The MMA Discussion Dojo

[stonemonkey55]

Anyone catch this last night? It wasn't one of the better UFC cards and the fight I was most excited for was a stinker. We all thought Shogun was gonna tear Coleman's head off but couldn't finish him until late in the third. Coleman was gassed by the second round, as was Shogun. I am really disappointed as all signs point to steroid use for Shogun in his pride days because the guy that fought Coleman looks nothing like the guy that tore through the 2005 middleweight grand prix.

Denis Kang also disappointed. The guy has a lot of talent and was actually outstiking Belcher for the majority of the fight. He also dominated the takedowns and while he didn't inflict much damage, he had positional dominance for most of the fight. I've noticed that Kang loses focus easily and this fight was no different, after dominating for close to two rounds, he goes for a sloppy double leg and gets caught in a guillotine. For someone who trains at ATT, his BJJ should be WAY better than that. What a disappointing debut, so much for calling out Anderson Silva afterwards...

Franklin/Hendo should have been a 5 round fight. 3 rounders just aren't long enough to decide the superior fighter. It looked like Franklin was turning this fight around but Hendo did enough greco roman, ground control to get the split decision.

Davis/Lytle fight was pretty good but nothing like I imagined it would be. I was suprised to see how huge Lytle looked, usually Marcus Davis has the size advantage but not last night.

One pet peeve of mine is, if you are goiing to throw kicks, use some technique or at least don't fall on your ass. It looks pathetic when they throw kicks, slip, and then fall. You wonder if they practice any technique at all...

 

[eLiguL]

I was trying to 'fill' someone in on the testing practices in Japan, its non-existent basically. They didnt want to hear that about their hero Shogun and the infamous Vitamin S.

I personally feel that Kang has a tendency to choke on his big fights. His claim to fame was a knockout of Ninja, who as of late, has been getting knocked out by everyone. He also walked right into a triangle against Mousassi, maybe Kalib Starnes has been getting into Kang's ear.

I understand that Dan has accomplished a lot in his years of MMA but I have to say that he is one of the most boring fighters as of late. I find hes the type of fighter that fights not to lose instead of fighting to win. What really burns me is how he walks to the mic after and talks like he did something spectacular, even after decision wins.

I thought the Lytle/Davis was gonna be another P.Kelly/P.Taylor, that was an action packed fight. I think Lytle was thinking the same thing.

 

[stonemonkey55]

Shogun/Liddell will be interesting, which fighter has fallen further?

Coleman looked like a vin Diesel dinosaur! LOL

 

[vtac]

This is now The Official FC UFC Thread.

Agree 93 was a little disappointing, pretty much impossible to follow up 92 though.

Thought Horn was in big trouble early, didn't expect him to turn the tables like that... Palhares is a BJJ beast. Coleman looked alright for a 44 year old who hasn't fought in 3+ years. One wonders what would have happened vs Lesnar.

Main event wasn't as exciting as it could have been. Shame Franklin didn't get more of a chance to use his great striking and conditioning... poor guy got his head split again too. Gotta give Hendo credit for executing a good gameplan I guess. That headbutt plus the eye gouge could make a case for a point deduction... accidental but... I dunno, my money was on Franklin. :/

Really looking forward to St-Pierre vs. Penn 2. Both great fighters but I'm a huge GSP fan. Machida vs Thiago Silva should be good too, I find Machida's elusive style so enjoyable to watch. Son of a Karate master.

 

[jklasd]

The penn GSP fight will be an insane fight without a doubt. i can see either one winning by anything, cept gsp by sub, i dont think penn would get submitted. the striking between the two is rather interesting. penn has the natural power, throws very little leg kicks, and probably even less unless he wants GSP to take him down, and hes just a insane guy whos hard to knock out. GSP has the cleaner, more mauy thai karate style striking, hes more explosive and quicker. i like them both, and this is one of those fights where i be happy with whoever wins. im really interested to see how alves will do against the winner, that guy is just a beast.
this silva vs machida fight is gonna be a good one. be interesting to see what the UFC does with the winner and how many more bout each would have to win for a title shot.
dennis kang was sloppy with his take downs all night, blecther could have got him a couple times with a guillotine(sp?). shogun has become a joke of his fomer self, so im gonna have to start thinking he was on something in japan as well. coleman showed alot of heart, he keep fighting even after being gassed insanely bad. i also like that dan won his fight, even though i like rich, because rich would have been screwed pretty bad if he won. hed have to fight bisping at 185? if he wins, bisping is no longer a contender, and rich couldn't keep fighting anyway. if he lost, it could have hurt him bad to beat a guy like hendo and then lose to a guy like bisping. nothing against bisping, but hendo is a harder challange due to his superior wrestling and knock out power then almost anyone in the LHW-MW division. lytle and davis both have crazy hands and crazy chins. i wanted more exchanges, but that fight was really good none the less.

 

[vtac]

^ Nice analysis.

I heard that Dana White said if GSP beats Penn and Alves he fights Anderson Silva. Confirm deny?

 

[jklasd]

he said its a possibility. i personally dont like the chances for GSP against silva, but who knows.

 

[jklasd]

i also think alves is being way underestimated by people. koscheck could NOT take him down and with his strenght and mauy thai, i can truly see this guy being able to beat GSP or penn.

 

[vtac]

i personally dont like the chances for GSP against silva, but who knows.

I don't like anyone's chances against the Spider. That's definitely a scary proposition.

Then again, Lutter and Hendo both did some damage once they got on top of him, and GSP has the takedowns and GnP as we've seen in his last fights. Not saying I'd put money on him, but anything can happen. Just ask Matt Sera.

I need to catch up on some Thiago Alves, didn't know he beat Hughes and Kos.

I can say for certain that vaping makes MMA more intense to watch. For me at least.

 

[jklasd]

I don't like anyone's chances against the Spider. That's definitely a scary proposition.

Then again, Lutter and Hendo both did some damage once they got on top of him, and GSP has the takedowns and GnP as we've seen in his last fights. Not saying I'd put money on him, but anything can happen. Just ask Matt Sera.

that dan henderson fight should be a warning to all fucking fights from the spider. the warning is thus: you kick my ass for a round and im gonna to fucking kill you the next. spider was just insane that second round, hes like fuck this bitch, im choking him out lol. as for the lutter fight, i believe he mounted anderson twice if im not mistaken, but while in the mount had nothing. let not forget he is also a BJJ, but not the same BJJ as umm i unno, rousimar palhares(sp?). mounted anderson isn't something like jeremy horn mounting RP. other than that, i felt anderson had lutter the whole time and was just waiting for lutter to over commit to something. those elbows were vicisious though while in the triangle.
the only way i see GSP winning is to imploy the same gameplan he did against serra, up down up down up down. strike for a bit, dont get caught, take down, GnP for a bit, get up, etc. anderson striking is too good to stay on the feet for too long, and his BJJ skills are good, and while i think GSP is good enough with his BJJ, i think the long limbs of anderson could make GSP get caught

I need to catch up on some Thiago Alves, didn't know he beat Hughes and Kos.

IMHO, you will be looking at the future welterweight champion of the world. the kos fight was good, kos did really good on short notice, but could not take him down. huges never even got close to a takedown. alves is just to big and to solid with his mauy thai and takedown defence. he walks around at like 200-210 i believe he said. thats a big fucking welterweight. im not really positive for this gound game, but i believe his camp is really solid(forget the name of it) and is a good camp to learn the ground, which is where he got the takedown defence.

I can say for certain that vaping makes MMA more intense to watch. For me at least.

hahaha, thats the only way i watch MMA i focus alot more and see stuff that the people do i normally wouldn't.
i know this is the UFC thread and all, but what are the thoughts on fedor vs arlovski?

 

[stonemonkey55]

Vtac - You are the man, I thought this thread was gonna die! Maybe we can change the title from "UFC" to MMA so we can talk about Affliction, Dreams, Heroes, etc etc

I for one am REALLY looking forward to AA versus Fedor. I think if anyone has a good chance against Fedor it would be AA. His attack has looked quite diverse as of late and his straight punches and speed might be able to make a dent in Fedor's jaw. The X factor is that Fedor lost his first Sambo match in years and either he's gonna come out in beastmode, or the loss is gonna F with his mind. Either way, this has the making of a great fight!

Speaking of Alves, that dude is a beast. I can't believe how small Kos looked next to him. He had a great 08, Karo, Hughes, and Kos all went down to him. I think that Alves shoulda gotten fighter of the year instead of Rashad. Karo, Hughes, Kos > Liddell, Griffin

Speaking of AKA, I have a fight tentatively scheduled for March 20th against someone from AKA. It's going to be Muay Thai rules, I can't grapple with the way my back feels right now, but I'm always down for some standup!

 

[eLiguL]

Vtac - You are the man, I thought this thread was gonna die! Maybe we can change the title from "UFC" to MMA so we can talk about Affliction, Dreams, Heroes, etc etc

I for one am REALLY looking forward to AA versus Fedor. I think if anyone has a good chance against Fedor it would be AA. His attack has looked quite diverse as of late and his straight punches and speed might be able to make a dent in Fedor's jaw. The X factor is that Fedor lost his first Sambo match in years and either he's gonna come out in beastmode, or the loss is gonna F with his mind. Either way, this has the making of a great fight!

Speaking of Alves, that dude is a beast. I can't believe how small Kos looked next to him. He had a great 08, Karo, Hughes, and Kos all went down to him. I think that Alves shoulda gotten fighter of the year instead of Rashad. Karo, Hughes, Kos > Liddell, Griffin

Speaking of AKA, I have a fight tentatively scheduled for March 20th against someone from AKA. It's going to be Muay Thai rules, I can't grapple with the way my back feels right now, but I'm always down for some standup!

Good luck on your upcoming bout. Do you know Swick, Kos or Fitch personally?

I have to respectfully disagree with your take on the AA vs. Fedor fight. AA has never been known for his ground game and Fedor is a beast on the ground. I think that is where this fight will end.

Alves did have a very good year, we saw him grow leaps and bounds. However, Evans did capture a title so I can see why they gave it to him.

 

[stonemonkey55]

Good luck on your upcoming bout. Do you know Swick, Kos or Fitch personally?

I have to respectfully disagree with your take on the AA vs. Fedor fight. AA has never been known for his ground game and Fedor is a beast on the ground. I think that is where this fight will end.

Alves did have a very good year, we saw him grow leaps and bounds. However, Evans did capture a title so I can see why they gave it to him.

I do not know any of them personally but I used to train at AKA when it was a kickboxing gym. I knew early UFC guys like Bryan Johnston, me and about 5 other people in the world LOL

I wasn't saying that I think AA is going to beat Fedor, but I think AA has the skill set to give him as much trouble as anyone else has so far. I think folks forget that AA used to be a Sambo champ and his ground game used to be his strength. Now that he's working with Freddie Roach, AA wants to test his luck in the boxing ring as well. That leglock he got Timmy in a few years back was sweet, more folks need to learn/defend leglocks, I love that part of the game. Aoki is sikwitit!

I'm not gonna knock Evans, I think he def deserves to be in the running but I think Alves body of work is still more extensive. If we were to stick with winning a title as one of the criterias, then I think that Mir's record (I hate the guy) in 08 should have had him in the running, he beat Lesnar the current champ and then Nog. I'm not crying that Evans got it, I just think that Alves deserved it more, Karo, Hughes, and Kos are three guys that I wouldn't expect anyone in the WW division to be able to run through the same way Alves did.

 

[eLiguL]

Many good points and I agree with almost all of them. Aoki is definitely a beast with submissions and the leg lock AA got on Timmay(HAHA) was sweet, I liked how he posed after he won too.

Mir's title is an interim title and to be honest I give more weight to Brocks title (he beat Randy who never lost his belt). We also have to add into the equation that Evan's is still undefeated. I can definitely see a case for T.Alves as fighter of the year but it just seems like Evan's has a few more feathers in his cap.

 

[stonemonkey55]

I guess my main beef with Evans getting it is that he KO'd Chuck who I think is well past his prime. I guess you can make the arguement that Hughes was passed him prime when Alves beat him. I guess why I pull for Alves so much is because I love his fighting style. Evans is an awesome fighter, and as u pointed out, undefeated. That is huge in MMA and he's been fighting top guys that the UFC has thrown at him What I don't like is his fighting style, while effective, it is boring. He never really dominates fights (although he has a few highlight reel KO's) and if you check Fightmetric, his composite score is amongst the lowest for anyone with a winning record. Not saying that Fightmetric is the end all, be all but I think the way they break down fights statisically, guys like GSP, Spider Silva, and Alves have extremely high scores due to high % of strikes, takedowns, submission attempts, whereas Evans ranks pathetically low. At the end of the day, he gets the "W" so that trumps all things, but I just don't find his style pleasing to watch.

Alves/GSP in my eyes is almost better than BJ/GSP. I just have a feeling GSP can smother Penn for 5 rounds because Penn will have to use so much energy to stuff takedowns that he will eventually gas and GSP will dominate positionally. Alves takedown def and size will help neutralize this and I'd like to see GSP in there with a striker as dynamic as himself!

 

[eLiguL]

Ya I was never a fan of Evan's either but I have to admit he is winning me over as of late. It would be interesting to see a champ that reaches his peak while defending his belt. I can honestly say I never thought he would be the champ, who knows how else he is going to shock the world.

Ive never heard of Fightmetric's ill have to check that out. Speaking of good MMA websites, MMAPlayground.com has a fantasy betting game that is free and open to the public. They give out cash rewards at the end of every season (1st $150USD). We should start a FC fight camp on there, HAHA.

I definitely am looking forward to GSP v Alves, that is going to be a bang fest.

 

[jklasd]

i have to agree, i dislike evans, but you can deny the guy has talent. i just hate his cockiness. cant wait for hm to fall off his perch, and hopefully it will equal a KO like the evans lidell knockout. when rampage gets back to the title picture, hes gonna fucking kill evans. i hate the jardine vs rampage fight, rampage just beat wandy who beat jardine who beat vera? rampage needs someone harder to face, but they were kinda SOL with machida and thiago silva fighting each other. hopefully jardine doesn't get lucky and loses. i dont like jardine at all if you couldn't tell .

I definitely am looking forward to GSP v Alves, that is going to be a bang fest.

too early to even get my hopes up for that, penn is never to be counted out. i hope GSP wins cuz i think penn would just get killed by alves, GSP has a better chance, but i really really want to see florian vs penn. kenflo is so good right now.
sorry to completely switch to someone else, but how about mir's performance against NOG? he looked amazing.

 

[stonemonkey55]

I think the reasoning behind the Jardine/Rampage fight is the fact that Jardine beat Griffin, and Griffin beat Page. That's the only thing I can think of, I think this could be a good scrap. Jardine has a bit of a glass jaw but this guy can fight, he ain't pretty when he does it, but any one out of Greg Jackson's camp is legit in my book. I ain't no Jardine fanboy tho!

I'm not counting out Penn, I want Penn to win, but if I go with my brain, and not my heart, then I see GSP winning. I don't think skill set will be the defining factor, I think it's cardio and size and I think GSP beats Penn in those two areas. If it were a 1 round or 3 round fight, I would take Penn all night. With 5 rounds, I think GSP can do the good ole lay n pray on Penn.

I will admit that Mir looked fantastic against nog, but so did Timmay til he got caught. I am a Nog fanboy but I think he's seen his better days a loooooong time ago. I mean heath herring almost beat him for christs sake! I am actually really juiced to watch lesnar/mir again. Mir kinda rubbed me the wrong way the way he was presented on TUF but i am also congnizent that the tv editors could edit people to look any way that they wanted. Nog was a dream coach IMO, if he can't fight anymore I'd like to see him coach more, his team basically swept the finale but Mir abused him in every facet of the game

 

[jklasd]

i think jardine isn't that good of a fighter. he has good power in his hand and good kicks, other than that, he isn't good, IMHO.
i agree that GSP has better cardio and size, but i just cant see GSP winning, nor can i see penn winning, its an interesting battle that i cant wait to watch

I will admit that Mir looked fantastic against nog, but so did Timmay til he got caught.

yes, but thats the whole point, mir didn't get caught, he dominated him the whole fight, as does everyone. but mir didn't lol. im insanely interested in mir and lesner again, lesner is going to be so much more calm.

 

[stonemonkey55]

Lesnar but double hammer fist!! lol, Lesnar really is a beast, a match between him and Shane Carwin would be fun to watch.

UFC is in talks about bringing in Alistair Overeem. I was listening to a MMA radio show and the host basically said "The UFC heavyweight division isn't that bad, they don't need to bring in Overeem." Dude, that guy should've lost his job right then and there, the UFC heavyweight division has 4-5 names, that is it....

I think jardine's victory over Vera showed at the very least, he is a gatekeeper. Asides from his flash KO's he's done extremely well. Maybe this is my boy from NM influence on me, he loves the Dean of (un)mean

 

[jklasd]

i agree hes a gate keeper with knockout power, thats a good assessment of him.
yea the ufc HW division is weak. i love afflictions though, great bunch of guys.
carwin and lesner would be awesome. brocks hards are 4XL but they needed 5XL for carwin.

 

[djelimon]

i know this is the UFC thread and all, but what are the thoughts on fedor vs arlovski?

Haven't seen arlovski in a while, but one thing I've seen in Fedor that I haven't seen much in the others is integration. He will use strikes to set up grappling moves and vice versa.

Most fighters still work under the separate ranges theory.

There's some dirty boxing a la Couture, Overeem has worked some knees into his ground game, and randleman did use a shoot to set up an uppercut, but I haven't seen anyone in MMA take integration to the level Fedor has - he does things like this all the time.

But I stopped watching MMA consistently about a year and a half ago. YMMV.

 

[jklasd]

andrei never really focuses on his ground, only ways to scramble and get back standing. fedor will have a huge advantage on the ground. its gonna be a good fight thats all i know.

 

[jklasd]

no spoilers for at least 2 days people.

 

[stonemonkey55]

Oh man, talk about highlight reel KO's, Fedor smashed AA in the face as AA was delivering the final blow. These two NEED to rematch again, it was 3 minutes of all AA til the downfall. I guess that's why they call him the Last Emperor, Fedor rules even when he is losing. Fedor claims that he saw the knee from a mile away and thru the perfect counter....pretty sweet for a heavyweight fight.

Lindland has a glass jaw

Faber looked awesome against Jens, love body shots, more people should do em

Cerrone/Varner - WHAT A BATTLE, Cerrone is a cyborg!