The Herbalizer

[jds32]

@Engineer

Day 2 customer here (12/26 delivery). Love my clam (thank you), use bags almost exclusively. Really wish I could have kept my first unit, it had a very hand-made feel :-). I had 4 "fire in the hole" events, 2 of which were recorded in the flash ROM when it was returned.

1. Will you comment on these Runaway Temperature Events? Cause? Fix?
2. My lowest RTE was at a 430F setting, so with my replacement clam, I've kept it at 440F just to safe. Since your comment earlier in the week, I've cranked it all the way to 445F with no problems yet. Was this just a calibration issue? Is my current clam "safe" to 445F?
3. Will you say more about the "new" bag valves? I have a bunch of the current valves and replace with VapeBro's bags and 1/4" polymide tape. Will it be easier to replace the bags on these new vales?
4. Was there ever any consideration given to the temperature control airflow being vented away instead of sent through the bowl? Would that have allowed for a more gentle cool-down after an abrupt session end?
5. What do the think of the idea of a design with the bowl sitting down in the unit and the venting air acting to heat the bowl a' la conduction vapes? I tend to pre-heat my clam, put the filled bowl on, add the bag and then let it sit for a minute or 2 before I turn on the fan. I'd rather get the loaded bowl heated without off-gassing before I turn on the fan.
6. Finally - would it be possible to combine a conduction mechanism with precision convection without RTEs all over the place?

Thanks for joining us here. Do you know who's representing the company on the forums now?

P.S. Hippie Dickie's Bud Toaster thread is a great read!

 

[Scrimshaw]

With the Plenty, depending on how much herbs I used, I had to put the pad on top of the herbs so it would vape evenly. Is that ever the case with the Herbie?

Also I read that packing the Herbie half way is best, but it will still work with different amounts.

The only time I've ever had to put a 2nd screen on top of my herbs was with a really fluffy batch of Blue Dream—otherwise it would jam the top screen like the 3 Stooges in a doorway.

Pack it 1/2 way (to where the bowl widens) or a little more (but not full or gotta stir to get full extraction) and you're in for a treat!

 

[biohacker]

Really wish I could have kept my first unit, it had a very hand-made feel

How do you mean by hand made feel? This is a first I have read of the RTE's, sounds like some of the early EVO's!

 

[lazylathe]

Thats whats up. I've heard the Shedder is the way to go. I'm just waiting until I feel like making the investment. I can't wait to test the Herbie out and report back you guys. It will be here Tuesday! I'm pumped!

I have a couple more questions based on my experience with the Plenty. I know the Herbie is lightyears of ahead of the Plenty, its just the only home vape I've used.

Any way. With the Plenty, depending on how much herbs I used, I had to put the pad on top of the herbs so it would vape evenly. Is that ever the case with the Herbie?

Also I read that packing the Herbie half way is best, but it will still work with different amounts. With the Plenty I found that I had to at least put enough to cover the surface area of the oven's screen for it to work, is that the case with the Herbie? If not, is their any range I should stay in or does it just evenly vape however amount you feel like vaping?

I will definitely ease into it and enjoy. Thanks!

Just keep an eye on the points in your S&B grinder. When new they are sharp, after some use the points break off and are vaporized with your herb... not really a good thing. This was the reason i switched to a SCS.

With Herbie you can load a small amount, just cover the bottom screen, and you will have a nice flavourful session. Should get one decently big cloud and then a few smaller ones.
What i have been doing is placing an aromatherapy pad on top of the load when i fill a bag with vapor.
I am finding the load gets nice and evenly toasted and is usually spent after the first bag.

One thing i do remember is that in the beginning i always got a nice tan coloured ABV, even on top temp. This confused me for a while so i decided to try the tan ABV in my EVO to see if there was anything left in it. I was rewarded with a nice big cloud but the taste was atrocious!!!

You can get the ABV nice and dark but i find i need to vape till no vapour is produced, empty load and crumble it into a powder, reload and get that last hit. In the Herbie it does not taste too bad, so when supplies are low i do this for max extraction!

If you look at the bowl when it arrives you will see it flares out towards the top of the bowl.
I usually fill with material till the flare, not packed in or tamped down, just drop it in and you are good to go!

 

[John Lewus]

Pack it 1/2 way (to where the bowl widens) or a little more (but not full or gotta stir to get full extraction) and you're in for a treat!

I find that if I mostly fill the bowl and between hits remove it and tap it on different sides on a table that I don't need to stir. It makes the herbalizer so much more convenient.

 

[stickstones]

Still not grinding over here!

 

[Vapodudule]

I run my herbie almost exclusevily at 229°C/445F° for months now.

I suspect my unit to be low temped when i compare to my nano abv. there is almost always green sparkles in my ABV. It was not the case for many situations. But the variance in situations are vasts for sure. temperature and hygrometry and succion of the patient.

Could i readjust this myself (to up the global temperature) by any safe means for my device by pressing the buttons?

I would bet for no but nothing to loose for asking!

 

[jds32]

How do you mean by hand made feel? This is a first I have read of the RTE's, sounds like some of the early EVO's!

The best feature of my first clam was that it had fingerprints on the inside of the display! The finish on the outside wasn't completed (dust nibs all over it) and the bowl cut in the plastic for the bowl was quite irregular.

I really would have preferred to keep it.

 

[Mrmrmrmr]

Had a thought..what if a y attachment was made to fit on the Herbie bowl (out of the same material as the bowl of course) and you could use two
Whips at once,sort of a Herbie hookah if you will. @Engineer could the Herbie keep up with two whips at once? Bags might work as well hm..

 

[Engineer]

Hello hello again. The positivity on this thread is really astonishing, it is quite enjoyable to read.

@Engineer
You mentioned letting the cooling fan run its full course before turning the unit off. When I use mine it usually for fairly short sessions. I assume that if the cooling fan hasn't kicked on, it's ok to shut the unit off? Probably a dumb question but I'd like to keep my Herbie running for as long as possible because I got it second hand (no warranty). Thanks!

I use my Herbie the same as you. If the cooling fan hasn't kicked on then you don't need to worry about it.

@Engineer

Day 2 customer here (12/26 delivery). Love my clam (thank you), use bags almost exclusively. Really wish I could have kept my first unit, it had a very hand-made feel :-). I had 4 "fire in the hole" events, 2 of which were recorded in the flash ROM when it was returned.

1. Will you comment on these Runaway Temperature Events? Cause? Fix?
2. My lowest RTE was at a 430F setting, so with my replacement clam, I've kept it at 440F just to safe. Since your comment earlier in the week, I've cranked it all the way to 445F with no problems yet. Was this just a calibration issue? Is my current clam "safe" to 445F?
3. Will you say more about the "new" bag valves? I have a bunch of the current valves and replace with VapeBro's bags and 1/4" polymide tape. Will it be easier to replace the bags on these new vales?
4. Was there ever any consideration given to the temperature control airflow being vented away instead of sent through the bowl? Would that have allowed for a more gentle cool-down after an abrupt session end?
5. What do the think of the idea of a design with the bowl sitting down in the unit and the venting air acting to heat the bowl a' la conduction vapes? I tend to pre-heat my clam, put the filled bowl on, add the bag and then let it sit for a minute or 2 before I turn on the fan. I'd rather get the loaded bowl heated without off-gassing before I turn on the fan.
6. Finally - would it be possible to combine a conduction mechanism with precision convection without RTEs all over the place?

Thanks for joining us here. Do you know who's representing the company on the forums now?

I'm happy to hear you Love your clam!
1-2.) I've never seen the "fire in the hole" thing, or RTE as you call it. I remember reading about here, and that made me nervous (like.. what in the world is that guy doing?). So I cannot comment, or even speculate, on what could have happened.
3.) The design changes in the new design are subtle, you likely won't notice what is different except that it simply fits well. Replacing the bag on your own will be the same.
4.-6.) Good questions, and you're definitely thinking the right way about design considerations. There are a lot of things that go into the design in addition to functionality, such as safety, manufacturability, cost, reliability, consumer confusion, etc.; to do justice to your question with a complete answer would be way beyond scope. Nonetheless, for those who want the most consistent, repeatable experience, set the temp and run the fan through an empty bowl for 30-60 seconds to bring the bowl up to temp, and then load and consume.
..) There was never anyone representing Herbalizer on this forum, that has not technically changed.

I run my herbie almost exclusevily at 229°C/445F° for months now.

I suspect my unit to be low temped when i compare to my nano abv. there is almost always green sparkles in my ABV. It was not the case for many situations. But the variance in situations are vasts for sure. temperature and hygrometry and succion of the patient.

Could i readjust this myself (to up the global temperature) by any safe means for my device by pressing the buttons?

I would bet for no but nothing to loose for asking!

don't think it makes much sense to compare the Herbalizer temperature/ABV to that of the Nano; they are simply too different. Yes, in fact anyone can hack their system and adjust the offset. But if you haven't solved the Easter egg, what hope is there of finding that hidden treasure? Good question!

Had a thought..what if a y attachment was made to fit on the Herbie bowl (out of the same material as the bowl of course) and you could use two
Whips at once,sort of a Herbie hookah if you will. @Engineer could the Herbie keep up with two whips at once? Bags might work as well hm..

Sure, you could do that. You could also try some Shisha in there for an extended puff sess.

That's all for today.. will check back in soon.

BTW, very, very soon you will see a new website launched. I worked on it for months before leaving.. and I think it is pretty awe-some. I hope you do too!

 

[spincut]

The whip will stay in better if you give it a little twist when inserting it into the bowl.

I do that already, it's still flimsy and if not held right, will twist/pop off (or twist the bowl off with it even..). Something does need to be done.

Spincut I suggest getting a section of 7th floor tubing to use in place of the stock whip. Larger diameter FTW

So I get this tube, cut it to some arbitrary length, and then what? Do I put the mouth and and other end piece on it? Will they just fit on? Even then I really do not like the bowl connector, it seems precriously attached when I'm using it and have trouble relaxing as a result, because if I move myself or the whip it likely loosens or pops out.

7th floor tubing, finer grind, and making sure your screens are clean have been key to my satisfactory cloud production.

My grind is just fine, in fact I obsess over it given a regular drop in grind in a 4 piece doesn't make it fine enough in the first place. Screens are also clean, and is moot given this was an issue I had from the get go.

I also have a question for @Engineer :

While everyone is aware of the fan popping on intermittently during use (the noise plus the puffs of smoke is kind of bothersome btw), sometimes a whole other fan (or the same one) just starts running constantly. Is this bad? It happens rather randomly, and if I turn the device off and back on it it wont do it (which makes me wonder if it was based on the unit needing to be cooled at all, given it generally wouldnt have cooled off much at all in the few seconds I turned it off)?

 

[TheDoctor76859]

@Engineer I wanted to thank you for an awesome vape and ask a couple of questions. I use swag for my Herbie and this leads to long sessions. How long does it take for the cooling fan to stop? My sessions last about an hour and when I wait for the fan to turn off it seems like it does not want to stop. Will turning my Herbie off by using the button and then pressing the fan button work to cool it?

 

[Zanin]

Yeah I just had my fine grind fly out of the bowl from where the whip is connected. There's just no way to firmly attach the whip into the bowl without potentially having your material fly out of the screens. I guess I'll stop doing fine grinds for now, but vapor can still escape out where the bowl and whip meet. I could wrap something around it but I don't know what materials are safe for the hot temperatures that the top of the bowl gets.

I'm also still figuring out a way to attach the ssv whip too. Just seems to bend easily, I don't have "larger tubings" to cut and attach with like the above poster some pages back. If anyone can point me to the right direction for this type of stuff that'd be great. I have a custom valve glass mouthpiece from 7th floor coming soon.

 

[Been Vapin]

@Zanin I am vaping straight kief packs with virtually anything getting through. Maybe check to make sure the top screen is seated correctly? Try connecting the whip to the bowl off the Herbie and force that bowl coupler in deep with a solid push and twist.

 

[Mrmrmrmr]

Had to go back to the stock whip because I'm seriously concerned the 7th floor tubing may be melting slowly
For some reason I feel more medicated with the stock whip..
And @Engineer I believe the reason everyone is so happy is the Herbie. You created a fantastic device on a completely new and fascinating level in the vape world
.edit- @Zanin that's exactly what happened to mine!had to switch can't be breathing in that shit

 

[Zanin]

Had to go back to the stock whip because I'm seriously concerned the 7th floor tubing may be melting slowly.
For some reason I feel more medicated with the stock whip..
And @Engineer I believe the reason everyone is so happy is the Herbie. You created a fantastic device on a completely new and fascinating level in the vape world

That's what I thought was happneing to my SSV whip too. As it got hot it would start to bend just above the bowl. Now it stays bent. So I'm back to the stock whip now also.

 

[stickstones]

I'm now using the stock whip without the mouthpiece and I like it better. I use a bigger piece of tubing as an outer sleeve over the connection to keep it from bending over.

This isn't the answer people want, but after a bit of use the vape residue keeps my whip connector connected to the bowl just fine. That ain't gonna work for clean freaks, though.

 

[Vicki]

This isn't the answer people want, but after a bit of use the vape residue keeps my whip connector connected to the bowl just fine. That ain't gonna work for clean freaks, though.

I know you must have had me in mind when you said that. My OCD is classic here.

I'm still using the 7th floor tubing, and it seems to be better with the "bending issue," at least for me.

 

[biohacker]

I had problems with the whip coupler popping out alot at first, but like was mentioned - a SOLID push and twist, and then I had the issue that sometimes it's a nightmare to come apart again!

I definitley noticed deforming of my 7th floor tubing, and didn't like the bigger diameter. It deformed most near the bowl, especially when using the fan. I understand that silicon is rated to 500f, but is that REALLY enough of a buffer to prevent any outgassing? The 7th floor tubing is not silicon BTW.

I think this got buried, and i'm hoping for an explanation from @Engineer

Also, I mentioned in one of my posts that the speed of lowering temps is a little desceiving. For example. set temp to max. Then use the fan to decrease temp to min. Then switch to aromatherapy mode, and back to vaportherapy, and you will see that the temp isn't at min., but in fact higher. Is this a glitch, is it as accurate as should be? I also tried to physically blow air into the heater port gently, and see the temp fall fast, but after doing the "mode flip", it shows a higher temperature.

 

[Engineer]

@Engineer I wanted to thank you for an awesome vape and ask a couple of questions. I use swag for my Herbie and this leads to long sessions. How long does it take for the cooling fan to stop? My sessions last about an hour and when I wait for the fan to turn off it seems like it does not want to stop. Will turning my Herbie off by using the button and then pressing the fan button work to cool it?

The fan operation is understandably confusing due to the audible feedback, and what may seem like random behavior. The simple answer is that, the cooling fan turns on when needed, or a little sooner, and will remain on longer than needed. The reason the cooling fan turns on sometimes sooner than needed and stays on longer than needed, is for reliability. It's an ingrained NASA thing. If your cooling fan is not running, or you 'tricked' your Herbie into turning off the cooling fan before it stops on its own, that is totally OK. If the system needs the cooling fan it will turn it on.

The slightly less simple answer is that the cooling fan control is based on three variables: measured temperature, setpoint temperature, and time.

For the vapegeeks like me (that's everyone here.. right?!), here's the logic behind it. We would prefer silence, but in a closed system the cooling fan is simply a necessity so it is programmed to turn off as much as reasonably possible. The cooling fan is activated when the computer board (i.e. sensitive electronics) exceeds a particular temperature threshold, and remains on until the temperature drops below a slightly lowered temperature threshold plus three (3) minutes (this is called hysteresis and operates with similar logic as a common home thermostat); or, if the temperature is 421F or higher for more that three (3) minutes the cooling fan will turn on and run continuously, until the temperature is lowered to 420 or less for three minutes or more and the computer is cool enough. 420 is the highest temperature that won't cause the cooling fan to automatically turn on after three minutes.
So you cloud chasers get to listen to the cooling fan more than the rest. Remember what I said above - if you 'trick' your Herbie into turning off the cooling fan before its stops on its own, that is totally OK, because it will turn on when needed. There are several ways to 'trick' the cooling fan off: switch to aromatherapy mode and then back to vaportherapy mode, or tilt it dizzy for a moment and then back again.

The cooling fan noise is more annoying than I would have liked. When I left there was a plan for replacing it with a near-silent fan. Samples had been ordered, but testing hadn't started. I cannot predict when, or if, that improvement will be implemented.

Winter is coming. Herbie makes a wonderful belly warmer when its cold.

I also have a question for @Engineer :
While everyone is aware of the fan popping on intermittently during use (the noise plus the puffs of smoke is kind of bothersome btw), sometimes a whole other fan (or the same one) just starts running constantly. Is this bad? It happens rather randomly, and if I turn the device off and back on it it wont do it (which makes me wonder if it was based on the unit needing to be cooled at all, given it generally wouldnt have cooled off much at all in the few seconds I turned it off)?

You've got a lot of intertwined questions there @spincut. First, the "whole other fan [that] just starts running constantly" is the cooling fan. The answer above hopefully explains that what appears to be random, isn't.

The fan that pops on intermittently during use and produces a chattering sound along with a puff of vapor (NOT SMOKE!! ) is understandably weird. Essentially, that fan - which is the same as the assisted delivery fan - periodically stirs the air inside the Thermal Reaction Chamber (TRC) (I really like that term.. what's it going to take to add another acronym to the vapor lexicon? ). Anyway, the thermal dynamics of the TRC are very complicated and naturally wants to develop "cold spot" and "hot spots." It was discovered that the TRC performance is optimal when the system is in balance without hot spots; in other words, when the heat distribution across the system is even. This makes possible more predictable heat transfer, and therefore control of the output temperature. So the intermittent puffs are caused by the computer recognizing an imbalance and redistributing the heat. When the system is just starting out and is "cold," it is more prone to developing hot spots because different parts are sucking away heat and causing cold spots, causing the surrounding areas to become hot spots. Once your Herbie is warmed up you'll notice the puffs less and less. Don't over think it - I already did!

@biohacker - great question too, I'll answer it on my next post.

 

[Vapodudule]

Thanks for the replies @Engineer and wide explanations, will seek for the rabbit then.

How many fans physically in the device?

My herbie purs like a cat and then roars like a fan!

 

[the ob]

I do not know why, but I am oddly fascinated with the story of what is going on at herbalizer. I know josh (engineer) has chimed in, but I for one would love the hear "both sides of the story" as we have been told there are two of them.

I have never spoken to Josh. I have had contact with other people at that company (I was one of the first 10 people to order so I had spoken to people after I received it) and have had some contact since. I can say that all the people I have spoken to seemed like really good people. I guess I would just like to hear from someone who is part of the company now to get both opinions.

I guess what I am asking is will we have another representative who will posting and answering questions here? I look forward to hearing from someone who is still at the company.

I am also a huge fan of the Herbalizer and would like to see their continued success. For me, this device changed everything in terms of the performance and what works for ME.

 

[goatgobaahh]

I do not know why, but I am oddly fascinated with the story of what is going on at herbalizer. I know josh (engineer) has chimed in, but I for one would love the hear "both sides of the story" as we have been told there are two of them.

I have never spoken to Josh. I have had contact with other people at that company (I was one of the first 10 people to order so I had spoken to people after I received it) and have had some contact since. I can say that all the people I have spoken to seemed like really good people. I guess I would just like to hear from someone who is part of the company now to get both opinions.

I guess what I am asking is will we have another representative who will posting and answering questions here? I look forward to hearing from someone who is still at the company.

I am also a huge fan of the Herbalizer and would like to see their continued success. For me, this device changed everything in terms of the performance and what works for ME.

Honestly I own a herbie, I've watched this thread since it was 15 pages. Who cares? People get hired/fired/change careers all the time. Josh stated the reason (he wants to make the Herbie available for everyone). I'm guessing the folks at Herbie want to keep the "vape like a boss" exclusive to...well not everyone.(aka people that can pay for it)

Monitoring a forum from the outside like Josh did for feedback is great. To be in here and posting while answering questions of everyone here...would be tedious at best...maybe unless you're up for it! (could you imagine that being your full time job?)

Not throwing jabs around or anything but it happened it's over. Josh is moving on and so is the Herbalizer company.

You already got your Herbie and have been enjoying it or some time. I don't understand people's need to "know a reason" really it's only the parties involved who should be concerned. If there is anything more that needed to be revealed then one of the two parties will disclose it.

That being said for people having a bending issue with the SSV tubing. I don't really have that problem with the EQ replacement silicone tubing I got off amazon. This could be a better alternative.

Lately I've been mixing strains in bags which is great. I only vape at 445F though. During the day or on a weekend I'll drop it down!

Much love for Josh and the Herbalizer company I know I've sold 6 personally and someone once told me if you're good at something you don't do it for free. (looking your way herbalizer company!)

-Outtie 5000

 

[Henry81]

@Engineer as said by everyone else thank you!! Unbelievable device!! Also I'll be a customer to whatever your future holds. Is unplugging herbie in between uses bad? I've noticed it does repeat itself on the greetings, but never had a affect on the performance. Also with winter coming, how sensitive is herbie below 50 degrees f? Again thanks for the best vaporization invention to date! IMO of course

 

[biohacker]

Not throwing jabs around or anything but it happened it's over. Josh is moving on and so is the Herbalizer company.

You already got your Herbie and have been enjoying it or some time. I don't understand people's need to "know a reason" really it's only the parties involved who should be concerned. If there is anything more that needed to be revealed then one of the two parties will disclose it.
-Outtie 5000

Dude, @the ob just asked and is curious if Herbalizer will have their own rep here, since an ex-employee may be biased in certain ways. He's just curious, as am I...and it's a valid question.

That being said for people having a bending issue with the SSV tubing. I don't really have that problem with the EQ replacement silicone tubing I got off amazon. This could be a better alternative.

I agree the Arizer tubing is stiffer (and easier to clean to boot), but it also does take on the taste of ABV, and is not silicone, and from everything I have read, is actually inferior to silicon. With that being said, although I didn't use the whip much, I never really had that bending issue with the stock tubing, but did with the 7th floor.