The 2016 Presidential Candidates Thread

[lwien]

I think Kaine was deliberately set up/asked to perform the way he did and that the decision to hammer away at Trump's previous indiscretions/statements was the point from the start. I think he was asked to be more aggressive in his approach....

Which is the antithesis of what he is. He's a down home folksy kind of guy and it was obvious that we was not comfortable doing what he was asked (ordered) to do and therefore, came off as doing something that he wasn't totally committed to do. It was uncomfortable to watch right from the get-go.

 

[cybrguy]

Kaine is a loyal soldier for his candidate and will do what is best, first for the country and then for her. While Pence may be loyal to his party, he has virtually no loyalty to Trump, and I don't know how it could be any other way for him.

I truly believe that Trump is an abomination to Pence, and he is only using this opportunity to his own advantage. Pence wants to be President.

 

[macbill]

Clinton video slams Pence for Trump comments he denied

Hillary Clinton's campaign is going after Mike Pence's performance at the vice presidential debate in a new video, contrasting clips of controversial Donald Trump's statements with the Republican VP nominee's denials that Trump said them.

Maybe Kaine was setting up this ad....

 

[thisperson]

I wanted to share the interview that Jill Stein did with Ralph Nader on Sep 17. It was great. I think I'm throwing my vote away again. I can't stand either of these corporate shills. This thread (@CarolKing) has made me consider holding my nose and voting for Clinton, but every time I see a liberal news outlet covering another one of her scandals I get irked. One day, the voting public will vote for the policies they want, not just the two turds placed before them. That day will be glorious.

I really miss Bernie right about now.

Also I heard the VP debate was framed or constructed with republican viewpoints as the basis. That made me laugh. I saw a few clips of Kain getting questions. I thought the Hillary ad made after the VP debate was good too.

I just think that if you were to plot positions you would find that Donald Trump has something of value as does Clinton. Policy wise that is. Trump actually believes the TPP is a bad deal. From what I've gathered. Hillary I wouldn't trust her with that decision. And Trump believes in protectionism in Trade. Something I've firmly believed in since I heard of NAFTA taking out jobs. Clinton believes in raising the minimum wage and says she wants to improve healthcare. I'll believe her there. But Jill Stein is a bright beacon of light. Hear her out and give her a chance. Maybe Jill 2020?

 

[turk]

...jill is my candidate and a friend...I vote for those folks who share my values....it's really that simple...and I make NO apologies to anyone...if the dems don't like it...line forms to the right.

 

[Tranquility]

Trump actually believes the TPP is a bad deal. From what I've gathered. Hillary I wouldn't trust her with that decision. And Trump believes in protectionism in Trade. Something I've firmly believed in since I heard of NAFTA taking out jobs

Vanity Fair just had a wonderful (But short.) interview with Gary Hart. Even back then, he claims there is a break in the Democratic party in regards to free trade. http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/10/gary-hart-politics

My principal competition in the Democratic primary, Vice President [Walter] Mondale, and I ended up dividing the country. I won 25 states and he won 25 states. No journalist to my knowledge ever tried to figure out if there was a pattern there, but there definitely was. I carried almost every state that was benefitting from world trade—the West Coast and other parts of the country—and he got the support of those areas in decline. So it was kind of an earthquake inside the Democratic Party as to who was winning and who was losing.

 

[Silat]

1/ This debate will not change anyone's mind.

2/ Pence won by a hair.

3/ Pence was a gold medal winner for lying, denying and obfuscating.

4/ No truth could get under Mullah Pence's skin.

5/ Kaine did what he had to do. He got Pence to deny facts on the record. The TV ad that followed is very good.


Pence gets the meaningless small victory as he came across more polished like many TV evangelical extremists can.

Kaine had the truth but could not match the swarmy reaganesque performance of Mullah Pence.

 

[RUDE BOY]

^^ If you didn't call Pence a "Mullah" I would have liked this post... I'm pretty sure he knows little to nothing about Islamic beliefs or sacred law.

 

[cybrguy]

^^ If you didn't call Pence a "Mullah" I would have liked this post... I'm pretty sure he knows little to nothing about Islamic beliefs or sacred law.

I get your point, but I get Silat's too. Fundamentalism is fundamentalism. Doesn't matter a wit to me if it is Christian or Muslim.

 

[Farid]

The debate solidified my belief that Trump would be devastating to this country. But Pence won by a long shot. I am shocked at how weak and uncharasmatic Kane was. Clinton should have picked a strong charismatic VP. Kane comes off as more smug, and less well spoken than Clinton.

I am simply shocked and disgusted with the choices we have. Bomb Syria with Clinton, and Bomb Syria 2.0 with Trump. Johnson is getting my vote. At least he will listen to the generals when they say war with the Syrian Government would be madness:

@cybrguy implying being a Mullah automatically makes you a fundamentalist is offensive to me. Mullah Nasreddin is a comical character that my father used to read us stories about. He is not at all a fundamentalist (he is like a Mr. Bean type guy always getting into trouble)

From Wikipedia: The Nasreddin stories are known throughout the Middle East and have touched cultures around the world. Superficially, most of the Nasreddin stories may be told as jokes or humorous anecdotes. They are told and retold endlessly in the teahouses and caravanserais of Asia and can be heard in homes and on the radio. But it is inherent in a Nasreddin story that it may be understood at many levels. There is the joke, followed by a moral and usually the little extra which brings the consciousness of the potential mystic a little further on the way to realization.

Example of a story:
Once Nasreddin was invited to deliver a sermon. When he got on the pulpit, he asked, Do you know what I am going to say? The audience replied "no", so he announced, I have no desire to speak to people who don't even know what I will be talking about! and left.
The people felt embarrassed and called him back again the next day. This time, when he asked the same question, the people replied yes. So Nasreddin said, Well, since you already know what I am going to say, I won't waste any more of your time! and left.
Now the people were really perplexed. They decided to try one more time and once again invited the Mulla to speak the following week. Once again he asked the same question – Do you know what I am going to say? Now the people were prepared and so half of them answered "yes" while the other half replied "no". So Nasreddin said Let the half who know what I am going to say, tell it to the half who don't, and left.[22]

/offtopic

 

[cybrguy]

For those of you who truly believe that Johnson could be a decent President, I really think you need to put your thinking caps back on. The big mistakes he makes, like this one, really do disqualify him. Knowing geography is a bad thing for Presidents?

@cybrguy implying being a Mullah automatically makes you a fundamentalist is offensive to me.

Sorry if I offended you, that was certainly not my intention. I am not Silat, but I'm fairly confident he was not dissing Islam as I am not. I suspect he meant what I meant, that fundamentalism is the problem, not religion, and that Pence is a fundamentalist.

 

[Farid]

I would vote for any candidate who does not want to go to war in Syria. I could care less about anything else, that would be the most devastating mistake the next president could do. Look how the world is still hurting from the Iraq war. Johnson is the only option who would not go to war in Syria, so your point is moot.

Kane and Pence literally both said they will go to war against Syria and Russia.

 

[RUDE BOY]

I get your point, but I get Silat's too. Fundamentalism is fundamentalism. Doesn't matter a wit to me if it is Christian or Muslim.

Being considered a Mullah doesn't equate to fundamentalism, just as being a Catholic Priest doesn't equate with espousing liberation theology.

 

[cybrguy]

Is Bill Weld Having Second Thoughts About Teaming Up With Gary Johnson?
by Nancy LeTourneau
October 5, 2016 3:50 PM

While it has been mostly overlooked as a result of Donald Trump’s meltdown, Gary Johnson has been having his own share guffaws on the campaign trail lately. First there was his Aleppo moment, then what he himself called his other Aleppo moment. There was that whole bizarre tongue thing. And finally, yesterday he seemed to suggest that ignorance was a great basis for a sound foreign policy.

In the midst of all that, his running mate Bill Weld told Chuck Todd that, “I’m not sure anybody is more qualified than Hillary Clinton to be president of the United States.” Oops, sorry about that Gary. He took it a step farther yesterday according to Michael Levenson and Frank Phillips of the Boston Globe.

The Libertarian vice presidential candidate, William F. Weld, said Tuesday that he plans to focus exclusively on blasting Donald Trump over the next five weeks, a strategic pivot aimed at denying Trump the White House and giving himself a key role in helping to rebuild the GOP.

Weld’s comments in a Globe interview mark a major shift in his mission since he pledged at the Libertarian convention in May that he would remain a Libertarian for life and would do all he could to help elect his running mate, Gary Johnson, the former Republican governor of New Mexico…

While Weld insisted he still supports Johnson, he said he is now interested primarily in blocking Trump from winning the presidency and then potentially working with longtime Republican leaders such as Mitt Romney and Haley Barbour to create a new path for the party after the election.​

In other words, this Libertarian vice-presidential nominee is more interested in helping to rebuild the Republican Party post-Trump than he is in joining forces with his own (fairly unbalanced) running mate. Seems like that is something he should have thought about before he signed up, don’t you think? That’s why, in referring to Johnson’s missteps listed above, this commentary from Levinson and Phillips rings pretty hollow:

Those missteps — in sharp contrast to Weld’s smoother command of foreign affairs — have created some tensions on the ticket. Adding to the conflict are the accolades Weld has recieved from national political commentators who have dubbed him the more substantial and serious candidate, while ridiculing Johnson as a lightweight.​

Gary Johnson has been involved in politics for over 20 years now. If Weld didn’t know what he was getting in to by signing up to be his running mate a few months ago, it’s hard to see how he can be labeled “the more substantial one.”

 

[Silat]

^^ If you didn't call Pence a "Mullah" I would have liked this post... I'm pretty sure he knows little to nothing about Islamic beliefs or sacred law.

My sarcasm was perfect. He is every bit as extremist as his kissing cousins in that other Abrahamic religion.

Mike Pence
Christian Taliban
http://crooksandliars.com/2016/10/joy-reid-fugelsang-and-winstead-decrythe

So you think Pence is a nice guy and not a hardcore reich wing taliban extremist funded by the libertarian K0CHs?

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/08/mik...just-look-at-his-trail-of-victims-in-indiana/

During his six terms in the House, from 2001 to 2012, Pence checked off all the boxes: abstinence-only prevention; no rights or protections for LGBT people; no reform of drug laws or mass incarceration; no global warming; no evolution.
http://www.alternet.org/drugs/mike-pence-real-extremist-gop-ticket-trail-victims-indiana

Pence: Drumpf Administration Will Begin Fight Against Abortion Rights On Day One.

Mike Pence Lamented 'AIDS Activists' Speaking At GOP Convention, Published Anti-Gay Articles In Indiana Journal.

Happy Birthday Social Security—Let's Remember That Mike Pence Was A Cheerleader For The Program's Destruction.

FLASHBACK: Mike Pence Delivers Entire Speech Denying Evolution
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/category/people/mike-pence

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/10/her...know-about-mike-pence-before-tonights-debate/

Then there was the time he ran for Congress, and wanted the government to defund HIV programs and use the money instead for ex-gay conversion camps.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry...than-donald-trump_us_578d4ec7e4b05e7343a689b4

 

[Farid]

Did you even read that article? There is no evidence Weld is dropping out. He just said some things that were critical of Trump and praising of Clinton. Not really surprising considering they are trying to win over the Sanders supporters who are on the fence about voting Clinton. Attacking Clinton now wouldn't do the Johnson Weld ticket any good.

It's funny reading these articles considering who's writing them. Nancy LeTourneau has shown she is very supportive of Clinton. She has gone after Snowden before, and in general toes the party line.

Same can be said for nymag who published this embarrassingly bad article: http://nymag.com/daily/intelligence...-stop-trump-presidency.html?mid=twitter_nymag

 

[lwien]

At least he (Johnson) will listen to the generals when they say war with the Syrian Government would be madness:

No he won't because he doesn't stand a chance in hell to be in any position to listen or not to listen to the generals.

Johnson is the only option who would not go to war in Syria

Again, he will not be in any position to affect us going to war or not going to war.

 

[RUDE BOY]

My sarcasm was perfect. He is every bit as extremist as his kissing cousins in that other Abrahamic religion.

Oh I see. You believe anyone who believes and has knowledge of their faith is an extremist.

Then again I'm not saying Pence's view-points aren't extreme, I think they're backwards, narrow minded and filled with hate, bigotry and ignorance.

 

[Silat]

Oh I see. You believe anyone who believes and has knowledge of their faith is an extremist.

Then again I'm not saying Pence's view-points aren't extreme, I think they're backwards, narrow minded and filled with hate, bigotry and ignorance.

No. I believe Mike Pence is an extremist based on the facts.

 

[Farid]

No he won't because he doesn't stand a chance in hell to be in any position to listen or not to listen to the generals.



Again, he will not be in any position to affect us going to war or not going to war.

Well it's Johnson or I don't vote. And you and others before gave me such a hard time when I entertained that possibility. I will not vote for somebody who is running on a platform that includes invading Syira and possibly starting a war with Russia. Trump and Clinton both support such action.

Watch the VP debate and tell me with a straight face that you didn't witness the two VP candidates competing to prove they were more hawkish against Russia and the Syrian government.

 

[cybrguy]

Pence actually has a subliminal tug on people in their 60s who may have watched cartoons as kids. There is no way to not see Pence in this guy, and subliminal memory can be a powerful mechanism...

I will give it a half , but only half...

 

[grokit]

 

[cybrguy]

It's funny reading these articles considering who's writing them. Nancy LeTourneau has shown she is very supportive of Clinton. She has gone after Snowden before, and in general toes the party line.

Same can be said for nymag who published this embarrassingly bad article: http://nymag.com/daily/intelligence...-stop-trump-presidency.html?mid=twitter_nymag

Right, because anyone who supports Clinton shouldn't be allowed to be a blogger or a writer.

 

[Silat]

Well it's Johnson or I don't vote. And you and others before gave me such a hard time when I entertained that possibility. I will not vote for somebody who is running on a platform that includes invading Syira and possibly starting a war with Russia. Trump and Clinton both support such action.

Watch the VP debate and tell me with a straight face that you didn't witness the two VP candidates competing to prove they were more hawkish against Russia and the Syrian government.

Can you provide evidence that Clinton wants to start a war with Russia?

 

[lwien]

Well it's Johnson or I don't vote. And you and others before gave me such a hard time when I entertained that possibility. I will not vote for somebody who is running on a platform that includes invading Syira and possibly starting a war with Russia. Trump and Clinton both support such action.

Let me ask you a question. What purpose does it serve to vote for Johnson? I'm not trying to give you a hard time, Farid. I'm just trying to understand. Why vote for a candidate that can't win? Again, what purpose does that serve?

Can you provide evidence that Clinton wants to start a war with Russia?

Silat, @Farid never said that Clinton WANTS to start a war with Russia. He said that Clintons penchant for invading Syria "could" start a war with Russia.