BigJr48
Well-Known Member
Remember dotleaf
The 510 Dry herb atomizers thread
- Thread starter XpeeN
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- 510 atomizer
XpeeN
Well-Known Member
Interesting, I wonder if there are models that supports dual coils, also, it seems that you'll have to take the deck off every time you load a bowl, it's not the most convenient way to load but it might worth it to gain that form factor.
Mribisback_
Well-Known Member
I still want one of those actually, lol. Love the form factor.
Mribisback_
Well-Known Member
Ok about to cop one of these Smoant Knight 80s. $25 on Element Vape right now. There is an rba tank available that should work well.
TCR ✓
Replaceable battery✓
I'm gonna replace the plastic tank with a wood one I will make.
great idea, what did you change inside though? or did you just add a screen and the MP?
that piece under the atomizer is used to disperse the heat? did you buy it separately?
Mribisback_
Well-Known Member
Here's a demo of my convection dotleaf
Mribisback_
Well-Known Member
Bumping Spheda
Well-Known Member
I made a 510 herb vape. It's a reimagining of the Tetra X by Lamart. I call it the Octo X because 8 coils.
Pics.
Pics.
Vapemaster_s
New Member
so cool ,bro ,I like the mechanical feel
Mribisback_
Well-Known Member
Mribisback_
Well-Known Member
Pretty happy with the way this imp body turned out. I found a good technique for putting o-rings on mouthpieces.
Bumping Spheda
Well-Known Member
I built one on top of an Aqua Reboot. Another off of a Divine Tribe Gen 2 DC. And then even another off of a Yep Rebuildable Dripping Atomizer Clone. Any deck that has surface area to grab onto for any reasonable thickness (by the wood) should suffice.
Orljo
Well-Known Member
I didn't know this thread is a thing, my attempt is really basic in comparison. I used a normal drill and a dremel to build this. It works quite well, I use a basket screen as a bowl.
I really want to try out some other approaches after seeing this thread.
I really want to try out some other approaches after seeing this thread.
XpeeN
Well-Known Member
That's a nice start, although I'm not sure this coil design will give you the best results. Think more about utilizing the air and make it travel as long as possible between the coils\mesh. A good example is a rbt splinter heater. Also, a friendly advise, if it's a SS mesh, don't make it glow that hard (for health related reasons), a faint glow should be more than enough for a good heater.
XpeeN
Well-Known Member
Hi guys, long time no see 
I experienced a bit with coils with my glow and figure out it's better to discuss it here than at the glow's thread as it relevant to the traditional ecig coils based 510 DHVs. I had 3 major setups (5 wraps each coil for all of them):
1) Plain 20ga 316L coils
It worked nice and all but the cold ohm was too low and I found didn't have quite the range (cold was 0.089 and below glow limit was 0.116 (29 "points" )if I recall correctly, compared to 0.124 and 0.161 (37 "points") at more recent build, and to 0.338 and 0.440 (102 "points") at coils setup that I ditched because of another reason). I talked a bit more about the theory at the glow's thread if someone interested.
2) 28ga Clapton twisted (Discussed at glow's thread too).
The point was to increase the "vertical" surface area that the air would pass near while drawing. It worked well but it had 2 problems:
3) Following this train of thought, I twisted myself a 3*26ga 316L wire that I had around, I would've try lower gauge but the next lower step I have is 20 and it might be too hard to twist?
It works well too, 0.124 cold with 0.161 as limit at 139TCR. It has a nice range (I start seeing a bit of visible vapor around 160-170C when it "maxed out" at 230C again), which allows either nice temp stepping or a quick few hits at max temp.
What coils do you find that works best for you (not limited to traditional ecig coils)?
I wonder how to continue my journey. I really liked the clapton twisted style as it increase the surface area significantly, but as mentioned above the ~22mm deck is too small for the specific setup I have. I also wonder where the diminishing returns' point begins, where it becomes useless to increase said surface area (idk even if I reach that point or not)? as I think there is the temp limit of the coil itself, so if for example the air reaches this temp at 2/3 of it's way through the coil, we keep heating for no additional benefit?
I experienced a bit with coils with my glow and figure out it's better to discuss it here than at the glow's thread as it relevant to the traditional ecig coils based 510 DHVs. I had 3 major setups (5 wraps each coil for all of them):
1) Plain 20ga 316L coils
It worked nice and all but the cold ohm was too low and I found didn't have quite the range (cold was 0.089 and below glow limit was 0.116 (29 "points" )if I recall correctly, compared to 0.124 and 0.161 (37 "points") at more recent build, and to 0.338 and 0.440 (102 "points") at coils setup that I ditched because of another reason). I talked a bit more about the theory at the glow's thread if someone interested.
2) 28ga Clapton twisted (Discussed at glow's thread too).
The point was to increase the "vertical" surface area that the air would pass near while drawing. It worked well but it had 2 problems:
- The setup was just a bit too wide, and left mark on my cover
- The coils weren't stiff enough, so because of point 1, there was barely any space between the closer legs of each coils, so after a couple of time of short coil between usage (probably put it on the table and it moved? I can't recall really) I had enough.
3) Following this train of thought, I twisted myself a 3*26ga 316L wire that I had around, I would've try lower gauge but the next lower step I have is 20 and it might be too hard to twist?
It works well too, 0.124 cold with 0.161 as limit at 139TCR. It has a nice range (I start seeing a bit of visible vapor around 160-170C when it "maxed out" at 230C again), which allows either nice temp stepping or a quick few hits at max temp.
What coils do you find that works best for you (not limited to traditional ecig coils)?
I wonder how to continue my journey. I really liked the clapton twisted style as it increase the surface area significantly, but as mentioned above the ~22mm deck is too small for the specific setup I have. I also wonder where the diminishing returns' point begins, where it becomes useless to increase said surface area (idk even if I reach that point or not)? as I think there is the temp limit of the coil itself, so if for example the air reaches this temp at 2/3 of it's way through the coil, we keep heating for no additional benefit?
Fesob_31
Well-Known Member
Highest thermal exchange surface, lowest mass possible, cold resistance in the optimal window (0,15-0,20 to 0,5-0,7 ohm), widest variance of coil resistance achievable in the working temperatures window.
With new coils I like to start in power mode, find where the best extraction is, note live resistance and W required for that, then focus on resistance control (temperature control) and adjust TCR and PID accordingly.
With new coils I like to start in power mode, find where the best extraction is, note live resistance and W required for that, then focus on resistance control (temperature control) and adjust TCR and PID accordingly.
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XpeeN
Well-Known Member
Exactly. For now I'm pursuing after the best wire roll which I can twist myself to increase the thermal exchange surface (TES), while not widening the coil too much to not fit the deck, and also make sure it's stiff enough to not move around unnecessarily, so I guess there's a minimum mass for my needs.
Thinking about improving Clapton twisted coils experience I think about lower core gauge wire wrapped (26, 24 even?) Wrapped with a >32 gauge wire (as the Clapton twisted I own is 28*32+28*32). The next common gauge is 38 if I'm not mistaken, but I'm not sure how it'll affect the TES really and if it's worth it over plain SS twisted coils. So I guess the next step is figuring out the plain ss twisted vs Clapton twisted.
Seek
Apprentice Daydreamer
Fesob_31: That doesn't look like it would fit into the musa vape, the coils should be in the ceter, not above the screws, thats's where thew space for the coil is, when you put that wood back, it's going to smush/bend the coils down and short them. You should do something like my spiral that i posted, but just be very careful and mindful of the limited space there is for the coil, i know i have problems with it sometimes. The coil should not be touching anything at all when you put the wood cver back on it. Also I don't see how the current would even flow thought there, it doesn't seem to be connected right from one side to the other, it just seems the coils are just conncted to the same junction. So when you put on a battery it would tell you there is no atomizer.
And to anyone else who would get inspired by my modding tutorial below - you REALLY have to know what you are doing and acknowledge that you are doing it at your own risk and that making a coil for musa is really hard and tricky, you really have to know ohw electricity works and have some good handyman skills. You could break your vape, and you would then bother musa with support and blame it on me that i inspired you...
It might look easty at first glance, but making your own coil for musa is extremely hard to design and do, you have to think of many things to make it right, be careful that it doesn't touch anything, doesn't short itself etc, and basically probably perfectly copy my design. My own coil mod took me hours and days to get it right. And I broke mthose 2 black base o-ring doing all these iteration from wrear and tear of disassembling it so many times.
Here I'm reposting my custom SS coil DNA mod tutorial, so that it comes with all these warning that i worte above:
If you want the smoothest safest best performance you should power your Musa 510 with a DNA mod, and create a special Musa TCR curve. That will give you great temp control for your Musa 510. It's not precise or accurate (because of the musa simplicity and because of the hacky way that TCR is designed), but it's dependable. You can set your desired temperature between 200-315. It's not the real temperature, but if you tune it correctly than 200 will be just not hot enough to vape it, 250 would be like low temp vaping, 300 would be like hightemp vaping. You press the button, wait 1 sec, start inhaling, release the button about 3-5 seconds before you stop inhaling, and you get a good hit. And it will never acidentally combust, unless you set up the TCR curve or ohms wrong.
You will need to make your own stainless stell coil, because the default coil is nicrome which doesn't support TC.
These are some examples of my TCR curves, so you can get the idea how to do it. It's for stainless steel coils. The curves are increasigly more hot. They are tuned for my coil so you will have to figurew out how high you make the step yourself. For example Musa0 material is the coldest, Musa3 is the hottest, that means that for example Musa0's 300°C setting would target a colder temp than Musa3's 300°C setting.
Also if you like my DNA theme design with that cute face mode that you can see on my previous post up there, you can download it here.
The battery mod in that photo is Lost Vape Thelema Solo 100W DNA with wooden style, I think that is the best match for Musa in both aesthetics and practicality.
Here are the pictures of my journey, my earrly coils as I've iterated the design and coil materials, I'm currecnlty using that final double twisted coil., and man that one is REEEEALY hard to avoid all of the shorts and gets it crammed into that little space, it really has to be percfectly centered or it will touch something:
And here is a picture of my TCR curves, again, you will have tou make and fine tune youw curves based on your material and resistance and coil design, it could be very different from mine, but if it's SS, it shoul look similar, just at a different level on the right side:
And here it is fully assembled on top of my Thelema in its full glory:
And to anyone else who would get inspired by my modding tutorial below - you REALLY have to know what you are doing and acknowledge that you are doing it at your own risk and that making a coil for musa is really hard and tricky, you really have to know ohw electricity works and have some good handyman skills. You could break your vape, and you would then bother musa with support and blame it on me that i inspired you...
It might look easty at first glance, but making your own coil for musa is extremely hard to design and do, you have to think of many things to make it right, be careful that it doesn't touch anything, doesn't short itself etc, and basically probably perfectly copy my design. My own coil mod took me hours and days to get it right. And I broke mthose 2 black base o-ring doing all these iteration from wrear and tear of disassembling it so many times.
Here I'm reposting my custom SS coil DNA mod tutorial, so that it comes with all these warning that i worte above:
If you want the smoothest safest best performance you should power your Musa 510 with a DNA mod, and create a special Musa TCR curve. That will give you great temp control for your Musa 510. It's not precise or accurate (because of the musa simplicity and because of the hacky way that TCR is designed), but it's dependable. You can set your desired temperature between 200-315. It's not the real temperature, but if you tune it correctly than 200 will be just not hot enough to vape it, 250 would be like low temp vaping, 300 would be like hightemp vaping. You press the button, wait 1 sec, start inhaling, release the button about 3-5 seconds before you stop inhaling, and you get a good hit. And it will never acidentally combust, unless you set up the TCR curve or ohms wrong.
You will need to make your own stainless stell coil, because the default coil is nicrome which doesn't support TC.
These are some examples of my TCR curves, so you can get the idea how to do it. It's for stainless steel coils. The curves are increasigly more hot. They are tuned for my coil so you will have to figurew out how high you make the step yourself. For example Musa0 material is the coldest, Musa3 is the hottest, that means that for example Musa0's 300°C setting would target a colder temp than Musa3's 300°C setting.
Also if you like my DNA theme design with that cute face mode that you can see on my previous post up there, you can download it here.
The battery mod in that photo is Lost Vape Thelema Solo 100W DNA with wooden style, I think that is the best match for Musa in both aesthetics and practicality.
Here are the pictures of my journey, my earrly coils as I've iterated the design and coil materials, I'm currecnlty using that final double twisted coil., and man that one is REEEEALY hard to avoid all of the shorts and gets it crammed into that little space, it really has to be percfectly centered or it will touch something:
And here is a picture of my TCR curves, again, you will have tou make and fine tune youw curves based on your material and resistance and coil design, it could be very different from mine, but if it's SS, it shoul look similar, just at a different level on the right side:
And here it is fully assembled on top of my Thelema in its full glory:
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Fesob_31
Well-Known Member
I am waiting for a Musa 510 since June 2021. That dual coil setup isn’t designed to work with the Musa 510 I don’t have. I have only used the same RDA to test Zirconium.
That dual coil setup is correctly connected, perfectly working, its cold resistance is 0,347 ohm and I have it working both with the DNA and AF mods.
The mod isn’t telling me “No atomizer”, it shows “No Musa”.
Fesob_31
Well-Known Member
These are TFR curves, each piece of the ”curve” with a different slope has a different TCR.
I don’t understand which one is the Material Musa0 or Musa 3, but the warmest curves is the one in the middle (400,1.403 - 600,1.500)
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Fesob_31
Well-Known Member
The hottest curve is the one in the middle.