issues. The sad part is there are dishonest people, if someone like D9 lets that happen by 'trusting everyone' that cost will of course be paid by us all in increased prices. The 'as is' status on batteries is unfortunate, but IMO understandable and was stated up front as a condition. My advice is to order AW brand IMRs from Lighthound anyway.
I think you are justified to expect good support, and I think you'll get it like everyone else does, if you hang in there and work with them.
Best of luck.
OF
PhotoRider
Diagnosed with level 11 G.A.S.
Sure there are people always trying to pull a fast one, however, bad Karma for them.
Its not like they don't label now, plus I have a receipt and a delivery conf. This is a new unit with new batteries. No warranty on new stuff? OK, but you better prove to me you checked it before shipping it. If not sorry its bad.
I spent $600 and we are talking about less than $20 worth of parts. Its easier for me to suck it up and just buy batteries from lighthound I guess. It isn't worth the headache to work with them if I keep it. Its not the $$$, its just I expect things to work when they are new and if not, the company resolves it. I don't quite see that yet. To them its an "exception". No, its should be a rule. Them using that position is a flag.
BTW - I said some, not all. However, the http://www.vaporpedia.com/wiki/Persei is like reading a magazine review where they never met a product the didn't like. Everything has up and downs. If I only here raving positives and no constructive feedback then you know. Some of the early posts seem to be buddies, but like you say there are 20000 post and most are good.
The units work even through are primitive in design. They didn't manufacture the batteries, only rep'ed them so they didn't manufacture them wrong. Stuff happens, but I would have preferred to hear from them - oh you just bought it, OK if they check-out as new we ill send you new ones. Here is a shipping label...
Its not like they don't label now, plus I have a receipt and a delivery conf. This is a new unit with new batteries. No warranty on new stuff? OK, but you better prove to me you checked it before shipping it. If not sorry its bad.
I spent $600 and we are talking about less than $20 worth of parts. Its easier for me to suck it up and just buy batteries from lighthound I guess. It isn't worth the headache to work with them if I keep it. Its not the $$$, its just I expect things to work when they are new and if not, the company resolves it. I don't quite see that yet. To them its an "exception". No, its should be a rule. Them using that position is a flag.
BTW - I said some, not all. However, the http://www.vaporpedia.com/wiki/Persei is like reading a magazine review where they never met a product the didn't like. Everything has up and downs. If I only here raving positives and no constructive feedback then you know. Some of the early posts seem to be buddies, but like you say there are 20000 post and most are good.
The units work even through are primitive in design. They didn't manufacture the batteries, only rep'ed them so they didn't manufacture them wrong. Stuff happens, but I would have preferred to hear from them - oh you just bought it, OK if they check-out as new we ill send you new ones. Here is a shipping label...
TommydCat
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry for you to drop that kind of money and feel so frustrated. I've pretty much got the entire kit myself, but assembled over time.
You left some pretty constructive feedback, imo, and I hope D9V takes the time to read and respond. I understand that many things are limited by having a two conductor interface, but for what it's worth, it's been instant-fun rather than waiting for any of my other vapes to heat up. E-cig technology is simplified based on instant gratification rather than tweakability and expandability, and while D9V seems to have evolved from that platform, they are still constrained by it. I think they've done well with what they have and I got some awesome toys to play with!
You left some pretty constructive feedback, imo, and I hope D9V takes the time to read and respond. I understand that many things are limited by having a two conductor interface, but for what it's worth, it's been instant-fun rather than waiting for any of my other vapes to heat up. E-cig technology is simplified based on instant gratification rather than tweakability and expandability, and while D9V seems to have evolved from that platform, they are still constrained by it. I think they've done well with what they have and I got some awesome toys to play with!
PhotoRider
Diagnosed with level 11 G.A.S.
I would agree, the cart is a game changer. All other heavy C carts do not have a tank with a center tube capable of handling heavies. The others are simply a coil at the bottom of a cylinder surrounded by a wick. Can't hold much because it blocks the vape.
The Persei is a step forward to allow duals and configurable voltages with big batteries, but like I said its a prototype. It needs electronics plus a few refinements. I know THC S states he isn't a EE, but that skillset is easy to come by for a contractor rate. I think in the long run it would be cheaper than the support it may cost them with the problematic user interface.
The most important step is "innovation" not "invention". Inventions that doesn't have benefit (a solution looking for a problem ) or are not marketed successfully are not innovation. Innovation is solving a problem and nurturing its solution - continual improvement. You don't even have to be the real creator of the technology. Just the integration into a solution. The idea and the follow through. For example the two Cisco founders (Husband & wife team) didn't really create the router technology. It came from other inventors at Standford. What they did is see a need (being they had a group of friends also wanting the samething helped) and seeing the technology lying around at Standard. The grabbed it, integrated it togetherand gave it a go. Cisco only became Cisco only after they pitched it to Standard and they said Nah. So they left and created Cisco. They were special because it was self funded by customers wanting it so bad they pre-paid. They were profitable w/o taking capitol.My point is the technology was leveraged from others (some say stole...) and their core technology was the integration and continual improvement of the design.
OK enough mother and apple pie. I only bring this up because after a year the unit is pretty much the same. Maybe some manufacturing improvements, but no real design improvements from what I see. They seem to be branching out more products instead of improving the ones they have into solid user friendly units. Sure they can do both, but I don't see that.
OK - I'm keeping it. I'm just rubbed the wrong way. Heck the $20 is chump change, I was just frustrated by getting it and not being able to use it and then the warranty issue... However, I'm past that now. I just used CR123A non charge-ables and took it easy to prime. Most of the priming is done via torch exercising patience and not by the coil until the end. I hold the bottom and make sure it stays OK. Heat/cool/heat/cool cycle. I have loaded and primed 8 carts now (took a couple hours). I got it down to prime a on 5ohm cart with 18650's in about 3-4 tries down. The worst took a couple regeats with a torch. It was real thick. Not trying shatter. Just the BHO/Honeycomb/dry waxes etc.
I am willing to deal with the problematic interface. I ride an old Harley. You talk about problematic interfaces. If it gives me benefit, I'll deal with it. For me its the storage of a gram and thats the cart. The dual carts is the best draw yet I have experienced so yes there is another benefit. Getting the technique down to use was straight forward after all the informative posts here. The pulse action is key and is monitoring the lower cart temp with your finger. I will most probably dedicate the base to the Bender use or the Hammer. Maybe the Hercules if it works out. For travel and probably on Carts I bought an eGo APV V2 (VAMO). Just need the 510-610 adapter now. It uses the same batteries (except 6V max) and has both watt or voltage control. Its a deal at $45 and only down side is single cart. It also converts to a single 18350. Now just adjust the cart resistance... This makes 3-4 ohm much more usable.
I have been on my quest for a good Heavy Vape for some time. The Micro-G was a large step more me especially like many others I have a large collection of tools to medicate (very legally here - stage 4 RCC cancer so not only FC but FF -F is feds). Herb vapes all over, but I have settled on the Extreme-Q at home and the Puffit for travel (it works well, but battery life is not the best). The Hercules may add to this for size it it truly vapes herbs. I have many pen style vapes for oils. All are really e-cigs or based on one. I went through theb VaporCone style and after modification to the mini chamber by adding a brass funnel it works OK if you mess with it. The Micro-G replaced all those. I like the idea the coil is cheap. The VaporCone style the replaceable units for the coil is high priced and lets face it they break. The Omicron carts are a big set in ease of use and carry supply. If the eGo APV V2 (VAMO) works well between the Persei at home and it I think I have a suit of good tools
The Persei is a step forward to allow duals and configurable voltages with big batteries, but like I said its a prototype. It needs electronics plus a few refinements. I know THC S states he isn't a EE, but that skillset is easy to come by for a contractor rate. I think in the long run it would be cheaper than the support it may cost them with the problematic user interface.
The most important step is "innovation" not "invention". Inventions that doesn't have benefit (a solution looking for a problem
) or are not marketed successfully are not innovation. Innovation is solving a problem and nurturing its solution - continual improvement. You don't even have to be the real creator of the technology. Just the integration into a solution. The idea and the follow through. For example the two Cisco founders (Husband & wife team) didn't really create the router technology. It came from other inventors at Standford. What they did is see a need (being they had a group of friends also wanting the samething helped) and seeing the technology lying around at Standard. The grabbed it, integrated it togetherand gave it a go. Cisco only became Cisco only after they pitched it to Standard and they said Nah. So they left and created Cisco. They were special because it was self funded by customers wanting it so bad they pre-paid. They were profitable w/o taking capitol.My point is the technology was leveraged from others (some say stole...) and their core technology was the integration and continual improvement of the design.OK enough mother and apple pie. I only bring this up because after a year the unit is pretty much the same. Maybe some manufacturing improvements, but no real design improvements from what I see. They seem to be branching out more products instead of improving the ones they have into solid user friendly units. Sure they can do both, but I don't see that.
OK - I'm keeping it. I'm just rubbed the wrong way. Heck the $20 is chump change, I was just frustrated by getting it and not being able to use it and then the warranty issue... However, I'm past that now. I just used CR123A non charge-ables and took it easy to prime. Most of the priming is done via torch exercising patience and not by the coil until the end. I hold the bottom and make sure it stays OK. Heat/cool/heat/cool cycle. I have loaded and primed 8 carts now (took a couple hours). I got it down to prime a on 5ohm cart with 18650's in about 3-4 tries down. The worst took a couple regeats with a torch. It was real thick. Not trying shatter. Just the BHO/Honeycomb/dry waxes etc.
I am willing to deal with the problematic interface. I ride an old Harley. You talk about problematic interfaces. If it gives me benefit, I'll deal with it. For me its the storage of a gram and thats the cart. The dual carts is the best draw yet I have experienced so yes there is another benefit. Getting the technique down to use was straight forward after all the informative posts here. The pulse action is key and is monitoring the lower cart temp with your finger. I will most probably dedicate the base to the Bender use or the Hammer. Maybe the Hercules if it works out. For travel and probably on Carts I bought an eGo APV V2 (VAMO). Just need the 510-610 adapter now. It uses the same batteries (except 6V max) and has both watt or voltage control. Its a deal at $45 and only down side is single cart. It also converts to a single 18350. Now just adjust the cart resistance... This makes 3-4 ohm much more usable.
I have been on my quest for a good Heavy Vape for some time. The Micro-G was a large step more me especially like many others I have a large collection of tools to medicate (very legally here - stage 4 RCC cancer so not only FC but FF -F is feds). Herb vapes all over, but I have settled on the Extreme-Q at home and the Puffit for travel (it works well, but battery life is not the best). The Hercules may add to this for size it it truly vapes herbs. I have many pen style vapes for oils. All are really e-cigs or based on one. I went through theb VaporCone style and after modification to the mini chamber by adding a brass funnel it works OK if you mess with it. The Micro-G replaced all those. I like the idea the coil is cheap. The VaporCone style the replaceable units for the coil is high priced and lets face it they break. The Omicron carts are a big set in ease of use and carry supply. If the eGo APV V2 (VAMO) works well between the Persei at home and it I think I have a suit of good tools
OF
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry, I wasn't clear enough, the battery I suggested is clearly superior to the factory one. Actually they're technically cells, but we commonly call single usages "battery" in error. Unlike the alternative supplies (which we erroneously also call "batteries" for some perverse reason.....) like the eGo, the Persei depends heavily on 'battery' quality to get top performance. This is why Persei ends up being superior in many ways. Since I think you should buy fresh batteries, I suggest someone like Lighthound were the conditions of the (purchase) contract covers defects and warranty. They will no doubt replace any problematic units, but are also likely to want the 'defective' ones back as well (for the same reasons I suspect). IMO that's not an unreasonable thing to ask, and should be covered in the terms, but I understand you don't see it that way.
What you call "primitive" I might call 'highly refined'. If you want primitive, that's out there too, but IMO this is not an example. Nor is it in any conventional sense 'just rep'ed by D9'. It's a custom design by D9 (they own the rights), made overseas (as is darn near everything.....). It's not a 'rebranded' anything, nor is it available through any other legitimate channels. It includes a design capable of power levels very very few units are (the one you suggest isn't even close), capacity you pay for with the Persei over Omicron decision. The others don't have dual tops because they're tapped out with driving one cart at best. They lack the power of Persei. Likewise, the lack of the 10 second nominal time out is a useful feather not available anywhere else.....save those shoddy 'switch in a box Mods' and the TV supplies. Persei and the TV products are probably 'in a class of their own' here for practical purposes. IMO they both enjoy loyal followings because they've earned them though solid performance and excellent Customer Service.
I hope you'll come to share that opinion.
By all means carefully look at the make and model battery I suggested? BTW, did you look at Cera?
Good luck with your Persei, IMO it's a solid unit you'll enjoy when you get it sorted out.
OF
ataxian
PALE BLUE DOT
Welcome to the site and especially this tread!I would agree, the cart is a game changer. The Persei is a step forward to allow duals and configurable voltages with big batteries, but like I said its a prototype. It needs electronics plus a few refinements.
I have been on my quest for a good Heavy Vape for some time.
If you have read some of the post then you must realize there are a few loyal followers.
I started with the PERSEI VAPORIZER for concentrates and failed my first cart.
"OF" guided me through the errors of my ways!
After creating a quiver of batteries there is no turning back for me.
I like things that are solid and well made.
Many of the pens I have were freebies when I got my Medical License so I do have some e-pens.
Yes they seem to be built in the HASBRO Factory.
What I like about the PERSEI is it's solid and well built.
I'm not going to the boat dock with a cheap e-pen.
For travel I like the SS Kit and the SHORTY.
The BENDER is complete INDULGENCE!
Wait for the HERCULES V2 (I currently have 2 units of V1)
DUAL Carts I have set up on one of my units and it's amazing!
The IRIS V2 I want.
Sorry to hear about you batteries!
Get a quiver started.
Kind regards,
ataxian
PURE GOLD with a CR123 3.0V Battery is your friend!
You can play with the combinations of carts and batteries!
Please respond a to the ticket that you created on our website with a copy of your receipt attached, we will make decision based on the purchase date of the receipt.
PhotoRider
Diagnosed with level 11 G.A.S.
OF,
I think there is some confusion here. I didn't say the base was rep'ed - I said the batteries were. They didn't design/make them. I was being fair and giving them credit. Never said the base wasn't their design - just the batteries or as you say CELLs Lets be fair.
2nd I have no issue sending my "BAD" batteries back. Want I thought was unreasonable was to have be pay shipping plus return the good batteries leaving me w/o batteries
You say the Persei is light years ahead of the eGo mod I noted - why? - technically justify that. Both use the same "CELLs" which is where the power comes from. Unless the electronics of the eGo mod reduces the power I don't understand. Yes the mod eGo only only goes to 6V, but the cart resistance can be adjusted for that. It does support 15W.
I guess we will agree to disagree here. After 35 years as an engineer by idea of a refined design has a high (much higher in fact) standard. The unit isn't refined, its a proto. Hopefully they refine it. If you really believe that please detail the refinements technically. What I will say what it was designed for works and the unit is well made. What my point is it needs more refinements - i.e. electronics for control.
Personally I think the lack of time-out isn't that important. For one you can't do that in most of the configurations. If you do you will over heat the cart. Instead it would be much better to have a pulse feature so you don't do that and better yet a temp feedback to keep the temp constant like a true vaporizer - Volcano/Extreme-Q etc.
From your post it seems you drank some Kool-Aid In other words I don't think you are being completely objective. That's OK. cause its your choice and I respect that.
Bottom-line. The unit works, is well made and solid. I will keep it. I will also review the Mod I bought against it and objectively. I am sure the quality of the eGo will not be the same and it will be cheaper made. The Persei workmanship is top notch for sure. What is there is well design and manufactured, it is just incomplete.
I hope like you I come to agree with you and completely fall in love. My quest is to medicate, not to tear suppliers apart. No profit in that.Keep in mind I took the time to really look at this unit and constructively give feedback. I have figured it out and got 8 carts loaded and primed. Got to to make more BHO to fill the others...
I think there is some confusion here. I didn't say the base was rep'ed - I said the batteries were. They didn't design/make them. I was being fair and giving them credit. Never said the base wasn't their design - just the batteries or as you say CELLs
Lets be fair.2nd I have no issue sending my "BAD" batteries back. Want I thought was unreasonable was to have be pay shipping plus return the good batteries leaving me w/o batteries
You say the Persei is light years ahead of the eGo mod I noted - why? - technically justify that. Both use the same "CELLs" which is where the power comes from. Unless the electronics of the eGo mod reduces the power I don't understand. Yes the mod eGo only only goes to 6V, but the cart resistance can be adjusted for that. It does support 15W.
I guess we will agree to disagree here. After 35 years as an engineer by idea of a refined design has a high (much higher in fact) standard. The unit isn't refined, its a proto. Hopefully they refine it. If you really believe that please detail the refinements technically. What I will say what it was designed for works and the unit is well made. What my point is it needs more refinements - i.e. electronics for control.
Personally I think the lack of time-out isn't that important. For one you can't do that in most of the configurations. If you do you will over heat the cart. Instead it would be much better to have a pulse feature so you don't do that and better yet a temp feedback to keep the temp constant like a true vaporizer - Volcano/Extreme-Q etc.
From your post it seems you drank some Kool-Aid
In other words I don't think you are being completely objective. That's OK. cause its your choice and I respect that.Bottom-line. The unit works, is well made and solid. I will keep it. I will also review the Mod I bought against it and objectively. I am sure the quality of the eGo will not be the same and it will be cheaper made. The Persei workmanship is top notch for sure. What is there is well design and manufactured, it is just incomplete.
I hope like you I come to agree with you and completely fall in love. My quest is to medicate, not to tear suppliers apart. No profit in that.Keep in mind I took the time to really look at this unit and constructively give feedback. I have figured it out and got 8 carts loaded and primed. Got to to make more BHO to fill the others...
TommydCat
Well-Known Member
You said originally you used a 18650 to get the cart going? If just a single at 3.7v (maybe 4.2v if topped), it's going to be weak-sauce at best to see anything come out of a 5.0 ohm cartridge. Even the 3.0 ohm cartridges are barely workable in this area (with an exception of using Pure Gold as a load, which is sort of an entirely different ball-game anyway).
The 6.0 volt CR123A's you're currently using are pretty easy on the 5.0 ohm cartridges and actually an ideal range for learning how to master them (similar to the 3.7v 2.4ohm setup - slightly warmer but actually easier on the cart). You can basically use it like a soldering iron in this range, but you'll quickly find this isn't the best way, though you can still get respectable clouds through technique. Developing a fluting method, you'll learn to control the relationship between vaping what's in the coil at the moment to getting the oil to the right temperature to flow into the coil (so you can vape more!), and by modulating the on/off cycles you can control both to find the right relationship for the consistency of the particular oil that's in the particular cart it's in (yes, carts can develop "personalities" as well, especially after the 3rd gram! Reason why D9V wants you to replace them is to maintain a consistent experience, rather than us cheap-skates that put up with "personality").
Using dual 18350's at 7.4v (actually top up north of there) will be a kick in the butt and where discretion becomes the better part of valor - an attempt at the soldering iron method will leave you with a puddle of nasty burnt oil. Fluting isn't just desirable, but necessary and you'll find in this range rather than just maintaining a heat relationship, it starts acting as if the button is actually pumping, if you can find the groove. Perhaps after learning at 6.0v how to flute a bigger cloud than just holding the button
Edit after seeing your other response: I believe these heads can handle much more than 15W, though I'm not sure what the actual current draw of the Hammer is (assuming the resistance changes as it heats). And I hear you about the electronics - the Iris 2.0 head is eagerly awaited so we can stop swapping batteries, but still no "smarts" in the way of regulation for heat control. That's one of the things that endears the MFLB to some people, yet makes it unbearable to others. There's still a learning curve, which much of the refinement would help to ease, if not eliminate.
The 6.0 volt CR123A's you're currently using are pretty easy on the 5.0 ohm cartridges and actually an ideal range for learning how to master them (similar to the 3.7v 2.4ohm setup - slightly warmer but actually easier on the cart). You can basically use it like a soldering iron in this range, but you'll quickly find this isn't the best way, though you can still get respectable clouds through technique. Developing a fluting method, you'll learn to control the relationship between vaping what's in the coil at the moment to getting the oil to the right temperature to flow into the coil (so you can vape more!), and by modulating the on/off cycles you can control both to find the right relationship for the consistency of the particular oil that's in the particular cart it's in (yes, carts can develop "personalities" as well, especially after the 3rd gram! Reason why D9V wants you to replace them is to maintain a consistent experience, rather than us cheap-skates that put up with "personality").
Using dual 18350's at 7.4v (actually top up north of there) will be a kick in the butt and where discretion becomes the better part of valor - an attempt at the soldering iron method will leave you with a puddle of nasty burnt oil. Fluting isn't just desirable, but necessary and you'll find in this range rather than just maintaining a heat relationship, it starts acting as if the button is actually pumping, if you can find the groove. Perhaps after learning at 6.0v how to flute a bigger cloud than just holding the button
Edit after seeing your other response: I believe these heads can handle much more than 15W, though I'm not sure what the actual current draw of the Hammer is (assuming the resistance changes as it heats). And I hear you about the electronics - the Iris 2.0 head is eagerly awaited so we can stop swapping batteries, but still no "smarts" in the way of regulation for heat control. That's one of the things that endears the MFLB to some people, yet makes it unbearable to others. There's still a learning curve, which much of the refinement would help to ease, if not eliminate.
PhotoRider
Diagnosed with level 11 G.A.S.
Done, both the receipt and USPS shipment conf.
ataxian
PALE BLUE DOT
The IRIS 2.0 ideally will be a nice addition to the PERSEI Quiver.
I have a device that goes up to 5.0 V and 3 ohms however I only really use it to check out PURE GOLD cartomizers.
PhotoRider
Diagnosed with level 11 G.A.S.
You said originally you used a 18650 to get the cart going? If just a single at 3.7v (maybe 4.2v if topped), it's going to be weak-sauce at best to see anything come out of a 5.0 ohm cartridge. Even the 3.0 ohm cartridges are barely workable in this area (with an exception of using Pure Gold as a load, which is sort of an entirely different ball-game anyway).
The 6.0 volt CR123A's you're currently using are pretty easy on the 5.0 ohm cartridges and actually an ideal range for learning how to master them (similar to the 3.7v 2.4ohm setup - slightly warmer but actually easier on the cart). You can basically use it like a soldering iron in this range, but you'll quickly find this isn't the best way, though you can still get respectable clouds through technique. Developing a fluting method, you'll learn to control the relationship between vaping what's in the coil at the moment to getting the oil to the right temperature to flow into the coil (so you can vape more!), and by modulating the on/off cycles you can control both to find the right relationship for the consistency of the particular oil that's in the particular cart it's in (yes, carts can develop "personalities" as well, especially after the 3rd gram! Reason why D9V wants you to replace them is to maintain a consistent experience, rather than us cheap-skates that put up with "personality").
Using dual 18350's at 7.4v (actually top up north of there) will be a kick in the butt and where discretion becomes the better part of valor - an attempt at the soldering iron method will leave you with a puddle of nasty burnt oil. Fluting isn't just desirable, but necessary and you'll find in this range rather than just maintaining a heat relationship, it starts acting as if the button is actually pumping, if you can find the groove. Perhaps after learning at 6.0v how to flute a bigger cloud than just holding the button
Edit after seeing your other response: I believe these heads can handle much more than 15W, though I'm not sure what the actual current draw of the Hammer is (assuming the resistance changes as it heats). And I hear you about the electronics - the Iris 2.0 head is eagerly awaited so we can stop swapping batteries, but still no "smarts" in the way of regulation for heat control. That's one of the things that endears the MFLB to some people, yet makes it unbearable to others. There's still a learning curve, which much of the refinement would help to ease, if not eliminate.
I only used the 18350 to prime the 5 ohm cart. However, since mine was dead, I used two non recharge CR123A's to prime my first cart. Then I changed to 2 18350 cells and ran at 7.4V (or more they were fresh). Since the first cart I found a 18650 IMR locally. Probably not the quality of the stock one (maybe better ince it works and the kit one is dead
).So explain the "IRIS 2.0"... what is it?
BTW all serious vapes have heat feedback not just MFLB.
I understand I have posted some negative comments to a group disciples (tongue and cheek)
Finally - I think THC S is doing a great job and I am very happy they are doing this. As I said the carts are special and clearly their core technology. The base technology is still being developed. I will support them - they are providing a service and a game changer. WE need companies like this because the big players will not take that step - they will milk the current technology. It takes a small start-up to take the risk and do revolutionary changes. They clearly have the vision and that's the most important key - where there is a will there is a way... I just want the evolution to continue. Sorry I'm in a rush since my time on this earth is somewhat limited.
Atomsk
Floating In My Tin Can
I hope you don't think you're just being retaliated against by a group of fanboys.
The truth of the matter is, so many people come in this thread complaining and worried that they've spent too much on a product that doesn't work. In all that negative rage, they say a lot of stuff about how they could have made this product, or how they've been ripped off buying a rebranded e-cig.
Then a few helpful posts and some experimentation later, they're always back with thanks.
There's a lot of contributors here who have helped hundreds of people with complaints a lot like yours, I mean, it's a 392 page thread. So if you feel like this is a well rehearsed backlash, it's because it is. But don't think that it was all made for you, this is a year and a half of answering the same question, offering the same advice, and hearing the same old shtick from newbies to Persei.
I was there before. A lot of us were.
Get some good batteries, the right consistency concentrate (you said yours was "thick", if you mean budder, that's great for the Omicarts, if you mean shatter, you'll have a hard time), and keep refining your technique (the wet napkin thing doesn't work so well compared to never reaching that temperature. the seals you're trying to keep from overheating are inside), and I'm confident that you'll be so medicated you'll soon forget all this start-up trouble.
Good luck.
Edit:
The Iris is a variable voltage Persei top that you can use to adjust voltage & read cart levels. It's a lot like the Vamo in that sense, except that you can, if you have enough Persei tubes, put a lot more battery behind it. Imagine 2-3 18650's running at 3.7v. You'd never run out of power and would look like you're wielding a light-saber hilt.
Scott G
Ridin Dirty
PhotoRider have faith in D9, they will get you all squared away!
Mod note: When possible, please avoid making back-to-back posts in a thread. Use the Edit feature located at the bottom of your posts. Posts merged.
bump?!
Mod note: When possible, please avoid making back-to-back posts in a thread. Use the Edit feature located at the bottom of your posts. Posts merged.
PhotoRider
Diagnosed with level 11 G.A.S.
Oh, I said tongue and cheek - It was a joke. No worries. I'm a big boy. yes a lot of good info there. As I said 392 pages and no way I'm reading it all. In fact I didn't want to read the whiners. They have no value to me. I wanted real technical info.
At least give me some credit here. I have figured this out in a day. Loaded and primed 8 carts w/o an issue.
Yes the towel thing is not the best, but I only do it to cool it down if it gets to hot i.e. an except not a rule. I understand the seal issue and have not harmed a cart. However I am not a typical user... Also I never posted that I was having an use issue with the Persei - I only posted I got bad batteries. Then I posted my thoughts on the design and lack of technology. Never said I couldn't figure it out, it didn't work etc. In fact I had two carts operational (and 4 carts loaded before I even posted here). I don't fit your model of the posts you state....
Not using budder or shatter. BHO only and honeycomb. 7 different types. Keep in mind I make my own and have for 30 years. Old grower from the Santa Cruz mountains
Thick is relative - no way I am trying budder/shatter. Don't like working with it. I got a couple to prime quickly and one was hard. I think I can tell now how the heavy C will react.After trying for a while to make e-liq from stuff - I gave up. The Glycerin doesn't hold enough meds in my opinion. 20% max and heavy C as you know is much more. So I gave up. Hash oil works, but you know.
planetvape.ca states expected shipment on 5/31/2013 for them... be patient cause there will be a mad rush for them. Like a Iphone
So is this the 18650 to get?
http://www.lighthound.com/RediLast-...mAh-Rechargeable-Lithium-Battery-_p_4176.html
Also, I don't see the 18350 other than the standard AW 700mah. Is there another one?
I don't plan on using the 18650 much - just to prime. Normal use would be 2 18350's to run 7.4V or 2 cr123A's running at 6V. Then a single 18350 in the eGo Mod shorty if it works
Mod note: When possible, please avoid making back-to-back posts in a thread. Use the Edit feature located at the bottom of your posts. Three posts merged.
PhotoRider
Diagnosed with level 11 G.A.S.
Oh, I said tongue and cheek - It was a joke. No worries. I'm a big boy. yes a lot of good info there. As I said 392 pages and no way I'm reading it all. In fact I didn't want to read the whiners. They have no value to me. I wanted real technical info.
At least give me some credit here. I have figured this out in a day. Loaded and primed 8 carts w/o an issue.
Yes the towel thing is not the best, but I only do it to cool it down if it gets to hot i.e. an except not a rule. I understand the seal issue and have not harmed a cart. However I am not a typical user... Also I never posted that I was having an use issue with the Persei - I only posted I got bad batteries. Then I posted my thoughts on the design and lack of technology. Never said I couldn't figure it out, it didn't work etc. In fact I had two carts operational (and 4 carts loaded before I even posted here). I don't fit your model of the posts you state....
Not using budder or shatter. BHO only and honeycomb. 7 different types. Keep in mind I make my own and have for 30 years. Old grower from the Santa Cruz mountains
After trying for a while to make e-liq from stuff - I gave up. The Glycerin doesn't hold enough meds in my opinion. 20% max and heavy C as you know is much more. So I gave up. Hash oil works, but you know.
planetvape.ca states expected shipment on 5/31/2013 for them... be patient cause there will be a mad rush for them. Like a Iphone
So is this the 18650 to get?
http://www.lighthound.com/RediLast-...mAh-Rechargeable-Lithium-Battery-_p_4176.html
Also, I don't see the 18350 other than the standard AW 700mah. Is there another one?
I don't plan on using the 18650 much - just to prime. Normal use would be 2 18350's to run 7.4V or 2 cr123A's running at 6V. Then a single 18350 in the eGo Mod shorty if it works
Mod note: When possible, please avoid making back-to-back posts in a thread. Use the Edit feature located at the bottom of your posts. Three posts merged.
OH I posted the wrong link. I meant:
http://www.lighthound.com/AW-18650-Protected-3400-mAh-Rechargeable-Lithium-Battery-_p_4149.html
MOD - oh how do I get my post count up if I just can't post back to back continually?
Crap, I screwed up again. I hit reply instead of edit. Darn. Sorry MOD it wasn't on purpose. I plea senior moment
Bob Loblaw
Astralnaut
http://www.lighthound.com/AW-IMR-18650-2000mAh-LiMN-Rechargeable-Lithium-Battery_p_4075.htmlOH I posted the wrong link. I meant:
http://www.lighthound.com/AW-18650-Protected-3400-mAh-Rechargeable-Lithium-Battery-_p_4149.html
MOD - oh how do I get my post count up if I just can't post back to back continually?
Crap, I screwed up again. I hit reply instead of edit. Darn. Sorry MOD it wasn't on purpose. I plea senior moment
the 18350 aw imr red batt
http://www.lighthound.com/AW-IMR-18350-700mAh-LiMN-Rechargeable-Lithium-Battery_p_3818.