The 2016 Presidential Candidates Thread

[TeeJay1952]

 

[Snappo]

The strength of America is not that we all think the same way but we act together in spite of our differences.
Your vision of a thousand years marching in lockstep referenced the Reich in my mind. I do indeed hope that you have loftier ideals. I was shocked by what I thought were obvious inferences (1000 years, strong leader, good of the nation...)but I see know is a leap of faith that you didn't intend and it is only my warped sensibilities in play.
My apologies.

You have taken my statements so far out of context with such incredible lack of understanding that I feel any attempt to make my points clear would only confuse you further and evoke more horribly distorted nonsense.

 

[Stevenski]

To a layman like me it appears America is at a very dangerous junction with this election. Looks like of the three candidates, two are compulsive liars & the other is a rich old capitalist social justice warrior with his heart in the right place & the business acumen to make real world change.

Due to the "democratic" process in America it will likely be liar vs liar in a lengthy mud slinging campaign of a most base manner that will leave one victor elected POTUSA universally despised around the globe. Elections are not rocket science & should not take 18 months. My country has had a federal election called this week by our PM & it will all be over on July 2nd after a mere 7 weeks of mind numbing politicking.

I have always voted for the Republican equivalent as they were the lesser of two evils & the Democrats equivalent are even more inept in their governance. Now I understand I can't change anything so I try & ignore it being a happy little mushroom & be in blissful ignorance.

I wanted to say I read the last couple of pages & congratulations on keeping it civil but passionate in your arguments .

 

[Detonator]

Fuck the Republicans - I aint keeping noithing civil... they are pandering to the 1% and will eventually drive us all to the bottom...

Trump aint even a republican,,,he is a much worse... Narcissistic, racist, little kid, who will probably drop nukes on someone to steal there oil...

wallstreet Hillary aint much better...


We need a real revolution in this country... Bernie Sanders

 

[His_Highness]

I am curious about what inspired you to express this and what you intended to convey.

I think what was meant is that hillary is more likely to be held accountable for her stated positions.

@grokit already captured the point I was aiming for and not long after I posted it I heard a debate between pundits that addressed it as well..... but used a word that summed it up better than I did. The word was "Evolve".

Here's how it went....One pundit ran through a litany of positions where Hillary had shifted positions. The term used here was "flip flopping" and it was meant to convey the feeling that Hillary changed positions to pander to the shifting base. IMO...Some points valid, some not. When the other pundit pointed out that Trump was not only flip flopping positions but was doing it daily the other pundit said "The difference is Trump is not a mainstream career politician and is evolving as he learns more".

The term "evolving" was meant to convey that he is improving his overall knowledge, political understanding, is "improving" as a presidential candidate and representative of the American public. Valid or not, in the minds of Trump supporters ... Hillary is penalized for changing her mind while Trump is given a pass and even a pat on the back for it.

Considering Trump began in his own version of political primordial ooze he had nowhere to go but up. I would hope he would have to evolve beyond a single celled political organism to win but the bar may not be that high for him versus Hillary or Bernie because "they should know better".

 

[CarolKing]

To a layman like me it appears America is at a very dangerous junction with this election. Looks like of the three candidates, two are compulsive liars & the other is a rich old capitalist social justice warrior with his heart in the right place & the business acumen to make real world change.

Due to the "democratic" process in America it will likely be liar vs liar in a lengthy mud slinging campaign of a most base manner that will leave one victor elected POTUSA universally despised around the globe. Elections are not rocket science & should not take 18 months. My country has had a federal election called this week by our PM & it will all be over on July 2nd after a mere 7 weeks of mind numbing politicking.

I have always voted for the Republican equivalent as they were the lesser of two evils & the Democrats equivalent are even more inept in their governance. Now I understand I can't change anything so I try & ignore it being a happy little mushroom & be in blissful ignorance.

I wanted to say I read the last couple of pages & congratulations on keeping it civil but passionate in your arguments .

I never thought of Bernie Sanders as a liar. He has a lot of ideas that may or may not be achievable depending on congress and how long he would be in office. Never a liar, the most truthful of the bunch.

 

[lwien]

...the other is a rich old capitalist social justice warrior with his heart in the right place....

Who is that and what do you consider the "right place"?

 

[Maitri]

Fuck the Republicans - I aint keeping noithing civil... they are pandering to the 1% and will eventually drive us all to the bottom...

Trump aint even a republican,,,he is a much worse... Narcissistic, racist, little kid, who will probably drop nukes on someone to steal there oil...

wallstreet Hillary aint much better...


We need a real revolution in this country... Bernie Sanders

Gandhi said (no quotes because I am paraphrasing), an eye for an eye leads us to a blind world.

In my opinion, MLK nailed it when he sought a peaceful path toward change. Sure aggression can lead to change, but the results will likely not meet your hopes or expectations. The results of aggression certainly will not meet my aspirations for this world.

 

[CuckFumbustion]

Due to the "democratic" process in America it will likely be liar vs liar in a lengthy mud slinging campaign of a most base manner that will leave one victor elected POTUSA universally despised around the globe. Elections are not rocket science & should not take 18 months. My country has had a federal election called this week by our PM & it will all be over on July 2nd after a mere 7 weeks of mind numbing politicking.

Sounds quite nice compared to what we are in store for this election. Where a lot of the flaws of the election system have been distorted and contorted and are being brought to light this cycle. Plus either candidate could have a controversy surface at any time that could sway the election. It's no longer a case if the lies will catch up, but the impact of those lies when they are put in the news cycle.
When RNC members are running a safety candidate to torpedo Trump. Where Sanders has to decide to continue when the news media has declared Hillary the winner. While the impact of the last remaining states are discounted due to all the projections
State level politics and a fractured election system that allow for these shenanigans is to blame for some of this mess. Then the election laws of each state. So much mischief will be caused in that 18 months to put a liar in office.

 

[Maitri]

@grokit already captured the point I was aiming for and not long after I posted it I heard a debate between pundits that addressed it as well..... but used a word that summed it up better than I did. The word was "Evolve".

Huh. How does introducing the flip-flop idea help convey your sentiment? It seems petty, passive aggressive, and not at all constructive to me, so I am clearly missing something here. Help?

 

[His_Highness]

Huh. How does introducing the flip-flop idea help convey your sentiment? It seems petty, passive aggressive, and not at all constructive to me, so I am clearly missing something here. Help?

I didn't introduce the flip-flop idea for any reason other than to point out that Hillary is held to a higher and different standard than Trump. A contrast between how the the two candidates may be viewed based on something as common as changing a stance.

Hillary changes position on something months or years later and it's held against her. Trump changes his mind daily and it's not held against him and may actually be viewed as him growing into a smarter candidate.

No passive aggressiveness was intended .... sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

 

[lwien]

.... sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

Not according to Bill.

 

[His_Highness]

Not according to Bill.

Bill never inhaled......but I have a feeling that's not where you were headed....

 

[cybrguy]

Not according to Bill.

et tu brute

 

[cybrguy]

Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump looks at a sheet of notes and talking points as he speaks during a rally in Eugene, Ore., May 6, 2016.

A post-policy party finds a post-policy candidate
05/10/16 12:46 PM—Updated 05/10/16 12:56 PM

Hillary Clinton’s campaign website features an “issues” page where visitors can read the Democrat’s position papers on 31 different issues. Each page features a fairly detailed overview of the candidate’s approach to the issue – some, including the page on climate change, lead to additional resources with even more specific information – leaving little doubt as to how Clinton intends to govern if elected.

Donald Trump’s campaign website, meanwhile, features a “positions” page with summaries of the Republican candidate’s approach to seven issues. Most of the content is vague and boilerplate, and voters hoping to learn detailed information about how Trump would govern will need to look elsewhere.

As it turns out, this isn’t an accident or the result of a bad web team. Rather, it’s the result of a deliberate decision on the part of the campaign to downplay substantive details ahead of the election. Politico reported yesterday:

A source familiar with Trump’s thinking explained that the billionaire businessman was reluctant to add new layers of policy experts now, feeling it would only muddy his populist message that has been hyperfocused on illegal immigration, trade and fighting Islamic extremists.

“He doesn’t want to waste time on policy and thinks it would make him less effective on the stump,” the Trump source said. “It won’t be until after he is elected but before he’s inaugurated that he will figure out exactly what he is going to do and who he is going to try to hire.”

Oh. So, Trump will eventually put together a policy agenda, but not until after the election. Voters should support the least-experienced, least-prepared presidential candidate of the modern era first, and then he’ll let the public know how he intends to govern.

The traditional model is for a candidate to present an agenda before the election – voters might want to know what they’re voting for – but who needs such antiquated niceties when there’s a nativist demagogue who doesn’t understand how government works running for the nation’s highest office?

I’ve been banging the post-policy drum for a few years now – one of these days, I’d love to find time to write a book on the thesis – but Trump’s “vote now, details later” posture is a terrific encapsulation of the larger problem. In 2016, Republican politics treats substance and policy details as an annoyance to be avoided.

Why “waste time on policy” when the priority should be ensuring a candidate is “effective on the stump”? It’s the kind of thinking that suggests style must always trump substance, because governing isn’t nearly as important as winning.

Of course, it’s worth emphasizing that Trump doesn’t have a lot of choice in the matter. He has no background in public policy or government, so it’s not as if he can help shape a substantive agenda of his own, and even if the presumptive Republican nominee wanted to hire subject-area experts to help him craft a detailed platform, actual wonks would turn him down, wanting nothing to do with his candidacy.

The aforementioned Politico piece quoted a former senior official from the Bush/Cheney administration saying, “The A-level people, and there are not that many of them to begin with, mostly don’t want to work for Trump.”

In other words, even if Trump wanted a credible policy agenda – he doesn’t, but even if he did – the Republican really doesn’t have a team in place to help him pull a governing vision together.

 

[Stevenski]

Who is that and what do you consider the "right place"?

That place would be a country where a basic education & healthcare are available to all. Just the basic things that all Americans should be entitled to as members of the leading first world nation.

I am far from against user pays systems but I cannot rationalize the excessive military spending & corporate subsidy platforms with the absence of real social support for all levels of society.

Trump is a dangerous buffoon whose trail of corporate mismanagement is a mile wide. He is also glib & plays on emotion. A proven liar & cheat.

Clinton has blood on her hands & is another compulsive liar. By far the most dangerous candidate who plays all sides at once.

Sanders is the only candidate who is talking about human issues & has a sound business mind.

I say this only as a layman viewing this from the other side of the world & they are very general views at that. All know is there's only one candidate I would have a drink with.

 

[CarolKing]

I believe in states rights but I wish our national voting laws were more streamlined with each party through all the states. They need to be all the same. You have all these different laws and rules.

It seems like they are changing the voting laws around a lot in some of the states making it confusing for some voters. It gets confusing for older citizens.

 

[lwien]

All know is there's only one candidate I would have a drink with.

Me too.

I've always liked Bernie but it wasn't until that great smile that he gave this little bird that I realized that I actually love this guy. Heart warming to say the least. If this happened to Trump, I have no doubt that he would have tried to either swat it away or called in his security guys to pepper spray it.

It gets confusing for older citizens.

 

[grokit]

Bernie just took west virginia

Now, please compare & contrast the two stories below:


Poll: Clinton, Trump 'dead even' in Florida, Ohio, and Pennsylvania

Nearly one in four likely voters would either stay home or vote for some other candidate.

It's still early to analyze the general election, but a new poll shows Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump in a dead heat in three key swing states: Florida, Ohio, and Pennsylvania.

The Quinnipiac University Swing State Poll released Tuesday has Clinton up by a single point in both Florida (43%-42%) and Pennsylvania (43%-42%), while Trump leads Clinton in Ohio by 43%-to-39%

"Six months from Election Day, the presidential races between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump in the three most crucial states, Florida, Ohio and Pennsylvania, are too close to call," said Peter A. Brown, assistant director of the Quinnipiac Poll.

www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/onpolitics/2016/05/10/donald-trump-hillary-clinton-quinnipiac-poll-florida-ohio-pennsylvania/84173448/



Sanders Crushing Trump in Polls 53 Percent to 38 Percent, Seen as Strongest General Election Candidate

The Vermont Senator is poised to arrive at the Democratic convention as the stronger candidate to take on Trump.

Senator Bernie Sanders would defeat Donald Trump relatively easily in a general election, according to the latest polls. An average of the three most recent major polls predicts a victory of more than 14 points, which would be a landslide in modern presidential politics.

• CNN/ORC, May 1: Sanders obliterates Trump by 16 points
• IBD/TIPP, April 28: Sanders defeats Trump by 12 points
• USA Today/Suffolk, April 24: Sanders defeats Trump by 15 points

As the country adjusts to the notion that a xenophobic, racist billionaire will be the Republican candidate for the presidency in November, no doubt many hope the strongest candidate emerges from the Democratic Party to defeat him.

The polls are clear on who that candidate is.

And at this point, it isn't just the polls. Political analysis of the two Democratic campaigns also indicates Bernie Sanders is the stronger candidate.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tony-brasunas/sanders-crushing-trump-in_b_9862708.html

 

[Gunky]

Me too.

I've always liked Bernie but it wasn't until that great smile that he gave this little bird that I realized that I actually love this guy. Heart warming to say the least. If this happened to Trump, I have no doubt that he would have tried to either swat it away or called in his security guys to pepper spray it.

[dumb video]

Oh give us a break with that video. That's like the 5th time you've posted it. You are fixating on a fantasy personality not a candidate or a set of policies. And it's easy to see why. He had virtually no support for these policies while serving in Congress. Policy-wise it's all a complete non-starter fantasy, so what's left is ya gotta love the personality. President Sweet Old Grampa. Just keep watching those gleaming teeth and forget the fact that none of the bigger things he is calling for is remotely possible.

 

[lwien]

Oh give us a break with that video. That's like the 5th time you've posted it. You are fixating on a fantasy personality not a candidate or a set of policies. And it's easy to see why. He had virtually no support for these policies while serving in Congress. Policy-wise it's all a complete non-starter fantasy, so what's left is ya gotta love the personality. President Sweet Old Grampa. Just keep watching those gleaming teeth and forget the fact that none of the bigger things he is calling for is remotely possible.

Well, you're kinda of a buzzkill.

I just responded to someone who said that he's the only candidate that they'd like to have a beer with and I posted that vid again in my attempt to agree with him. I've NEVER, in any of my posts here, indicated that I think that any of his projected policies has a chance in hell of working.........nor have I said that they won't. I just like him. Kinda like an Uncle Bernie kind of a guy.

 

[Gunky]

Well, you're kinda of a buzzkill.

I just responded to someone who said that he's the only candidate that they'd like to have a beer with and I posted that vid again in my attempt to agree with him. I've NEVER, in any of my posts here, indicated that I think that any of his projected policies has a chance in hell of working.

I don't know how closely you are following Bernie's campaign rhetoric. I made the mistake of 'liking' Bernie on Facebook early in the campaign so I get daily dosages of Bernie's campaign emails. I am getting really mad at Bernie! Read those emails it's like fukking leftist conspiracy theory, the corporate powers and their puppet Clinton are out to yada yada... Shit! It's like political theory from this guy:

WTF? Is he trying to get Trump elected? He is not the saintly old grampa you imagine.

 

[CarolKing]

I go back and forth about this but I wonder if Bernie might have a better chance of winning than Hillary? All this bull about Bill's affairs is really putting a damper on things IMO.

I think he really screwed things up for her.

Bernie is having a great speech on CNN right now from Oregon. Looks like a huge crowd. So far he is just saying stuff about Trump.

 

[Gunky]

I go back and forth about this but I wonder if Bernie might have a better chance of winning than Hillary? All this bull about Bill's affairs is really putting a damper on things IMO.

I think he really screwed things up for her.

-snip-

Hillary is 68 now. Somehow I don't see extramarital affairs in the White House as a big danger in her future. Bill isn't running. As far as Trump's claim that she somehow enabled Bill's philandering - poppycock! Total bullshit. Blame the victim. And he is one to talk with all his affairs and marriages. All of that stuff is a non-issue and only hurts Trump for bringing it up.

Listen, Trump is about to get stung by his past. This low-life has said and done so many squirrely things it ain't funny. The repubs never laid a glove on him because they were afraid of alienating his supporters. Just wait.

On top of that he disdains preparation and has very little self-control, so a little poke in the debates and he goes all apoplectic, bat-shit... condescension, male chauvinism, bigotry, all of it will be out there on display. What worked to win a 33% plurality in repub primaries does not work nationally. If she plays her cards right she can work him up to full scale ranting, obscenities, yuuge!

 

[CarolKing]

I agree with you @Gunky Bills affairs shouldn't be an issue, it's not for me. It is for other people. Yesterday all the stuff Trump was saying was devastating. Folks don't want to hear it. I also agree Trump has had his fair share of affairs.

I can't believe that America is in this situation with their choices in a president.

I'm glad Hillary is staying on point and not addressing any of Trump's statements. I think he is totally out of line.

Edit
I don't believe that Bill would have an affair at this point in his life. Who really knows? Not after the Monica Lewinsky nightmare would he ever compromise himself that way again.