The 2016 Presidential Candidates Thread
- Thread starter CarolKing
- Start date
Gunky
Well-Known Member
You see this is really just repetition of rumor. Let's not like her because, um, she has a reputation of people not liking her. Give her the benefit of the doubt once in a while. Maybe don't repeat rumors? Baseless innuendo? Criticize her appearance?
Consider the idea of judging her for what she has done and what she says she wants to do.
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CarolKing
Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
Back in the 90s not really sure why folks disliked Hillary? Maybe it was because she was going to fix healthcare in America. People didn't really know her and they were afraid of something new. Changing healthcare the way we know it? That was before all our premiums went through the roof. Now folks have had time to get used to the idea and see that the way things are isn't going to work for the future.
Back in the 90s my healthcare premium was all paid by my employer. Now the the premiums are more, I pay a couple hundred dollars a month. If I were to get my health insurance on my own the type of medical I have would be $1100. per month. Back in the mid 90s it would have been $400. My insurance has more than doubled. People are in a different place now, some are ready for universal healthcare.
Edit
I guess the reason I preferred Bernie Sanders to Hillary was because he seemed to be in it for the people. Hillary on the other hand seemed to want power and control and trying for the presidency because she was in it for herself. I like Bernie's ideas and hope that Hillary can adopt some of them, not all.
When she decided to be a senator in NY I figured it was a stepping stone for the presidency not to help the folks of NY. Why not Arkansas? That was where they lived before going to the White House. A senator would be more notable from NY than one from Arkansas.
I get the feeling when Hillary is speaking she's speaking at me not to me. I will support her for president because Bernie may not make it. The super delegates pose a problem. She's winning the big states with more delegates too. At this point I just want the democrats to win.
Come Election Day I don't want Bernie Sanders supporters writing in his name if Hillary is the nominee because that would be a wasted vote.
Back in the 90s my healthcare premium was all paid by my employer. Now the the premiums are more, I pay a couple hundred dollars a month. If I were to get my health insurance on my own the type of medical I have would be $1100. per month. Back in the mid 90s it would have been $400. My insurance has more than doubled. People are in a different place now, some are ready for universal healthcare.
Edit
I guess the reason I preferred Bernie Sanders to Hillary was because he seemed to be in it for the people. Hillary on the other hand seemed to want power and control and trying for the presidency because she was in it for herself. I like Bernie's ideas and hope that Hillary can adopt some of them, not all.
When she decided to be a senator in NY I figured it was a stepping stone for the presidency not to help the folks of NY. Why not Arkansas? That was where they lived before going to the White House. A senator would be more notable from NY than one from Arkansas.
I get the feeling when Hillary is speaking she's speaking at me not to me. I will support her for president because Bernie may not make it. The super delegates pose a problem. She's winning the big states with more delegates too. At this point I just want the democrats to win.
Come Election Day I don't want Bernie Sanders supporters writing in his name if Hillary is the nominee because that would be a wasted vote.
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Maitri
Deadhead, Low-Temp Dabber, Mahayana Buddhist
I hate to say it, but is it possible that part of the reason folks disliked Hillary is simply because they mindlessly assign her the female gender? I sure hope not but it seems to me that she would be accepted and respected by our society a whole lot more if she were mindlessly assigned to the male gender.
Yeah, those were the good old days... I recently celebrated the nine year anniversary of my being cancer free. As much as I would love single payer/universal insurance, I am so grateful for Obamacare. Before that, no one would insure me because they required me to be cancer free for two years and they defined "cancer free" as meaning no post cancer checkups whatsoever. I am grateful for what Obamacare has given so many people and I am so excited about the day we have universal healthcare because that day will come. It is simply a matter of time.
Gunky
Well-Known Member
I hate to say it, but is it possible that part of the reason folks disliked Hillary is simply because they mindlessly assign her the female gender? I sure hope not but it seems to me that she would be accepted and respected by our society a whole lot more if she were mindlessly assigned to the male gender.
-snip-
There is a lot to that. Bernie Sanders shouts his speeches. I mean really, really shouts and thumps the podium. Have you ever heard anyone mention that? Nope. But if Hillary Clinton loudly proclaims something from the podium... she becomes a harsh female who shouts. Donald Trump shouts. Every candidate except maybe Jeb shouted at rallies. Clinton alone gets notice for raising her voice. OMG, she's not a demure little lady! You know, the type who bakes cookies and is a good hostess?
How anyone can say Hillary became a senator as a stepping stone to the presidency is beyond me. What a howling misconception! Clinton only became senator because the seat opened up - Moynihan was retiring - and various figures in the party were sought to replace him. If I remember right Clinton's name was first bruited about for the Senate seat by some talking head on TV. Clinton, who had recently bought a house in NY state, wasn't looking to run for the seat - other people suggested her name and she thought about it for a while and decided to run. She literally learned she was being suggested for the spot while watching TV! Only on Fox news would you hear this history interpreted as @Carol King suggests above. Be aware, Carol, that your version of events is simply not true; it is a bogus account received from Hillary hating critics.
Once again it has to be said that the entire notion of ambition among men for high office is considered a good. But if a woman is ambitious she runs counter to traditional type and therefore becomes a scheming bitch. I am a feminist and don't buy it. Of course she is ambitious; you don't run for president of the United States if you lack ambition.
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Adobewan
Well-Known Member
I don't think there is any of this vitriol toward Elizabeth Warren.I hate to say it, but is it possible that part of the reason folks disliked Hillary is simply because they mindlessly assign her the female gender? I sure hope not but it seems to me that she would be accepted and respected by our society a whole lot more if she were mindlessly assigned to the male gender.
Congratulations @Maitri ! Happy Nine Years!!Yeah, those were the good old days... I recently celebrated the nine year anniversary of my being cancer free. As much as I would love single payer/universal insurance, I am so grateful for Obamacare...
Again, I don't think Hillary is unliked because she's a woman, but it makes one wonder why someone who is so qualified, so ready for the office, so electable,.. is so unliked.
Gunky
Well-Known Member
Possibly the fact that more lies have been told about her than anyone else in politics today might have something to do with it... Before the election process began her polled negatives were much lower.
Hey, if you are going to quote my posts and edit them, make it look like you edited. Don't just add some dots in between passages that were originally far apart and make it look like that is the same sentence. You have misquoted me and I'll thank you to go back and delete it or fix it. That is a serious no-no.
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CarolKing
Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
@Gunky that was my opinion that I shared about my view on Hillary. I said, "I figured" that was my opinion. Maybe it's Hillary's personality I don't like, that would be my fault not hers. It seems like a lot of other folks don't like her either. I will vote for her because the alternative would be BAD if she turns out to be the democrats nominee.
Gunky, you remember very small details regarding Hillary Clinton. You have a great memory my friend.
I also apologize for making fun of Hillary's jacket. I don't watch Fox News for the most part. The opinion was mine and I came up with it all by myself. I think a woman president would be great. I was hoping Elizbeth Warren would have run. I think she didn't because she wanted to let Hillary have her turn. Another just my opinion no one else's.
Gunky, you remember very small details regarding Hillary Clinton. You have a great memory my friend.
I also apologize for making fun of Hillary's jacket. I don't watch Fox News for the most part. The opinion was mine and I came up with it all by myself. I think a woman president would be great. I was hoping Elizbeth Warren would have run. I think she didn't because she wanted to let Hillary have her turn. Another just my opinion no one else's.
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thisperson
Ruler of all things person
I don't think you know Hillary's character. She investigated and intimidated the women that Bill did something to.
In case it's not working, fast forward to 21:31 to see what I'm talking about.
And see this for more about the subject. Start at 4:54...make it to 8:50 at least.
Edit: I mean sure you can look at it like the other things I've posted. As just lies told by the media. But I'd believe an average American over most politicians. Plus as Katt Williams says, "if they say you been smoking crack for 10 years, you are smoking crack." Bill is a sexual molester, he's had too many scandals like Bill Cosby and he even settled some of them. Meaning he paid them off to not sue. And what Hillary did during that time gives insight into her character.
You've posted points for why Hillary started off wanting good things. You've even had me doubt my belief that she could be all that bad. But then I just remind myself that she has received the largest sum of money from wall st this election and that I don't want another arm of Goldman Sachs on the federal reserve. She would be a continuation of politics as usual and I really feel we can't afford that. If we continue I think the world will be at our doorstep.
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His_Highness
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king
Maybe I missed the half-turn Hillary made to 'Medicare for All' in her recent debates where all I heard from her was... she was for enhancing ObamaCare and not starting over. I took the article I referenced to mean she was now more open to moving closer to Medicare for All by considering it for more demographics. I'm concentrating on what she has touted in her recent debates. Not what she stood for in the past.
I have not hidden my belief that Obamacare should be scrapped and we should make Single Payer the fight worth having. Before this gets out of hand again...Please don't misunderstand....there is goodness in Obamacare for things like eliminating pre-existing condition exclusions, allowing children to remain on their parents plan longer and making healthcare financially possible for low income families. That goodness doesn't go away with Single Payer. Unfortunately 'the majority' are now paying way more for way less coverage, the health insurance companies are still running the show (or not attending the show which is basically allowing them to cherry pick the healthy folks they want to insure directly) and the expectation is that the premiums and deductibles are going to go even higher again in 2017. Not to mention those who are now covered, newly or otherwise, but still can't afford to use and pay for the healthcare they need because of 5 figure deductibles. This ain't working folks and it's just a matter of time before the ACA breaks on it's own and the republicans will shout a big ol' I told you so....which will make Single Payer even harder to make happen with that kind of history/ammunition.
I stand by the idea that Bernie's policy messages have been so well received that even if he does not win the primary...the message WILL and IS being taken seriously causing the Bernie-Policy-Ball to get moved up the field.
BD9
Well-Known Member
I couldn't agree more with this. Now it seems that Democratic leaders are 'telling', not asking, the Sanders campaign to end their run.
In my opinion, they're asking the wrong candidate to drop out. My views are not based on Hillary being a woman, they are based on what I've heard and seen from Hillary. Too much baggage. Too much flip flopping. Pandering. Pandering. Pandering.
I think the candidate that would have been unbeatable is Elizabeth Warren. I wish she would have run. No baggage. Honest. Tells it like it is. Doesn't back down from a fight.
Because of the people like Wasserman-Schultz the deck was stacked against another candidate since 2015. Even so, I'll hold my nose and still vote for Hillary.
Elizabeth Warren 2020!
cybrguy
Putin is a War Criminal
Oh give me a fucking break. Does Donald Trump REALLY believe that everyone in the world is stupid except for him?
Yes, Donald, It IS you and we all know that it's you...
--------------------------
‘It was not me’: Donald Trump denies being own publicist in surreal audio recording from 1991
Colin Campbell
Deputy Politics Editor
May 13, 2016
Donald Trump bristled during a Friday interview when he was asked about a recently unearthed audio recording of him allegedly discussing his own love life in third-person.
“It was not me on the phone. It was not me on the phone,” the presumptive Republican presidential nominee said on the “Today” show, dismissing the line of questioning as “low” and unimportant.
Earlier Friday, the Washington Post published a surreal, 14-minute phone call from 1991 between a man who said his name was John Miller — and who sounds like Trump — discussing Trump’s dating life.
“He gets called by everybody in the book in terms of women,” the man says in the recording, which was with Sue Carswell, a reporter at People magazine.
“Actresses, people that you write about, just call to see if they can go out with him,” he soon adds.
Trump, a real estate scion, was frequently covered by New York’s tabloids in the 1980s and 1990s, years before he burst on to the national scene as the star of “The Apprentice.”
He is widely described as having used two alter egos — “John Miller” and “John Barron” — in order to be his own publicist. At the time, Carswell reported that both New York Post columnist Cindy Adams and Marla Maples, Trump’s second wife who is discussed in the phone call, identified the voice in the recording as Trump’s.
“Astoundingly, and sadly, the most telling response came from Marla Maples herself,” Carswell wrote for People in 1991. “After she listened to a fragment and identified Trump, she was flabbergasted. It was the first time she had heard him publicly declare the relationship over.”
Donald Trump in 1991. (Photo: Ron Galella/WireImage/Getty Images)
But on Friday morning, Trump said the recording was a “scam.”
“I don’t know anything about it,” he said on “Today.”
“You’re telling me about it for the first time,” the mogul continued. “And it doesn’t sound like my voice at all. I have many, many people that are trying to imitate my voice. And you can imagine that. And this sounds like one of the scams.”
Anchor Savannah Guthrie continued to press Trump on the topic.
“The Post says that you acknowledged a couple decades ago that in fact that was you. But it was a joke,” she told him.
“I don’t think it was me. It doesn’t sound like me. I don’t know even what they’re talking about,” Trump replied.
Trump, asked about the recording a couple more times, criticized the questions and asked to move on to other topics.
“Wow. You mean you’re going so low as to talk about something that took place 25 years ago about whether or not I made a phone call?” he pushed ‘’back. “Let’s get on to more current subjects,” he added.
Yes, Donald, It IS you and we all know that it's you...
--------------------------
‘It was not me’: Donald Trump denies being own publicist in surreal audio recording from 1991
Colin Campbell
Deputy Politics Editor
May 13, 2016
Donald Trump bristled during a Friday interview when he was asked about a recently unearthed audio recording of him allegedly discussing his own love life in third-person.
“It was not me on the phone. It was not me on the phone,” the presumptive Republican presidential nominee said on the “Today” show, dismissing the line of questioning as “low” and unimportant.
Earlier Friday, the Washington Post published a surreal, 14-minute phone call from 1991 between a man who said his name was John Miller — and who sounds like Trump — discussing Trump’s dating life.
“He gets called by everybody in the book in terms of women,” the man says in the recording, which was with Sue Carswell, a reporter at People magazine.
“Actresses, people that you write about, just call to see if they can go out with him,” he soon adds.
Trump, a real estate scion, was frequently covered by New York’s tabloids in the 1980s and 1990s, years before he burst on to the national scene as the star of “The Apprentice.”
He is widely described as having used two alter egos — “John Miller” and “John Barron” — in order to be his own publicist. At the time, Carswell reported that both New York Post columnist Cindy Adams and Marla Maples, Trump’s second wife who is discussed in the phone call, identified the voice in the recording as Trump’s.
“Astoundingly, and sadly, the most telling response came from Marla Maples herself,” Carswell wrote for People in 1991. “After she listened to a fragment and identified Trump, she was flabbergasted. It was the first time she had heard him publicly declare the relationship over.”
Donald Trump in 1991. (Photo: Ron Galella/WireImage/Getty Images)
But on Friday morning, Trump said the recording was a “scam.”
“I don’t know anything about it,” he said on “Today.”
“You’re telling me about it for the first time,” the mogul continued. “And it doesn’t sound like my voice at all. I have many, many people that are trying to imitate my voice. And you can imagine that. And this sounds like one of the scams.”
Anchor Savannah Guthrie continued to press Trump on the topic.
“The Post says that you acknowledged a couple decades ago that in fact that was you. But it was a joke,” she told him.
“I don’t think it was me. It doesn’t sound like me. I don’t know even what they’re talking about,” Trump replied.
Trump, asked about the recording a couple more times, criticized the questions and asked to move on to other topics.
“Wow. You mean you’re going so low as to talk about something that took place 25 years ago about whether or not I made a phone call?” he pushed ‘’back. “Let’s get on to more current subjects,” he added.
CarolKing
Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
Talking about a liar. It sure sounded like him. Every time he is cornered he says, "I don't know anything about it" same with the KKK and the David Duke controversy. "I don't know who David Duke is? I don't know any thing about it." Every day something new comes out, yesterday was his butler. Tomorrow he will probably have a temper tantrum aimed at whoever released that tape.
He's been pissed at Jeff Bezos Amazon's owner. I haven't paid much attention to it. Trump is so pissed off at so many people it's hard to keep up.
Two days after the editorial board of the Post called Trump a "poison pill" for the Republican party, Trump lashed out in a tweetstorm. He called Amazon a "big tax shelter," and Bezos' own. The editor of the Washington Post says Bezos doesn't have any input in the articles and stories. It not hard getting negative material about Trump.
There are so many people, companies and countries he's out to get once he becomes president. I just hope he doesn't become president.
Edit
Trump always thinks he's the smartest person in the room. It's scary when other people start to think that.
That tape makes him sound pretty pathetic and more pathetic that he would do those types of things on a regular basis.
He's been pissed at Jeff Bezos Amazon's owner. I haven't paid much attention to it. Trump is so pissed off at so many people it's hard to keep up.
Two days after the editorial board of the Post called Trump a "poison pill" for the Republican party, Trump lashed out in a tweetstorm. He called Amazon a "big tax shelter," and Bezos' own. The editor of the Washington Post says Bezos doesn't have any input in the articles and stories. It not hard getting negative material about Trump.
There are so many people, companies and countries he's out to get once he becomes president. I just hope he doesn't become president.
Edit
Trump always thinks he's the smartest person in the room. It's scary when other people start to think that.
That tape makes him sound pretty pathetic and more pathetic that he would do those types of things on a regular basis.
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lwien
Well-Known Member
Hillary's campaign manager must be scratching his/her head thinking, "Where in the hell do I start?"
BD9
Well-Known Member
cybrguy
Putin is a War Criminal
The thing about this shit that makes me nervous is that none of it is new. Donald Trump has been Donald Trump forever, and he has been a sleazy negative operator the whole time. This audio is from, like 25 years ago. He has never been trustworthy or particularly moral or generous (with his own money, not others) or cooperative or a contribution to society in any discernible way other than moving money around. Yet he managed to win over the Republican base in a BIG way. One can say that the Republican base have been radicalized and are all extremists now, that all the "reasonable" Republicans have left the party and are calling themselves independents, but the sheer number of votes he got in the primaries has got to be cause for concern.Hillary's campaign manager must be scratching his/her head thinking, "Where in the hell do I start?"
I still believe it is extremely unlikely that Donald Trump could be elected POTUS, but I no longer think it is impossible, and the idea that the decision could be in the hands of a confused and angry element of the Democratic electorate is not reassuring...
His_Highness
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king
Paul Ryan said "Trump has received more primary votes than any republican in history AND the primary count isn't over yet." Ryan also said "Trump has brought in a demographic that hasn't been seen in many years."
This is F'n nuts!
Gunky
Well-Known Member
I can't believe you are posting this trash here! Yeah I looked at 21:31 and on for several minutes. Dubious characters saying unsubstantiated things. I went back to the beginning of the film and sure enough there are all those sterling republican characters from Fox news spewing their hatred for Hillary. You are looking for the truth from Ann Coulter et al? Give me a break. And no, I'm not watching any more of your clips. Fool me once...
CarolKing
Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
I know you don't like it when folks post negative stuff about Hillary. They are entitled to their opinion just like you are. We want to keep this thread civil and not shut down.
You said I got my info from Fox News earlier and I hadn't, it was my very own opinion. It had nothing to do with Fox. Not everyone is spoon fed negative info from Fox about Hillary Clinton. We can make up our own minds.
It's really too bad that the democrats came into the race with just 2 major players to choose from.
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It is my own opinion and I will state it again. When someone disagrees, you tell them they found it on Fox News. That affended me.
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Gunky
Well-Known Member
Yeah they can post all the negative stuff about Hillary they want. I think it is fair to sigh when people post republican propaganda films like the one the Bernie bro posted above.
Well you say it is your own opinion but how did you get it? You didn't just come up with all this on your own. It's pretty obvious you are regurgitating bits of myth propagated by Fox, whether you know it or not. All that stuff about why senator of New York - you didn't make that up, admit it. (And if you really did come up with all that bit on your own, maybe you should apologize to Hillary since as I explained it is a scurrilous untruth.)
I think the above remarks are based on wrong assumptions and pretty unfair to Hillary, who is a person and deserves as much respect as any participant in this thread.
As for the trashy propaganda he posted, did you have a look at it? Do so before you criticize my remarks. Start from the beginning and go at least a minute.
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I don't see why @CarolKing couldn't have come up with her opinion on her own. It seemed like a reasonable conclusion to me... 
For what it's worth, I agree with you about the videos @Gunky... I watched a few minutes of them...
Of course, that's just my opinion. Everybody is entitled to their own beliefs and opinions. I wouldn't want to offend anyone.
For what it's worth, I agree with you about the videos @Gunky... I watched a few minutes of them...
Of course, that's just my opinion. Everybody is entitled to their own beliefs and opinions. I wouldn't want to offend anyone.
CarolKing
Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
@Gunky
Yes I came up with the above statement myself. I didn't pay a lot of attention to the Clintons after the election. I guess I'm small minded but I thought that they may go back to their state where they had lived prior to the presidency.
I just thought that it was odd that she would choose to be senator of a state that she hadn't lived in for very long. I knew nothing about NY's politics. I didn't think that she would be that familiar with New York, not having lived there long. It surprised me when she ran for Senator. Later when she ran for president, I figured the senate was a stepping stone for her.
Sounds like you know more about all the small details, I don't remember them.
I just remember how Hillary at times comes off as condescending and I came up with that myself.
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I guess not everybody wants to go back home. It depends on if you liked where you had lived before. I would have thought that they would have wanted to do some great things for their home state. To give back in some way.
The Clintons have done some great things with their charity - The Clinton Foundation.
Yes I came up with the above statement myself. I didn't pay a lot of attention to the Clintons after the election. I guess I'm small minded but I thought that they may go back to their state where they had lived prior to the presidency.
I just thought that it was odd that she would choose to be senator of a state that she hadn't lived in for very long. I knew nothing about NY's politics. I didn't think that she would be that familiar with New York, not having lived there long. It surprised me when she ran for Senator. Later when she ran for president, I figured the senate was a stepping stone for her.
Sounds like you know more about all the small details, I don't remember them.
I just remember how Hillary at times comes off as condescending and I came up with that myself.
Edit
I guess not everybody wants to go back home. It depends on if you liked where you had lived before. I would have thought that they would have wanted to do some great things for their home state. To give back in some way.
The Clintons have done some great things with their charity - The Clinton Foundation.
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cybrguy
Putin is a War Criminal
Pat Moynihan, an important NY Democrat, was retiring and leaving an open seat. Hillary didn't want to try and unseat a sitting Democrat and this was a good opportunity in an important state that would give her more influence than other smaller states. And they wanted to live in New York...
I would think, even if there were an open seat in AK, that going back to AK after the White House would have been going backwards in many ways...
I would think, even if there were an open seat in AK, that going back to AK after the White House would have been going backwards in many ways...
Gunky
Well-Known Member
OK so you were thinking about Hillary running for Moynihan's New York senate seat and you imagined a narrative based on the idea that she
But where did this idea - Hillary as power-mad harpy - come from? You may not watch Fox but people do and their meme made its way to you. You appear to be basing your whole opinion of her on notions like
.
How about letting go of these prejudices about her character (which ultimately come from sources with which you might not wish to be associated) and assessing what she has actually done and what she says she now wants to do.
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