The 2016 Presidential Candidates Thread

lwien

lwien

Well-Known Member
steama said:
Look how quickly the DNC found new leadership. There's a wikileak positive for you and that's only one.
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Goddamnit. I really do wanna stop posting about this but every time you post up something like this, it demands that it be put into context. If you compare the change of DNC leadership to the monumental damage that has been done to our intelligence gathering efforts, it would be like comparing a firecracker to a hydrogen bomb.

Sometimes I wish that I knew less than I know.

Ok, now I'm done. I promise........
 
CarolKing

CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
This is the presidential thread. Let's get back on topic. Me included. No sense in getting into a shit storm. It's not worth the battle. Get your vaporizer out. It's been a long news week.

I've got my Enano ;pd;and some Blackberry Kush.;)
 
cybrguy

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
Last word itus is one of Trump's failing too...

Even Trump’s Economic Populism is a Sham
by Martin Longman
August 5, 2016 4:30 PM

Some people say that Donald Trump has been politically successful so far because he captures the zeitgeist of the country, but I just can’t figure out how it can be that the people want more “real-estate investors, hedge-fund managers and bankers” in charge of the economy. But that’s who Trump named today as members of his economic advisory team. They’re all men, too. Probably all white men, although I am not familiar enough with all of them to say that for certain.

I don’t think it’s the case that whatever is good for hedge fund managers is good for the country, and I don’t think people are in love with real estate investors or trust big time bankers as far as they can throw them. There’s nothing populist about Trump’s economic team, nor is it inclusive or broad. Are there any academicians at all? Anyone from “Main Street”?

How about the guy who takes his hats off the boat from China?
 
t-dub

t-dub

Vapor Sloth
That is an excellent article, however, they are assuming Trump actually believes all this shit he is saying. What if, what if, he was just saying it to further his goals. Like a salesman. Do we really know he actually believes these things? Its hard to tell because he has flipped on many things. Either way its terrible but the premise of this article may be false.
 
cybrguy

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
While I agree that W was significantly more full of himself that I thought he was entitled, I don't think he was clinically a narcissist. I doubt he would have ceded so much power to Cheney if he was...

Trump would probably think the cabinet was an unnecessary encumbrance to his outstanding decision making process and disband it...
 
lwien

lwien

Well-Known Member
t-dub said:
That is an excellent article, however, they are assuming Trump actually believes all this shit he is saying. What if, what if, he was just saying it to further his goals. Like a salesman. Do we really know he actually believes these things? Its hard to tell because he has flipped on many things. Either way its terrible but the premise of this article may be false.
Click to expand...

There is a huge difference between lies and bullshit. Watch this clip.....It's not on youtube yet being that it was just broadcast last night so I had to get it from media matters. It's right on point to what you're talking about, t.
https://mediamatters.org/video/2016...rump-s-mode-operation-really-bs-artist/212201
 
grokit

grokit

well-worn member
:hmm: I think it was bloomberg that first called drumpf out on his bs/con job?

"Although narcissism does not lend itself to a precise definition, most psychologists agree that it comprises self-centeredness, boastfulness, feelings of entitlement and a need for admiration."

By this definition, narcissism could be a prerequisite for even running for the us presidency :rofl:

Another gem from the same: "We have never met Mr. Trump, let alone examined him, so it would be inappropriate of us to offer a formal assessment of his level of narcissism."

edit (@2013):

1. Lyndon Johnson

2. Theodore Roosevelt

3. Andrew Jackson

4. Franklin Delano Roosevelt

5. John Kennedy

6. Richard Nixon

7. Bill Clinton

8. Chester Arthur

9. Andrew Johnson

10. Woodrow Wilson​

https://www.psychologicalscience.or.../the-10-most-narcissistic-u-s-presidents.html

:myday:
 
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CarolKing

CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
Trump has a personality disorder looks like to me. I posted a week ago he acts like he has hypomania, I included part of the definition and another FCer included the rest. It looks like he also has some attention deficit hyperactivity too. Just my personal observation and some reading. I'm not anyone with a medical degree.

He tries to pretend empathy, I don't know if he's capable unless it's something personal to him. He doesn't have the ability to put himself in other people's shoes. It's like his impulses take over. The last 2 days he's been on his best behavior. Even that doesn't sound sincere. They must of had a huge talk with him. I would have liked to have been a fly on the wall in that room. He's been trying to back track. He's not apologizing for the Khan family comments.
He's been questioning Hillarys personality calling her unhinged, unfit to be president. That's calling the kettle black. He must be mirroring what they are saying he's been doing.
 
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t-dub

t-dub

Vapor Sloth
lwien said:
There is a huge difference between lies and bullshit. Watch this clip.....
Click to expand...
Yes, exactly. What is the difference between a BS artist and a narcissistic, pathological liar? Both are bad but I think they are different. I feel, and I could be very wrong here, that Trump is a massive BS artist, salesman, and is willing to say anything, to anybody, to justify his position at any time or place, no matter what. His ego is completely out of control IMHO. I spent my whole life in car sales so when Trump speaks like this I can see and feel certain things about him.

Like the guest said on the video "Lies, truths, facts are irrelevant. He's making up some grand story, which is all fine if your selling memberships to a golf course, but when you are doing it with the presidency of the united states, talking about nuclear security, and deterrence, it is scary as hell because he is making it up as he goes along."

So . . . how much of Trump is the salesman and how much is the narcissist as posited in the article?

Not that it matters, but upon further reflection, its probably a mixture of both.
 
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cybrguy

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
I also think it is both. His normal modus operandi is as a bullshit artist, but he seems to have absolutely no compunction about out and out lying when it suits his intentions or interests. And he doesn't care if will be caught in the lie or exaggeration because he believes he has no costs or penalties, that no one will hold it against him. And while that may be true among his own base, it is likely only true there.
 
CuckFumbustion

CuckFumbustion

Lo and Behold! The transformative power of Vapor.
ReggieB said:
Indeed, I sort of know what they want but I don't see their end game, how does it play out, where's the logic behind it? will there be a massive redistribution of wealth so everyone is on a level playing field? Is there a model where this has worked?
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Only one small example here . Some Libertarians have a huge problem with inflation. Printing extra money to cover Congresses deficit temporarily. When money is devalued the poor are hit the hardest. Instead of raising the Min wage. A Libertarian would want the dollar to be worth more over time, not less. If I lost $5 in my sofa cushion, it would have MORE buying power over time than less once I got around to rummaging through my sofa. A poor person who saved any small amount of money would not only be secure in such an economy. but simply holding onto their money would be an investment. If more people hold on to more money. Then there is less actual dollars represented in circulation which would also increase said value. KIM this is Roger Ringer stuff that I'm grossly oversimplifying.

Short list of my other interpretations - Socialy liberal, economicly conservative. Be a virtuous example of government instead of getting entangled in foreign affairs. Free trade. Instead of limiting ones choices Pursuit of more choices. Marketplace of ideas. Personal choice what to do with ones body. Gays can marry or perhaps government should just get out of the marriage business entirely? Bad law makes bad government. There doesn't need to be a law for every given situation.
What is considered socially acceptance, business and equality will always be way ahead of the curve and government is the last to react to it. Every law should be written as if it had the same impact 20 years from now and not be drawn up by some current hysteria. Therefore the less laws there is, the easier it is to enforce them.
CarolKing said:
Trump has a personality disorder looks like to me. I posted a week ago he acts like he has hypomania, I included part of the definition and another FCer included the rest. It looks like he also has some attention deficit hyperactivity.p too.
Click to expand...
And I'll gladly post it again because it bears repeating. For fun take the description of hypomania that was posted or look up hypomania and compare notes with ANY of his speeches. Its like a bingo game for me anymore. All 7 bullet points can be outlined in any of his speeches. Just choose one at random. Forget it is Trump, forget anything you ever heard about Trump and suspend any political motivations for a second and parse it out folks. all the bullet points are there. KIM I'm no more of a psychologist than say DR. Phil. But OMG it is really that transparent to me. :whoa:

Diagnosis[edit]
The DSM-IV-TR defines a hypomanic episode as including, over the course of at least four days, elevated mood plus three of the following symptoms OR irritable mood plus four of the following symptoms:

 
gangababa

gangababa

Well-Known Member
Whatever maybe the explanations of the unseen inside of Trumps observable behavior patterns, he is being perceived as beyond socially tolerated subjectivity.
He did not simply say he saw the money being unloaded, he described the video scene in great (imaginary) detail.

The Trump brand is suffering; authenticity can not be claimed when one's words are falsified daily.
Today's Trump defenders are those most persistent in willfully ignoring facts and cognitive dissonance.

I read here about the decline in reservations bookings at Trump properties.

"Dig a little deeper into the data and you find a fact which really shouldn't be all that surprising: women are driving the drop-off in market share for Trump properties. At Trump sites in blue states, the share of women visiting last month sunk almost 30 percent."

"...a hotel-booking search engine, says that in the first quarter of 2016, room reservations at Trump hotels were down by an astonishing 59 percent. This at a time when bookings for hotels overall were up. Trump properties are actually bucking the positive trend for the hotel sector."

"Worst hit were the Trump hotels in New York (down 74 percent), Las Vegas (down 71 percent), Chicago (down 31 percent), and Atlantic City (down 17 percent). North of the border, Canadians and foreign tourists also appeared to be snubbing Trump, with his Toronto hotel seeing a 47 percent decline in bookings."

Intellectual honest requires that I say the linked www article, sources from peoples world dot org, a Communist Party source

Two background source links, here and here
 
Nooky72

Nooky72

Dog Marley
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CuckFumbustion

CuckFumbustion

Lo and Behold! The transformative power of Vapor.
I watched the CNN town hall and other related clips and decided that I want there to be an actual debate much like the tone of that town hall meeting for this election.
Gary outlines more into what he is willing to sign on as to what laws congress will offer him to pass or veto as opposed to someone spouting a ham fasted agenda. Bill Weld was ahead of the curve as Governor on rights and mentions how often he meets with different groups including Muslin to stay in touch. I will dig deeper on that topics and how he got a long as a Republican.

Gary Johnson was 2x Gov of New Mexico and finds Trumps racist comments particularly incendiary to begin with and states that it is just the opposite and that the illegal immigrants should seek work visas and have a Social Security numbers for tax purposes. So he has a comprehensive solution to bring those workers out of the shadows instead of scapegoating them for our lost jobs.

He mentions the amount of bills he vetoed as Governor because he felt they were written with cronies capitalism in mind. So I threw in $15 for the 15% campaign to get them into the debates and offer their platform to the public. The worst that could possibly happen is that he becomes president right?

Gary talks about MJ being an exit drug in the town hall for some people and that he hasn't drank alcohol in over 20 some years. He's more the athletic type. Climbed the 7 tallest mountains on the planet. Former CEO of Cannibus Sativa inc. How much more Pro pot can you get as a candidate?

Not sure if he was being a little evasive or resigned to the fact that yes, congress will be the ones writing the laws and that he will be deciding from that what is the best outcome. A more receptive then aggressive stance.The kind of thing Obama and Bush Sr. was better at. So I don't think he will treat his Administration as much of a mandate as the other two candidate would. But I'm still trying to get more of a pulse on both candidates and their seriousness to take on the office. Bill Weld has held several posts in State and Federal Government and was elected by several Democrats in 'blue' states as Governor because of his liberal stance on social values much like Gary Johnson did in his state.

So they aren't demagogues or pure ideologues and they got reelected in blue states as Republicans. But the socially liberal side help get them elected. Oh and they invited Jesse Ventura to the party. Another Governor who ran as an independent. This could be fun if they actually gained more visibility and Trump (and perhaps Hiillary) would even seem farther removed.

Hillary Clinton started out as 'Goldwater girl'. Here is her story.
 
Silat

Silat

When the Facts Change, I Change My Mind.
gangababa said:
The Drumpf brand is suffering; authenticity can not be claimed when one's words are falsified daily.
Today's Drumpf defenders are those most persistent in willfully ignoring facts and cognitive dissonance.
Click to expand...

Do not worry about the shit-spackled muppet fart.
Losing does not matter as long as it is other people's money.
And remember that the vast majority of those properties you listed are all owned by others and he only sells the use of his name with no risk.
 
t-dub

t-dub

Vapor Sloth
@Silat - I have to compliment you. After reading you for a while I have to say you are the absolute, best, name caller in this thread, bar none. I don't care what side it's aimed at . . . you are a pro.
 
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Silat

Silat

When the Facts Change, I Change My Mind.
I have no love for the deluded ideology of libertarianism.
Johnson and his ideology want to people to be free to be as bigoted as they want to be without government interference for one thing.
I posted the Johnsons party platform and it is full of antigovernment nonsense.
Why Libertarianism is BS
1,2 and 3 of 10 reasons. I can post the rest and will when needed:)

"1. It's impossible. Libertarianism is impossible except for survivalist nutters and hermits. Humans need a social structure because we're a social species. Trusting that humans can moderate their own behavior on their own is just a fantasy. If we were as sparsely distributed as wolf packs, we could get along in our small groups without intervention from a higher authority in theory.... but the matriarch or patriarch would be the higher authority so even that isn't strictly libertarian. Anyway, we're long past the point in evolution where we could manage our behavior without a formal structure. Michael Shermer theorizes the optimal size for a human community to manage without any oversight is about 150. Those days are gone."

2/ "It's naive. It assumes people are basically good. This is a nice thought, and a refreshing break from the Christian belief that all people are sinners who need to be saved, but it's just plain wrong. Just as we differ in our DNA we differ in our personalities. Some of us will go through life making very few decisions that negatively impact others, and some of us are sociopaths. At its best, government protects the truly good from the sociopaths. Without a government, we would be reduced to lynch mobs which can only avenge bad deeds, not prevent them. And we certainly wouldn't have something like the FBI, which can trace the path of a serial killer from one area to the next based on DNA evidence, etc. I think the people who believe that "survival of the fittest ergo libertarianism" probably assume they are the fittest themselves. They don't think that they would be the victims of a sociopath."

3/ "It's cold-hearted. For example, regulations about safety in cars aren't needed because over time car companies would be forced to make safer cars or they'd go out of business. So the people who died in fires caused by exploding gas tanks in Ford Pintos, or in wrecks caused by the design of their Corvair were just collateral damage in the evolution of better cars. People who died because of unregulated businesses did nothing to deserve that fate, except perhaps not be able to afford better cars. And the pseudo-Darwinism of libertarianism really doesn't care what the strong do to the weak. Rich and powerful people are good and deserve to be rich and powerful. The poor and powerless deserve what they get."
 
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