The 2016 Presidential Candidates Thread

lwien

Well-Known Member
"...described this plane as arriving in the dead of night with the money, exactly the scenario that Donald Trump was criticized for describing three times this week".


He said that he SAW what you are describing above and in fact, he never saw any such thing, which he finally admitted to, so no, what Trump initially said was NOT RIGHT. As far as the Iranians getting 400 million dollars in cash, this was reported wayyyyy before Trump ever mentioned it.
 
lwien,

grokit

well-worn member
He said that he SAW what you are describing above and in fact, he never saw any such thing, which he finally admitted to, so no, what Trump initially said was NOT RIGHT. As far as the Iranians getting 400 million dollars in cash, this was rerouted wayyyyy before Trump ever mentioned it.
Why couldn't he have seen the iranian documentary in question?

"...the documentary begins with a narration saying:

'In the early morning hours of January 17, 2016 at Mehrabad Airport, $400 million in cash was transported to Iran on an airplane.'"

It aired back in february, just wasn't in our msm.

:myday:
 
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grokit,

ReggieB

Well-Known Member
What I meant was that it was money that already belonged to the iranians :) regardless of the content, I would expect anything from the DM to be suspect in one form or another unless it could be verified somewhere more reputable.
 
ReggieB,
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CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
A Conversation Between Donald and Melania Trump? - Huffington Post
Huffington Post › andy-ostroy › a-conve...
May 31, 2016 - I don't want to be president, Melania! ... you always say 'When Trump calls and asks people to do ...

This is funny and worth the read.
:D
CK
Edit
The money the Iranians received was their money. We've rehashed this out. I don't agree with all of this but it's done. It makes things look really bad all of the Iranian transaction of hostages and paying them back all the same day. It's just more ammunition for the other side.
 
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yogoshio

Annoying Libertarian
What I meant was that it was money that already belonged to the iranians :) regardless of the content, I would expect anything from the DM to be suspect in one form or another unless it could be verified somewhere more reputable.

So the only time a Dem regrets taking and holding on to someone else's money is when its going to fund terrorism, I get it now!!:rofl:
 
yogoshio,
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gangababa

Well-Known Member

Interesting late line in the (popular Palin site for self-promotion) Daily Mail story at the link

"The February Iranian TV documentary also said Republicans including Trump could learn the details of the one-sided prisoner swap in order to damage the eventual Democratic nominee's chances in the November election."
(Remember this is Iranian spin, though some iranamuck (sic) Americans seem to trust 'not-Americans' more than their own leaders; sick!*

Russia and Iran are aligned.
Who showed Trump the Iranian TV story from 6 months ago?
Is Trump that interested in geopolitical-international relations and news to have seen it sooner?
Is this recently shown to him by Trumps Kremlin-supporting and supported advisors?

*Google tom cotton letter iran
 

yogoshio

Annoying Libertarian
Not you, just the idea in general. An arms deal before a coup 40 years ago just so happening to coinside with a prisoner release with a terrorist state. The optics couldn't get any worse.

That, and I thought Dems knew best what to do with other people's money.
 

yogoshio

Annoying Libertarian
My point being, this is the first time I've ever heard a leftist politician say that money in the holdings of the government is someone else's as opposed to being owned and properly owed, if not even originating from the government itself.

Just like Clinton would never have sounded so economically centrist if she hadn't had gone up against Sanders.
 

ReggieB

Well-Known Member
Not you, just the idea in general. An arms deal before a coup 40 years ago just so happening to coinside with a prisoner release with a terrorist state. The optics couldn't get any worse.

That, and I thought Dems knew best what to do with other people's money.
Iran is a difficult one, given that the uk/cia acknowledge that they interfered in another nations right to rule itself, not a dig, just an observation, things could have turned out a lot different.
 

Silat

When the Facts Change, I Change My Mind.
Could Trump have been right?
Propaganda film suggests Iran DID videotape cash-drop plane and photograph shipment of cash during January prisoner swap


"Iranian state-run media in Tehran did indeed videotape the arrival of a January 17 flight carrying $400 million in cash from the United States – and the money itself – judging from a documentary that aired the following month in the Islamic republic."

36E7DDD300000578-3725770-image-a-18_1470413299219.jpg

  • February documentary that aired on Iranian state-run TV shows nighttime flight, pallet of cash matching prisoner-swap scenario reported this week
  • Donald Trump claimed three times this week that he had seen similar footage and that Iran had filmed the cash transfer to embarrass America
  • He walked back that claim Friday morning, saying he had only seen archival footage of a different plane delivering hostages safely to Geneva
  • He may have been right without knowing it: Propaganda broadcast shows the images and boasts the deal was great for Iran but terrible for the U.S.
more:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...raph-shipment-cash-January-prisoner-swap.html

:myday:
No he is not correct.
 

Snappo

Caveat Emptor - "A Billion People Can Be Wrong!"
Accessory Maker
I believe the cash drop was a provision of the previous deal and the timing was coincidental. Had nothing to do with the swap. At least that's what the pres said.
^^I am relieved for the returned hostages and their families. Using an enemy's own money for so many years and then in the final measure leveraging it against them even more for our own good can't be all bad, eh?
 
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CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
estate agent looks to capitalize on exodus of Americans to Canada
billboard-730x430.jpg

The Internet is inundated with various real estate agents wanting to sell your home just in case you want to migrate to Canada. A warmer climate like the Bahamas sounds nice to me. A home on the beach. Weed is legal there too now.
 

CuckFumbustion

Lo and Behold! The transformative power of Vapor.
Reminds me of the way Kirk and Harvy Mudd fried the brains of the androids in an episode of TOS...
Always got a kick out of that it in the original series when Captain Kirk would cause a robot or computer to overload with some sort of mindfuck and cause them to meltdown. :lmao: That was one of the best examples. Right down to the smoke rolling out of ears of the android. Watched your clip at least 3x. Consider your post triple liked! That made my day.
We apparently disagree so I will just leave it at this:
"A Day In The Life" (of a Libertarian)
(Apologies to Lennon/McCartney)
"He read Ayn Rand today oh boy
About a selfish prick who made the grade
And though the man was rather sad
Well I just had to laugh
He sounded halfway daft
He had a heart made out of stone
He didn't care that some were hungry now
A crowd of people stood and stared
They'd seen his face before
Nobody was really sure
If he was spawned from hell's hot floor?
I saw a film today oh boy
Based on a behemoth by Ms. Ayn Rand
A crowd of critics turned away
But I just had to look
Having just read Rand's book
So full of lowbrow schlock.
"Woke up, fell out of bed
Dragged a comb across his head
Found his way downstairs and turned on FOX
And angrily he pulled on both his socks
Found his hat and grabbed his cane
So the homeless he could brain
Found his way to work and had a smoke
And someone spoke and he dreamt of Atlas Shrugged."
I read Ayn Rand this year oh boy
Four thousand pages of puerile hot air
And though her thoughts were rather small
Some fools are still in awe
Now they know how many moochers they can look down on
They'd love to turn you on . . . ."
With apologies to the Beatles. :D I don't entirety believe in any bill of goods myself and I am my own skeptic. But I also have been familer with the different shades of that particular political philosophy since it was introduced to me in the 80's. There are several interpretations and even more misinterpretations of that set of beliefs. What I got out of it were some of the points that I made earlier and that it makes for a good comparison/contrast to the other philosophies being peddled by the other two parties. Frankly, All of them sound a little crackpot in their entirety. We don't really have a Democracy by definition It is some sort of hodgepodge mixed with a Representative democracy. But if you have a more refined interpretation of what we have, I'd be open to hear it.

When the Soviet Union collapsed, Russian citizens were unprepared to do basic things like look for a job because Mother Russia told them where to work and other things we Americans have a basic understanding of. Filling out a Resume/CV applying for a job. etc. Choosing where to buy food instead of the state store with it's empty shelves etc. Except for say the black market. Only the more business savvy (like say those same black marketeers) to begin with were able to make the transition. The poor and uninformed were unprepared for such a dramatic change after all of those decades of tyranny. Anybody painting with a broad brush who didn't agree with the basic tenants of 'socialism' could say the soviets tried it and failed. (I strongly disagree with those people. BTW ) What happened was an Oligarchy that raised it's citizens like sheep. When external competitive economic forces made it harder for their society to keep up, it was scrapped for the current system (of tyranny). They were probably better off with a Czar.

We might Be at a somewhat similar crossroad. We want to keep what 'makes america great' but external economic forces are having their impact on our economy. (Which also explains the current rash of nativism push back occurring in several countries trying to sort things out.) But not anywhere near as dramatic as what happened in the Soviet Union back in the day. There is reemerging expanding global economy, and it is having an impact on us and our politics right now. We are going to have to make some sort of adjustment for how the future economic landscape will be like with it's impact thrust upon us. The difference here is that we have a larger percentage of people who are ready to make way for all this instead of burying our heads in the sand.

I am always looking on the horizon for the next best idea. Like keep Social security with all the trimmings, but allow ordinary people the option to invest say 8 - 10% of their holdings within the security umbrella of the federal government. There is very little risk and the individual can actually invest without the fear of economic collapse. They have a reason to be engaged in the country's economic affairs and have a small amount of power to boot. It has to be better than US bonds.

I'm not part of the throw the baby out with the bathwater crowd myself. But there has to be a way to measure whether a program is reaching it's intended impact. SS, Planned Parenthood, Public Education should always be there as a baseline. So let's protect those programs and try to get the best bang for our buck out of all of them. So much money is lost just shifting money from one dept to another. We can at least streamline the system and make it more transparent. Which I am in favor of regardless or in regards to what hodgepodge we are running right now. Find the redundancies of administrations, etc..
Many Libertarians who were former Dems and Reps, know all about how the sausage is really made and are quick to point out their inerrencys. Not the shrill stuff that is mouth breathed on the networks. Read a little more on the subject and then make an informed decision ....
or forget all that and make a song parody. ;)

Thanks all fellow FCer's for helping me keep whats left of my sanity this campaign season, keeping all of us informed on the goings on outside world of our Vape Utopia at FC. ;) and having these type of discussions and keeping a sense of humor about it. You all rock. :rockon:
 
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cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
Trump and Nukes are Scary. But His Danger to the Climate Is Worse.
by David Atkins
August 6, 2016 4:53 PM
DonaldHeadSquare.jpg

There has been a lot of focus on the danger of nuclear weapons falling into the hands of Donald Trump, a man who seems genuinely confused about why he wouldn’t be allowed to use them. Rightly so, of course: the greatest threat to human civilization and all life on earth remains nuclear annihilation, and all it takes to precipitate armageddon is for the a major arsenal to fall into the hands of a madman.

That said, the second greatest danger to civilization and life on planet Earth remains climate change. Unfortunately, the spectacle of the presidential campaign has served to push some terrifying climate change-related headlines to the back pages when they should be three-alarm front page news.

The world is warming even faster than the already-parabolic rate climate scientists were expecting. The Arctic is thawing at unprecedented alarming rates. We are in the fifteenth straight month of record-breaking global temperatures. Climate change is having bizarre and unexpected consequences like releasing permafrost anthrax and Cold-War era toxic waste.

In short, we are learning that the consequences of climate change are far more dire and happening faster than we expected, which is starting to become an old refrain.

The world is careening towards an environment never experienced before by humans, with the temperature of the air and oceans breaking records, sea levels reaching historic highs and carbon dioxide surpassing a key milestone, a major international report has found.

The “state of the climate” report, led by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (Noaa) with input from hundreds of scientists from 62 countries, confirmed there was a “toppling of several symbolic mileposts” in heat, sea level rise and extreme weather in 2015.

“The impacts of climate change are no longer subtle,” Michael Mann, a leading climatologist at Penn State, told the Guardian. “They are playing out before us, in real time. The 2015 numbers drive that home.”​

Very few countries are doing remotely enough about the problem, locked as we are into an outdated competitive Westphalian system where no individual country wants to put their own economy at a disadvantage compared to others. Thus we get climate agreements that take weak and far-too-slow steps toward a problem that is has already accelerated to a global crisis.

That said, President Obama has been aggressive in tackling climate change in many important ways, including efforts at energy conservation both great and small. His administration has pursued dozens of rules and regulations designed to quietly reduce emissions in spite of a Republican Congress that not only refuses to do something about climate change, but remains steadfastly ignorant about the problem at all.

In this respect, Donald Trump doesn’t represent a greater threat to climate security than almost any other Republican would have been: even the mainstream GOP is dangerously reckless in ignoring our climate crisis. But Trump is a willfully ignorant climate denier who actively campaigns on drilling more oil faster. Four to eight years of a Trump presidency could easily lock in temperature rises that could without exaggeration reach levels that doom human civilization within a couple of generations.

That is an unacceptable outcome. Donald Trump and the GOP wouldn’t need to launch a single nuclear warhead to destroy life on earth as we know it. All they would need is to implement the energy policy they are openly advertising to voters.
 

BD9

Well-Known Member
For some reason my 'likes' are not sticking... posts that I 'like' are not staying liked...

Anyway, I know I'm late to the party on Assange, but all I know of him is he was accused of molestation and rape in Sweden and his ego is as big as drumpfs.
IMHO, Assange could be jeopardizing the safety of some operatives I think @lwien alluded to this as well. I feel that some things should be made public, but I also think he should not have a carte blanche in posting everything that he gets.
I wonder if he is posting the DNC/Clinton emails as he receives them or reading them then posting. Could he, or his staff, be altering the emails?

Seems that Kasich is now saying that trump jr.'s VP offer really did happen.

LINK
 

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
Virtual Insanity
by D.R. Tucker
August 7, 2016 7:30 AM

Remember when Dr. Alvin Poussaint, the acclaimed Harvard Medical School psychiatry professor, argued that racism should be considered a form of mental illness? I could never figure out why Poussaint’s contention was considered controversial; it struck me as basic common sense that hatred based on race or culture is incompatible with rational thinking.

Nearly two decades after Dr. Poussaint’s proclamation, a case can be made that the support unqualified Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump still enjoys from nearly 40 percent of the voting public is another indication of America’s mental health crisis. How could a non-irrational mind possibly perceive a leader in a man whose views are so vague?

There is nothing logical, sensible or normal in any of Trump’s positions; his ideology is as inscrutable as his invective is intolerable. Say what you will about Ronald Reagan (and I’ve said plenty), but he had a specific and articulable worldview. Can anyone say the same thing about Trump?

It’s impossible to interpret the logic of those who think a man who likes to play pattycake with Putin…a man who chats creepily about coveting his child…a man who has repeatedly spurned calls to release his tax returns…and a man who treats Gold Star fathers and mothers like they belong in the gutter…merits serious consideration as the 45th President of the United States. Such an idea is literally madness.

From a certain perspective, Trump’s remaining support is perhaps the best argument possible for moving to a single-payer health care system with state-of-the-art mental health counseling. So many of our citizens are clearly going without the care they need; why else would they embrace a man known only for grandiosity and greed?


About 20 years ago, I watched a rebroadcast of the 1980 made-for-television movie Guyana Tragedy: The Story of Jim Jones, starring Powers Boothe as the founder of the church known as the Peoples Temple–which became a temple of doom for the over 900 parishioners who committed mass suicide at Jones’s behest in November 1978. Even after watching the harrowing film, I could not figure out how Jones could pull off what he did, how he could convince so many people to follow his words, how he could be so persuasive.

Watching Trump, I’m beginning to understand. At his rallies, Trump has handed his supporters the cyanide of cynicism, the venom of viciousness and the hemlock of hate–and his frenzied followers have consumed cheerfully. Like Jim Jones’s followers, they have done so with a religious zeal.

Speaking of religious zeal, I’m not surprised by the existence of so-called “Trumpvangelicals.” These folks are actually excited by Trump’s apocalyptic rhetoric, and are not afraid of the prospect of Trump with his finger on the nuclear button. They actually wouldn’t mind if Trump destroyed this world; after all, they only care about the next one.

As for the non-religious who plan to vote for this narcissist, mass dementia is the only possible explanation for why they think Trump is terrific. Think about it: Richard Nixon, Gerald Ford, Ronald Reagan, George H. W. Bush and George W. Bush all had profound flaws, but one can make a case that all five men were objectively qualified to be President, no matter how poorly they may have performed once they got the job. What actually qualifies Trump to be President? Would you hire a man with his resume for any position that required responsibility, wisdom, rationality and caution?

As the old saying goes, the whole world is watching–and what is the world seeing? Our brothers and sisters in lands far beyond our shores are scared. They don’t understand how America could do this to herself, how the most powerful country on earth could ever contemplate electing a man so unqualified to lead it. Fifty years ago, they watched our protesters sing, “We Shall Overcome.” If Trump recovers from his week from hell and becomes President, his Justice Department will turn a blind eye, a deaf ear and a cold heart to victims of police brutality–and such an outcome will prove that perhaps we didn’t overcome after all.

In a Trump administration, black lives would only matter in theory. The lives of the disadvantaged and dispossessed of all colors would only matter in theory. There would be liberty and justice under Trump…but only for his fellow billionaires.

A Trump administration would be a horror beyond the imagination of a Stephen King or a John Carpenter, a hell on earth for the poor and middle class, an ecological and economic execution. The question that will be answered on November 8 is simple: is America really crazy enough to go there?

UPDATE: Brad Friedman on why Democrats can’t get overconfident in the wake of Trump’s week from hell (relevant remarks from 48:55-52:13). Plus, more from the New York Times and the Washington Post.
 

CuckFumbustion

Lo and Behold! The transformative power of Vapor.
Remember when Dr. Alvin Poussaint, the acclaimed Harvard Medical School psychiatry professor, argued that racism should be considered a form of mental illness? I could never figure out why Poussaint’s contention was considered controversial; it struck me as basic common sense that hatred based on race or culture is incompatible with rational thinking.
Now is a good time as any to sound off on this topic. Since it is part of the election platform of all political plartie in some manner.

I don't think racism is technically a mental illness with a few exceptions. But the greater whole has a lot more to due with familiarity. Yes some self proclaimed racists are downright venomous and dangerous. Sadly, Rational thought has it's limitations and it's own limits but ignorance knows no bounds. I don't even like labeling people racists unless they are self proclaimed and causing harm. We should allow such people to turn over an new leaf instead of alienating them more than they are already experiencing from 'outsiders'. Give anybody the option to change their mind. I've seen the transformation of thought happen with several people in my lifetime.

Many people who have certain racial biasts don't take into consideration that each person has their own set of experiences and was born into this. Racial tensions are stoked when the economy is bad. There is actual data for that. A good economy would have a direct impact on this phenom. And conversely a bad economy needs scapegoats. Simpler minded people need something more tangible to blame than say a wider analysis of things like economic theory. I don't blame some for falling for the trap. But nobody should exploit that emotion like it has been recently. Despite our sense of urgency to want to stamp it out like a brush fire, we shouldn't fall for the same trappings of irrational dangerous thought patterns as any racist would. We shouldn't tell ourselves we are 'better' than racists. just better informed, educated and raised in an environment that is more viable for rational discussion and discourse. There is no sort of exclusivity to rational thought, so why treat it like it can't be obtained by someone less informed than ourselves. I find scapegoating racists equally hazardous as the scapegoaters themselves. Why form prejudices over prejudiced people?

If you are raised around people who are unlike yourself and you have the normal daily interactions with them, you are less likely to harbor any irrational hatred for the other person. If you know several people unlike yourself, you can easily distinguish behaviors of individuals than groups. I have had black people as one small example that I work with, give me loads of encouragement to do better and we work as a well oiled machine, looking out for each other. etc. They know me well enough to see the good and bad I can possess and lean me towards my better nature. Also some of those folks like me for who I am and keep me from being a little less ignorant from time to time. sorry to break it to some people, But Humans are rational beings that are not rational 100% of the time. And human nature isn't always rational. Remember that, instead of going for the reflexive. reactive behavior to remember this point. I have helped others for falling for that trap and have been helped myself. It also helps to 'cultivate one's garden' from time to time. Help other get through the brambles of life.

People who are enlightened enough to see the uniqueness and range of character that just one single person can possess, is less likely to fall for such a reductionist concept as racism, sexism, and oversimplifying the motivations of other people etc. Once you resign to the fact that you are just as likely to be raised as a bigot or ignorant under the right/wrong circumstances, then you can consider how others can be manipulated, exploited and sucked into such group think.
If you have a short view of humanity you will fall into this logic trap. Other negative behavior like narcissism, greed, avarice can harbor and compound such short minded views. We often quicker to condemn people of ther viewpoints without applying the same sense of skepticism about our own behaviors.

That is why I find it dangerous to label people racists much less calling what is mostly a social issue a mental health issue. More people on average are not racist. We elected a bleck president twice by majority. Most people want to get past this and make things more equal. So why be immediately threaten people of less dangerous racial biasts and try to reach out to the first. They are often that way because of unfamiliarity of the other person. Not directly due to mental illness. It feels very hyperbolic to me when we hate the haters and try to make them seem smaller than us. That only exacerbates the problem. :2c: + :peace:
 
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