The most important vaporization discussion we need to have. (Your Vape Mail)

[florduh]

From what I’m hearing in the e-cig community, there are alternative shipment networks being rolled out now. I’m sure it will be more expensive than even UPS, but if the total price outperforms brick and mortar stores, I’ll still just wait at home for delivery. Shit, I’d do that even at an equal price point.

It does strike me as odd that in a few weeks I’ll be able to have a Schedule 1 drug delivered to my door, but not zero nicotine vape juice.

 

[ProfessionalHandJob]

From what I’m hearing in the e-cig community, there are alternative shipment networks being rolled out now. I’m sure it will be more expensive than even UPS, but if the total price outperforms brick and mortar stores, I’ll still just wait at home for delivery. Shit, I’d do that even at an equal price point.

It does strike me as odd that in a few weeks I’ll be able to have a Schedule 1 drug delivered to my door, but not zero nicotine vape juice.

Did you see where some states have like a $20 tax on an $79 Vaporesso Gen S because of PACT. Plus added shipping costs, puts the mod at over $110. Two weeks ago that mod was $45.

 

[Planck]

The law is designed to keep completely legal products out of the hands of children.

Yeah na!
The law is designed to (re)enforce the nicotine monopoly enjoyed by big tobacco and pharma. The law is designed to protect and enhance government revenue generated by the Master Settlement agreement.
The law is designed to protect tax revenue generated by tobacco sales.

The law is also going to Fuck the kids, they can smoke cigarettes.

 

[RustyOldNail]

Yeah na!
The law is designed to (re)enforce the nicotine monopoly enjoyed by big tobacco and pharma. The law is designed to protect and enhance government revenue generated by the Master Settlement agreement.
The law is designed to protect tax revenue generated by tobacco sales.

The law is also going to Fuck the kids, they can smoke cigarettes.

100%. That’s basically it, in short form.
FOLLOW da MONEY.... $$$

 

[Hackerman]

Not sure what big tobacco would have against vapes. They own all the vape companies. Juul is owned by Marlboro. I think it was Altria Tobacco and now International Tobbacco or something like that. But the big tobacco companies bought all the big vape companies as soon as it was obvious vapes were the next step. I didn't 'follow the money' on all the vape companies but I'll bet a buck that they are all owned by tobacco, now.

As I recall something I read, PACT was about tobacco tax revenue like Planck said above.

But... er, ah, I mean... It's all for the children.

Welcome to 21st century America.

 

[florduh]

Not sure what big tobacco would have against vapes. They own all the vape companies. Juul is owned by Marlboro. I think it was Altria Tobacco and now International Tobbacco or something like that. But the big tobacco companies bought all the big vape companies as soon as it was obvious vapes were the next step. I didn't 'follow the money' on all the vape companies but I'll bet a buck that they are all owned by tobacco, now.

As I recall something I read, PACT was about tobacco tax revenue like Planck said above.

But... er, ah, I mean... It's all for the children.

Welcome to 21st century America.

This big tobacco companies didn't like that cheaper, higher quality vape products are available online. This move will force anyone who wants to vape nicotine to a gas station where only their, grossly over priced and over taxed, products are sold.

 

[Hackerman]

I stopped in the local Vapor Station here in town to talk to the owner. Vapor Station is a franchise brick and mortar e-cig store. They don't have anything that is used for dry herb or concentrate. All juice and devices for juice.

He is thrilled about the ban. He said, "Now, instead of people buying online, they have to come to me".

So, I don't know about gas stations but this guy seemed to be happy about it. Albeit, he was not very informed about it. Still..... one man's poison.

 

[florduh]

I stopped in the local Vapor Station here in town to talk to the owner. Vapor Station is a franchise brick and mortar e-cig store. They don't have anything that is used for dry herb or concentrate. All juice and devices for juice.

He is thrilled about the ban. He said, "Now, instead of people buying online, they have to come to me".

So, I don't know about gas stations but this guy seemed to be happy about it. Albeit, he was not very informed about it. Still..... one man's poison.

Right. But I think he's required to collect local tobacco sin taxes, where online stores are not. That's the purpose of the law. Tobacco companies didn't want to compete on price, quality, or service. Much easier just to buy a few politicians and get them to put your competitors out of business.

 

[RustyOldNail]

Right. But I think he's required to collect local tobacco sin taxes, where online stores are not. That's the purpose of the law. Tobacco companies didn't want to compete on price, quality, or service. Much easier just to buy a few politicians and get them to put your competitors out of business.

EXACTLY. And for newbies, this has been going on for years now. Multiple attacks, on multiple fronts. They finally found 1 smart person, that thought.... hmm.. all these other bans are getting really complicated. Let’s just cut off the supply line. And if tiny shipping companies deliver banned goods, they will be gone quickly.

How much is a bike messenger delivery cost, coast to coast? Pedal fast...

 

[Planck]

Nothing screams free market capitalism like strong legal monopolies! /nods

 

[Tranquility]

Yeah na!
The law is designed to (re)enforce the nicotine monopoly enjoyed by big tobacco and pharma. The law is designed to protect and enhance government revenue generated by the Master Settlement agreement.
The law is designed to protect tax revenue generated by tobacco sales.

The law is also going to Fuck the kids, they can smoke cigarettes.

Now, do ALL the other laws.

Of course, anytime any politician calls out "it's for the children" or "have you no decency" or any of the other trite phrases they say in justification of whatever they're doing, you can find the actual reason by following the money behind the law. There's ALWAYS money behind the law. Always.

It's almost like those who pass the laws use marketing to convince rubes they're fighting for them rather than admitting it's all about power and money.

 

[EliumVapor]

Is no one planning to ship via UPS access points? I had mentioned that I spoke with them about it and they said they will still be allowing vaporizer shipments to go through these access points. It's pretty easy to run down the street and pick up the device your ordered.

 

[invertedisdead]

Is no one planning to ship via UPS access points? I had mentioned that I spoke with them about it and they said they will still be allowing vaporizer shipments to go through these access points. It's pretty easy to run down the street and pick up the device your ordered.

How high up the chain was the person you spoke with?

I guess I don’t understand what would make using an access point any more acceptable, when the parcel still has to travel through their delivery network to get to one?

 

[florduh]

How high up the chain was the person you spoke with?

I guess I don’t understand what would make using an access point any more acceptable, when the parcel still has to travel through their delivery network to get to one?

The only thing I could think is, most UPS access points (all?) are at UPS stores. Maybe they'll allow it because an employee can check ID before handing over the package? Big, if true but it seems odd.

 

[RustyOldNail]

How high up the chain was the person you spoke with?

I guess I don’t understand what would make using an access point any more acceptable, when the parcel still has to travel through their delivery network to get to one?

Perhaps he is thinking of the “have to sign for” package requirements the new laws supposedly include. But, yeah, how are these packages getting to an “access point”.

 

[invertedisdead]

@florduh @RustyOldNail
can you imagine needing to fill out a FFL application at the local vape store, as if you’re registering a handgun...

I’m just joking, but with ATF oversight, I wouldn’t be surprised either...

Would any of us pass the background check?

 

[Hackerman]

There are access points all over ever town (well, most towns). Like @EliumVapor said, UPS stores. Mailboxes, etc stores. Kinko's. A ton of these type of stores exist everywhere I have ever been (albeit, I have not been everywhere). But, again, as @EliumVapor said, this is an easy work around (at least for now).

And, yes.... it's about being able to check the recipient's ID. FedEx, UPS, etc won't do that because it means knocking on my door. Waiting until my old ass gets off the chair and comes to the door and looks out the window and can't see who it is so I go to the kitchen to get my glasses and on the way I remember the bird in the oven so I stop to check it while the delivery agent knocks for the third time. LMAO FedEx would be down to delivering about 4 packages a day. LOL So, I can see their point in refusal.

However, I have a question. If the owner of the UPS store (franchises, I believe) act as the agent, will they be responsible for whatever paperwork is required by the PACT law? If so, that might toss a monkey wrench into that idea.

 

[EliumVapor]

The law states you cannot ship direct to consumer. However shipping from Business to business is still legal. The access point is considered a business and if we can ship to the access point and have the customer pick up the product and age verify it should follow the letter of the law.

 

[RustyOldNail]

LOOP HOLES can always be CLOSED......

 

[EliumVapor]

I have a follow up call with my UPS account manager tomorrow. From the first call it seemed this is a great solution. I will ask more direct questions about how this will work and let you all know. If you have any questions you would like me to include please let me know.

 

[BrianTL]

Oddly enough I can get booze delivered to my door with my "ID checked by delivery driver" (I dont believe thats ever really happened) without the need of an access point.

But yes I believe the entire "intent" of the law is to prevent underage kids from ordering shit to their front door and not getting ID'd. I absolutely dont buy that as the true reasoning but whatever. My understanding is you can still ship to pick up points, just not the consumer's place - be it residential or commercial.

@EliumVapor I would be curious, provided its an option... does the access point owner have to pre-approve this thing or does being an access point partner automatically mean you have to accept shipments from UPS on behalf of others?

For example, searching UPS access points shows a grocery store, advance autoparts, a michaels craft store, a CVS...

Are all of these places obligated to receive a package on my behalf? Does it require pre-approval? Maybe I've just never noticed it but I cant recall ever seeing an option to ship to my local advanced auto parts.

@florduh @RustyOldNail
can you imagine needing to fill out a FFL application at the local vape store, as if you’re registering a handgun...

I’m just joking, but with ATF oversight, I wouldn’t be surprised either...

Would any of us pass the background check?

And then after you pass the background, send your paperwork up to the state and let them dilly dally for a month before they "allow" you to go pick up your own property...that you paid for...a month ago...after a 2 year long initial approval process...

For all we know this another tool in the ATFs box to cross reference MJ users and gun owners... (ok there goes the tin foil hat)

 

[flammy]

The law states you cannot ship direct to consumer. However shipping from Business to business is still legal. The access point is considered a business and if we can ship to the access point and have the customer pick up the product and age verify it should follow the letter of the law.

This seems like a dangerous proposition for UPS and/or the access point. A common carrier is not allowed to knowingly evade compliance with the PACT Act. If they do, they are subject to the same penalties as a seller.

 

[invertedisdead]

This is the most comprehensive page I’ve seen regarding UPS:

Shipping Special-Care or Regulated Items | UPS - United States

Learn about how to ship regulated and special care items with UPS, from perishables and wine to firearms and animals.

www.ups.com

“For any approved Vaping Products shipment, Shippers must obtain and use a specially-issued UPS account number approved for the shipment of any Vaping Products. Vaping Product accounts can only be used for the shipment of Vaping Products or related accessories.“

I just ran a quote for a UPS Parcel and the Adult Signature Required fee is $6.70 by itself. $19.15 total for UPS Ground in a 6x9 package (common mailer size)

 

[EliumVapor]

This seems like a dangerous proposition for UPS and/or the access point. A common carrier is not allowed to knowingly evade compliance with the PACT Act. If they do, they are subject to the same penalties as a seller.

They would be following the law though. They would be a retail location, they would be age verifying and we would not be shipping direct to consumer and neither would they.

 

[BrianTL]

This is the most comprehensive page I’ve seen regarding UPS:

Shipping Special-Care or Regulated Items | UPS - United States

Learn about how to ship regulated and special care items with UPS, from perishables and wine to firearms and animals.

www.ups.com

“For any approved Vaping Products shipment, Shippers must obtain and use a specially-issued UPS account number approved for the shipment of any Vaping Products. Vaping Product accounts can only be used for the shipment of Vaping Products or related accessories.“

I just ran a quote for a UPS Parcel and the Adult Signature Required fee is $6.70 by itself. $19.15 total for UPS Ground in a 6x9 package (common mailer size)

I'll just go fuck myself

To ensure compliance with New York law, UPS no longer accepts for shipment any Vaping Product or accessories including devices to or from the State of New York, even if a Shipper or consignee is permitted to ship and receive Vaping Products under New York law. For the purpose of the New York prohibition, Vaping Products includes any and all noncombustible liquid or gel, regardless of the presence of nicotine, capable of being used with or for the consumption of nicotine and related accessories. To ship Vaping Products approved by the United States Food and Drug Administration to a consignee in New York, approved Vaping Product Shippers must receive prior written approval from UPS.