Discontinued The Firefly Vaporizer

[mitchgo61]

2) Buy a new battery, and continue using the FireFly infrequently. If the new battery also dies with minimal use after 6 months? Stuck buying more. Hmmm, $30-$60 every six months for batteries that only get used a few dozen times?
3) Buy a new battery, and use the FireFly more heavily. If the new battery dies within 3-6 months, that's considered normal. Hmmm, $60-$120 every six months for batteries?

I believe the new batteries, just like the old ones, just like most batteries, have a capacity to be charged a finite number of times prior to degrading, usually around 400 charges or so. If you charge twice a day, there's your 7 months of battery life. It's not a limitation unique to FF batteries.

I've had my "new" FF batteries since March, 7 or 8 months, with no sign so far of degradation.

After seeing all of the posts about people returning 4-5 fireflys keeps me from wanting one. I Dont understand how something that almost 300 bucks breaks so easily. That's like taking my ps4 back 6 times a year I would be livid. I think I may just buy a grasshopper

Because the GH will never break or need service. If you can even get one. Have you even read the GH thread?

 

[robm321]

Hey gang, I wanted to share my experiences with the FireFly. I'm a long time lurker and first time poster. Maybe you can help me improve the situation below...

In late April of this year, I purchased a Firefly with an extra battery and external charger. I already owned a Vapman (among other portables) and had grown quite fond of it. I was hoping the FireFly might be like a battery-powered version of the Vapman. As you may be aware, the Vapman also has a non-trivial learning curve, so I wasn't worried about that issue with the Firefly. I like doing research before my purchases, so I was well prepared for all sorts of experiments to figure out the best way to use the Firefly. Sadly, my experiments never yielded the clouds I was looking for, no matter how hard I tried. I combusted once, so I still felt like it was an issue with my technique, but I couldn't figure it out. One oddity: I can get noticeably bigger/thicker clouds if I tightly squeeze the lid against the bottom. This reduces the air flow significantly, but in a way that my device seems to prefer. If I don't do this, the draw is almost too fast. It doesn't give me confidence that I'm drawing air over the bowl - instead, it kind of feels like air is leaking in from various unsealed parts of the lid, leading to barely-visible vapor. Just speculation, though.

Nevertheless, I hung on to the FireFly, periodically (every one or two weeks) giving it a shot to see if my technique was improving at all. More recently, I decided that, even if I couldn't get large clouds with the FireFly, it was still an interesting device for its great flavor, and low temp vaping in general. I need not worry about getting huge clouds _all_ the time. The vaping experience is unique, and that's something important to me. I like to mix it up with different vapes often.

Sadly, just as my interest in the FireFly was rekindling, one of the two batteries died. It pretends to charge, but can't keep the heater on for more than a few seconds. Both of my batteries are 770 Lithium Polymer, and I switch between them evenly. If I had to guess, I would say I have completely drained and recharged the dead battery between 20 and 30 times. I really didn't use the FireFly that much during the first few months at all and, again, I've always had two batteries for it.

I sent an email to FireFly describing my battery issue, and now I wish I hadn't. I thought they would be understanding and send a replacement. Instead, I've been continually given the run-around about how batteries only last so long when they're exposed to the heat of the FireFly. Since I didn't report an issue within the first month, they refuse to acknowledge that the battery could possibly be defective. It doesn't matter to them that I wasn't using it very often. They openly agreed that 20-30 recharge cycles is very low and that the average amount of recharge cycles for lithium batteries is in the 100s. But, since the battery worked fine for the first month (even though I only used it a few times), they won't even consider the possibility that it is defective and needs replacement. Yes, they do sometimes make exceptions if an issue is reported within _two_ months, but not six months. I asked: if you believe my reporting of the situation, why does it matter that it has been six months? They confirmed that they believe my report, but also that they had to adjust their replacement policy because of too many people taking advantage of replacements. I asked, again: if you believe my report, can't you make an exception to the policy? The policy seems to exist to protect against liars, so can't you make an exception for someone that you believe is telling the truth? What's the difference between 2 and 6 months, if you believe my report? They responded (verbatim): "The difference between two months and 6 months is a four months." Wow, didn't see that coming. Intentionally mocking the customer, really?

The worst part is this: in an attempt to assure me that my dead battery is normal, they've repeatedly told me that 3-6 months is the average lifespan they expect for their new batteries. I've tried to respond: I haven't been using it an average amount, or even close! It shouldn't die this quickly with very minimal use! But they don't seem to care. And in fact they revealed a bigger issue: they expect the cost to own this vaporizer is (2 batteries every 3-6 months @ $30/battery) $120-$240/year! And that is totally reasonable to them. I repeated that math back to them, and got no disagreement. So it seems these are my options going forward:
1) Don't buy a new battery, give up on the FireFly. Not my favorite option, if it can be avoided. (Okay, I could use it with a single battery, but I think most people here understand why that's not a great option)
2) Buy a new battery, and continue using the FireFly infrequently. If the new battery also dies with minimal use after 6 months? Stuck buying more. Hmmm, $30-$60 every six months for batteries that only get used a few dozen times?
3) Buy a new battery, and use the FireFly more heavily. If the new battery dies within 3-6 months, that's considered normal. Hmmm, $60-$120 every six months for batteries? Even if I do use it often, that's really expensive.

All the options seem pretty crappy

Edit: math

I hate to say that I had the same experience as you. I really liked the idea of a portable convection vape. It worked great for about a week. I bought the charger and an extra battery. Both batteries died. They would charge fully then while taking a pull, the indicator would turn red. I got a replacement battery under warranty. That one lasted another week. I have three batteries that now last a few seconds each, a charger and a brick (Firefly). I just consider it a loss of money. I guess I could try and claim the warranty, but sadly, I think I'll end up in the same situation as you, so I guess its my loss. The Arizer Air was the ultimate solution, they know how to make shit right. I now have a $300+ paper weight... and who uses paper anymore?

I just don't understand why these review sites still recommend this vape. Its flawed and they crap all over their customers. Nice business model. And Steve Jobs was his inspiration?

Anyway, I understand new products can tank and be tough on companies having to replace them, etc. So I just wanted to leave my experience out there. I'll most likely never buy a future anything from them. But I don't hate on them. The vape was nice when I had the ability to power it.

 

[mitchgo61]

I just don't understand why these review sites still recommend this vape. Its flawed and they crap all over their customers. Nice business model. And Steve Jobs was his inspiration?

Sorry you had a bad experience. But your characterization of the FF people is a massive, mis-leading, and unfair generalization. Some of us have had nothing but great experiences with them, despite device failures. (Find me a gen 1 port without failures. I dare ya.)

Their amazing customer service is what has kept me loyal for two years now. It sounds like you haven't even contacted them, and have just assumed they will not take care of you. Why don't you call them and at least give them a chance to make you happy, rather than assuming they won't, and smearing a good company here in public?

 

[Mike M]

I'm pissed off. I've never complained about my firefly, sent it back or bugged them about anything. In fact I've always been highly complimentary. I called them and inquired about buying new batteries, asking if they could make me some kind of deal on two and they shut me down, saying I could get only get free $30 auxiliary charger which I had already. To top it off, the cheapest shipping charge to my state for this $30 battery is over $41 because it's too much trouble to drop it into the mail for under $5. So the best deal for two batteries is over $100, fuck that with a red-hot poker! I don't even want to use it anymore I'm so pissed, I have many options now and I just wanted to see if the ff could keep up with the new cells.

I got pretty angry too about having to buy more of these to make it work, and they sent me a free one. I told them I was a loyal customer, and had already spent too much on batteries and chargers to make it work, I was really about to retire it when the new battery came.

 

[grokit]

I got pretty angry too about having to buy more of these to make it work, and they sent me a free one. I told them I was a loyal customer, and had already spent too much on batteries and chargers to make it work, I was really about to retire it when the new battery came.

Good for you

They referred me to a retailer so I could buy one for less than $71 shipped.
But when I went to the retailer's website they still had the old 750 mah battery listed
edit:
Prediction: my ff will get used even less than it is now when I get new vapes with the battery $

 

[Frandemarco]

Wow you know what I may just get the arizer air instead at least I know its much more reliable and wait on the ff2, hopefully with a better battery and durability

 

[HugeBeard]

I got another response from FireFly customer service today. Apparently they hadn't realized I was already using the new 770 Lithium Polymer batteries (even though I purchased from them, and explicitly provided my order number in my original email). In light of this "new" information, they have changed their response. Now they feel it's possible that my device has in fact caused the battery to die prematurely, and they'd like me to send it in for repair. They've even said they'll replace the battery if it's dead.

I'm left with mixed emotions, but a bit of hope too. Miscommunication is a plausible, if not unfortunate, explanation for the run-around they were giving me. I can imagine from their point of view: they recently improved their battery technology, due to known issues with the old batteries. Believing I had an old battery, they really just wanted me to upgrade to the latest technology. They probably thought that I was hitting some of the known issues with the old technology, and therefore I wouldn't likely hit the same issues with a new battery. Just unfortunate that they didn't ask/clarify that sooner, or look up my order number to figure it out. All that other information about how they expect their new batteries to die every 3-6 months, on average, still bothers me quite a bit. Sure, if I charge the battery twice a day for 7 months, that might be a reasonable lifespan before it died. But I have two batteries, and a day job, so I'm not doing (2-3 sessions per battery * 2 batteries * 2 recharges/day) 8-12 sessions every day.

I will send it in and cross my fingers for the best when I get it back. If nothing else, it's comforting that they're no longer trying to convince me that the lightly used battery should have died as early as it did. That means hope for the future!

I need to give FireFly some credit too:
1) They've been extremely prompt about responding to my emails. During business hours, we had numerous back and forth mails, often within a single day. That made me feel like I was being listened to, even if they didn't always address all of my points in their responses. There was never a whole day that went by without a response, and I really appreciate that.
2) They eventually changed their minds and are now putting in a good effort to help improve the situation. That might sound simple and not creditworthy, but it also would have been very easy for them to hold their ground and ignore my continued complaints. I had no leverage. Instead, they continued to listen and eventually figured out the miscommunication. I applaud any human being who is willing to use new information to adjust their viewpoint in an ongoing argument. It simply doesn't happen very often, despite the common-sense nature of it.

 

[robm321]

Sorry you had a bad experience. But your characterization of the FF people is a massive, mis-leading, and unfair generalization. Some of us have had nothing but great experiences with them, despite device failures. (Find me a gen 1 port without failures. I dare ya.)

Their amazing customer service is what has kept me loyal for two years now. It sounds like you haven't even contacted them, and have just assumed they will not take care of you. Why don't you call them and at least give them a chance to make you happy, rather than assuming they won't, and smearing a good company here in public?

That's a fair point. I don't mean to cast a negative on the company. I just wanted to give my ubiased experience so far. I may give them a call.

 

[Edric al-Fali]

After seeing all of the posts about people returning 4-5 fireflys keeps me from wanting one. I Dont understand how something that almost 300 bucks breaks so easily. That's like taking my ps4 back 6 times a year I would be livid. I think I may just buy a grasshopper

The grasshopper is plagued with problems too and has a massive delay for getting one. I would recommend the Zion, but they have a delay too as they just started selling the actual product. I haven't gotten mine yet, but swing over to their thread to see what others think of it. I will be reviewing it when I get it. It looks like a solidly built product, though kinda big. The batteries and charger are also universal and can be purchased at most head shops. Not so sure if the Grasshopper is the same, but it looks like it has a common battery.

As far as on demand heat, these are the only three I have seen so far.

 

[grokit]

@Edric al-Fali, the gh has its own proprietary battery

 

[RelaxedNow]

The grasshopper is plagued with problems too and has a massive delay for getting one. I would recommend the Zion, but they have a delay too as they just started selling the actual product. I haven't gotten mine yet, but swing over to their thread to see what others think of it. I will be reviewing it when I get it. It looks like a solidly built product, though kinda big. The batteries and charger are also universal and can be purchased at most head shops. Not so sure if the Grasshopper is the same, but it looks like it has a common battery.

As far as on demand heat, these are the only three I have seen so far.

The Elevape Smart Vaporizer (ESV) provides instant (no wait at all) on-demand heat. They've had their own battery issues, but seem to have it worked out now with new firmware. The biggest downside is that the battery isn't user-replaceable. Their customer service is outstanding IMO, and I think you'll see that on the ESV thread.

I keep this one on my nightstand for middle-of-the-night get-back-to-sleep hits. Like other convection vapes, there's a learning curve, but it will provide clouds at higher temps. I get at least 3 bowls from each charge.

By the way, I also have a FF and can't complain, but since the new ESV firmware was released, the latter has become my go-to portable. On the other hand, I'm not yet satisfied with any portable I've used, so my Herbalizer has been resurrected, and is now seeing daily use again.

 

[Frandemarco]

The grasshopper is plagued with problems too and has a massive delay for getting one. I would recommend the Zion, but they have a delay too as they just started selling the actual product. I haven't gotten mine yet, but swing over to their thread to see what others think of it. I will be reviewing it when I get it. It looks like a solidly built product, though kinda big. The batteries and charger are also universal and can be purchased at most head shops. Not so sure if the Grasshopper is the same, but it looks like it has a common battery.

As far as on demand heat, these are the only three I have seen so far.

Thanks Eric, I actually did some more researched and you are right about the grasshopper I just Dont understand how these 200 and up products breaks so easily.

 

[petey]

Ahh. Finally got a good one. Fourth Firefly. I had been wondering if I was going crazy, because the first and second replacements just weren't vaping nearly as well as I remembered the first one working. (I had to return the first one because of a weird flickering light -- otherwise I loved it.) The the second one had a hard draw and weak heat -- a bad combo. I lived with the third one for months, because it seemed ridiculous to go through yet another exchange. It tasted like shit and burned my good stuff.

Finally, the fourth unit is perfectly sweet.

I'm posting just to encourage anyone who isn't thrilled with their FF to exchange it. Because it should be wonderful. I (and others, like Mitch especially) have the advantage of having experienced the joys of a FF that works right. If I had first received a bad one I would have just thought, "what's so special about this shitty thing?" and tried something else.

This last exchange was not quite as easy as the first two. They gave me a sort of questionnaire, asking details about the unit; maybe they're gathering data.They also wanted to check to see if my bad one could be repaired, which slowed down the process, and then they sent the replacement ground shipping. But they did pay for the shipping. If they are losing money because of all the exchanges, hopefully they are using the experience to create a new version without all the inconsistencies.

But this one is great: smooth draw, perfect quick heat, and great taste. The only weird thing is that it came with a small scratch -- almost a nick -- on the glass. Was it recycled? I don't know. But I'm not going to let it go as long as it's working well. (Also came with a 770.)

 

[mitchgo61]

Ahh. Finally got a good one.
Finally, the fourth unit is perfectly sweet.

I'm posting just to encourage anyone who isn't thrilled with their FF to exchange it. Because it should be wonderful. I (and others, like Mitch especially) have the advantage of having experienced the joys of a FF that works right. If I had first received a bad one I would have just thought, "what's so special about this shitty thing?" and tried something else.

That's great to hear Petey. I was wondering how you were doing! Glad things are going well, FF-wise.

This last exchange was not quite as easy as the first two. They gave me a sort of questionnaire, asking details about the unit; maybe they're gathering data.They also wanted to check to see if my bad one could be repaired, which slowed down the process, and then they sent the replacement ground shipping. But they did pay for the shipping. If they are losing money because of all the exchanges, hopefully they are using the experience to create a new version without all the inconsistencies.

Interesting. And about time too...they really need more detailed feedback on these failed units. Hopefully it helps them add some more robustness to the (long-awaited) FF 2. I too have felt a little bad about all the money they've lost on failed/returned units. I hope things will be looking up for them in the future...

Thanks for sharing your positive resolution Petey! Vape in good health my friend....

 

[petey]

I just bought a rechargeable weed eater. Sick and tired of dealing with little carburetors. The instructions explicitly say the best way to manage the battery is to leave it on its charger, plugged in, whenever its not in use -- even all winter long.

I've seen opinions in this thread about best practices with FF batteries, but I wonder if anyone knows with certainty. I've just been plugging it back in after every evening's use and leaving it there until the next evening. (So I almost never deplete it to red.) Is there a consensus for a better way?

 

[hafalump]

I am wondering the way to store batteries when not in use for a couple months?

 

[UnshavenFish]

I just bought a rechargeable weed eater. Sick and tired of dealing with little carburetors.

I don't know what this means

The instructions explicitly say the best way to manage the battery is to leave it on its charger, plugged in, whenever its not in use -- even all winter long.

If these are the words used it doesn't say it's the best way to treat your battery, just the best way to manage it, which could just mean that it's simply fully charged and ready to use regardless of if you maybe have to replace it sooner.

Assuming we are talking li-ion..

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/charging_lithium_ion_batteries

From the link above...

Li-ion cannot absorb overcharge, and when fully charged the charge current must be cut off. A continuous trickle charge (maintenance charge) would cause plating of metallic lithium, and this could compromise safety. To minimize stress, keep the lithium-ion battery at the 4.20V/cell peak voltage as short a time as possible.

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/bu_808b_what_causes_li_ion_to_die

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries

I am wondering the way to store batteries when not in use for a couple months?

For me even if it was going to be a couple weeks I would aim for roughly a half charge (just like they come when you buy them, and for the same reasons), either fully charge and have a bowl or two depending on usage, or run flat then charge for 20-30 mins, I have followed this with all my rechargeable cells/batterys adjusting variables by device or power usage and haven't had anything die sooner than I would expect based on time/usage.

 

[petey]

Thanks Unshaven. These are helpful links. Maybe Black and Decker doesn't care if my weed eater battery dies early, but they do give warnings regarding temperature and other conditions that might shorten the battery's life. Their first statement on the matter jibes with your theory:

"The charger [which is lithium-ion] and battery pack can be left connected with the green LED glowing indefinitely. The charger will keep the battery pack fresh and fully charged."

But then they say:

"Recharge discharged batteries as soon as possible after use or battery life may be greatly diminished."

And:

"You may also charge a partially used pack whenever you desire with no adverse affect [sic] on the battery pack."

Altogether, I think you'll agree, Black and Decker gives the impression that keeping the battery on the charger is fine.

As for the Firefly, it's an issue for me because I used it for medical reasons, just before bedtime, so keeping tabs on when it's fully charged would be a hassle for me.

However. The big caveat that sticks in my craw is in your final link (from Battery University):

"A properly functioning Li-ion charger will terminate charge when the battery is full."

I'm no expert (obviously), but I would think this implies that it's pretty standard for modern chargers to allow batteries to sit, connected, with no adverse effects. Maybe this is how Black and Decker's charger is designed to function.

But what about Firefly's?

 

[UnshavenFish]

Chargers will cutoff once the cell is full otherwise they would go boom, but keeping them at full charge or empty will shorten overall life, the warning about charging when empty is right as if left empty over time the voltage could drop too low and make the battery unchargeable, heat is also not good so mix heat (under 30°c is ideal) with a full or empty charge even if it's not being used and the cell will loose capacity quicker than if it was being used and cycled.

The reason they come with a storage charge (around 3.7v for most vape cells) is so they can sit on a shelf or in a warehouse somewhere while waiting to be sold, and not die as soon as they are used because they have sat for a year with a full charge and are now almost useless.

Some company's will advise about storage charges, but lots don't as most customers want the best runtime and to have something there and ready to use when they want it, but don't worry as they also sell replacement battery's and usually at a very reasonable price

If your a medical user and will be using every day before bed depending on how many battery's you have you will probably be charging everyday or everyother day depending on usage, the good thing about the firefly is the battery charges from empty to full in around 45 minutes so even if you loose track it won't take long to charge.

Now if it's a black and decker power tool kind of battery they are built and work a bit different to the firefly battery but the principles are basically the same, if you do keep it fully charged it will work fine with no loss of performance and you should still get a year or so out of the battery because of the size and power before you notice any major loss in capacity, but I wouldn't recommend keeping the firefly battery fully charged if it's not going to be used for a while (say a week or two) as its already quite a small capacity battery to start with, if it's used regular it's not really anything to worry about though.

 

[drunkglitter]

I got the firefly about a month ago but I can figure how to get it to work properly. I barely get any vapor, the herbs dont seem to change brown that much and the firefly quickly gets too hot to hold. Does anyone have a solution?

 

[mitchgo61]

I got the firefly about a month ago but I can figure how to get it to work properly. I barely get any vapor, the herbs dont seem to change brown that much and the firefly quickly gets too hot to hold. Does anyone have a solution?

There are as many different techniques as there are users, it seems. Take a quick spin through the "best of" thread (it's only six pages)....there are many great posts on FF tips and techniques. You will likely discover what works best for you via trial and error. (The FF can definitely be a little tricky.)

http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/best-of-the-firefly-vaporizer-thread.16628/

FWIW I get best results when I:

1. Pack the bowl very densely.
2. Hold the heat button for four seconds prior to drawing.
3. Hold the heat button while drawing until I feel vapor.
4. Continue to draw after releasing the button to get the remaining vapor.
5. Take consecutive hits quickly while the FF has a nice thermal mass built up.
6. Open and stir every few hits.

If you find you need more heat you can pulse the button on and off while you draw. If the FF gets too hot set it on a glass tabletop for like 30 seconds.

Good luck!

 

[slcbdco]

Thanks Eric, I actually did some more researched and you are right about the grasshopper I just Dont understand how these 200 and up products breaks so easily.

I have both a firefly and a grasshopper. I had to return both on warranty and now have both and they work great. The firefly has great flavor when you master the technique but the GH is the superior vape hands down, well worth the wait ... particularly if you can treat yo self with a firefly in the meanwhile

 

[foreverstrong]

My three-month-old silver FF died this weekend. I am very disappointed. I submitted a support request. I hope that this can be resolved quickly. I currently do not have a backup convection or conduction vaporizer. After reading about the Grasshopper, I want a Grasshopper, but the earliest ship date on their website is December.

 

[hafalump]

December of what year?

 

[foreverstrong]

December of what year?

2015