The Herbalizer

[Vitolo]

But... maybe these temps (FTA) aren't worth it?

A comment about temps.
We all know that the temp settings on MOST vapes is not accurate.
It has been discussed a few hundred times here....
Since the settings are all measuring temps at varying spots, all the settings had been reliable for in past was personal point of reference as to "where you vaped at the last time" (sort of a marker)
ALL these vaporizers temp readouts are not accurate... yet they all have a "420" ceiling.
Why?
Because it is what they think we want/need to hear.

The Herbalizer .... (this is fact that we should remember out of respect for the maker) was not made for
one herb only.
Giving Herby a ceiling of 420 would invite unnecessary scrutiny... sort of like a FLAG.
I believe that the temp range here is warranted for, both the use of all herbal remedy, and also
in the smart marketing strategy that will allow us to have this product without intervention due to suspicious temperature ceilings!

 

[nopartofme]

I'm looking forward to hearing Herbie owners comparing notes on temperatures. That kind of discussion will be taking place on a whole new level, as many vapes aren't just inaccurate in temp reading but also vary from unit to unit.

Judging from the temperature accuracy claims being touted I imagine that the experience will be much more consistent from one Herbie to another!

 

[stickstones]

Bags taste bad because vapour condenses inside and goes stale. I don't see how the Herbalizer could be any different in this respect.

Me neither, but it was the only think I could think of to ask! Although, the bags look a little smaller to me, which made me think maybe with smaller bags the first one is more tasty than it would be with a bigger bag.

 

[luchiano]

Well, I still haven't posted my impressions (tl:dr -- quite good!!!). But I will note that Josh uploaded a new posting (EDIT: full URL here: http://www.herbalizer.com/so-what-really-is-combustion-why-herbalize/) on their site, precisely on combustion. (For those following along at home: This is something we say "Fuck" specifically to. )

I know some people at the test event wanted >455°F temps. (Which of course -- being a flavor guy I just don't get --. but to each, their own!)

But... maybe these temps (FTA) aren't worth it?

Thanks for the link.

Going high in temperatures like that is good to release beta-caryophellene efficiently since it boils fast at around 264c/507f. This substance is good for pain whether you are sick or not because it will help allow you to experience pleasure more then normal since it deals with cb2 receptors. A lot of cannabis is high in it so even if you have low cbd strains the caryophellene can still effect your cb2 receptors. With oils being so concentrated this high temperature is a good.thing to have. With bud not so much.since the cellulose with start to breakdown and give a bad taste at lower temperatures.
As for the herbalizer I cant wait for it to be released because this is the only vape that will allow a clean hit of vapor in full spectrum, meaning you can start low in temp, then up the temperature in increments WHILE you're inhaling. This will allow a concentrated vapor with little degradation of the oils which means a quicker effect then normal.

This will be my second go to vaporizer for the times I want.bong like quick hits, while the aromed will be my vape for joint like hit and I want to sit back, relax, and take everything in slow for that strong creeper high.

That halogen bulb helped create a lot good.things in our time.

 

[Vitolo]

Me neither, but it was the only think I could think of to ask! Although, the bags look a little smaller to me, which made me think maybe with smaller bags the first one is more tasty than it would be with a bigger bag.

TRUE!
For this reason, they have reduced the size of the bag for the production run, from what it was on our first "Pre-production" test units.

 

[nigel]

Although, the bags look a little smaller to me, which made me think maybe with smaller bags the first one is more tasty than it would be with a bigger bag.

TRUE!
For this reason, they have reduced the size of the bag for the production run, from what it was on our first "Pre-production" test units.

The "Happiness Balloons" (not sure if they are keeping that name) are 6 liter bags.

 

[Slightly Medicated]

I didn't manage to ask when I test drove the Herbalizer,
but I was curious if there was any issue of buildup within the unit from the backward-pressure of some stemless bongs.

It wasn't an issue for my VXC, but after a year of heavy use there's a big taste difference in the vapor because of required non-routine maintenance. Which I'm not a fan of

I asked for a response on that. I figured someone could accidentally exhale in to the whip too. I don't think it will affect it much, but I am not sure.

Just out of curiousity, how heavy is it? Compared to other desktop vapes?

The package was 6lbs declared shipping weight. That included the box, the packing material, the Herbalizer, and all the accessories.

@Slightly Medicated

how do the bags taste? I didn't like the taste of my Ion's bag last time I used it. I don't expect the Herbie bags to taste as good as the whip, but is there a ton of difference?

I think they taste better then other bag systems. Like other bag systems if you leave the bag sitting the vapor will start to condense onto the sides of the bag. That being said if you have a pretty clean bag and inhale the vapor quickly the vapor is quite tasty.

 

[vtac]

I didn't manage to ask when I test drove the Herbalizer,
but I was curious if there was any issue of buildup within the unit from the backward-pressure of some stemless bongs.

It wasn't an issue for my VXC, but after a year of heavy use there's a big taste difference in the vapor because of required non-routine maintenance. Which I'm not a fan of

Good question. You could avoid the situation by removing the bowl or your GonG adapter before you stop inhaling, and also by turning the fan on.

Bags taste bad because vapour condenses inside and goes stale. I don't see how the Herbalizer could be any different in this respect.

Bagged vapor may not taste as fresh or as rich as direct draw vapor to many palates, but I haven't found it to taste bad. I think it's kind of a garbage in garbage out deal. If you have a clean bag, a fresh bowl, use a reasonable temperature, and the herb cooks evenly during fill-up, bags can be really tasty. Admittedly, it's often the opposite that's happening when people are filling bags.

The Herbalizer can fill bags faster than other vapes from what I saw. That combined with its even cooking and precise temperature control did seem to result in tastier bagged vapor than I'm used to.

 

[NinjaMindTriks]

I really love the precise temps and I think that this vape is revolutionary from what I have seen. I would love to try it out. The fast heat up and cool down is extremely nice. I love that the vape world really seems to be exploding with new and innovative ideas. I just wish it was more in the $400-$500 dollar range.

 

[pakalolo]

Bagged vapor may not taste as fresh or as rich as direct draw vapor to many palates, but I haven't found it to taste bad. I think it's kind of a garbage in garbage out deal. If you have a clean bag, a fresh bowl, use a reasonable temperature, and the herb cooks evenly during fill-up, bags can be really tasty. Admittedly, it's often the opposite that's happening when people are filling bags.

Them there is a lot of if's, Mr. Bossman. Let me clarify. A bag starts out at a disadvantage because of the high ratio of air to vapour. The first two or three or even four bags don't necessarily taste bad, just weak on flavour, but after a bag has been filled five times it just tastes nasty to me.

 

[Stu]

I'm hopeful that the Herbie bags might taste better since they are made of a different material than volcano/eq/reynolds bags (they don't crackle like a bag of Doritos).

But even if taste is not improved, the bags themselves are an improvement in bag delivery vaporization imo. The valve itself a fantastic evolution in bag valves and seems to me to be far superior than existing bag vapes on the market today.

 

[vtac]

The first two or three or even four bags don't necessarily taste bad, just weak on flavour, but after a bag has been filled five times it just tastes nasty to me.

That's true, but after a bowl has been vaped enough for 5 bag fills it's going to taste popcorny in any delivery mode. Direct draw is my preference 95% of the time for personal use I and agree that direct draw vapor will provide fresher and sharper flavor than the same vapor from a bag. I just couldn't let the "bags taste bad" comment go unchallenged.

A bag starts out at a disadvantage because of the high ratio of air to vapour.

In my limited testing, the Herbalizer did appear to produce a good vapor:air ratio when filling bags. Possibly another benefit of the precision temp control.

It would be difficult to do detailed side-by-side comparisons with other vaporizers due to temperature inconsistencies, but we should be able see how long it takes different bag vapes to fill a fixed bag size. As I said before, it seemed like the Herbalizer filled bags faster, but I haven't done any reliable testing.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

side-by-side comparisons with other vaporizers due to temperature inconsistencies

but isn't the main claim to fame of the Volcano that it maintains the set temperature, due to the massive (i.e. german engineered) aluminum block heat source???

 

[t-dub]

I'm interested to see how the vapor density compares to the herbalAire for 2 reasons. One thing I'm interested in is if there is any kind of "cyclonic" or vortex action going on in the Herbalizer bowl like the HA has. Second is, I am also interested in seeing the vapor density output difference, if there is any, with a continuous fan vs a diaphragm pump. One of the reasons, imho, the HA extracts like it does is that aquarium pump it uses. It creates a lot of "vibratory action" in the air delivery, which kinda helps create the vapor density in a way.

 

[vtac]

but isn't the main claim to fame of the Volcano that it maintains the set temperature, due to the massive (i.e. german engineered) aluminum block heat source???

The Volcano is one of the vapes that I'd put more stock into when it comes to temperature accuracy/consistency. The Herbalaire is another. What we really need to do is get these vapes in the lab with some highly accurate airstream thermocouple probes and run our own tests. Another day and another thread.

 

[luchiano]

but isn't the main claim to fame of the Volcano that it maintains the set temperature, due to the massive (i.e. german engineered) aluminum block heat source???

Yeah but the digital is way better than the original as fas as keeping the temps close to whats dialed in. The temps in the bowl is another thing though since they calibrate it on the bottom screen where the herb lays. Since the heater is under the herb, they didn't take into account the plant will cool down the temperature and it will take a few seconds to heat up to proper temperature which means more bags to achieve full extraction. The only vape that I can think of.the calibrates in a way that takes.into consideration the herb taking up space and cooling off.the air is.the aromed since.it measures.at.the.screen but the heater is on top of the herb.

Your vape is different since the herb is surrounded by the heater but you still see the dip at the beginning of the inhale although it gets there fast wirh the design. May I ask where did you calibrate the temperature setting? Being that the design is so different it was simething I was wondering.

Also can anyone from herbalizer let me know where it is cakibrated.as.well. I'm not comparing vapes to start a fight to see whos better just wanting to learn the ins and outs of the vaporizers J like. Forgive my spelling errors.but.Im typing from a phone with a small keyboard.

 

[stickstones]

^^^
@luchiano

I think it is detailed earlier in this thread that it calibrates at three different places.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

i have my k-type thermocouple (0.010" non-insulated) mounted to the heater coil at the hottest point of the coil, i.e. in the middle of the 24" length of nichrome wire.

i have placed a digital thermometer probe in the middle of the loaded herb vial and find the temperature is 50°F lower than the heater until there is air flow during a toke. then the temperature rises to match the heater temperature within 5 seconds and stays there for the duration of the toke. the heat control algorithm and massive battery current (16 amps) does not lose temperature during the toke. in fact, the "D" term (of the PID algorithm) is a bit agressive and the temperature actually increases about 1°F during the toke.

i was going to answer in a private message, but i would like to encourage more transparency in vaporizer design -- at least on FC.

@sticks -- which three places? as they say, if there are no pictures it didn't happen

 

[pakalolo]

That's true, but after a bowl has been vaped enough for 5 bag fills it's going to taste popcorny in any delivery mode. Direct draw is my preference 95% of the time for personal use I and agree that direct draw vapor will provide fresher and sharper flavor than the same vapor from a bag. I just couldn't let the "bags taste bad" comment go unchallenged.


In my limited testing, the Herbalizer did appear to produce a good vapor:air ratio when filling bags. Possibly another benefit of the precision temp control.

It would be difficult to do detailed side-by-side comparisons with other vaporizers due to temperature inconsistencies, but we should be able see how long it takes different bag vapes to fill a fixed bag size. As I said before, it seemed like the Herbalizer filled bags faster, but I haven't done any reliable testing.

I'll justa little more and point out that I wasn't talking about using the same bowl for all the fills. Vapour condenses inside a bag (any bag) and unless it is cleaned out between bowls, it's there to make your next bowl taste bad. That's what I was talking about.

I developed a way to judge vapour density in a bag but I've never actually used it because, well, I don't like bags. Basically, it consists of a target that you place behind the bag. The target has large numbers and bars on it in ever-decreasing shades of grey. The density is the number of the first bar you can make out through the bag:

​

I'm not sure the range is right, it might need darker bars than 32. Problem: you need to establish a standard way to measure through the same depth of vapour.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled topic.

 

[luchiano]

@pakalolo, that is a good system but you have to take into account.that if the pump or fan is bringing in a lot of air and the heater of the vaporizer has a big variable in the cooling/heating it will cause the vapor to condense while still in vapor form and give.a.thick look but it isn't really that concentrated.

You can also have the opposite where a vaporizer's heater is really stable, doesn't pump too much air, and so the vapor will be thin in the bag but it is full of all the actives from the herb.
That is a good start to measure vapor in bags though.

 

[Vitolo]

Personally I never cared for the Herbal Aire.
Mine has not been used in over a year.
Reason is that I am not crazy about that air pump.
The "Viva la Vape Guerrilla Vape" (unpopular Bag vape)
uses the identical pump as came with the Herbalaire.
For the short time I did use it I always used it without the pump.
I did not share your experience of finding the temp on the HA to be accurate.

I do use the Volcano more often.. I do find the temp control to be consistent and accurate on the Digi Volcano.. Very accurate.
My experiences with the Herbalizer revealed a more accurate
temp control than my Volcano, in that I could clearly see visually the difference in vapor density
in single degree increments, and using Herbalizer, I could taste variance in these slight and small changes in temperature setting.

 

[pakalolo]

@pakalolo, that is a good system but you have to take into account.that if the pump or fan is bringing in a lot of air and the heater of the vaporizer has a big variable in the cooling/heating it will cause the vapor to condense while still in vapor form and give.a.thick look but it isn't really that concentrated.

You can also have the opposite where a vaporizer's heater is really stable, doesn't pump too much air, and so the vapor will be thin in the bag but it is full of all the actives from the herb.
That is a good start to measure vapor in bags though.

Yes, that's another point to consider. You'd need to standardize the timing of the measurement to make it as consistent as possible, always making it immediately after stopping the fill for example. There is no intention here of measuring the potency of the vapour. This is strictly a way to tell how thick it is.

If this discussion is to continue then we need a separate thread.

 

[Slightly Medicated]

Did i miss any questions? I have this unit for another few days, so if you got a question feel free to ask.

 

[nopartofme]

How responsive is the display? I've got a high end synthesizer that has a display with noticeable lag and it always bugged me a little, seemed to make it feel cheaper.

Not that it would make me less willing to pay the asking price, just nitpicking...

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

No noticeable lag when we changed temperatures.