The 2016 Presidential Candidates Thread

Silat

Silat

When the Facts Change, I Change My Mind.
Edited for brevity:)
lwien said:
And now..........the following clip that was aired on CNN is what Fox was referring to in the article above, yet in the clip Bernie, rather than feeling "berned", actually agreed with Clintons remarks, which of course, FOX never mentions. Here's that clip from the "State of the Union" interview:


Unfuckingbelievable. Talk about taking things out of context and not only out of context but applying his answer to a totally different question. I guess FOX is banking on the fact that none of their viewers watch CNN or will google the interview....:rolleyes:.......:doh:

Fox stated that Bernie felt burned about Clintons remarks about his young supporters and THAT is totally false. He NEVER said that or even implied that. He actually agreed with her.
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Now you have done it. You will have hurt the feelings of reich wingers because you used those damn pesky FACTS. :)
 
gangababa

gangababa

Well-Known Member
This life's experience has watched Republicans and voted Democratic since Nixon's secret '68 end-the-war plan (a lie, like Trump's Isishit). I shamefully admit to voting 3rd party in '76; I was duped.

Otherwise, I have had two ongoing, objectively verifiable, repeating experiences in life.
Or more accurately, two patterns of worldly interactions.

First, an inexplicable ability to fix failed electrical or mechanical systems without doing anything; actually just my hands off presence.

That minutely mystical magic pales in comparison to my second ability to end threads simply using the opponents' premises, correct logic and objective facts. Minds are not changed, but the Gandhian "Truth" triumphs as surely as gravity. Those who push against Tao will learn that the objective world won't tolerate extreme subjectivity*. Push against truth hard enough and bent reality will rebound with punishing force.

This is an interesting personal essay, inspired by a New York Times article about Trump-voting evangelical Christians in Iowa and their personal exposure to the unbendable objective world, not inbred/imbued within their small subjective worlds.
"So if you're looking at these two candidates through the eyes of Christianity, one of these candidates has an unyielding fealty to advancing his own interest no matter what the cost to others, while one of them has a proven devotion to bettering humanity. "

Read it and then peruse this article about the beginning of the USA evangelical/ Republican cabal, based in racism not abortion.
"But the abortion myth quickly collapses under historical scrutiny. In fact, it wasn’t until 1979—a full six years after Roe—that evangelical leaders, at the behest of conservative activist Paul Weyrich, seized on abortion not for moral reasons, but as a rallying-cry to deny President Jimmy Carter a second term. Why? Because the anti-abortion crusade was more palatable than the religious right’s real motive: protecting segregated schools. So much for the new abolitionism."

*Obama derangement syndrome is recent manifestation of extreme subjectivity and objective disconnect.
As is this individual who "... like so many she had gotten to know online through social media, she also believed that he (Obama) was likely gay, that Michelle Obama could be a man, and that the Obama children were possibly kidnapped from a family now searching for them."
 
ClearBlueLou

ClearBlueLou

unbearably light in the being....
Iron Curtain fell in LATE 80s,
Operation Rescue, moral majority & fellow-travelers were ten years earlier - after 15 years of equivalent opposition to contraception (birth control).

purpose the same w/ abortion and birth-control, to shame sexually-active unmarried women, to punish them for being so, and to return women again to a role of relative subjugation and dependence, by refusing to demonize and shame the male playmates of these women - equivalent to being found guilty of receiving a bribe another was acquitted of offering....
 
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Tranquility

Tranquility

Well-Known Member
ClearBlueLou said:
Respectfully suggest that your pension-fund example is exactly OPPOSITE of what the GOP congress has imposed on the USPS: they must put aside the cash equivalent of ((retirement benefit $ * 75 years) * every current postal employee)) - that is not a fund such as you speak of: it's paying everyone's FULLEST PENSION UP FRON, IN CASH - OR ELSE.

The reason is because the USPS is explicitly mandated as a service the Federal government shall provide - that makes it hard for the constitution-loving patriots in Congress to kill it and privatize it, so they're trying to make it strangle itself.

Reminder: "ownership society" does not mean 'everybody gets to own a piece'; it means 'everyone and everything gets owned'.

--
BTW, the wealth agents in command of the US govt have no problem with unfunded pension plans: corporations are allowed to invalidate and repudiate and renege on pension obligations all the time here. And so, hate the government...and make them even less able to protect us from their feudal overlords....
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If the 2006 law is not followed, the unfunded pension of the USPS would be about $100 billion by the end of the decade. Because of the USPS declining revenue, there will be even less available for the post office to fund its retirement fund to the same levels required of other funds.

The real debate gets to the core of the issue. Who should pay for a person's retirement? The person or everyone else? Yes, the capital requirements placed on the postal service retirement and medical care funds (Actually, probably the thing you are thinking of where there does seem to be a need for a fix that some say needs to be done in regards to potential requirements for people not even hired as yet.) will prevent some other spending to increase those benefits and salaries. But, it will help ensure the funds are there when the employees retire without having to ask the rest of us if we want to kick in.
 
cybrguy

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
I truly believe the media should take a lot of responsibility for where we are today. Donald Trump is as much a creation of the media as he is anything. Going back to the 80s all the way up to the point where Donald created the birtherism meme Donald was mostly a figure of derision that the media trotted out when they wanted to exemplify excess and self indulgence. He was a sexist narcissistic punchline. He was the epitome of the Playboy magazine wet dream, rich, sexist, perverse, empowered, did I say rich? In some ways we all wanted to be that Playboy Mag hero, but nearly all of us knew we wouldn't, even if we could. It was a fantasy. And it had a dark side.

In this election the talking heads are still irrationally afraid to point their critical powers of observation at only one candidate, even when it is clearly only one candidate who is an obnoxious asshole. They think, using an old school and no longer applicable standard, that all politicians behave the same general way, and if they point attention at one they are favoring (or condemning) him or her in some way unfairly. They think (or at least they say) that they must maintain their objectivity. But objectivity does NOT require you to close your eyes (or your brain) and ignore what is right before your face. Ignoring what you actually see serves no one. When your job is to report, that is a lie just as sure as what is coming out of Donald's mouth.

We really have to work on the bothsiderism bullshit. We absolutely have to look at both sides, that should be given. But we DON'T have to equate them unless they are actually the same. And it is not doing the American people, many of whom are only paying attention with one eye while the other is watching their life, any favor at all. We rely on the press to do the digging and then present us with what they have found. What they have ACUTALLY found, not what it looks like after they have adjusted it to fit their own economic or political sensitivities.

There are a number of things in this election while not all new, have certainly been amplified in this go around, like bothsiderism. I am really hopeful if Hillary wins that we can work on some of this stuff between elections.
 
macbill

macbill

Oh No! Mr macbill!!
Staff member
OldNewbie said:
it will help ensure the funds are there when the employees retire without having to ask the rest of us if we want to kick in.
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I wish congress would do that for themselves: they don't even pay Social Security - they have their OWN plan.

get
 
cybrguy

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
macbill said:
I wish congress would do that for themselves: they don't even pay Social Security - they have their OWN plan.
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Which is completely funded by us as we pay their salary. So it doesn't really matter which pocket the money comes from directly, as it is all coming from ours anyway. Yes, a fund could get some interest but it would just get raided when they felt like it anyway... :(
 
Tranquility

Tranquility

Well-Known Member
macbill said:
I wish congress would do that for themselves: they don't even pay Social Security - they have their OWN plan.
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Congress exempts itself from any of a number of laws it forces on the rest of us. One Hail Mary the Republicans tried to stop the Affordable Care Act was to put up an amendment it would apply to Congress as well.

That was giggled down pretty fast by our betters.
 
cybrguy

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
Clinton Foundation Attacks Boomerang on Trump
by Martin Longman
October 3, 2016 3:13 PM

The Republicans and Donald Trump (with a major assist from the newspapers) threw a patty cake punch at the Clinton Foundation and came up with nothing but air. The counterpunch was strong and has landed with a thud.

The Trump Foundation must stop fundraising immediately, the New York attorney general’s office said Monday.

The state’s attorney general has notified Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump that his charitable foundation is violating New York law because it does not have the proper certification to solicit donations, The Washington Post first reported.

James Sheehan, head of the attorney general’s charities bureau, sent the notice to the foundation on Friday.

The notice follows a story that The Washington Post published last week that showed the foundation had been soliciting donations without being properly registered in New York state.​

I doubt that Trump much cares that he can’t do any more fundraising for charity using his Donald J. Trump Foundation, but he’s got to be concerned about this:

The Trump Foundation never registered under article 7A of New York’s Executive Law, according to the Post, as is required for any charity asking for more than $25,000 per year from the public.

That means Trump’s foundation has avoided any of the outside audits New York law requires of larger charities.

“The Trump Foundation must immediately cease soliciting contributions or engaging in any other fundraising activities in New York,” Sheehan wrote to the Trump Foundation.

Schneiderman ordered the foundation supply the state all the legal paperwork required of charities that solicit money from the public within 15 days, according to the Post.

The foundation must also provide all financial audit reports it should have provided in previous years.​

Considering the fact that it’s now clear that Trump has used his foundation as a slush fund to hide income, avoid taxes, make illegal political contributions, spend other people’s money to falsely make himself look like a philanthropist and to give himself gifts, I can’t imagine that he will want to provide the New York attorney general with “all the financial audit reports it should have provided in previous years.”

The lesson?

Don’t throw a punch if you’re not prepared to take one in return.

:rofl:
 
macbill

macbill

Oh No! Mr macbill!!
Staff member
I bet there is a good chance The Donald won't want to do a Town-Hall type debate. He might get asked very embarrassing questions.

============================================

At The VP Debate, Mike Pence Should Be Asked About Anti-LGBT "Religious Freedom" Laws

In March 2015, Pence signed Indiana's "Religious Freedom Restoration Act" (RFRA) into law, a move The New York Times called the “most consequential - and controversial” decision Pence made as governor. The law -- which was criticized by religious leaders, members of the business community, legal scholars, and even the Republican mayor of Indianapolis -- provided a legal defense for individuals and business owners who cite their religious beliefs while discriminating against LGBT people.
 
cybrguy

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
If only Donald were capable of being embarrassed.

I bet his kids can be embarrassed for him, tho. They seem to be relatively normal human beings for folks who grew up with such entitlement and in his shadow...

No, on second thought maybe not so normal.
 
Tranquility

Tranquility

Well-Known Member
cybrguy said:
Clinton Foundation Attacks Boomerang on Trump
by Martin Longman
October 3, 2016 3:13 PM

The Republicans and Donald Trump (with a major assist from the newspapers) threw a patty cake punch at the Clinton Foundation and came up with nothing but air. The counterpunch was strong and has landed with a thud.

The Trump Foundation must stop fundraising immediately, the New York attorney general’s office said Monday.

The state’s attorney general has notified Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump that his charitable foundation is violating New York law because it does not have the proper certification to solicit donations, The Washington Post first reported.

James Sheehan, head of the attorney general’s charities bureau, sent the notice to the foundation on Friday.

The notice follows a story that The Washington Post published last week that showed the foundation had been soliciting donations without being properly registered in New York state.​

I doubt that Trump much cares that he can’t do any more fundraising for charity using his Donald J. Trump Foundation, but he’s got to be concerned about this:

The Trump Foundation never registered under article 7A of New York’s Executive Law, according to the Post, as is required for any charity asking for more than $25,000 per year from the public.

That means Trump’s foundation has avoided any of the outside audits New York law requires of larger charities.

“The Trump Foundation must immediately cease soliciting contributions or engaging in any other fundraising activities in New York,” Sheehan wrote to the Trump Foundation.

Schneiderman ordered the foundation supply the state all the legal paperwork required of charities that solicit money from the public within 15 days, according to the Post.

The foundation must also provide all financial audit reports it should have provided in previous years.​

Considering the fact that it’s now clear that Trump has used his foundation as a slush fund to hide income, avoid taxes, make illegal political contributions, spend other people’s money to falsely make himself look like a philanthropist and to give himself gifts, I can’t imagine that he will want to provide the New York attorney general with “all the financial audit reports it should have provided in previous years.”

The lesson?

Don’t throw a punch if you’re not prepared to take one in return.

:rofl:
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Truthiness: At least a greater percentage of Trump's foundation goes to charitable purpose over the Clinton foundation preferred "executive compensation" and "other salaries and wages". (In addition to the Clinton family, think Sidney Blumenthal and other names you've heard associated.)

Clinton:
https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/311580204

Trump:
https://projects.propublica.org/nonprofits/organizations/133404773
 
CarolKing

CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
Trump, give me a break or should I say give the American people a break. Making fun of a 69 year old woman with pneumonia walking to her car, just let it go.:rant:

He doesn't seem to be a very good businessman with that almost a billion dollars in a loss for one year.

Folks have been putting up with this narcissistic, bigoted asshole for over a year and most sane people are sick of him.:bang:

I say thank you Alec Baldwin for being spot on with the Trump parody.:2c:

Edit
Wouldn't that be something if Marla Maples released those copies of the taxes to the media?

Why would Trump suggest Hillary has been unfaithful to Bill? When would she have time? She is a 69 year old grandmother.
Trump is probably the one being unfaithful to his wife. Shes 45 now getting middle aged, he likes his women young.
It would probably be more likely that Malania is screwing the pool boy.
I don't think Malania wants to be a First Lady.
 
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Silat

Silat

When the Facts Change, I Change My Mind.
ClearBlueLou said:
Iron Curtain fell in LATE 80s,
Operation Rescue, moral majority & fellow-travelers were ten years earlier - after 15 years of equivalent opposition to contraception (birth control).

purpose the same w/ abortion and birth-control, to shame sexually-active unmarried women, to punish them for being so, and to return women again to a role of relative subjugation and dependence, by refusing to demonize and shame the male playmates of these women - equivalent to being found guilty of receiving a bribe another was acquitted of offering....
Click to expand...

I remember it a bit differently. Apparently I am off a few years. But according to historical timelines the real push started after Carter. Yes Operation Rescue etc were years before but the full push happened during Reagans term. During Carters term the religious taliban was mostly concerned with keeping segregation alive. At least that is my recollection. I could be wrong.
Here is a pretty good timeline:
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/05/religious-right-real-origins-107133?o=0
 
Silat,
cybrguy

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
Alex Jones is complaining that they were "wikirolled". I gotta say I am entertained. Couldn't happen to a greater bunch of guys...
 
lwien

lwien

Well-Known Member
Yup. I bet there are a bunch of Trumpers really pissed thinking that this October surprise would put an end to Hillarys campaign. Previously, they were banking on her getting indicted.

Latest polls show Clinton extending her lead to 5 points nationwide and putting a total stop to Trumps previous momentum. And this poll was taken BEFORE his 1995 tax info was released and before he said that Hillary was probably cheating on Bill.

Trump is done.............over.....and out!!!! :cheers:

I wonder if after she gets elected, the GOP will try to initiate some trumped up (pardon the play on words) impeach proceedings. I just hope that the Dems win back one of the houses, otherwise, she's going to be more stymied than Obama ever was, as if it could get any worse.
 
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cybrguy

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
Trump Isn’t Just Having a Bad Week. He’s Being Exposed
by Nancy LeTourneau
October 4, 2016 10:04 AM

The media narrative about what has happened in this presidential election is that, since his abysmal performance in the first debate, Donald Trump is having “a bad week.” The implication is that the Republican nominee could bounce back into this race if he can manage to pull off “a good week.” It also suggests that having “a bad week” is what happened to Trump – rather than it being something he created. All of that is total nonsense.

It’s true that Trump performed horribly in the first debate. But to have watched the candidate over the last few months should have given us a clue about what was coming. As many have noted, Trump has been feeding off the frenzy of the crowds who attend his rallies. In a debate where the audience is restrained and there to observe, he had none of that to draw from. So we got to watch him go one-on-one with Hillary Clinton. Of course she baited him into showing his true colors. But his reaction simply demonstrated that he has no self-control. He has three choices about how to handle subsequent debates:

  1. Repeat his loss of control from the first debate,
  2. Try to go toe-to-toe with Clinton on a discussion of policies, or
  3. Attack viciously.
None of those are likely to go well for the Republican nominee.

But something bigger happened that led to the wheels coming off the Trump campaign. As many people (including me) suggested, he made a huge mistake when he Rick-rolled the press by teasing them with the idea that he was going to make a major announcement about his birther views and then using their coverage to sell his hotel as well as his own candidacy. That incident not only exposed the lies he’s been telling about things like his role in birtherism, it gave the media pause in how they were covering this campaign…and they switched gears.

Up until that moment, the press continued to cling to their both-sider-ism. Remember that many of them were feverishly trying to find something nefarious about the operations of the Clinton Foundation while Donald Trump’s business practices as well as his own foundation were getting pretty scant attention. The Public Editor of the New York Times even defended all of that. In addition, major media outlets were shy about using the “L” word when it came to Donald Trump. All of that changed when he decided to toy with them.

What we’re witnessing right now is that publications like the NYT went on record to say that they would call out Trump’s lies. As a result, we saw an explosion of stories that chronicled them. And reporters are tripping over themselves trying to uncover the next bomb-shell about his business and charitable practices. We’ve seen stories about his business losses and failure to pay any taxes, his violation of U.S. laws related to the Cuba embargo, that his foundation never obtained a state license for soliciting charitable donations, that he did business with an Iranian bank U.S. officials have charged with having ties to terrorism and several stories about his sexism towards employees. The latest revelation comes from Rebecca Berg, who documents that Trump used foundation funds for his 2016 presidential run.

That check is one of at least several donations to suggest Trump used his private foundation, funded by outside donors, to launch and fuel his political ambitions. Such contributions, if they were made solely for Trump’s benefit, could violate federal self-dealing laws for private foundations.

From 2011 through 2014, Trump harnessed his eponymous foundation to send at least $286,000 to influential conservative or policy groups, a RealClearPolitics review of the foundation’s tax filings found. In many cases, this flow of money corresponded to prime speaking slots or endorsements that aided Trump as he sought to recast himself as a plausible Republican candidate for president.​

We’re also seeing an explosion of people coming forward to tell their personal stories about how they were treated by Donald Trump – from reporters to contractors.

While the candidate is the one responsible for losing his cool in the first debate and continuing the meltdown afterwards, Trump has a point when he blames the media for their role in his demise. He may have been able to play them all the way through mid-September. But since then they’ve started telling us the real story about Donald Trump. It’s not a pretty picture. That’s not simply a matter of a bad week. It is about America learning that one of their presidential candidates is unfit for the office he seeks.
 
cybrguy,
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