The 2016 Presidential Candidates Thread

[gangababa]

"safe and quite content are some, but many are not, and there is revolution in the air"

We need all think about the 'revolution in the air'.
A few Springs back the people of Tunisia and elsewhere hoped their unhappiness and unrest and revolution would bear good fruit.
The Arab spring overturned the status quo, but good did not arise. The fruit turned rotten.

Are we so stupid as to think we can burn the place down and see Valhalla victorious.
Destroy the status quo and the 'strong-man', the (well armed psychopathic) warlord wields control.
Politics is a considerably more civil game of 'king of the hill' than is armed rebellion.

Too many of us see only color and form and surface and never look into our own unfathomable depth, never investigate our own prejudices.

The human condition requires morality and ethics. Without which, societies are nasty, mean, brutish and short (don't last).
Without inner manifestations of Dharma and Tao, no external mandates will ever still the demonic human tendency to 'build walls'.
Buddha-Nature doesn't glorify guns.

 

[gangababa]

...
the Russians have abandoned their “no first use” of nuclear weapons pledge....

Well, now America can't be second best, can we.
So I am sure that only good can come from our electing Trump to use our 2nd scripture threat of nuclear-arms open carry to get our way world wide. What could go wrong with Putin's best Bud in the White House?

Vote Trump for world peace!
Well armed war-lords rule!
America will be 'king of the (no-longer shinning) hill!

 

[grokit]

The problem is that the dnc nomination process should have been an honest discovery process to see who the strongest candidate is, to defeat the gop this fall. Meaning 2016. Instead, we had a dnc that was in the bag for hillary before they even knew who was running against her. And as has been already observed, hillary is the holdover candidate of 2008. Bernie and drumpf have been fully vetted in 2016 politics.

 

[Silat]

It was obvious when no mainstream Democratic politicians ran against Hillary that the DNC had already chosen their candidate.

How many times do we give Clinton the benefit of the doubt before we admit that she has made some serious mistakes.

Yes the DNC is a private club. Yes the super delegates can choose who they want to support. I do not see the problem with that. In fact it is in place to hopefully stop a Hitleresque type candidate like Drumpf from getting the nomination.
FACT: Bernie was not going to win the nomination no matter what. And he did not get the votes to be the nominee. In fact in the end he lost by millions. That is on Bernie. I am not whining and grabbing onto fanciful conspiracy theories that blame everyone but Bernie and his campaign.
FACT: The Dem Party is not a pure progressive party and never will be. But it is becoming more progressive and will continue to do so over the next decade +.

I do not know how old you are but I (drafted during the SE Asian debacle) voted for Bill back in the day and the Clintons have had more investigations thrown at them than Obama has. And none of it stuck. NONE OF IT STUCK. The hate was every bit as bad as that aimed at Obama. Hillary was accused of murder as first lady. The reich will stop at nothing to go after Dems.

Every investigation of the Clintons over the decades came up with BUPKIS.

If you serve the people for your whole adult life you will make SERIOUS mistakes.
Like Bernie did when he voted for immunity for the gun manufacturers.

And for the record I voted for Bernie.

 

[Gunky]

The amusing thing is early in her career Hillary was savaged for being too radical and progressive. Now we have people savaging her because she's supposedly the establishment and Wall Street. It's amazing how crazy Hillary Clinton makes repubs get. Somewhat like Obama only worse because she has the nerve to be a woman. Also a bitter pill to listen to very young Bernie supporters parrot decades of repub talking points about Hillary (Roger Ailes!), not knowing where it all came from.

 

[CarolKing]

Millions and millions of tax dollars have been spent investigating either Bill or Hillary Clinton over the years. I'm really tired of it at this point. I'm not completely happy about all of Hillary's baggage but not willing to hand over the presidency to Trump. Maybe the democrats deserve all this turmoil but we the American people don't deserve a fascist dictator like Donald Trump as president.

Edit

During the Bill Clinton scandal there was stuff out there that folks didn't even want to know or needed to know. It was a fucking circus. The dress with the stain. How many men have affairs all the time. We just don't hear about it. Many of the presidents down the line have had affairs. Get over it. I think most of America is tired of hearing about who Bill Clinton fucked.

We might not be happy about it but it happened. It's never been proven that Bill Clinton raped anybody. He was an unfaithful husband.

Make sure you watch Stephen Coltert he'S having the Democratic National Convincing Coverage, yes I said convincing. He should be pretty funny. Alison Janning will be on and Anthony Weiner.

 

[HighSeasSailor]

I do not know how old you are but I (drafted during the SE Asian debacle) voted for Bill back in the day and the Clintons have had more investigations thrown at them than Obama has. And none of it stuck. NONE OF IT STUCK. The hate was every bit as bad as that aimed at Obama. Hillary was accused of murder as first lady. The reich will stop at nothing to go after Dems.

Every investigation of the Clintons over the decades came up with BUPKIS..

Do what? Nothing stuck? I know we're all high, but c'mon buddy, I was alive then too and it was pretty damn obvious that Bill sexually harassed women at the very bare minimum.

 

[lwien]

Predator? That's a pretty strong word.......

But as far as sexual indiscretions, there are more presidents that have done that than those that haven't. Comes with the power I guess.

 

[grokit]

Hillary has changed since the days of clinton administration, when they were actively against the neocons and their foreign policies. That was why dubya was such an a-hole to bill at first. Now that they have both joined the global corruption that they used to fight against, they get along just fine with the bush clan.

This fall's election will be unlike any in modern history, where emotion will rule the day and the campaigns will not be arguing against each other's policies, but will instead be a war between two competing versions of reality. Facts and evidence will become secondary to the many memes and character attacks of the day.

edit: This should be an entertaining evening at the dnc convention, with sanders, warren, and michelle obama scheduled to start speaking within the hour. They will try for party unity

 

[HighSeasSailor]

Predator? That's a pretty strong word.......

But as far as sexual indiscretions, there are more presidents that have done that than those that haven't. Comes with the power I guess.

I amended my words to not come across as volatile, my bad.

I agree that he's not the first, but in 2016 we shouldn't be holding on to that as a regular thing. It really wasn't cool in the 90s either. Not just Lewinsky, but the rather obvious past abuse as well, which only stopped when it became clear it would cost them both their careers if it didn't.

I admit I view that in an extremely dim light. Taking advantage of women you have power over is a truly, truly shitty thing to do.

 

[t-dub]

And none of it stuck. NONE OF IT STUCK.

Let us not forget that Bill Clinton's testimony in Jones V Clinton led to charges of perjury and obstruction of justice and his impeachment. His AK law license was suspended by the AK Supreme Court and he would have been disbarred by the U.S. Supreme Court had he not surrendered his license there.

Paraphrased from Wikipedia . . .

On April 12, 1999, Clinton was found in contempt of court for "intentionally false" testimony in Jones v. Clinton, fined $90,000, and the case was referred to the Arkansas Supreme Court's Committee on Professional Conduct, as Clinton still possessed a law license in Arkansas.

The Arkansas Supreme Court suspended Clinton's Arkansas law license in April 2000. On January 19, 2001, Clinton agreed to a five-year suspension and a $25,000 fine in order to avoid disbarment and to end the investigation of Independent Counsel Robert Ray. On October 1, 2001, Clinton's U.S. Supreme Court law license was suspended, with 40 days to contest his disbarment. On November 9, 2001, the last day for Clinton to contest the disbarment, he opted to resign from the Supreme Court Bar, surrendering his license, rather than facing penalties related to disbarment.

As a consequence of his conduct in the Jones v. Clinton civil suit and before the federal grand jury, President Clinton incurred significant administrative sanctions. The Independent Counsel considered seven non-criminal alternative sanctions that were imposed in making his decision to decline prosecution:

(1) President Clinton’s admission of providing false testimony that was knowingly misleading, evasive, and prejudicial to the administration of justice before the United States District Court for the Eastern District of Arkansas;

(2) his acknowledgement that his conduct violated the Rules of Professional Conduct of the Arkansas Supreme Court;

(3) the five-year suspension of his license to practice law and $25,000 fine imposed on him by the Circuit Court of Pulaski County, Arkansas;

(4) the civil contempt penalty of more than $900,000 imposed on President Clinton by the federal court for violating its orders;

(5) the payment of more than $850,000 in settlement to Paula Jones;

(6) the express finding by the federal court that President Clinton had engaged in contemptuous conduct;

(7) the substantial public condemnation of President Clinton arising from his impeachment.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_v._Jones

 

[lwien]

Taking advantage of women you have power over is a truly, truly shitty thing to do.

There was no forceable rape going on here at all. It was all done under mutual consent.

Taking advantage of ANYONE, be they male or female, be it sexual or non-sexual, be it in any context, I agree is a shitty thing to do but it's also the responsibility for people NOT to be taken advantage of, but it's much easier to play the victim rather than take personal responsibility. There are two sides to this coin, eh?

On another note, when the DNC first started, there were a LOT of boos by Bernie supporters anytime Hillary Clinton was mentioned, but they have been dying down a bit as the convention goes on. Looks like the party WILL unite in the coming days......

 

[Gunky]

Can we all agree on something here? Nowhere in the Constitution does it say having a straying husband constitutes high crimes and treason.

 

[HighSeasSailor]

There are two sides to this coin, eh?

Not really. I think it's pretty straightforward that it's completely unacceptable behavior myself. No amount of victim blaming changes what he himself did, and consent is a questionable concept with such a power disparity in place.

 

[lwien]

Not really. I think it's pretty straightforward that it's completely unacceptable behavior myself. No amount of victim blaming changes what he himself did, and consent is a questionable concept with such a power disparity in place.

I have NEVER said that I "blame" the victim. I did say that in instances mentioned above, one has the choice to either play the victim or take personal responsibility, regardless of the power disparity.

So I'm not blaming the victim. I'm saying that they have a choice to be the victim or.........not.

Can we all agree on something here? Nowhere in the Constitution does it say having a straying husband constitutes high crimes and treason.

Yup. IF it was illegal, Thomas Jefferson would have been expelled from any government positions as would Eisenhower, Roosevelt, Kennedy, etc etc.

 

[grokit]

Nowhere in the Constitution does it say having a straying husband constitutes high crimes and treason.

Yes this is true.

But perception is what matters here.

After all of the impeachment and other bs directed at the clintons in the '90s, we need to ask if the voting public has enough of an appetite for putting this particular power couple back in the white house.

Populism breeds passion (even if it's xenophobic), and passionate voters win elections.

 

[HighSeasSailor]

I have NEVER said that I "blame" the victim. I did say that in instances mentioned above, one has the choice to either play the victim or take personal responsibility, regardless of the power disparity.

I gotta watch my mouth better, I'm not meaning to imply you blame the victim. Really, I shouldn't talk politics, I care so little about it and it always leads nowhere useful. I'm sorry if I came across as a douche.

All I'll say in conclusion is that I will never support people who I view as fundamentally bad people. I think my biggest hangup is that I see too many people eager to forgive what I see as obvious privilege putting people above the law, because they're always conveniently better than letting the big bad GOP wolf in. To me that feels like a scam.

 

[MinnBobber]

There was no forceable rape going on here at all. It was all done under mutual consent.

................................................................

Bill Clinton was in a position of power over her, being Prez vs an intern. I worked in HR for a local govt and many were dismissed (immediately if not sooner....) for such conduct over a subordinate. Actually, many were dismissed for much much much less egregious conduct.
It was automatic and absolute.

The situation was not at all like two private citizens. It was gross sexual misconduct and the Clintons dodged artfully, as they always do....

 

[Bdubbdiblets]

I'm confused is Bill running again?

Also...here's this.


Ewww...

Also this


So technically we will be suspending immigration from every country in the world...until further vetting is complete. This won't affect the global economy and thus our own at all....right? Smart business man eh?

I hate that writing this makes me seem like a hill dog lover but electing the closest thing our country has ever come to a dictator, and a racist sexist one at that, makes the potential politicaly corrupt hill dog machine look like a shinier turd indeed.

I'm not a democrat but I don't understand where all of the contempt and hatred for were the country is at is coming from...we as a society have the memories of a bunch of vapers when it comes to politics...can we all take a second to remember what it was like in 2007 with bush about to leave office..world hated us....economy was on its way to depression levels...biggest terrorist attack on our soil ever under bush...list goes on. I for one feel much better about where things are now...and again not a democrat.

Trump has already taken us as a true progressive country several steps back by simply running for president and spewing the hateful rhetoric he as so far...if he is elected....well let's just say I am not religious but I may have to look to the divine for help

Thank Dog I have a Grasshopper filled and ready to go...

I feel better now.

 

[lwien]

Yeah, I've seen that pic before and her body language and the way she is looking at him sure as hell doesn't look like any daughter looking at their dad that I have ever seen before. Very strange....

 

[CarolKing]

My heart goes out to the children of Mexican immigrants, parents that haven't gotten their citizenship. Children that were born in the U.S some of them are younger but some are in high school. I was just listening to the little girl speaking at the convention that was born in the U.S, with the parents that aren't legal American citizens. They are from Mexico and the little girl worries that her parents won't be home when she gets home from school each day. Donald Trump with all his hateful talk is scary to people, me included and I am an American.

I knew a Mexican family who had children that were 6, 10 and 12 years old. The family was so worried that they decided to go back to Mexico. It's become really hard for families to get their citizenship. A wonderful hard working family, the children were so sweet. The children had never been to Mexico and they had been born here. It's gotten difficult to be able for them to get jobs other than picking fruit.

Edit
I would like to see America get its work done without our undocumented workers. They are taking many of the jobs that Americans won't do. I don't see the Mexicans on the side of the road with signs saying need money because the Mexicans, they are out working. It's the Amercians holding these signs wanting a hand out. Anyway that's the way it is in the area where I live.

How about the gal Samoza that interned with Hillary. She has cerebral palsy. It makes Trump look pretty lame with him making fun of the news commentator that had a disability. Having so much disrespect for the citizens in our country with disabilities. It makes him look like a small person who lacks empathy.

 

[lwien]

I was just listening to the little girl that was born in the U.S with the parents that aren't legal American citizens.

That little girl did a GREAT job up there. The clip that they showed just before got me a bit teary eyed.

 

[grokit]

If hillary wants my vote all she has to do is denounce gmo's, fracking and the tpp/ttip, and promise to stop with the regime changes, nato aggression, and asian pivots that create terrorism. Also: renegotiate nafta, re-instate glass-segal, bail-out puerto rico, and instead of bailing out large corporations, favor breaking them up into smaller pieces. We should also break up our mainstream media outlets, to preserve competition and real information. Finally, it would be helpful if she could articulate an intelligent criticism of our military-industrial complex, and its relationship with the private central banking system that finances it.

edit: The "vast right wing conspiracy" she once decried as an enemy of the state is now on her side

 

[HellsWindStaff]

Considering the make-up of the Supreme Court as well as just about everything else, the outcome of this election will affect this country for the next 40 years or.........twice as long as I expect to live(...just to put things into perspective).

Lol. False perspective is false . Soz I can't helps myself. Set me up for it to be honest by the outright false statements, you were wrong.

This is fun. It's a nice change from Hilalry supporters calling all of us dumb. Stupid is as stupid does LOL back to my beer now

 

[Throg]

I'm pretty disappointed in the VP picks. Two anti-cannabis politicians....just more of the same and usual.

While not the only topic I care about, it did ring of the unwilling to acknowledge the future.