the Michael Brown thread

[2clicker]

Don't get me wrong, we are not that far apart in our way of thinking. It's the "Almost no chance" part that I am having trouble with. IMO, based on what I have seen black people in the US have a much better chance than many minorities around the globe.

I have been to places like Haiti and Cuba and I have seen what "Almost no chance" looks like. And I don't want to offend anyone but it doesn't look like Ferguson Missouri.

with all due respect... youve never been to ferguson or any of the inner city areas of STL have you?

its very much a "not much chance" situation just like it is in areas all over this country. these are my neighbors. i know them. i am friends with them. i see it every day.

products of their environment. of which the man created.

 

[Gonzo]

with all due respect... youve never been to ferguson or any of the inner city areas of STL have you?

its very much a "not much chance" situation just like it is in areas all over this country. these are my neighbors. i know them. i am friends with them. i see it every day.

products of their environment. of which the man created.

As I said, we can agree to disagree. But to answer your question, I have not been to Ferguson. I have lived in New Orleans, Oakland, and Miami though, and have been to many rough parts of the country.

I stick with my assessment that if you think those areas have it bad and that is what "Almost no chance" looks like, I would invite you to travel with me some time.

 

[lwien]

I stick with my assessment that if you think those areas have it bad and that is what "Almost no chance" looks like, I would invite you to travel with me some time.

Reminds me of the time when I was discharged from the Air Force back in 1970 after spending a year and a half in Pakistan. When I came home and then listened to people here who complained about one thing or another, my only thought was, "You have no fucking idea."

 

[Madcap79]

Not quite understanding the question. The standard of living is much higher in this country, as it should be.

My example was to point out is that public education and government assistance is much better in this country so the excuses I hear a lot of the time don't hold as much water IMO. This is just based on how hard I have seen some people have it yet they worked hard and were able to rise above.

I guess it's all relative to what we each have experienced

Gotcha. I just misunderstood.

 

[2clicker]

the public schools in the areas affected here in STL or horrible. when you have no dad and all the males in your life are husslin and making money... and they give you a sense of family... its a no chance situation. there is almost no chance you wont do the same.

im not saying they have no chance at life. im saying that if that is what you grow up around and thats all you know... your likely going to be doing the same shit.

products of their environment.

comparing this type of situation to those of other countires doesnt equate IMO as these are different situations altogether. nobody has this shit going on except the US.

so really we are talking about different "no chance" situations. cant be compared IMO.

 

[Gonzo]

the public schools in the areas affected here in STL or horrible. when you have no dad and all the males in your life are husslin and making money... and they give you a sense of family... its a no chance situation. there is almost no chance you wont do the same.

im not saying they have no chance at life. im saying that if that is what you grow up around and thats all you know... your likely going to be doing the same shit.

products of their environment.

comparing this type of situation to those of other countires doesnt equate IMO as these are different situations altogether. nobody has this shit going on except the US.

so really we are talking about different "no chance" situations. cant be compared IMO.

Then I guess the real problem is that "All the males" are husslin and making money. Sounds very similar to the Caribbean to me. The government can't raise people's children for them neither force people to make smart decisions.

I can promise you my public school in the ghetto in the Caribbean was no better. I have heard all the excuses before.

*EDIT*

I do feel however that most governments can do more to change the poverty cycle. But to do this people have to show up and vote for officials who will make these changes. When only 1/3 of the voting population shows up to elections it can be difficult.

*Edit*
Also, why don't they have a dad? How is that the man's fault?

 

[RUDE BOY]

kids walk in the street all the time. i see white kids do it all the time and they dont get shot for it. and what law were they breaking again...? jay walking?

See we come from different worlds you and I, Yes maybe it was something as simple as jay walking to start with. Cops here will stop and tell you to get fucking out of the road if your walking in the middle of a Traffic lane I don't care what color you are. They will then stop and maybe take you aside to see why your walking in the road. It's a good way to call police attention to your self But i'm getting the vibe maybe you come from some where that people don't think the same way as where I live where you walk on sidewalks when they're there and try to avoid confrontation with police if you can.

 

[Caligula]

the public schools in the areas affected here in STL or horrible. when you have no dad and all the males in your life are husslin and making money... and they give you a sense of family... its a no chance situation. there is almost no chance you wont do the same.

nobody has this shit going on except the US.

Completely false.

Let me introduce you to where part of my family originally came from.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Favela

Now ask me where I'd rather grow up.

 

[MinnBobber]

Completely false.

Let me introduce you to where part of my family originally came from.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Favela

Now ask me where I'd rather grow up.

....................................................................
X2. Are poor areas in the US bad? Yes.
Are these areas even in the same league as poor elsewhere in the world? No way.
I worked with poor families in the US for 35 years and it was amazing how many had
two TVs and a much much better phone than I had....

 

[Melting Pot]

 

[CarolKing]

Darren Wilson said, "he felt like a 5 yr old holding onto Hulk Hogan." I hadn't paid attention to how big Darren Wilson was? I though maybe he was under 6 ft tall. I know Michael Brown was 6ft 5 inches. Darren Wilson is 6ft 4 inches, not short in the least. True Michael Brown was heavier. Something just doesn't smell right with this statement?

EDIt
I had called Darren Wilson - Dennis Wilson. I fixed it above.

 

[lwien]

Dennis Wilson said, "he felt like a 5 yr old holding onto Hulk Hogan." I hadn't paid attention to how big Dennis Wilson was? I though maybe he was under 6 ft tall. I know Michael Brown was 6ft 5 inches. Dennis Wilson is 6ft 4 inches, not short in the least. True Michael Brown was heavier. Something just doesn't smell right with this statement?

Nor does his statements jell with his actual injuries, if you could even call them injuries. Hell, I was more beat up than that playing football in high school and he stated that due to his injuries, he was in fear that one more blow would kill him. WTF???

 

[Melting Pot]

I'm sure we all understand the term freeze. get down on the ground put your hands behind your head if he would have complied I'm sure he would be here to speak His peace.So WTF.???

 

[lwien]

I'm sure we all understand the term freeze. get down on the ground put your hands behind your head if he would have complied I'm sure he would be here to speak His peace.So WTF.???

That too. The whole thing is one major clusterfuck.

 

[MinnBobber]

Dennis Wilson said, "he felt like a 5 yr old holding onto Hulk Hogan." I hadn't paid attention to how big Dennis Wilson was? I though maybe he was under 6 ft tall. I know Michael Brown was 6ft 5 inches. Dennis Wilson is 6ft 4 inches, not short in the least. True Michael Brown was heavier. Something just doesn't smell right with this statement?

..............................................................................................................
I try to recreate the scene in my head and his statement makes perfect sense to me.
M Brown ( 6' 4" and 292 lbs) is coming thru the window at you. He's punching you in the face.
Your police cruiser has all that communications gear in the center so no way to slide over to
the passenger side and maybe you are still seatbelted in.

Trying to fight back from underneath, cramped, in a trapped position with no leverage or room to
mount any kind of effective physical defense---one would feel like a 5 year old holding onto Hulk
Hogan. Unfortunately for M Brown, that leaves one method to defend--his gun.

The evidence seems to support Wilson's story as Brown's blood was found inside the car as was his DNA on the gun. Wilson said Brown grabbed his gun. That might have been where Brown was shot 4 times in the right arm, during the struggle with the gun.

 

[howie105]

The court system at the current level has had its say so about the only options open is going up the legal food chain or civil disobedience. Sadly too many people are playing this whole mess as a political opportunity and not as a question of justice or law. Like frank said "It don't matter if your black or white because he is out for blood tonight. "

 

[2clicker]

Completely false.

Let me introduce you to where part of my family originally came from.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Favela

Now ask me where I'd rather grow up.

i think im being misunderstood. i wasnt saying that other countries dont have poverty problems. no doubt poverty is much worse in many areas of the world compared to the US. my point was that nobody else has a system in which gangs are this prevelent due to lack of family structure. i could be wrong. im no expert. regardless even if other countries do have the same shit going that doesnt make it ok or less of a problem here.

See we come from different worlds you and I, Yes maybe it was something as simple as jay walking to start with. Cops here will stop and tell you to get fucking out of the road if your walking in the middle of a Traffic lane I don't care what color you are. They will then stop and maybe take you aside to see why your walking in the road. It's a good way to call police attention to your self But i'm getting the vibe maybe you come from some where that people don't think the same way as where I live where you walk on sidewalks when they're there and try to avoid confrontation with police if you can.

im sorry but a kid simply walking in a street does not give a cop the right to scream at him. whats wrong with "hey fellas you cant be in the street"...? and again i have been asked personally to get out of the street by police and i wasnt treated like that. fact is that cops feel they need to intimidate and instill fear in the public. and its wrong. and im still waiting to hear what MB was being arrested for. he wasnt breaking any laws. he screamed at them like a dick because they were black. no doubt in my mind. and that is wrong.

hilarious. these riots are the result of social inequality and poor poeple getting shit they cant normally afford. aka "getting over" because the system gets over on them on the daily. like Lwien said earlier... unless you have lived theough this oppression yourself you cant understand this and shouldnt judge. i dont understand it, but i acknoweledge it.

now lets get to why white people riot...? white people riot when their teams win championships. san fransisco, seattle, and many other examples. so what is worse?

I'm sure we all understand the term freeze. get down on the ground put your hands behind your head if he would have complied I'm sure he would be here to speak His peace.So WTF.???

this is all speculation. there are conflicting reports of what was said and what happened. i heard that MB did indeed have his hands up saying dont shoot. and i could add that DW could have used a non lethal way of reatraining MB. DW admits himself that he opted not to wear a tazer because they are uncomfortable. so WTF?

all of this shit could be resolved with cameras. lets mandate cams on cops chests, guns, and vehicles. this would be an open and shut case.

 

[gangababa]

"The evidence seems to support Wilson's story"

The evidence has never been tested in a court of law under the judicial rules of a fair trial with both sides able to present and refute claimed evidence. Nor is it likely that ALL evidence was presented.

The Saint Louis prosecutor was acting as a defense lawyer. If he did not think there was cause for indictment, he should have done his job as a proclaimed professional and refused to indict.
And he is the one who told Governor Nixon to 'man up'.

Darren Wilson, professional that he is, says he has a clear conscience and would kill Michael Brown again.

Here is a report on the unprofessional police investigation.

The DA was very unprofessional at his press conference announcing the decision.
"Why was the prosecutor, Robert McCulloch, whose very title implies his task before a grand jury, seemingly so pleased with the result? Throughout his press conference, he went out of his way to chastise the media and mock discrepancies among the witnesses to Brown’s shooting. This was unprofessional at the very minimum, and did nothing to calm tensions or create the impression of a fair process."

 

[RUDE BOY]

... and im still waiting to hear what MB was being arrested for.

Actually 2clicker my whole point was Michael Brown wasn't being arrested, at first he was only being told to get out of the street and had to at the very least mouth off back at the armed cop who was doing the telling.

I never said what happened after that was right.

But like you've said I wasn't there so I don't really know shit about what happened.

 

[Caligula]

i think im being misunderstood. i wasnt saying that other countries dont have poverty problems. no doubt poverty is much worse in many areas of the world compared to the US. my point was that nobody else has a system in which gangs are this prevelent due to lack of family structure.

No misunderstanding here. Care to guess where all the "adult" males go if they aren't outright killed before puberty?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/world/specials/favelas/handholding.htm

 

[MinnBobber]

No misunderstanding here. Care to guess where all the "adult" males go if they aren't outright killed before puberty?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/world/specials/favelas/handholding.htm

Hi,
is there a better link as this just goes to main page.
I searched for "handholding" and got 0
thanks

 

[Caligula]

Just Google "Favelas + gangs". It'll be there along with a lot of other information you probably never wanted to know.

The cliffs notes is that a vast number of males growing up there are either killed due to gang violence, or join drug gangs themselves (after which they are typically killed off eventually anyway), leaving impoverished single famlies to repeat the cycle, ad nauseum. Oh and the little girls? I dont even want to go there.

 

[2clicker]

Just Google "Favelas + gangs". It'll be there along with a lot of other information you probably never wanted to know.

The cliffs notes is that a vast number of males growing up there are either killed due to gang violence, or join drug gangs themselves (after which they are typically killed off eventually anyway), leaving impoverished single famlies to repeat the cycle, ad nauseum. Oh and the little girls? I dont even want to go there.

and regardless of all of that... it STILL doesnt mean that there isnt a "no chance" type problem here or that its less important than other countries. its here. it exists. you can deny it if you like.

 

[randybishop]

 

[2clicker]

at least these riots are fueled by real issues

enjoy!
https://storify.com/betakateenin/white-people-riots