Adobewan
Well-Known Member
We may have faired much better if Bush had another VP.
I beleive it was that evil war profiteer, Cheney, with his hand up the ass of a simpleton, that did the bulk of the damage to the country.
The 2016 Presidential Candidates Thread
- Thread starter CarolKing
- Start date
I beleive it was that evil war profiteer, Cheney, with his hand up the ass of a simpleton, that did the bulk of the damage to the country.
lwien
Well-Known Member
Bob Dole along with other "mainstream" Republicans are now saying that they would prefer to have Trump in the WH than Cruz because Trump would do less damage to the country. Gotta love the GOP, eh?
GWB's father just about said the same thing in his most recent book and he was even more negative about Rumsfeld.
His_Highness
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king
When it comes to a Sanders versus Hillary decision I'm riding the fence.....but I'm a registered independent so it matters not. For what it's worth .... they are the only two presidential hopefuls I'm considering at this point.
I think I line up with the what the majority of folks are wresting with from the 60,000 foot view ... I trust/like Sanders more but Hillary is the more electable by a long shot IMO. When I get into the details that each stands for I can find enough about each to still be stuck on that fence.
I hate the idea of having to decide between who I trust and who I think is electable... but again...as an independent it isn't something I will have to deal with. I'm happy to leave that to the registered dems to wrestle with.
I think I line up with the what the majority of folks are wresting with from the 60,000 foot view ... I trust/like Sanders more but Hillary is the more electable by a long shot IMO. When I get into the details that each stands for I can find enough about each to still be stuck on that fence.
I hate the idea of having to decide between who I trust and who I think is electable... but again...as an independent it isn't something I will have to deal with. I'm happy to leave that to the registered dems to wrestle with.
Farid
Well-Known Member
But the data has shown that Sanders would fair better than Hillary in an election vs Trump. I was just talking to my friend who said his grandfather was talking about the election, and said he would vote for Sanders over Trump... and this guy is an old school working class Irish American conservative. He did, however, say that he wouldn't vote if it was Clinton VS Trump.
Gunky
Well-Known Member
It's more than just electability. Sanders is talking about all sorts of stuff that absolutely thrills the liberal base, but cannot be enacted in the Congress the next president will work with. It's all great but it's a fantasy which is not going to happen; a republican House of Representatives is not going to vote for any of the stuff Bernie is talking about. Clinton by comparison talks about very realistic policies and has great expertise in the areas where the next president can make a diff.
His_Highness
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king
See your point Farid but....Trump may not win the primary. Even with the polls as they stand I still believe enough in the US as a whole to think Trump will eventually hear 'You're Fired'
lwien
Well-Known Member
If voting for Hillary means keeping Cruz or Trump out of the WH, I'd vote for her in a heartbeat.
gangababa
Well-Known Member
People can argue endlessly about the names and faces of the candidates.
It is a distraction! It is the result of previous parents' not voting for their own interests.
Not voting causes the status quo
Not voting is an action of ignorance
Failed government is the result of the action of not voting
There are two tribes in America, the progressives and the regressives.
Conservatism is gone. Anyone arguing to keep the status quo of income inequality, tax unfairness, poverty, racism, gun violence, etc is showing a failure of moral thinking.
The Republican party is filled with bad thinking people. If that cabal were to take over the House, Senate and Presidency, say goodbye to the twentieth century. Hello gay-eighteen-nineties when the working class didn't know any other place (like the union created middle class) and magnates were not-maligned.
The results of that tribes' philosophy is an end to Social Security and Affordable Health Care, a return of back alley abortions, actions against women (PERIOD), more warfare and low taxes (a clear sign of delusional thinking), Beating back the humanity of gays, lesbians, blacks, Syrians (and so on).
Glorifying the inhumanity of corporations. They are for money but against sharing it with you.
The fruits of your labors make capitol grow, otherwise it is only money under the mattress.
The tribe attracts mean spirited people claiming the mantle of God.
The tribe has dropped any pretense of compassionate conservative principles previously pleaded to attract the trump-pets of the nation.
The tribe of the rich is no longer is buying the politicians. The rich are running themselves- it is a screw you to the 99% of the occupiers of the country.
Trump is trolling the nation and too many hungry people are biting in their scramble for the magic ticket with which he taunts.
" 'I' will fix everything", 'god' says, "and you will pay for it".
The other tribe at least tries to maintain a morality of humanity and to act consistent with the inclusive principles taught by their Godly-Man-Savior who is totally ignored by the regressive tribe in favor of flawed Greek metaphysics and Saul's self-serving system.
YOU MUST VOTE AGAINST THE GREATEST EVIL
It is a distraction! It is the result of previous parents' not voting for their own interests.
Not voting causes the status quo
Not voting is an action of ignorance
Failed government is the result of the action of not voting
There are two tribes in America, the progressives and the regressives.
Conservatism is gone. Anyone arguing to keep the status quo of income inequality, tax unfairness, poverty, racism, gun violence, etc is showing a failure of moral thinking.
The Republican party is filled with bad thinking people. If that cabal were to take over the House, Senate and Presidency, say goodbye to the twentieth century. Hello gay-eighteen-nineties when the working class didn't know any other place (like the union created middle class) and magnates were not-maligned.
The results of that tribes' philosophy is an end to Social Security and Affordable Health Care, a return of back alley abortions, actions against women (PERIOD), more warfare and low taxes (a clear sign of delusional thinking), Beating back the humanity of gays, lesbians, blacks, Syrians (and so on).
Glorifying the inhumanity of corporations. They are for money but against sharing it with you.
The fruits of your labors make capitol grow, otherwise it is only money under the mattress.
The tribe attracts mean spirited people claiming the mantle of God.
The tribe has dropped any pretense of compassionate conservative principles previously pleaded to attract the trump-pets of the nation.
The tribe of the rich is no longer is buying the politicians. The rich are running themselves- it is a screw you to the 99% of the occupiers of the country.
Trump is trolling the nation and too many hungry people are biting in their scramble for the magic ticket with which he taunts.
" 'I' will fix everything", 'god' says, "and you will pay for it".
The other tribe at least tries to maintain a morality of humanity and to act consistent with the inclusive principles taught by their Godly-Man-Savior who is totally ignored by the regressive tribe in favor of flawed Greek metaphysics and Saul's self-serving system.
YOU MUST VOTE AGAINST THE GREATEST EVIL
Gunky
Well-Known Member
I suppose you are referring to that incident where she exaggerated/conflated/made stuff up about being under fire as she exited an airplane? Agreed, that was embarrassing but have you looked at the class of liar you are comparing Hillary to? We are talking world-class whopper telling, from the expert and practiced mouths of the likes of Trump, Cruz, Fiorina, Paul Ryan etc. Next to them Hillary is a small time, amateur spinner of mild fibs, more to be pitied than censured.
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Gunky
Well-Known Member
Everyone lies, ok? You, me, everybody. The question is not if but what sort of lies do we tell?
Twain on the Decay of the Art of Lying
lwien
Well-Known Member
I guess you have to add these past presidents to that list then:
Thomas Jefferson
Warren Harding
Franklin D. Roosevelt
Dwight Eisenhower
John Kennedy
and
Lyndon Johnson
And these are just the presidents that we know had extramarital affairs.
And then, if you want to add Senators and Congressmen to that list, well, there's just not enough space here to do that.
Gunky
Well-Known Member
Bill Clinton was one of the better presidents in my lifetime. He is not, however, running for office. Hillary Clinton is running. Why Hillary should be punished (again) for the sins of Bill is beyond me.
I like Hillary. It is not a matter of holding my nose and voting for her. I watched those recent congressional hearings very closely as well as the debates. Hillary really knows what she is talking about. She has a better overall handle on how the government works and how to make it work for us than any of the candidates of either party. Unlike Bernie, what she proposes actually has a realistic chance of happening. Similar but not identical to Bill Clinton, Hillary is a mainstream democrat. Would you not choose a mainstream democrat over Trump, Cruz, et al? Hint hint: Cruz is no friend to cannabis supporters.
I like Hillary. It is not a matter of holding my nose and voting for her. I watched those recent congressional hearings very closely as well as the debates. Hillary really knows what she is talking about. She has a better overall handle on how the government works and how to make it work for us than any of the candidates of either party. Unlike Bernie, what she proposes actually has a realistic chance of happening. Similar but not identical to Bill Clinton, Hillary is a mainstream democrat. Would you not choose a mainstream democrat over Trump, Cruz, et al? Hint hint: Cruz is no friend to cannabis supporters.
Farid
Well-Known Member
Hillary tries to use Bill's successes to her benefit, so she should have to answer for his failures as well. That's the thing about being a legacy president.
EDIT: I'm not talking about his infidelity. I'm talking about stuff like the bombing of the Al-Shifa pharmaceutical plant in Sudan, which empowered Al Qaeda, or the bombing of the Chinese embassy in Belgrade.
Not to mention Hillary's own fuck ups, including the absolutely botched invasion of Libya, and plans to arm Syrian rebels with close ties to Al Qaeda.
EDIT: I'm not talking about his infidelity. I'm talking about stuff like the bombing of the Al-Shifa pharmaceutical plant in Sudan, which empowered Al Qaeda, or the bombing of the Chinese embassy in Belgrade.
Not to mention Hillary's own fuck ups, including the absolutely botched invasion of Libya, and plans to arm Syrian rebels with close ties to Al Qaeda.
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CarolKing
Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
Everyone can choose to vote in an election or not. I take my voting privileges very serious. I usually participate in the caucus and vote in every presidential election. It gets frustrating at times watching how politics works but I can't see just giving up. I agree the country seems to be going in the wrong direction but not voting isn't the answer either.
I had such high hopes when Obama became president.
I had such high hopes when Obama became president.
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Gunky
Well-Known Member
You need to get out a little bit. Travel to some other countries. This is still the most powerful, wealthiest, most advanced country in the world. Our economy has weathered the Great Recession better than virtually any other country. Some parts of it are among the best places to live in the world. We probably have the largest areas of any country with legal weed. In case you haven't noticed, the whole immigration controversy exists because people abroad want to come here, not because people are leaving in droves. Many things are screwed up; they are not going to be fixed by folding one's hands and giving up.
grokit
well-worn member
I won't vote for hillary for the reason that it would be wasted. We have one electoral vote and it won't go to anybody named clinton period. Nader carried our town in 2000, that's how much that administration was disliked up here. And unlike sanders, she just doesn't inspire me enough to write her in symbolically. But it wouldn't surprise me in the least to see sanders get that lone electoral vote, even as a write-in himself if he doesn't win the nomination. I think that when the economy implodes this year it will be the mother of all meltdowns, and it's already started. Seriously; if you're still in the stock market I hope you're short selling, and don't have your retirement wrapped up in a blue-chip mutual fund. Market losses have already begun, and when wall street implodes it will dominate the news cycle over the presidential election. Quantitative easing has run its course, meaning the era of free money propping up the stock market is over. The obama economic policies that hillary is "banking" on have failed, and the biggest bubbles (student loans, commercial real estate, oil, the next home mortgage crisis) haven't even popped yet. Bernie or bust!
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His_Highness
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king
The right to vote was paid for by many who sacrificed their very lives. If you don't want to vote for a president then don't............BUT......... I would hope that you would exercise the right to vote for the rest of the ballot and in other non-presidency areas.
For those who think the US is beyond repair I'm happy to report that it is well ahead of what's in second place and always will be. Thanks to my stint in the Navy I got the opportunity to travel to most countries and can tell you that I did not exaggerate.
For those who think the US is beyond repair I'm happy to report that it is well ahead of what's in second place and always will be. Thanks to my stint in the Navy I got the opportunity to travel to most countries and can tell you that I did not exaggerate.
lwien
Well-Known Member
Totally agree. My years in the Air Force was a real eye-opener as well.
Whenever I travel abroad and I come back and the customs agent says to me, "Welcome home", I still get a bit teary eyed and think, "Yeah, no shit", and this is coming from someone who is not patriotic in the least.
grokit
well-worn member
^ I like the carlin angle 
The british pound is imploding as well, it just reached record lows vs. the euro and is projected to be the weakest currency of 2016. The era of free money is over, and it's time to pay the piper.
The british pound is imploding as well, it just reached record lows vs. the euro and is projected to be the weakest currency of 2016. The era of free money is over, and it's time to pay the piper.
lwien
Well-Known Member
Armageddon. OMG !!!
Run.......................................
Sorry steama but I see this kind of stuff all the time on FoxNews.........a la..........we're doomed. This kind of panic has existed forever. It's just keeps getting repeated with different names.
Farid
Well-Known Member
I was listening to NPR on my way back from class and they were saying that the independent vote in NH is split mostly between Kasich and Sanders, depending if they choose to vote in the Democrat or Republican primary. They also said that Hillary wants these independents to vote in the Republican primary. So I don't understand why people keep implying that Hillary is more Electable than Sanders... the data so far, shows the opposite is the case.
Adobewan
Well-Known Member
Hillary and Bernie: The Credibility Gap
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-l-borosage/hillary-and-bernie-the-cr_b_9038508.html
First two paragraphs...
Panic now grips the Clinton campaign. Polls show Bernie Sanders surging to a dramatic lead in New Hampshire and closing in Iowa. The Washington Post reports that Hillary's national numbers are dropping faster now than they did in 2008. The Clinton campaign has started throwing everything and the kitchen sink at Sanders, with the gutter award captured, thus far, by Senator Claire McCaskill who smeared him with the "hammer and sickle," transparently attributing the red-baiting to future Republican attacks of her own imagination.
But the question isn't what's wrong with Bernie -- he's soaring beyond all expectations. The question is what's wrong with Hillary? She has universal name recognition, unparalleled experience, the support of the big money and the political gatekeepers, the Hollywood glitz, the best political operatives, the pollsters, the ad makers, the establishment policy mavens, and political press coverage. Having learned from 2008, she's got the best ground operation in the history of Iowa caucuses that still may rescue her there. But she's sinking rapidly against a 73-year-old political maverick who is still just introducing himself to the American people.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-l-borosage/hillary-and-bernie-the-cr_b_9038508.html
First two paragraphs...
Panic now grips the Clinton campaign. Polls show Bernie Sanders surging to a dramatic lead in New Hampshire and closing in Iowa. The Washington Post reports that Hillary's national numbers are dropping faster now than they did in 2008. The Clinton campaign has started throwing everything and the kitchen sink at Sanders, with the gutter award captured, thus far, by Senator Claire McCaskill who smeared him with the "hammer and sickle," transparently attributing the red-baiting to future Republican attacks of her own imagination.
But the question isn't what's wrong with Bernie -- he's soaring beyond all expectations. The question is what's wrong with Hillary? She has universal name recognition, unparalleled experience, the support of the big money and the political gatekeepers, the Hollywood glitz, the best political operatives, the pollsters, the ad makers, the establishment policy mavens, and political press coverage. Having learned from 2008, she's got the best ground operation in the history of Iowa caucuses that still may rescue her there. But she's sinking rapidly against a 73-year-old political maverick who is still just introducing himself to the American people.
howie105
Well-Known Member
When you look at both parties you see more than the usual amount of disenchantment with the mainline party presentations. Which has played to the detriment of the more mainline candidates. What is amusing is that the alternatives are playing out so well in their respective parties. I suspect the party sages are still figuring out a way out.