The 2016 Presidential Candidates Thread

grokit

well-worn member
I'm apolitical, because they're all self serving or serving their own vested interests, you can argue that as much as you want but you won't sway me :)
I understand your frustration, and agree for the most part. But I will try anyways: Bernie's worth ~half a million $, and he still takes the train to work. He is a true public servant and an exception to the rule.
 

ReggieB

Well-Known Member
Respectfully, It doesn't matter where I'm from, everyone's politics affects everyone else to think differently would be misinterpreting the world stage, I really do understand :)

I have no preference for any of them, I haven't sided with any, I haven't attacked anyone, just pointed at the flawed system.
 

lwien

Well-Known Member
You're biased towards one group, that's understandable because you believe the system works but you seem to be confusing me with someone who doesn't understand which is slightly patronising, if you're happy voting for the least worst, go for it.

Didn't mean to come off as patronizing but being that that's the way I came off, I apologize. That was not my intent but you see the two parties are more of the same than different and I see them as more different than the same.

As far as my belief that the system will work differently depending on which party is voted into office, one just has to look at the make-up of the Supreme Court. Considering some of the very important issues that they are now ruling on as well as some very important issues that will come up in the future, the outcome for many who live in this country could change drastically, one way or the other.
 

CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
When I said respectful I didn't mention any names. It was a broad statement. We've had such great discussions in this thread. We all don't agree on the same things. What happens in our country affects others. What happens in your country or any other place can affect us in America. We all share this big blue planet.

Global warming is a big deal. Who our leaders are will affect us all. Cruz thinks global warming doesn't exist.

Edit
I didn't mean to hurt anyone's feelings.
 
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ReggieB

Well-Known Member
@CarolKing I know you didn't, however, my comment could have come across as arrogant or dismissive so I was making sure it didn't :)

@lwien No need to apologise there was no offence taken, if I couldn't defend my views properly I probably shouldn't air them in public but I can so it's all good.

Least worst is not a good choice, just the one you're left with.
 

lwien

Well-Known Member
Least worst is not a good choice, just the one you're left with.

Here are just two examples of it being a lot more than just.......the least worst.

In my example above, the Supreme Court, under a GOP President, could very well make abortions illegal, could very well make gay marriage illegal and could very well limit already lax gun control mandates and could very well make immigration policies that would make me cringe.

It's a LOT more than just the least worst. It a lot more black and white than that. And it's not just Trump. Cruz could make this democracy look more like a theocracy and that scares the shit outta me.

There is a LOT at stake here in this upcoming election.............a LOT!

This election reminds me very much of when Barry Goldwater was running for president back in 1964. The country would have looked very different back then if he won and if he did win, the repercussions could very well have been felt even today.

The pendulum will always swing from the right to the left and then back again. The trick is to not let it swing so far that it hits the ouster edges from either the left or the right.

We can't stop the swinging but we can stop how far it swings.
 
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Gunky

Well-Known Member
Yes now I see the beauty of the 'all candidates are the same' position. It is not necessary to take in any evidence about the fitness of any candidate, whether he or she be extreme in their views and positions, whether there is anything in their character or experience which might qualify (or disqualify) them for the job of leader of the most powerful nation on earth, indeed any one detail about the candidates whatsoever - not necessary, as the system is rigged and all candidates are the same. There is a certain hermetically sealed quality about this view of life which must be comforting, much like the hole for an ostrich's head.
 

Farid

Well-Known Member
Yes now I see the beauty of the 'all candidates are the same' position. It is not necessary to take in any evidence about the fitness of any candidate, whether he or she be extreme in their views and positions, whether there is anything in their character or experience which might qualify (or disqualify) them for the job of leader of the most powerful nation on earth, indeed any one detail about the candidates whatsoever - not necessary, as the system is rigged and all candidates are the same. There is a certain hermetically sealed quality about this view of life which must be comforting, much like the hole for an ostrich's head.
It's insulting to say that people who say all the candidates are relatively the same have their heads in the sand and that they only take that position because they have not been following the election. People who think that this whole election is a freak show have certainly been following things, they just disagree with you. I won't say they're all the same, but they're all unpalatable at this point.
 

lwien

Well-Known Member
I won't say they're all the same, but they're all unpalatable at this point.

While I can totally understand why some would feel that they're all unpalatable, I don't understand why anyone would feel that they are generally, all the same.

....they only take that position because they have not been following the election.

Following the election should be a prerequisite to taking a position on this topic, eh? ;) I kinda say that in jest but there is a bit of truth in that, eh?
 
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CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
I will have to admit it's hard to listen to some of the yelling and rhyming from Hillary but Donald Trump has proven many times he doesn't have the temperament or the skills to be president. There really is no comparison, Hillary could be president.

I prefer Bernie Sanders but I'm not sure if he will be an option if he doesn't have the delegates. So I will hold my nose and vote for Hillary in the general election. I will vote for Bernie in our caucus and primary. I will vote for whatever demo that wins the nomination.

Ted Cruz's republican friends in politics don't even like him.
 
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Gunky

Well-Known Member
Some good discussion of Clinton and mainstream democratic trends:
A few decades ago, Mrs. Clinton would have been seen as a common political type: an evidence-oriented pragmatist committed to using public authority to solve big problems. Her proposals clearly indicate that she believes in an active and responsive government that supplements, channels and polices markets. Moreover, unlike Mr. Sanders, she sees this role as primarily focused on correcting the shortcomings of weakly regulated markets rather than redistributing income and wealth. In a phrase, Mrs. Clinton believes in a “mixed economy” in which government serves as an essential supplement to and regulator of markets, using its strong “thumb” (as the political economist Charles Lindblom once described it) to assist and counterbalance the nimble “fingers” of the market.
In the middle decades of the 20th century, this pragmatic problem-solving mentality had a prominent place in both parties. Some issues were deeply divisive: labor rights and national health insurance, for example, and civil rights. Nonetheless, a bipartisan governing coalition that included leaders from both business and labor proved remarkably willing to endorse and improve the mixed economy to promote prosperity.
More important, the major policies that this coalition devised deserve credit for some of the greatest achievements of American society, including the nation’s once decisive lead in science and education, its creation of a continent-spanning market linked by transportation and communications, and its pioneering creation of product and environmental regulations that added immensely to Americans’ health and quality of life. In the 20th century, life expectancy increased by more than in all of world history. Americans’ income per capita doubled and then more than doubled again, with the gains broadly distributed for most of the era.
The embrace of an active government, working in creative tension with the private sector, also sowed the seeds for technological and health advances that are still flowering today, including the creation of vaccines and antibiotics to the development of sophisticated medical treatments for hypertension and cancer. Virtually every major computing technology — magnetic core memory, graphics displays, multiple central processors — has its roots in government procurement or financing.
 

CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
This was from a week ago a couple paragraphs from the Rolling Stone

Still, the question for nervous Democrats, should Trump and Clinton win their respective nominations, becomes: Can a message of love and kindness, as delivered by one of the most polarizing figures in modern political history, suffice? And will the young people exercised by Sanders' own message of revolutionary change be willing to follow a hawkish moderate who voted for the Iraq War and has taken millions of dollars from the very Wall Street banks their candidate has been tirelessly denouncing from Day One?

To the last question, as one Democratic Party insider told me, "White millennials are the most pro-diversity of any group of whites. They may grow up to be assholes later, who knows. But the most motivating thing to get people to vote is fear, not love. And if Trump can't scare the fuck out of people, I don't know what can. So I have a hard time believing they'll sit home if Hillary is the nominee."



Read more: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/hillary
Follow us: @rollingstone on Twitter | RollingStone on Facebook
 

CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
If Trump starts playing the Bill Clinton womanizing card. Hillary needs to mention about this rumor. I wonder if it's true? Of coarse Trump would say this is a lie. This is an article from last summer. It sounds pretty sick. It could be a lie, maybe that's why we haven't heard anything about this. Even if it were true, his exwives probably had to sign a contract in order to get paid off. People can post anything. Had any of you heard any of this? This is from the Internet Cronicle
CK

Saturday, Donald Trump’s ex-wives came forward with shocking stories of the bombastic Republican presidential candidate’s multiple abortions, alleging he coerced them into aborting when they wanted to keep their babies.

Trump’s first wife, Ivana, told reporters, “He was obsessed with having unprotected sex with me at all moments of the day, and I got pregnant ten times during our marriage. The first time he just scowled and said ‘you’re getting an abortion’ even though I wanted to keep the baby. I had no choice at all. He wouldn’t even pull out.”

Amidst tears, Ivana explained her reason for coming forward, “I knew I had to say something when Donald was on TV saying his views on abortion had evolved because he knew a man who was not aborted. That man is his own son, who he wanted to abort so badly that he gave me a black eye. But I kept three of my babies, mostly by lying to him, and he resented it so much he left me for Marla.”

Trump’s next wife, Marla Maples, met up with Ivana Trump after the debate to talk about their ex-husband’s love for abortion. “I used to hate Ivana but we went through the same meat grinder. I always asked Donald to wear a condom because I didn’t want to get pregnant, but he hated them and called them ‘cocksocks.’ I always felt like he enjoyed it when he’d get me pregnant and take me to Planned Parenthood, and Ivana said she went through the same thing. He definitely took pleasure in aborting his babies. But now we know how much a fetus is worth, and how he always wanted more and more sex when he was losing money. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if he was reinvesting the abortion profits into real estate, but that’s taking it easy on him. There was probably no money in it at all, just a carnal urge to desecrate a woman’s body and kill her unborn babies. Megyn Kelly has no clue how much that sicko hates women. He forced abortions out of us when we wanted to keep our babies. He’s not pro-choice or pro-life, he’s pro-death.”
 
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Snappo

Caveat Emptor - "A Billion People Can Be Wrong!"
Accessory Maker
If Trump starts playing the Bill Clinton womanizing card. Hillary needs to mention about this rumor. I wonder if it's true? Of coarse Trump would say this is a lie. This is an article from last summer. It sounds pretty sick. It could be a lie, maybe that's why we haven't heard anything about this. Even if it were true, his exwives probably had to sign a contract in order to get paid off. People can post anything. Had any of you heard any of this? This is from the Internet Cronicle
CK

Saturday, Donald Trump’s ex-wives came forward with shocking stories of the bombastic Republican presidential candidate’s multiple abortions, alleging he coerced them into aborting when they wanted to keep their babies.

Trump’s first wife, Ivana, told reporters, “He was obsessed with having unprotected sex with me at all moments of the day, and I got pregnant ten times during our marriage. The first time he just scowled and said ‘you’re getting an abortion’ even though I wanted to keep the baby. I had no choice at all. He wouldn’t even pull out.”

Amidst tears, Ivana explained her reason for coming forward, “I knew I had to say something when Donald was on TV saying his views on abortion had evolved because he knew a man who was not aborted. That man is his own son, who he wanted to abort so badly that he gave me a black eye. But I kept three of my babies, mostly by lying to him, and he resented it so much he left me for Marla.”

Trump’s next wife, Marla Maples, met up with Ivana Trump after the debate to talk about their ex-husband’s love for abortion. “I used to hate Ivana but we went through the same meat grinder. I always asked Donald to wear a condom because I didn’t want to get pregnant, but he hated them and called them ‘cocksocks.’ I always felt like he enjoyed it when he’d get me pregnant and take me to Planned Parenthood, and Ivana said she went through the same thing. He definitely took pleasure in aborting his babies. But now we know how much a fetus is worth, and how he always wanted more and more sex when he was losing money. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if he was reinvesting the abortion profits into real estate, but that’s taking it easy on him. There was probably no money in it at all, just a carnal urge to desecrate a woman’s body and kill her unborn babies. Megyn Kelly has no clue how much that sicko hates women. He forced abortions out of us when we wanted to keep our babies. He’s not pro-choice or pro-life, he’s pro-death.”
Trump's phone number: 1-800-666-0000:evil:
 

CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
Maybe you guys saw this. I thought it was funny. It's just a joke. He does look like the guy in that one picture.

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Michael Boulerice / Via Facebook: MichaelBoulericeAuthor

Stryper is a four-member Christian heavy metal band from Orange County, California. They formed in 1983 and have produced eleven albums in their 20-year career.
enhanced-14826-1458228171-1.jpg

Band members: Oz Fox, Robert Sweet, Michael Sweet and Tim Gaines. (Getty Photo/Larry Marano)
 

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
A clarifying week for two different kinds of political parties

03/18/16 12:49 PM

Almost immediately after President Obama introduced Judge Merrick Garland as his Supreme Court nominee, congressional Republicans said their unprecedented blockade strategy would remain in effect. It led National Journal’s Ron Fournier to say something unexpected.

For those unfamiliar with Fournier’s work, the zealously centrist pundit has an unhealthy preoccupation with blaming “both sides” in every possible instance. But on Wednesday, the National Journal columnist declared, “I rarely come across a story where one side deserves 100% of blame. Congrats, GOP.” When it comes to the Republicans’ obstructionist tactics towards the Supreme Court vacancy, Fournier’s message to the party was simple: “You’ve stumped me.”

Putting aside why any professional observer feels the need to examine a story while trying to blame both sides, Fournier’s concession was a rather striking reminder that even those who want to give Republicans the benefit of the doubt in the midst of their unprecedented tantrums can’t think of a credible defense.

It’s been that kind of week, hasn’t it? While Senate Republicans were struggling to explain why they must reject a moderate Supreme Court nominee chosen to get their approval, Republican voters took another step toward making a bombastic political amateur and former reality-show host the party’s presidential nominee.

Vox’s Ezra Klein raised an important point yesterday: “The difference between the Republican and Democratic parties has never been clearer.”
There is a deep pull in political punditry toward asserting symmetry between the two political parties – whatever sins one party is guilty of, surely the other party is no better. But this was a week in which the pretense of symmetry between the modern Democratic and Republican parties fell away.

The Democratic Party is acting like the political parties we have traditionally known in American politics: It is backing familiar politicians with deep institutional ties and, amidst divided government, nominating compromise figures with the potential for bipartisan appeal. The Republican Party, however, is moving in a different and worrying direction: It is nominating an inexperienced demagogue whose appeal is precisely that he has no institutional ties, and it is refusing to even consider compromise with the sitting president.​
Ezra pointed to the critically important 2012 thesis from Norm Ornstein and Thomas Mann, who famously wrote that the contemporary GOP “has become an insurgent outlier in American politics. It is ideologically extreme; scornful of compromise; unmoved by conventional understanding of facts, evidence and science; and dismissive of the legitimacy of its political opposition…. When one party moves this far from the mainstream, it makes it nearly impossible for the political system to deal constructively with the country’s challenges.”

Ornstein and Mann couldn’t have known this week was coming, but their thesis has never looked more compelling.

It’s sometimes convenient to consider this dynamic in quantifiable terms. Political scientists can point to data such as DW-Nominate scores that prove with great clarity just how radicalized the modern Republican Party has become.

But as instructive as the data can be, weeks like this one offer the public even more powerful evidence of just how different the parties have become. (And I haven’t even mentioned the ridiculously far-right House Republican budget plan, which the House GOP’s Freedom Caucus declared too liberal this week.)

Among lazy observers, there are tiresome cliches about the parties and politicians all being the same. We’re occasionally reminded just how wrong they are.
 
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