The 2016 Presidential Candidates Thread

[CarolKing]

I do think Hillary wants power and control. I think I started thinking about that when she was First Lady. She came on too strong about universal healthcare. Folks were not ready at the time and it turned some folks away.

I think she used poor choices regarding her email server. It looks like her system could easily be hacked into. That I didn't hear off Fox News, it was CNN. With all the important correspondence regarding the Sec. Of State's office for the U.S it was a huge mistake. I hope right before the election we don't hear a major blunder attached to her email server.

Edit
@Snappo i love you buddy but I can't give you a like for the I may have to vote for Trump, ouch! Think of the party itself, not Hillary. See @Gunky, she even turns away the wise.

 

[cybrguy]

...with little more of this hokey pokey mind reading and Hilary fanatacism, and I may lean towards a Trump vote.

I'm not buyin it. Yer head is on too straight for that.

But keeping that in mind it really is good to imagine a bowl of at the top of this thread and grabbing one on the way in can only help...

 

[Snappo]

I do think Hillary wants power and control. I think I started thinking about that when she was First Lady. She came on too strong about universal healthcare. Folks were not ready at the time and it turned some folks away.

I think she used poor choices regarding her email server. It looks like her system could easily be hacked into. That I didn't hear off Fox News, it was CNN. With all the important correspondence regarding the Sec. Of State's office for the U.S it was a huge mistake. I hope right before the election we don't hear a major blunder attached to her email server.

Edit
@Snappo i love you buddy but I can't give you a like for the I may have to vote for Trump, ouch! Think of the party itself, not Hillary. See @Gunky, she even turns away the wise.

Please reread my post edit ;-)

 

[Adobewan]

The thing about this shit that makes me nervous is that none of it is new. Donald Trump has been Donald Trump forever, and he has been a sleazy negative operator the whole time. This audio is from, like 25 years ago. He has never been trustworthy or particularly moral or generous (with his own money, not others) or cooperative or a contribution to society in any discernible way other than moving money around. Yet he managed to win over the Republican base in a BIG way. One can say that the Republican base have been radicalized and are all extremists now, that all the "reasonable" Republicans have left the party and are calling themselves independents, but the sheer number of votes he got in the primaries has got to be cause for concern.
I still believe it is extremely unlikely that Donald Trump could be elected POTUS, but I no longer think it is impossible, and the idea that the decision could be in the hands of a confused and angry element of the Democratic electorate is not reassuring...

Paul Ryan said "Trump has received more primary votes than any republican in history AND the primary count isn't over yet." Ryan also said "Trump has brought in a demographic that hasn't been seen in many years."

This is F'n nuts!

It's looking entirely possible and yes, it's fuckin' nuts, but not so surprising.

The internet helps to unveil corruption in our system. No longer ok with the status quo robbing them, people, understandably, want to shatter this system.
Many who don't follow the nuances of the electoral college, delegates and super-delegates(The small bit of information they may get would only raise their frustration, "My vote doesn't count?") will likely vote from the gut, and they will likely vote for change.

Unfortunately, liked or disliked, qualified or unqualified, to some of the people who are bristling for a genuine shift, Hillary is seen as the "establishment", while Trump is the "outsider" and he has a black belt in self-promotion.
He can key into what the audience craves on a base level(I wonder if Mark "Apprentice", "Survivor" Burnett is at all involved with Trump's campaign). He's impervious to shame, regret, accountability, and empathy, empowering him to say whatever bullshit is needed to win that particular moment with 100% conviction.
It doesn't hurt that his "I don't give a shit! if I break a dish or two if it means finally getting the kitchen clean" attitude is music to to the ears of that voting demographic.

Like Bill Maher says, spread the word, this will not be a landslide.

 

[Gunky]

I do think Hillary wants power and control. I think I started thinking about that when she was First Lady. She came on too strong about universal healthcare. Folks were not ready at the time and it turned some folks away.

Are you listening to yourself? You are faulting Hillary as power-hungry harpy because she tried hard to deliver universal health care to the public? What a selfish bitch Hillary must be to want to help everybody get health care!

 

[cybrguy]

He's impervious to shame, regret, accountability, and empathy, empowering him to say whatever bullshit is needed to win that particular moment with 100% conviction.

And this is why he will lose. This is not what America wants, even pissed off America. Even if they can't see how that will hurt us domestically (many will), they know that the President is our face to the world, and few will want Donald to represent them. The trick of the whole campaign will be making sure everyone understands who Donald Trump really is and to show how he behaves under stress.
The Good news is that Donald is completely unable to not respond when criticized or in any way diminished. That gives away a powerful weapon against him...

 

[Snappo]

Is Hillary beyond reproach in any quest for power and exoneration that doesn't involve even some small measure of rule breaking? Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[Farid]

Here's the problem with writing off any criticism of Hillary as a product of Fox news/Republican propaganda. It's not true. All of the anti war people I know are very anti Hillary. When we voiced our criticism of Hillary for how she handled the invasion of Libya, Hillary supporters claimed we were the product of Republican propaganda. I don't know anybody who is less affected by Republican propaganda than the Anti War/Pro peace crowd (well maybe people in comas, and the severely disabled, who are not affected by any propoganda.)

 

[Gunky]

Is Hillary beyond reproach in any quest for power and exoneration that doesn't involve even some small measure of rule breaking? Inquiring minds want to know.

Is anybody beyond reproach? Let me know when you find someone like that. Bernie definitely does not qualify (and if you want evidence of that sign up for his campaign emails). The more important question is who are you gonna believe: Fox News psycho-analysing Hillary, or your lying eyes checking her record and her statements?

 

[Snappo]

@Gunky... thanks for validating my point... two or more wrong-doers don't make a right-doer.

 

[Farid]

Is anybody beyond reproach? Let me know when you find someone like that. Bernie definitely does not qualify (and if you want evidence of that sign up for his campaign emails). The more important question is who are you gonna believe: Fox News psycho-analysing Hillary, or your lying eyes checking her record and her statements?

If Snappo's got lying eyes, then so have I and so do you. Of course we all are influenced by our biases. But if we admit that then you must also admit that you too are biased towards Hillary just as "Bernie Bros" are biased towards Sanders.

 

[Gunky]

@Gunky... thanks for validating my point... two or more wrong-doers don't make a right-doer.

I am struggling to figure out what you meant by that. If you mean you don't want to vote for either Bernie or Hillary because they are both "wrong-doers", well being human involves making some mistakes. So doing the occasional wrong goes with the territory. That's a far cry from real evil-doers, like Trump.

 

[Snappo]

I am struggling to figure out what you meant by that. If you mean you don't want to vote for either Bernie or Hillary because they are both "wrong-doers", well being human involves making some mistakes. So doing the occasional wrong goes with the territory. That's a far cry from real evil-doers, like Trump.

Give us folks a break, huh... Hillary is no saint. Who is?

 

[Gunky]

Give us folks a break, huh... Hillay

This will probably be my last reply to you, as you are beginning to sound like an ass, but have you considered that the vast majority of posts in this thread are breathy, gushing worship of his sainted Bernie-ness of the sparrows? Why are you so upset by one guy supporting Hillary? If you disagree with something I say, then explain your disagreement on the substance. Right now you are just emoting and going after me personally.

 

[Snappo]

@Gunky... I have replied in plain simple self-explanotory English in defense of opinions that I have agreed with as is my right, and in opposition to opinions that I disagree with as is my right.

 

[CarolKing]

The only person that seems to be getting upset is you @Gunky. I wasn't going to post again this evening because everything that I said seem to get you more upset.

It was just posted yesterday that we all respect each other's opinion. I respect that you are going to prefer Hillary and that is your right. Its our right to decide who we want in a president. Maybe the rest of us will end up voting for Hillary. She is better than electing someone who wants to be the king of America.

 

[Stu]

Keep it civil guys. I've got no problems shutting down this thread if members start going after each other. My finger is on the ABV button, so if civility is not restored my finger is gonna twitch.

 

[Gunky]

The only person that seems to be getting upset is you @Gunky. I wasn't going to post again this evening because everything that I said seem to get you more upset.

I am not trying to pick on you. On the other hand you keep presenting a point of view which I find very perplexing. You say that it is your own opinion that Hillary is power-hungry and wants to serve herself and not the people. You deny that this could have come from the republican propaganda machine which has been pumping this stuff out for decades. They, by the way, are lying. They lied during the Clinton administration, they lied when she became a senator, lied when she was secretary of state, lied in congressional hearings, and they are still lying away to you now, today.

So do you know Hillary Clinton personally? Where are you getting your opinion from? How is it that you came by the notion that A)she is power-mad and B)she is only out for herself. Is this just a vague impression because you don't like her manner or looks or what? These are serious charges you are making - back them up. So far you have given no reason for this dislike that will withstand scrutiny. As I pointed out, the example you gave about Moynihan's senate seat was just wrong. I happen to know that because I was alive, adult, awake and reading the papers when it occurred. I have a decent memory. This is not a matter of me being upset, it is a matter of insisting on truth. Then you claimed she is power-mad because she tried to ram universal health-care down our throats decades ago. If that is the case is Bernie Sanders power-mad now, insisting on single-payer? How is it self-serving to help other people less fortunate than herself get health care? It doesn't make sense. In fact you are projecting your prejudice - she's power-mad - on every piece of evidence that comes along (no matter how badly it fits).

There is a famous story in Chinese classical literature that runs along these lines. A farmer loses some sort of farming implement and believes it was stolen by the neighbor's kid. And when the farmer looked at the kid - the way he walked said he stole it. His manner said he stole it. The way he talked, his every behavior shouted: he stole it! Then one day the farmer found the missing implement somewhere he had forgotten to look. And now when he again looked at the boy, he discovered that, funny, the boy's walk no longer said he had stolen it. His manner, the way he spoke, his every behavior somehow now no longer seemed to indicate in the least that the boy had stolen it. Nowadays it's called confirmation bias.

 

[lwien]

Just for the record, the more I see of Hillary the less I like her and believe me, that THAT has absolutely nothing to do with FOX NEWS propaganda. Four months ago I was an ardent Hillary supporter.

The scary thing is, is that I know that I am not alone. The big question is, will liberal dems like me just sit this one out in the general or will we vote for her anyway to keep Trump at bay. Will we leave her in favor of Bernie? I'm afraid that the more visible she becomes the less likely that she will win the general. I still don't think she will slide over the "LOSE" line but it is more than a bit disconcerting.

There's just something about her that irks me and I'm not quite sure what it is. I'm not talking about policy here but more in how she presents those policies.

And that email thing bugs the shit of me. I was very involved in the Intelligence Community and I can tell you that what she did as far as having a private server was wayyyyyyyyyy out of bounds. I don't think she broke any laws unless there's an anti-stupidity law somewhere. But........there SHOULD be a law that prohibits government officials conducting government business on a private server, regardless if that business is classified or not. Raises a big question in regards to her judgement. She should have known better, ESPECIALLY considering that she was Secretary of State. Hell, even I would have known better.

Edit: And @Gunky, please step away from the keyboard for a bit before you post. I really don't want to see this thread shut down, k?

 

[Gunky]

Just for the record, the more I see of Hillary the less I like her and believe me, that THAT has absolutely nothing to do with FOX NEWS propaganda. Four months ago I was an ardent Hillary supporter.

The scary thing is, is that I know that I am not alone. The big question is, will liberal dems like me just sit this one out in the general or will we vote for her anyway to keep Trump at bay. Will we leave her in favor of Bernie? I'm afraid that the more visible she becomes the less likely that she will win the general. I still don't think she will slide over the "LOSE" line but it is a bit disconcerting.

There's just something about her that irks me and I'm not quite sure what it is. I'm not talking about policy here but more in how she presents those policies.

And that email thing bugs the shit of me. I was very involved in the Intelligence community and I can tell you that what she did as far as having a private server was wayyyyyyyyyy out of bounds. I don't think she broke any laws unless there's an anti-stupidity law somewhere. But........there SHOULD be a law that prohibits government officials conducting business on a private server, regardless if that business is classified or not. Raises a big question in regards to her judgement

So your, uh, gut has informed you Hillary bad. Thanks for sharing. Let us know if you actually have anything concrete to report.

As to the emails. Once again, absurdly trivial matter. As far as the actual security of her setup, her servers were not hacked, but the State department servers she 'should have been using' were hacked. It was a poor choice because of the perception, not the security of the documents, which as it happened were mostly junk; she conducted virtually all of the real business using State Department cables and other systems. I used to be an IT systems guy. I am satisfied that the level of security she had on her servers was appropriate to the type of material in the emails - non classified.

 

[lwien]

So your, uh, gut has informed you Hillary bad. Thanks for sharing. Let us know if you actually have anything concrete to report.

I've said this many times before but it's worth repeating. A line from Schindlers list....."It's all in the presentation." and her presentations isn't sitting too well with me. I'm not taking about content here. I'm talking about how she presents that content and in elections, THAT is super important to get right.

 

[Adobewan]

And this is why he will lose. This is not what America wants, even pissed off America. Even if they can't see how that will hurt us domestically (many will), they know that the President is our face to the world, and few will want Donald to represent them. The trick of the whole campaign will be making sure everyone understands who Donald Trump really is and to show how he behaves under stress.
The Good news is that Donald is completely unable to not respond when criticized or in any way diminished. That gives away a powerful weapon against him...

@cybrguy I think you may be giving the people and system too much credit.
GW served two terms much to the dismay of many. Granted, there were the hanging chads, but how was the race so close as to allow the chads to be an issue and the FLA SC to step in?

 

[thisperson]

I can't believe you are posting this trash here! Yeah I looked at 21:31 and on for several minutes. Dubious characters saying unsubstantiated things. I went back to the beginning of the film and sure enough there are all those sterling republican characters from Fox news spewing their hatred for Hillary. You are looking for the truth from Ann Coulter et al? Give me a break. And no, I'm not watching any more of your clips. Fool me once...

Aww c'mon, Why is everything I posted fox propaganda. I don't even watch fox. I had heard of the Hillary/women scandal and decided to look deeper into it. That second video I thought was pretty solid. The man talks about interviewing 27-some-odd women who had personal contact with the Clintons, specifically Bill. I feel like you're putting your head in the ground. Why shouldn't those 27 women be believed?

 

[lwien]

Just a personal observation but I think that ANYONE who doesn't look at their candidate of choice with a critical eye and able to openly acknowledge their faults as well as how those faults could negatively affect their performance as President has truly drunk the kool-aid and this holds true regardless if your candidate of choice is Trump, Bernie or Hillary.

 

[Amoreena]

... the more I see of Hillary the less I like her ...

My husband has begun to find her voice harsh and grating...doesn't like it though he'll still vote for her. IMO, male candidates sound harsh/grating often and nobody criticizes.