magicflight

Manufacturer
Manufacturer
spooky said:
... a conduction vaporizer ... is inherently inefficient.
... when there is no mechanical stirring to redistribute the heat. Agreed.

While it is true that, in general, convection vaporizers will be more efficient overall than conduction patterns, the performance gap can be narrowed significantly with various techniques and in some cases even dramatically exceeded! The Box performance is much better than any other vaporizer in its class due to the following four factors:

- 1) The Box generates vapor only when needed -- it does not waste any vapor by staying hot between hits or by continuing to cook the load after you have had enough. Loaded material can continue to be cycled over any extended period of time, delivering vapor when you want it without ever having to wait or waste. Conscious user technique with the battery can ensure that there is zero lost vapor every time.

- 2) The Box makes careful use of Infra-red characteristics in its design. While pure conduction designs tend do work very poorly, pure IR vaporizers (although very uncommon and very expensive) tend to be fairly good since they have overall heat distribution characteristics very similar to pure convection designs for smaller loads. The Launch Box is not 'just' a conduction vaporizer -- it is also has significant IR characteristics.

- 3) The Box incorporates several vapor channel flow features to ensure the absolute minimum vapor condensation. Convection vaporizers necessarily need to use significantly more heat energy to operate efficiently -- heat which must be removed from the vapor prior to ingestion. Any surfaces, piping, or water chambers used to cool the vapor are also condensation sites. Condensed vapor is lost vapor and that means that a big pipe overall is less efficient. Any parts that require occasional cleaning also indicate a significant volume of previously lost vapor. Used naively, the Box rarely requires any cleaning since it delivers the vapor directly to you -- without converting some of it into black gunk along the way.

- 4) Since the Box uses only and exactly as much heat energy as is needed for vaporization (the Box is easily one of the worlds most energy-efficient vaporizers), the enclosed chamber can be designed to allow for the simplest and most reliable form of mechanical stirring possible: shaking. By shaking the Box between hits, the previously ground load can be evenly re-mixed to ensure much more even heating. The clear lid also allows for immediate inspection as to determine both the effectiveness of the stirring and the degree of completion. In this way, good user technique can result excellent overall performance and efficiency.

In summary, in-house lab testing has shown the Box vape to be nearly as efficient as the best convection vapes (when used correctly), and noticeably better than most.

Finally, it is important to keep in mind that the Box is optimized for convenience -- it was never intended to be "the worlds most efficient vape". Dollar for dollar, the Box delivers more vapor in more locations more naturally. That is what it is about. What good is a 'super efficient vaporizer' when you don't use it because you don't have some place to plug it in and cannot wait five minutes for it to heat up? Getting fairly good efficiency most of the time is very much better overall (health wise and cost wise) than getting great efficiency only occasionally. For most people, actual practical convenience is much more important in real life than some elusive abstract ideal of "efficiency".

-- Magic-flight

 
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magicflight,

VivaSativa

Well-Known Member
magicflight said:
In regards to technique, these are some questions to think about: is the load ground? (Finely ground loads are definitely best). Are you shaking the Box between hits to stir the material?
The load is very well ground, some of it is almost powdery. And I do shake the Box between hits.
magicflight said:
How even is the browning -- are there still any green bits? (This could indicate unstirred material and/or not ground enough). How brown is it getting before you consider it done? (People who are used to smoking may want to continue into a dark brown rather than a light one to get a somewhat 'heavier' experience).
I'd say about half of it gets brown, the rest gets a darker green color than it originally had. I'm not sure what kind of brown I should be getting, it's quite light, somewhere between green/gray/brown.. Maybe someone could upload a picture of their ground herb before and after vaping? My crappy cell camera won't capture the colors well enough .. :rolleyes:
magicflight said:
In regards to the taste, you may also be getting the 'popcorn' significantly prior to the load being finished due to material that is adhering to the screen and not participating in the general shake and stirring process.
This makes me think, maybe I take too long draws? Maybe as a result just the bottom part of it gets vaped and gives off the popcorn taste? And when I turn it over and shake, maybe on the next vape the popcorn taste overpowers the vapor taste? I'll try taking shorter draws and see if there's any difference.
[EDIT: An hour after vaping with short draws, still same result. Kept vaping until the vapor was harsh and unpleasant.]
magicflight said:
When you dump the bowl, are there dark bits still stuck to the screen? If so, it is best to blow these off (a short sharp puff of breath usually does the trick), or use the provided brush to get these bits out. Some materials are more "sticky" than others and may be somewhat harder to grind and stir properly. With the box lid closed, turn upside down and tap the bottom. Then turn it sideways to see if all of the material is coming clear of the screen.
Yeah some small chunks get stuck to the screen, but I remove them gently with the supplied brush.
magicflight said:
Also, apologies for not answering your questions sooner -- many of us have been 'on tour' a lot these last few weeks and have not always been internet accessible.
No worries, I knew you'll reply sooner or later ;)
 
VivaSativa,

vap999

Well-Known Member
magicflight said:
While it is true that, in general, convection vaporizers will be more efficient overall than conduction patterns, the performance gap can be narrowed significantly with various techniques and in some cases even dramatically exceeded! The Box performance is much better than any other vaporizer in its class due to the following four factors:
-- Magic-flight
magicflight:

You neglected to mention that through the LB's design, besides optimizing infra-red heating, you have apparently tried to attain as much convection as possible. The air flow appears to be rather precisely designed, with air flow above and below the load, and the induced swirling at top (Venturi effect?) apparently inducing some suction or air flow up through the loaded trench(?).

Otherwise, I am finding that very finely powdered herb works best. I dry herb gently over a light bulb for several hours, powder this thoroughly manually and run this through an electric coffer grinder. This comes out a very fine, fluffy powder, which works great in the LB. The herb can cake up (stick together) from the heat, but rigorous shaking or tapping breaks it up. With vaping, the powder loses it fluffiness and I'm left with about 1/3-40% of the volume of powder as when I started. With very fine powder, there are no problems with uneven heating (after shaking).
 
vap999,

rayski

Well-Known Member
vap999 said:
The air flow appears to be rather precisely designed, with air flow above and below the load, and the induced swirling at top (Venturi effect?) apparently inducing some suction or air flow up through the loaded trench(?).
I think the swirling allows the air to pick up more good stuff because it passes over/through the herb several times before it exits the pipe.
 
rayski,

Lo

Combustion free since '09
I can't see the specs or anywhere it says lithium on that energizer one... I'd check further or wait for others to swing by.

I did buy the 15 minute charger which I was surprised to find has a fan in it to keep batteries cool during the charging... It is not quiet but works quick and fast :)

Now if I could just get used to the LB ;) For some reason stuff doesn't taste as good to me in it - kinda reminds me of combustion - think I need to master the learning curve or something.

Good luck with yours!
 
Lo,

jklasd

Well-Known Member
hahahaha opps, i missed that it wasn't nimh. damn.
thanks. ill probably end up order the 15 min one until i order the lacrosse one.
 
jklasd,

Hippie Dickie

The Herbal Cube
Manufacturer
i think the charger fan is to keep the current driver chip in the charger cool -- which is drawing 5 to 10 amps. The li-ion charger i use for the Tesla batteries gets wicked hot toward the end of the 15 minute charge -- no fan. The batteries stay cool.

The 15 minute RadioShack charger i use for my camera batteries has a fan, the nimh batteries just get a little warm.
 
Hippie Dickie,

Sh1zn1t

Well-Known Member
magicflight said:
We did change from the bent tube to the straight -- this was due to popular request. We have not updated the picture on the website as yet -- its on the "To Do" list.
Not a problem, I like the straight one, though not as much as the short one(which I quickly lost :( )

magicflight said:
This sounds like a warranty issue. The performance of the Box should be fairly constant in time, unless the screen has become damaged. The screen is fairly fragile and may become detached if the Box is hard packed or metal tools are used -- this can significantly impair box function. If the screen does not have its original rectangular shape with sharp corners and/or it seems to be loose, please send us a private email with the Box serial number and your physical mailing address for us to send you a replacement.
Now that you mention it, when I got it the screen was slightly detatched in the trench on the battery side. I'll be sure to send you that email when I'm on a computer and not my iPhone.

I also thought you should know that what you are doing for customer service here in the thread was a major factor for me buying your product. I felt safe making my purchase, or a high level of consumer confidence. Very good business, coming from a business major. :p

Also, is the whip hose that's on Blisssville just the type of tubing from home depot? I didn't see it on the site till after I placed my order.
 
Sh1zn1t,

magicflight

Manufacturer
Manufacturer
lo said:
Now if I could just get used to the LB...
The taste is dependent on technique -- to run the Box cooler, try drawing a little more quickly and do not wait. The correct draw rate -- not too fast nor too slow -- is something learned in time. Also, from the time that you put the battery fully in until you begin drawing should be fairly short -- less than 5 seconds. Finally, when you complete the draw, be sure to pull the battery out a bit right away so that the Box does not continue (needlessly) heating. Don't forget to shake -- its helpful to look through the cover to ensure that the stir is actually happening -- sometimes bits stick together and do not mix as much as needed.

-- Magic-flight

 
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magicflight,

magicflight

Manufacturer
Manufacturer
vap999 said:
You neglected to mention that through the LB's design, besides optimizing infra-red heating, you have apparently tried to attain as much convection as possible. The air flow appears to be rather precisely designed, with air flow above and below the load, and the induced swirling at top (Venturi effect?) apparently inducing some suction or air flow up through the loaded trench(?).
It is true that the Box airflow is designed to get various helpful effects. At the time I was writing the previous post, I figured that these more subtle aspects were probably too complex to explain in a post that was already too long. Also, although the airflow details are helpful in several respects, we do not consider the Box to be a true 'convection' vaporizer since these specific details account for less than 50% of the overall Box vaporization process. The mechanics and the IR characteristics are somewhat more important to the overall performance.

vap999 said:
Otherwise, I am finding that very finely powdered herb works best. I dry herb gently over a light bulb for several hours, powder this thoroughly manually and run this through an electric coffer grinder. This comes out a very fine, fluffy powder, which works great in the LB. The herb can cake up (stick together) from the heat, but rigorous shaking or tapping breaks it up. With vaping, the powder loses it fluffiness and I'm left with about 1/3-40% of the volume of powder as when I started. With very fine powder, there are no problems with uneven heating (after shaking).
This is correct and represents truly optimal technique. In fact, this sort of herb treatment is very hard to improve on -- short of using lab tech. I am very glad to see that some of these more subtle points are being observed.

-- Magic-flight

 
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magicflight,

NoSmoke

Well-Known Member
Sh1zn1t said:
magicflight said:
We did change from the bent tube to the straight -- this was due to popular request. We have not updated the picture on the website as yet -- its on the "To Do" list.
Not a problem, I like the straight one, though not as much as the short one(which I quickly lost :( )

magicflight said:
This sounds like a warranty issue. The performance of the Box should be fairly constant in time, unless the screen has become damaged. The screen is fairly fragile and may become detached if the Box is hard packed or metal tools are used -- this can significantly impair box function. If the screen does not have its original rectangular shape with sharp corners and/or it seems to be loose, please send us a private email with the Box serial number and your physical mailing address for us to send you a replacement.
Now that you mention it, when I got it the screen was slightly detatched in the trench on the battery side. I'll be sure to send you that email when I'm on a computer and not my iPhone.

I also thought you should know that what you are doing for customer service here in the thread was a major factor for me buying your product. I felt safe making my purchase, or a high level of consumer confidence. Very good business, coming from a business major. :p

Also, is the whip hose that's on Blisssville just the type of tubing from home depot? I didn't see it on the site till after I placed my order.
I believe the tubing is from VaporBros. I totally agree with you on the customer service from Blissville/MagicFlight, I just wish they would have done something for the "dopes" who got suckered into buying the now "rarely" spoken about Launch Tube, I still feel like it was a very useless purchase of a prototype of the box.
 
NoSmoke,

magicflight

Manufacturer
Manufacturer
Sh1zn1t said:
I like the straight one, though not as much as the short one(which I quickly lost :( )
We can send you an extra short tube. Be sure to mention it in your email (which I am waiting for).

More generally, would people prefer to have multiple short tubes rather than the longer strait one?
We can include three Peg tubes instead of the one long and one short -- but would want to hear from our more established user base what their actual usage patterns seem to prefer. Any opinions or comments on this?

Sh1zn1t said:
I also thought you should know that what you are doing for customer service here in the thread was a major factor for me buying your product. I felt safe making my purchase, or a high level of consumer confidence. Very good business, coming from a business major. :p
Thank you. Honestly, we think that every business should offer that level of support and that it is very foolish to do otherwise (relationships which are not sustainable are also not good for the environment). Ironically, we have many people tell us that we are crazy to do this, yet we feel that it is merely right, and that we will make our own choices and not moralize about it. Especially since we are not the first -- many good companies -- long lasting examples -- have been our inspiration in this way.

Sh1zn1t said:
Also, is the whip hose that's on Blisssville just the type of tubing from home depot?
I don't know the complete H.D. product line, but it is rather unlikely. Most hardware stores offer only clear vinyl tubing and some species of Burma rubber -- we offer only the medical grade pure silicone tubing. While the temperatures involved are usually way too low to create out-gassing from the vinyl, the mere possibility of risk of health effects and the potential for any degree of changed taste means that we cannot (and will not) use (or offer) anything other than pure silicone tubing. We are aware that most desktop vaporizer manufacturers do use vinyl (and that most hookah's use rubber), and they seem to be ok, yet we feel that the guarantee of safety and neutral taste is worth the extra cost (that we pay) for the silicone tubing.

Also, if cost is an issue, we recommend that people treat the tubing as an accessory for the Box -- it is not necessary. As anyone who already has the tubing can tell you, the tubing tends to feel much larger and thus overwhelm the more diminutive size of the Box itself.

Have people who have bought the tubing found that they use that attachment a lot? In peoples experience, what sort of situations make the use of the flexible tubing preferred?

-- Magic-flight
 
magicflight,

chloe

Well-Known Member
I bought the whip but have only used it twice....I thought I'd prefer the whip since I am used to the cannon...but yeah if I'm concerned with the vape temp being too hot, the stems cool it just enough not too be too bothersome...I found the problem with the whip is not the whip but more so to do with me not knowing if I got any vapor...no vapor could be due to dead battery or battery not making proper contact...I have a hard time since the whip cools the vapor enough for me not to know sometimes if I got a hit or not but if I use it natively I know instantly if the battery made a good connection or how fresh the battery is....on the other hand, the whip would come in handy if you are sharing with someone who has no idea how to work the battery....I've handed the box over to friends where they'd just suck in air because they just weren't familiar with how to torque a loose battery to get a good connection....so with a whip it'd be easy to hand the whip over to someone while you place and hold the batter in place for them...I suppose to those with the stock batteries or batteries that have a snug fit, this problem is not as prevalent

as for the stems....
in public I use the long straight stem in a cup

for private sessions in an upright position I prefer the bent stem or native sometimes
and for laying down I like it native

overall I'd say I use it natively most often, then the short bent one, and the long straight
 
chloe,

Jacopone

Well-Known Member
Thank you. Honestly, we think that every business should offer that level of support and that it is very foolish to do otherwise (relationships which are not sustainable are also not good for the environment). Ironically, we have many people tell us that we are crazy to do this, yet we feel that it is merely right, and that we will make our own choices and not moralize about it. Especially since we are not the first -- many good companies -- long lasting examples -- have been our inspiration in this way.
Magic-Flight,
I am very happy to see that there are companies like yours with a vision that goes past the profit as the only driver.
Thank you
 
Jacopone,

magicflight

Manufacturer
Manufacturer
NoSmoke said:
I believe the tubing is from VaporBros.
Not so -- we get our own. We do want to credit VaporBros. where credit is due though. To our knowledge, they are truly one of the original innovators providing vaporizer tech and quality products to the people -- thay have done a lot of good in the world. They have also been our friends -- a friendship which we gladly return. It is rather good, if a bit unconventional, to find the support of our more established peers in this way. Naturally we wish to support their entitlements -- hence our recognition of their trademarks, etc. on our website.

NoSmoke said:
I totally agree with you on the customer service from Blissville/MagicFlight. I just wish they would have done something ... about Launch Tube, I still feel like it was a very useless purchase of a prototype of the box.
It is not our wish to have people be dissatisfied with the Tube, even though we are also (unfortunately) unable to offer refunds on any used product. IFF people already have a Tube and want to have a Box instead, we will offer a trade -- one for one to our recycling dept. People wishing to make this exchange should send us a private email requesting a 'Tube trade' and we will reply with a shipping address and a RA number to use. Also, note that this offer does not extend to batteries and chargers, since they are the same for the Box anyway, so please do not ship these components.

Finally, people should be aware that there is a reason that we continue to offer the Tube product for sale -- it provides vaporization support for aromatic oils, resins, concentrates, and certain other more exotic materials in a way that the Box simply cannot hope to match. In short, where the Box is about convenience, the Tube design is about control. They are separate products within their own development lines and design objectives. For the connoisseur user who knows what they are doing, the Tube provides an exceptionally high level of precise user feedback and control. For a certain class of materials, there simply is no other consumer level product for which there is any hope of correct vaporization effects. There are also certain particular advantages to the Tube which make it useful in some situations where the Box is not as helpful.

-- Magic-flight
 
magicflight,

Lo

Combustion free since '09
Hey, thanks so much for the response to my post.

I do believe it is the learning curve in my case, I'm new to vaping anyway so still learning ropes. I do think the box is the cutest little thing and every friend that has seen it has asked me to write down the name. I do plan to conquer this thing, it does not seem like rocket science thankfully! Thanks :peace:
 
Lo,

sneezyjesus

Lightly Toasted
Heyo, would anybody here who owns the LB and the Vaporgenie care to throw up the differences or similarities in the high-intensity per bowl? (or in general?)

Not in any way negatively comparing the two; the punch each piece's respective bowl's pack is the factor I'm looking at with these two :)
 
sneezyjesus,

jklasd

Well-Known Member
figured id let all you guys know: engerzier came out with an updated version of the 8.5h charger. its now 4. i picked it up, see how it works. looks to be about the same price as the 8. eventually ill probably end up getting the BC9009, but right now, this will do the trick. :p
hopefully. :ninja:
 
jklasd,

Sh1zn1t

Well-Known Member
jklasd said:
figured id let all you guys know: engerzier came out with an updated version of the 8.5h charger. its now 4. i picked it up, see how it works. looks to be about the same price as the 8. eventually ill probably end up getting the BC9009, but right now, this will do the trick. :p
hopefully. :ninja:
Be sure to let us know how it performs.

I've been using the 2 batteries that came with the Launch Box and 4 2450 mah Energizers lately, all getting charged by my 2-at-a-time charger. Hahaha, ghetto but t works.
 
Sh1zn1t,

jklasd

Well-Known Member
well i got it today, though it was here oddly late in the day. usually packages are in the morning. ive tested it, though not well. seems to do the trick, which is a plus :). haven't mastered it yet, though quickly learning. got the 2 stock batteries charging now. the 2450 engerizer batteries were not snug, so im going have to read back to see what i can do, for now til i can pick up some new ones.
 
jklasd,

VivaSativa

Well-Known Member
Could anyone please upload a picture of their ABV from the LB? I wanna see if I get the same shade of brown on mine..
Thanks :peace:
 
VivaSativa,

jklasd

Well-Known Member
avb will be different on alot of factors. the weed, how your inhaling, how long the battery is in place, and so on and so forth. ones persons AVB is not anothers. some people like it barely cooked, some people liked it cooked to almost black. its basically a matter of opinion.
 
jklasd,

max

Out to lunch
jklasd said:
avb will be different on alot of factors. the weed, how your inhaling, how long the battery is in place, and so on and so forth. ones persons AVB is not anothers. some people like it barely cooked, some people liked it cooked to almost black. its basically a matter of opinion.
Yep. Comparing ABV may be helpful on a vape with a set temp, maybe...., but with something like the LB, forget it. The only temp control here is how long you apply the battery. And even the color of your herb when you load it is going to determine what it looks like afterward.
 
max,

VivaSativa

Well-Known Member
max said:
jklasd said:
avb will be different on alot of factors. the weed, how your inhaling, how long the battery is in place, and so on and so forth. ones persons AVB is not anothers. some people like it barely cooked, some people liked it cooked to almost black. its basically a matter of opinion.
Yep. Comparing ABV may be helpful on a vape with a set temp, maybe...., but with something like the LB, forget it. The only temp control here is how long you apply the battery. And even the color of your herb when you load it is going to determine what it looks like afterward.
Meh, so can you think of a way for me to know if I'm using it right? It just doesn't make sense to me that I can vape a full trench and get just a 'so so' high (and if I'd smoke half that amount I'd be extremely high).. And later when I smoke the ABV in a bong I get almost as high as I would from the fresh weed..
I only stop vaping when the vapor is harsh and tastes 'bad' (burnt popcorn).. I've tried long slow draws, short slow draws, and still the same..
If it wasn't for the still-potent ABV I'd think I just don't like the vapor high, but I think that something is wrong, if the ABV is still so full of goodness.. :(
 
VivaSativa,
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