The Magic-Flight Box
- Thread starter magicflight
- Start date
fubar
Ancient and opiniated inhaler
magicflight said:
I love the MFLB and I really appreciate all the thought going in to these threads. Having said that, I'm an academic, so let's just take this claim and unpack it a little. Of course, direct energy costs are interesting, but there are some indirect but real energy costs that have to be sunk before you can fire up the MFLB.
Specifically, to really make the claim that X is the most efficient, don't we also need to think about all the energy costs associated with each of the systems being compared? EG: manufacturing, recharging and eventually safely disposing of the battery?
Those 'hidden' energy costs - from mining the ore and isolating the nickel, magnesium, plastic and so on, tp packaging and distributing a rechargable battery (amortized over perhaps a few hundred discharge cycles) plus the energy costs of recharging the battery are likely to tip the balance a little. Of course the same applies to butane and domestic AC power supplies to be fair. A similar problem arises in evaluating "energy efficient" electric motor vehicles - from an environmental and energy perspective, it's really far more complex (and less compelling) than the manufacturers might have you believe.
Sunlight + a fresnel lens is probably the lowest energy cost source of heat for vapor. Sadly, most of my vaping is just after sunset - so I'll probably stick with the MFLB for now - but not because I believe it's the most energy efficient way to get ripped.
upriver
combustion-free
I hope anyone choosing a vaporizer based solely on lowest energy inputs is also only using it to vaporize outdoor-grown herbs.
I also want to give thanks for the vaporpedia. I have sent it to a few folks who would never look at a website with this name nor wade through a single page of this kind of discussion, but they are still MFLBers and have found it very useful info!
I also want to give thanks for the vaporpedia. I have sent it to a few folks who would never look at a website with this name nor wade through a single page of this kind of discussion, but they are still MFLBers and have found it very useful info!
fubar said:
No, absolutely not.
This is an unreasonable extension of the argument made simply to find a boundary where the original premise can be drawn into question. The discussion was not whether the MFLB is the most energy efficient vaporizing device that could be built, it was which device used the least power from cold start to vaporization.
fubar
Ancient and opiniated inhaler
pakalolo said:
Sorry, I must have missed exactly where that was set as the "discussion" - it's a really long thread.
Fine - I'm sure you're not talking about watts used to generate vape to try to convince people that particular and tiny part of the total energy budget is a serious consideration when we're all thinking about how we should make use of the limited resources of our fragile planet?
I do like and use the MFLB when it fits my needs - but it's arguably an environmentally irresponsible thing to do given what we know about the full lifetime energy costs of NiMH rechargable batteries.
fubar
Ancient and opiniated inhaler
On the company web site FAQ, they write:
Sounds like physics to me. Good. I like physics.
As far as I can tell, those two metal rails that support the trench edge are live when the battery is pressed in, so in the case of the MFLB, it appears that a very high current flow through the mesh screen is from a physics point of view, the only significant source of heat - or have I missed something important ?
If my description above is correct, then I assume by "infra-red" they just mean what most people think of as (radiant) heat from the hot mesh - herbs in physical contact with the mesh will be heated by direct thermal conduction, but the rest only by heated circulating air (convection) and (line of sight) infra red radiation.
Whew.
Is there any other source of 'infra red' hidden away in there? We're not counting that tiny red light bulb (I read somewhere it's incandescent, not LED, right) ?
Sounds like physics to me. Good. I like physics.
As far as I can tell, those two metal rails that support the trench edge are live when the battery is pressed in, so in the case of the MFLB, it appears that a very high current flow through the mesh screen is from a physics point of view, the only significant source of heat - or have I missed something important ?
If my description above is correct, then I assume by "infra-red" they just mean what most people think of as (radiant) heat from the hot mesh - herbs in physical contact with the mesh will be heated by direct thermal conduction, but the rest only by heated circulating air (convection) and (line of sight) infra red radiation.
Whew.
Is there any other source of 'infra red' hidden away in there? We're not counting that tiny red light bulb (I read somewhere it's incandescent, not LED, right) ?
fubar said:
You obviously didn't miss anything. You were challenging a point made in a post on the previous page, which was about which device most efficiently vaporized. That was clearly the point under discussion, not the overall environmental impact.
Now you're attacking a straw man: no one claimed that using the MFLB has a lesser environmental impact on the planet than any other vaporizer. Of course using it is arguably environmentally irresponsible. It's arguably environmentally irresponsible to keep breathing.
fubar
Ancient and opiniated inhaler
As far as I can tell, there is no mechanical or electronic thermostat involved in control of current flowing through the MFLB heating mesh when in battery mode. If I'm right, that means the MFLB depends entirely upon the user to generate the right combination of air flow through the herb at the right time in the heating cycle for the right stage of battery discharge. Amazing to think that we can do all that while getting totally whacked 
Interestingly, the rheostat on the power supply may control the current and thus the heat generated by the mesh? Can anyone with the power supply confirm that it makes the device easier to control in terms of charring from overheating?
With care and skill, you can coax good performance from the MFLB just like you possibly can from other non-thermostatically controlled vaporizers, but in my perhaps careless and unskilled experience, herbs end up charred far more easily than with (say) a digital convection vaporizer set to stop heating at 190C or so. I'm happy using the MFLB when I need to, but it's definitely much easier for me to get consistent vapour friendly thermal performance from a heat source with a thermostat.
Interestingly, the rheostat on the power supply may control the current and thus the heat generated by the mesh? Can anyone with the power supply confirm that it makes the device easier to control in terms of charring from overheating?
With care and skill, you can coax good performance from the MFLB just like you possibly can from other non-thermostatically controlled vaporizers, but in my perhaps careless and unskilled experience, herbs end up charred far more easily than with (say) a digital convection vaporizer set to stop heating at 190C or so. I'm happy using the MFLB when I need to, but it's definitely much easier for me to get consistent vapour friendly thermal performance from a heat source with a thermostat.
fubar said:As far as I can tell, there is no mechanical or electronic thermostat involved in control of current flowing through the MLFB heating mesh when in battery mode. If I'm right, that means the MFLB depends entirely upon the user to generate the right combination of air flow through the herb at the right time in the heating cycle for the right stage of battery discharge. Amazing to think that we can do all that while getting totally whacked
Interestingly, the rheostat on the power supply may control the current and thus the heat generated by the mesh? Can anyone with the power supply confirm that it makes the device easier to control in terms of charring from overheating?
With care and skill, you can coax good performance from the MFLB just like you possibly can from other non-thermostatically controlled vaporizers, but in my perhaps careless and unskilled experience, herbs end up charred far more easily than with (say) a digital convection vaporizer set to stop heating at 190C or so. I'm happy using the MFLB when I need to, but it's definitely much easier for me to get consistent vapour friendly thermal performance from a heat source with a thermostat.
This is 100% correct. You're right about the PA and the control it gives you.
I'm getting the distinct impression that you haven't read the Vaporpedia entry. See the link in my sig. There's a lot of good stuff there about how to get the most from your LB, mostly culled from this looooong thread which I really can't blame anyone for not reading all the way through a long and convoluted sentence I know.
fubar
Ancient and opiniated inhaler
pakalolo said:
I've scanned it a few times - wouldn't have shelled out that much money otherwise...
I didn't see anything very specific about the simple mesh/current physics or lack of a thermostat so presumed I was figuring things out for myself. Glad to know it's all there.
fubar said:pakalolo said:
I've scanned it a few times - wouldn't have shelled out that much money otherwise...
I didn't see anything very specific about the simple mesh/current physics or lack of a thermostat so presumed I was figuring things out for myself. Glad to know it's all there.
My apologies for reaching a bad conclusion then. You do seem to be figuring stuff out for yourself, correctly as I've said. I mentioned it because some of your deductions are explained in the Vaporpedia entry. For example, controlling temperature with draw strength is described in detail, along with a few techniques. It doesn't specifically say the LB doesn't have a thermostat, but it does describe what goes into making a box and there's no mention of thermostats or any other electronics. The simplicity and elegance of the design is, to me at least, the most impressive thing about the LB.
fubar said:
Your terms are too vague. I don't know where the line separating energy/ecologically friendly devices from unfriendly ones is drawn. The relative ecological friendliness of various vaporizers might make an interesting thread but we shouldn't let it hijack this one.
Willuminati
Will
Love is the MFLB. Thank you engineering genius is all i can say. To watch as the box evolved from earlier pictures is amazing. I was recently diagnosed with chronic respiratory failure which put an absolute stop to any smoke consumption. When coming off life support the respiratory therapist I had was great, told me vaporizing was the way to go. The reviews of the MFLB made it the one for me hands down. I had a vapor genie given to me before I got this I found it came to close to burning it for me and I will not chance smoke. The customer service at MFLB is by far a huge cut above the rest. I had a faulty battery after one use and I must spread the love by giving a huge shout out to Julie Chiariello she was great had me fixed up in two days thank you guys. If your thinking of buying a MFLB just STOP thinking and get one for your own health be with the ones you love for as long as you can life is short enjoy it.
collegerower
Well-Known Member
Dang, this is making me want to order my PA before the official release... I am trying to keep costs down, and my MZ does everything I want my home vape to do, but the PA sure is tempting....
I will have to think about this one...
I will have to think about this one...
momofthegoons
vapor accessory addict
collegerower, I think you will love it. The cost may go up with production. I love mine and haven't used a battery since I got it.
shizlefonizle
Member
So are all of the recent orders of the PA the V2 beta? I was thinking about picking one up with the improvements before they went into full production.
https://magic-flight.com:4200/buydpab/ar_home
https://magic-flight.com:4200/buydpab/ar_home
Ok, after months of thinking about making this purchase I finally did it. It should be arriving the 19th, just in time for holiday festivities. Please make me feel good about this decision to drop the money.
I already own an Easy Vape, would it be fair for me to expect a better, rather than just more portable, experience from this unit?
I already own an Easy Vape, would it be fair for me to expect a better, rather than just more portable, experience from this unit?
I was sitting right where you were two weeks ago, Easy Vape and all. I dropped my Easy Vape and started using the LB right away. It really is worlds apart. My suggestion would be to order from VapeWorld and get the +Two Extra Batteries deal. You get into a pretty nice rhythm charging up your batteries, and you will always have fresh batteries. I couldn't imagine only having two quite honestly.
LivingInSpin
Active Member
Feel good. It is worth it.
Vapemania-original
New Member
fubar said:
Fubar, how goes it!
I must say, I feel I am familiar with your train of thought.
Yes, the battery heats the 2 wires which heats the mesh which heats the herb!
Amazing!
So where's the infra-red?
You wily old fox!!!
And I thought it was just me who was bewildered by it!!!
My thoughts are these:
there is no infra red!!!!
The light is LED. Has no infrared effect at all. Confirmed by Magic Flight on this thread and 'that other website'.
My view is that Magic Flight are using tongue-in-cheek mumbo jumbo to account for their good fortune.
Some guy designed the MFLB chamber out of common sense,
and found gold.
Selling the product, you can't say it's built on common sense, you have to say it's based on magic, like infra-red.
Magic will justify the $99 price tag more than common sense.
The MFLB is green?
Fuck knows!!!
The toke is good though.
MFLB are good lads. Above board. Simple but professional. IMHO.
Don't worry about Pakalolo.
He said himself he read through 200 pages, at least, of this thread. 200 pages.
Its been lovingly restored and digitally re-mastered on the 'enemy website'.
After all that, it's best not to tell the man to dig the hole back up cos he forgot to plant the seed.
He's tired and holding a spade in his hands.
Good to see you.
You will enjoy. i do.
MG23
Relaxin'
collegerower said:Dang, this is making me want to order my PA before the official release... I am trying to keep costs down, and my MZ does everything I want my home vape to do, but the PA sure is tempting....
I will have to think about this one...
I would order now before the price goes up, the beta you get now is very very close, if not the same as the retail model that will be available soon.
Vapemania-original
New Member
collegerower said:Dang, this is making me want to order my PA before the official release... I am trying to keep costs down, and my MZ does everything I want my home vape to do, but the PA sure is tempting....
I will have to think about this one...
I can understand the excitement!!
I feel the same about getting the PA.
Well, since you have a second vape (MZ), you could wait for all the others to get their PAs and send their reviews. You'll know for sure then if its a good idea!!
Also, if you get the later PAs they will be better. At least, thats what Moore's law says for electronic items for the past 50 years.
Vicki
Herbal Alchemist
Vapemania said:collegerower said:Dang, this is making me want to order my PA before the official release... I am trying to keep costs down, and my MZ does everything I want my home vape to do, but the PA sure is tempting....
I will have to think about this one...
I can understand the excitement!!
I feel the same about getting the PA.
Well, since you have a second vape (MZ), you could wait for all the others to get their PAs and send their reviews. You'll know for sure then if its a good idea!!
Also, if you get the later PAs they will be better. At least, thats what Moore's law says for electronic items for the past 50 years.
I thought electronic items were outdated as soon as you got them? In that case, it wouldn't really matter.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZAAZ7iXN-o