The Chinese SJK Induction Heater and The VapCap
- Thread starter Hackerman
- Start date
Egzoset
Banned
Hi again Ricardo,
There's both cognitive and real work involved, here's the legacy of a true pioneer who was "last seen" 4 years ago:
[ http:// fuckcombustion.com/threads/induction-dabber.14160/ ]
FC: Induction dabber (2014-May-23)
YouTube: MVI 4556 (Maxwell's hammer part 2--The Prototype) [2014-Jun-9]
Good day, have fun!! 
There's both cognitive and real work involved, here's the legacy of a true pioneer who was "last seen" 4 years ago:
[ http:// fuckcombustion.com/threads/induction-dabber.14160/ ]
FC: Induction dabber (2014-May-23)
-dab8-
Dyna-saur
My induction heater arrived! I also bought a @DDave water wand and his hands free induction heater mod.
Love them all with caveats.
The induction heater for some reason doesn’t realize the vapcap is still in it so literally every cycle of the induction heater I have to take it out and put it back in again, till the cap clicks, usually about 5-6 cycles.
Haven’t actually tried it without the mod. Maybe it would realize there was still metal in it then, but I like not having to worry about not touching the sides, so...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Love them all with caveats.
The induction heater for some reason doesn’t realize the vapcap is still in it so literally every cycle of the induction heater I have to take it out and put it back in again, till the cap clicks, usually about 5-6 cycles.
Haven’t actually tried it without the mod. Maybe it would realize there was still metal in it then, but I like not having to worry about not touching the sides, so...
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
CuckFumbustion
Lo and Behold! The transformative power of Vapor.
I'm dense as to the PWR requirements are needed for my US socket (110v? 120v?). And I need to educate my self and remain 'current'. 
All the pics listed on Ebay and elsewhere have the 2 post variety shown or have the plug hidden in the pics. Different sellers won't give me a straight answer or make it even less clear in their descriptions.
So what converter\adapter would I need/want for the 110V unit. That's the model I want right? Now lets say I got the 220v version instead of what I wanted. Can I get a simple adapter for that or would some transformer be involved.
All the pics listed on Ebay and elsewhere have the 2 post variety shown or have the plug hidden in the pics. Different sellers won't give me a straight answer or make it even less clear in their descriptions.So what converter\adapter would I need/want for the 110V unit. That's the model I want right? Now lets say I got the 220v version instead of what I wanted. Can I get a simple adapter for that or would some transformer be involved.
EU=Round Pin Plug=220-240v(plain travel adapter needed for AU)
US=Flat Pin Plug=110-120v (no adapter needed in US)
If your location was less vague, I could post a link for the right one.
Or you can just buy this one, I did and when I asked for one to suit Australia, they said they have already sent the correct voltage and an adapter to suit.;
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/130W-Dental-Lab-SJK-Wax-Heater-Infrared-Electronic-Sensor-Carving-Equipment-NEW/222815109775?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649
I got mine for C$60, the listing says C$63 or offers
US=Flat Pin Plug=110-120v (no adapter needed in US)
If your location was less vague, I could post a link for the right one.
Or you can just buy this one, I did and when I asked for one to suit Australia, they said they have already sent the correct voltage and an adapter to suit.;
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/130W-Dental-Lab-SJK-Wax-Heater-Infrared-Electronic-Sensor-Carving-Equipment-NEW/222815109775?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649
I got mine for C$60, the listing says C$63 or offers
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I've seen this before.
Take the mod out of the cap of of the induction heater and reinstall it, but not as far in the cap. Try to align the rim of the glass basket with the rim of the cap.
Like this.
This stabilized the heating cycles of the sjk IH when it was heating a vapcap.
Egzoset
Banned
Salutations -dab8-,
Perhaps StardustSailor offered a hint of solution right here, previously:
Which leads to a 10+ years old document on some manufacturer's web page:
[ https:// www.infineon.com/cms/en/product/power/ac-dc-power-conversion/ac-dc-pwm-pfc-controller/ac-dc-function-and-industrial-ics/tca355g/ ]
TCA355G Data Sheet (.PDF, 2007-Jul-24)
Possibly this could even suggest Hackerman's contribution could serve to enhance Pipe's own, does it not?
Though i got to wonder why attempt to detect metal when it would simply seem more convenient just to go optic instead, since the cavity ain't supposed to be filled/obstructed between times of use, after all...
So... Does the "cup" material allow IR radiation to pass through, for example?... If so then would it not be an option to detect optical obstruction??
Good day, have fun!!
Perhaps StardustSailor offered a hint of solution right here, previously:
Which leads to a 10+ years old document on some manufacturer's web page:
[ https:// www.infineon.com/cms/en/product/power/ac-dc-power-conversion/ac-dc-pwm-pfc-controller/ac-dc-function-and-industrial-ics/tca355g/ ]
TCA355G Data Sheet (.PDF, 2007-Jul-24)
Though i got to wonder why attempt to detect metal when it would simply seem more convenient just to go optic instead, since the cavity ain't supposed to be filled/obstructed between times of use, after all...
So... Does the "cup" material allow IR radiation to pass through, for example?... If so then would it not be an option to detect optical obstruction??
Good day, have fun!!
Hackerman
User
@stardustsailor and @Egzoset We are going to find out if you are correct. One of my units failed. I believe it is that proximity switch that failed.
Thanks for the input, both of you. I am tracing the pins from the 8 pin SMD and from the 14 pin IC that controls the LED and the fan.
At a quick glance, it looks possible that SMD is a knockoff of the TCA305 as Stardustsailor said. Here is a quick description of where each pin goes. It's a quick glance so something may not be 100% correct. I'll try to confirm.
Pin 1 (GND) goes to ground.
Pin 2 (Distance) goes to the Variable Pot and then back into pin 8 (Hysteresis).
Pin 3 (Integrating Capacitance) has a small cap connected to ground.
Pin 4 (Q bar Output) is No Connection
Pin 5 (Q Output) is connected to pin 3 on the 14 pin IC
Pin 6 (Voltage Source)is connected to the output from the voltage regulator
Pin 7 (Oscillator) is connected to the signal relay and the wires coming from the sensor coil at the cup.
Pin 8 (Hysteresis) is connected to the variable pot from pin 2.
The 14 pin IC is probably just another switch for the LED and the fan. I'll trace that next.
Thanks for the input, both of you. I am tracing the pins from the 8 pin SMD and from the 14 pin IC that controls the LED and the fan.
At a quick glance, it looks possible that SMD is a knockoff of the TCA305 as Stardustsailor said. Here is a quick description of where each pin goes. It's a quick glance so something may not be 100% correct. I'll try to confirm.
Pin 1 (GND) goes to ground.
Pin 2 (Distance) goes to the Variable Pot and then back into pin 8 (Hysteresis).
Pin 3 (Integrating Capacitance) has a small cap connected to ground.
Pin 4 (Q bar Output) is No Connection
Pin 5 (Q Output) is connected to pin 3 on the 14 pin IC
Pin 6 (Voltage Source)is connected to the output from the voltage regulator
Pin 7 (Oscillator) is connected to the signal relay and the wires coming from the sensor coil at the cup.
Pin 8 (Hysteresis) is connected to the variable pot from pin 2.
The 14 pin IC is probably just another switch for the LED and the fan. I'll trace that next.
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Hackerman
User
This failure could be my fault. I have had all my units apart and I have added plugs and messed with them all.
Plus, we could be driving these units way beyond their intended design. If you place a small item like a wax knife in the cup, it heats to incredibly hot in the couples seconds of a single cycle. We run our VapCaps though all 5 or 6 cycles to get it hot. If you were actually using this to heat a steel knife for wax, the 1 or 2 second single cycle would be way more than enough.
With that said, my problem is more with the circuit design than the quality of the build build.
I did not finish my EE so I am reaching on a few of these points but on the output pin that controls the signal relay to turn the induction heater on or off, the circuit uses the Q output instead of the Q bar output. One is default high and one is default low (on or off). I believe this unit was designed with the default failing to 'ON'.
The manner in which my unit failed could be very dangerous. When the unit is turned on, the induction coil starts to heat immediately whether anything is in the cup or not. And, it continues to heat until the unit is powered off. I don't know if it has a safety on it or how hot it would get. I noticed it pretty quickly and powered the unit off and took it apart to inspect it.
So, again, I am reaching but it appears that if the switch or the relay fail, the unit is 'ON' rather than 'OFF' as the default. Always power off your unit when not in use.
Before we bash the circuit designer, maybe an EE will chime in to verify or correct me.
I have to take the dog to the vet and a bunch of other stuff today but I'll try to trace the 14 pin chip later.
Oddly enough, the pins on the 14 pin IC are following the pattern on the TCA305 (similar IC as the TCA355 in a different package).
EDIT: Another question for the EE if we get lucky enough to find one. Am I correct in saying that the duration that the fan runs after the circuit if off is determined by the drain on that adjacent capacitor?
Plus, we could be driving these units way beyond their intended design. If you place a small item like a wax knife in the cup, it heats to incredibly hot in the couples seconds of a single cycle. We run our VapCaps though all 5 or 6 cycles to get it hot. If you were actually using this to heat a steel knife for wax, the 1 or 2 second single cycle would be way more than enough.
With that said, my problem is more with the circuit design than the quality of the build build.
I did not finish my EE so I am reaching on a few of these points but on the output pin that controls the signal relay to turn the induction heater on or off, the circuit uses the Q output instead of the Q bar output. One is default high and one is default low (on or off). I believe this unit was designed with the default failing to 'ON'.
The manner in which my unit failed could be very dangerous. When the unit is turned on, the induction coil starts to heat immediately whether anything is in the cup or not. And, it continues to heat until the unit is powered off. I don't know if it has a safety on it or how hot it would get. I noticed it pretty quickly and powered the unit off and took it apart to inspect it.
So, again, I am reaching but it appears that if the switch or the relay fail, the unit is 'ON' rather than 'OFF' as the default. Always power off your unit when not in use.
Before we bash the circuit designer, maybe an EE will chime in to verify or correct me.
I have to take the dog to the vet and a bunch of other stuff today but I'll try to trace the 14 pin chip later.
Oddly enough, the pins on the 14 pin IC are following the pattern on the TCA305 (similar IC as the TCA355 in a different package).
EDIT: Another question for the EE if we get lucky enough to find one. Am I correct in saying that the duration that the fan runs after the circuit if off is determined by the drain on that adjacent capacitor?
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It seems that indeed is a no-name-cheaper-than-shit-chinese-copy of the Siemens TCA 355G.
Your description of he circuit matches the typical application circuit of the IC :
The Q and Q_BAR are transistor inverted outputs.When Q is high ,
then Q_Bar is low and vice versa .
Can you post the inscription of the 14 pin IC ?
If by top hat you mean the plastic cup that comes with the device and inserts into the heater, I left mine in place.
With the adjustment I mentioned, my IH works as I would wish it to.
BTW ,here's some useful links for a really high quality zero voltage switching Induction heater parts :
https://www.rmcybernetics.com/shop/cyber-circuits/induction-heater-circuit
https://www.rmcybernetics.com/shop/.../coils-and-transformers/induction-heater-coil
https://www.rmcybernetics.com/shop/cyber-circuits/induction-heater-circuit
https://www.rmcybernetics.com/shop/.../coils-and-transformers/induction-heater-coil
I have fixed a few items the same way over the years myself.
I have no interest in buying another unit since this one works pretty well for me, so I'm gonna ignore all the EE talk xD
@Hackerman and anyone else, have you looked further into replacing the fan? I don't care about the noise, I just want this thing to get me a consistent click before it enters the cool-down cycle (repeated yellow until vapcap is removed)
@Hackerman and anyone else, have you looked further into replacing the fan? I don't care about the noise, I just want this thing to get me a consistent click before it enters the cool-down cycle (repeated yellow until vapcap is removed)
Ricardo
Well-Known Member
@JigMelon I don't know if you're an electronics wizard like some of these boffins, but it's no great hardship (for me at least) to remove and immediately reinsert the Vapcap in order to get to the Click (and a couple of seconds more).
I think it's a miracle that this thing works at all! I'm lovin' it
I think it's a miracle that this thing works at all! I'm lovin' it
I am finding the click before the end of the heat cycle since inserting the cork spacer to lift the load a bit, unless it is cold in my workshop first thing, then I might have to reinsert.
Yes.It can be a stuck relay ( contacts have fused together ) ,or a faulty transistor ( Q1 or Q2 at the pcb ) or a fried input at that weird 14 pin IC or the output of the TCA355G -clone remains stuck at
HIGH for some reason -could be the sensor sub-circuit or the 355G itself having issues .
As for the fan operating after the IH circuit is OFF ,if it's a cap that is draining it has to be a large
( > 1000uF ) electrolytic cap .Otherwise the fan operation maybe controlled by that mysterous 14 pin IC ( by a delay sub-circuit from the IC ).
Not only I was unable to find what kind of IC this is ,but the logo of the maker is totally alien .
As for the timing of the cycle .That mysterious IC is controlling the cycle.
IF the cycle control is time -based :
Most probably a RC ( resistor-capacitor ) timing configuration is somewhere close by the
mysterious 14-pin IC .
Search for a resistor that is connected directly to a pin of that mysterious IC .
After the resistor a cap will follow ,with it's second pin brought to ground .
( pin of IC <=> resistor <=> capacitor ( usually a solid and not an electrolytic ) <=> ground )
Shown at the pic , C8 and R9 seem to be such a timing RC config.
still,altering the cap or the resistor of such timing circuit,
may cause the unit to overload or the induction coil to be
overheated with the isolation melting or even the coil copper wire also melting .
Ricardo
Well-Known Member
@LesPlenty I find I need 7 IH clicks to get to my VapCap double click starting from cold - subsequent cycles fit in with the IH 5 click mode, but depending on the strain, I generally push it two IH clicks for extra oomph. That said, sometimes I'll hit it from cold after the first IH cycle, just for flavour. Also, remember that no two caps are exactly alike.
Egzoset
Banned
Salutations HackerMan,
Remember this?
The funny thing is that « Vape like a BOSS » was the slogan of 2 NASA guys, who i'd assume to have all the "E"s it takes to work there. Yet their Herbalizer somehow bite the dust in 2015, if i'm not mistaking.
Anyway it's not too difficult to translate a set of pictures into some electronics schematic that can be "read" even by non-engineers. Not to mention a real one would certainly charge for his time... So, IMO those who i'd specially welcome, under the circumstances, might belong to the world of amateur radio instead, of modelists, etc., and probably a few more that won't come to mind spontaneously as i type - just because right now my head hurts i guess...
How could this happen since it's supposed to be a "wireless" (inductive) proximity detector!?...
Item #2 makes a lot of sense and i warned about that specifically. More Joules ain't the solution but do not loose hope as there IS a way out: e.g. "do more with less" (Joules), essentially!
Piece of cake, focus on the VapCap energy requirements, which implies weight of the interacting metal. Then once "parasitics" are removed try to trim down its Heat Exchanger core, if possible at all, or beware of excessive inductance eventually leading to some catastrophic failure(s) mode(s) involving an over-voltage condition, for example. Etc.
In any case i'm most confident that injection of a hundred Joules in a 0.75 g (IH) susceptor ain't even a challenge. Not to mention it's been done before, just not yet...
Good day, have fun!!
Remember this?
The funny thing is that « Vape like a BOSS » was the slogan of 2 NASA guys, who i'd assume to have all the "E"s it takes to work there. Yet their Herbalizer somehow bite the dust in 2015, if i'm not mistaking.
Anyway it's not too difficult to translate a set of pictures into some electronics schematic that can be "read" even by non-engineers. Not to mention a real one would certainly charge for his time... So, IMO those who i'd specially welcome, under the circumstances, might belong to the world of amateur radio instead, of modelists, etc., and probably a few more that won't come to mind spontaneously as i type - just because right now my head hurts i guess...
How could this happen since it's supposed to be a "wireless" (inductive) proximity detector!?...
Item #2 makes a lot of sense and i warned about that specifically. More Joules ain't the solution but do not loose hope as there IS a way out: e.g. "do more with less" (Joules), essentially!
Piece of cake, focus on the VapCap energy requirements, which implies weight of the interacting metal. Then once "parasitics" are removed try to trim down its Heat Exchanger core, if possible at all, or beware of excessive inductance eventually leading to some catastrophic failure(s) mode(s) involving an over-voltage condition, for example. Etc.
In any case i'm most confident that injection of a hundred Joules in a 0.75 g (IH) susceptor ain't even a challenge. Not to mention it's been done before, just not yet...
Good day, have fun!!