The 2016 Presidential Candidates Thread

yogoshio

Annoying Libertarian
From the article @grokit posted:
" including raising questions about whether Sanders, who is Jewish, was an atheist."
Yeah, only the GOP cares about religion... The Dem's superpower is their ability to sub-divide groups and cater specialty messages to individual groups, so they'll use anything they can and cater specific messages to specific groups, in a way that makes it seem like it was someone else's idea.

Combine this with HuffPo writers asking the Clinton campaign to approve articles, and I don't know how anyone could pretend the Dems give a shit about voters.

The fact Trump landed the nomination to me is proof that while the Repubs wanted to, they did not try to steal the nomination from him.
 

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
The fact Trump landed the nomination to me is proof that while the Repubs wanted to, they did not try to steal the nomination from him.

That is laughable. The only reason they didn't take the nomination away from him is that they couldn't. If there had been any way to do it without burning the convention down they certainly would have.
 

yogoshio

Annoying Libertarian
Well we can see how that turned out for the Dems. Boos, screams of injustice. I guess they just knew better than Schultz :rofl:
 
yogoshio,

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
Well we can see how that turned out for the Dems.
If you really want to know how it "turns out", you are gonna have to wait till Thursday Night.

I have a feeling it isn't going to "turn out" like you think it is.

I will bet ya now there will no "You cant always get what you want" playing in the stadium.
 
cybrguy,

ReggieB

Well-Known Member
From the article @grokit posted:
" including raising questions about whether Sanders, who is Jewish, was an atheist."
Yeah, only the GOP cares about religion... The Dem's superpower is their ability to sub-divide groups and cater specialty messages to individual groups, so they'll use anything they can and cater specific messages to specific groups, in a way that makes it seem like it was someone else's idea.

Combine this with HuffPo writers asking the Clinton campaign to approve articles, and I don't know how anyone could pretend the Dems give a shit about voters.

The fact Trump landed the nomination to me is proof that while the Repubs wanted to, they did not try to steal the nomination from him.
tbf Fox may start offering that service to one of the parties, murdoch snr is allegedly well versed in the art of influencing governments/individuals, if they're already lambasting trump it may be that they've already sided with the democrats.
 
ReggieB,
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yogoshio

Annoying Libertarian
I don't need to wait till Thursday to see the fallout. There may be some cleanup done this week, but the damage the DNC has done to itself will have very long lasting repercussions, just like Trump has done to the Repubs.
 

gangababa

Well-Known Member
This 2016 Presidential election is historic.

America will either elect the first female President of the United States of America,
or
America will elect the last President of the USA.


Trump is supported by the Kremlin and has been for years.
"Trump has been highly reliant on money from Russia, most of which has over the years become increasingly concentrated among oligarchs and sub-garchs close to Vladimir Putin."
...
"Over the course of the last year, Putin has aligned all Russian state controlled media behind Trump."
...if Vladimir Putin were simply the CEO of a major American corporation and there was this much money flowing in Trump's direction, combined with this much solicitousness of Putin's policy agenda, it would set off alarm bells galore. That is not hyperbole or exaggeration. And yet Putin is not the CEO of an American corporation. He's the autocrat who rules a foreign state...

It takes wilful ignorance to not see that Trump is a real danger to America.

Inside Trump’s financial ties to Russia and his unusual flattery of Vladimir Putin
"Trump’s top aides, too, have had ties to Russia. Campaign chairman Paul Manafort has done multimillion-dollar business deals with pro-Russian oligarchs and was a longtime adviser to the Russia-aligned Ukrainian president whose 2014 ouster triggered Russia’s intervention in Ukraine..."
 

grokit

well-worn member
I agree that while the establishment wing of the gop kept their distance, they are going with their best chance to win, unlike the dnc which has doubled down on the establishment candidate. The rnc is an example of the republican party split, where they still let drumpf take the wheel just in case he can do, exactly what he has done so far. The dnc is also split, but in their case they went with the status quo.

It takes wilful ignorance to not see that Trump is a real danger to America.
I disagre, and say that hillary and her neo-lib cronies are the biggest threat to world peace.

The fact is that the us and nato have been poking the bear for years now, and this kind of aggression is by far the greatest danger to world peace and stability. Here's a dose of factual reality:

from:
Are Nuclear Weapons A Greater Risk Now Then During The Cold War?

Nuclear-bomb-test-e1469329506928.jpg


It is 71 years since atomic bombs destroyed Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and humanity’s memory of those events has dimmed. But even were the entire world to read John Hersey’s Hiroshima, it would have little idea of what we face today.

The bombs that obliterated those cities were tiny by today’s standards, and comparing “Fat Man” and “Little Boy”—the incongruous names of the weapons that leveled both cities—to modern weapons stretches any analogy beyond the breaking point. If the Hiroshima bomb represented approximately 27 freight cars filled with TNT, a one-megaton warhead would require a train 300 miles long.

What has made today’s world more dangerous, however, is not just advances in the destructive power of nuclear weapons, but a series of actions by the last three U.S. administrations.

First was the decision by President Bill Clinton to abrogate a 1990 agreement with the Soviet Union not to push NATO further east after the reunification of Germany or to recruit former members of the defunct Warsaw Pact.

NATO has also reneged on a 1997 pledge not to install “permanent” and “significant” military forces in former Warsaw Pact countries. This month NATO decided to deploy four battalions on, or near, the Russian border, arguing that since the units will be rotated they are not “permanent” and are not large enough to be “significant.” It is a linguistic slight of hand that does not amuse Moscow.

Second was the 1999 U.S.-NATO intervention in the Yugoslav civil war and the forcible dismemberment of Serbia. It is somewhat ironic that Russia is currently accused of using force to “redraw borders in Europe” by annexing the Crimea, which is exactly what NATO did to create Kosovo. The U.S. subsequently built Camp Bond Steel, Washington’s largest base in the Balkans.

Third was President George W, Bush’s unilateral withdrawal from the Anti-Ballistic Missile Treaty and the decision by the Obama administration to deploy anti-missile systems in Romania and Poland, as well as Japan and South Korea.

Last is the decision by the White House to spend upwards of $1 trillion upgrading its nuclear weapons arsenal, which includes building bombs with smaller yields, a move that many critics argue blurs the line between conventional and nuclear weapons.

The Yugoslav War and NATO’s move east convinced Moscow that the Alliance was surrounding Russia with potential adversaries, and the deployment of anti-missile systems (ABM)—supposedly aimed at Iran’s non-existent nuclear weapons—was seen as a threat to the Russian’s nuclear missile force.

One immediate effect of ABMs was to chill the possibility of further cuts in the number of nuclear weapons. When Obama proposed another round of warhead reductions, the Russians turned it down cold, citing the anti-missile systems as the reason. “How can we take seriously this idea about cuts in strategic nuclear potential while the United States is developing its capabilities to intercept Russian missiles?” asked Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin.

When the U.S. helped engineer the 2014 coup against the pro-Russian government in Ukraine, it ignited the current crisis that has led to several dangerous incidents between Russian and NATO forces—at last count, according to the European Leadership Network, more than 60. Several large war games were also held on Moscow’s borders. Former Soviet president Mikhail Gorbachevwent so far as to accuse NATO of “preparations for switching from a cold war to a hot war.”

In response, the Russians have also held war games involving up to 80,000 troops.

It is unlikely that NATO intends to attack Russia, but the power differential between the U.S. and Russia is so great—a “colossal asymmetry,” Dmitri Trenin, head of the Carnegie Moscow Center, told the Financial Times—that the Russians have abandoned their “no first use” of nuclear weapons pledge.

It the lack of clear lines that make the current situation so fraught with danger. While the Russians have said they would consider using small, tactical nukes if “the very existence of the state” was threatened by an attack, NATO is being deliberately opaque about its possible tripwires. According to NATO Review, nuclear “exercises should involve not only nuclear weapons states…but other non-nuclear allies,” and “to put the burden of the doubt on potential adversaries, exercises should not point at any specific nuclear thresholds.”

In short, keep the Russians guessing. The immediate problem with such a strategy is: what if Moscow guesses wrong?

That won’t be hard to do. The U.S. is developing a long-range cruise missile—as are the Russians—that can be armed with conventional or nuclear warheads. But how will an adversary know which is which? And given the old rule in nuclear warfare—use ‘em, or lose ‘em—uncertainty is the last thing one wants to engender in a nuclear-armed foe.

Indeed, the idea of no “specific nuclear thresholds” is one of the most extraordinarily dangerous and destabilizing concepts to come along since the invention of nuclear weapons.

much more:
https://www.popularresistance.org/are-nuclear-weapons-a-greater-risk-now-then-during-the-cold-war/

edit:
We can't discount us aggression in the south china sea either:

Top Chinese Admiral: China Ready to Counter ‘Any Aggression’ in South China Sea
and
US Won't Back Down on South China Sea, Navy's Top Officer Says

:myday:
 
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grokit,

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
I don't need to wait till Thursday to see the fallout. There may be some cleanup done this week, but the damage the DNC has done to itself will have very long lasting repercussions, just like Trump has done to the Repubs.
And if wishes were fishes...

The Dems have made some mistakes in this election season, there is no doubt. But they are in so much better shape than the Republicans it is almost impossible to compare them.

Like her or not, Hillary is a professional politician who has better qualifications for the office than anyone in the last 150 years. She has been at the point of the spear for 25 years, and has done some great things for America and Americans. Of COURSE the republicans have done their best to smear her, they have done it the whole time because they FEAR her, her goals, and her success. Yet with all the shit they have thrown at her SHE STILL STANDS.

Donald Trump is an inane carnival barker who displays his bigotry, misogyny, and narcissism as if they were desirable characteristics. He has never done anything for anyone other than himself and his family, unless it helped him get richer. He cares NOTHING about America or Americans. He only cares about himself. He has seriously damaged the Republican party, and if he WERE to win he would destroy it.

At the end of this convention it should be pretty clear where we are and what the choices are. I am confident in America's choice.
 

Farid

Well-Known Member
That is laughable. The only reason they didn't take the nomination away from him is that they couldn't. If there had been any way to do it without burning the convention down they certainly would have.

That's not really a fair comparison, because there were several candidates going against Trump on the Republican ticket. Any conspiracy against Trump would just be a conspiracy against Trump. What we are talking about is a conspiracy FOR Hillary, which is much more sinister. It's one thing to do anything in your power to stop a candidate you disagree with. It's quite another to anything in your power to prop up your candidate.

Now I know Clinton supporters will respond by saying it's just chance that Clinton was the only candidate, and that these pro Clinton delegates were just anti Sanders, not pro Clinton. That doesn't sit well with people who have been saying Clinton was given preference as the presumptive candidate. Hell, I know I was offended by how presumptuous "Ready for Hillary" was as a slogan.
 

grokit

well-worn member
At the end of this convention it should be pretty clear where we are and what the choices are. I am confident in America's choice.
When I read about this kind of confidence, it reminds me of michael moore saying, "get out of your bubble!". I'm guessing you are safe and quite content in there, but many people are not, and there is revolution in the air. The gop just nominated the most revolting candidate they could find, because it's that kind of year.
:horse:
 

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
Sorry, Farid. One didn't need to be in the bag for Clinton to not support Bernie. You have that all wrong. Bernie is NOT a Democrat. He never was, and has only put the mantel on when he needed it to get something he wanted. He said just yesterday that he is the longest running INDEPENDENT in American history. That doesn't spell Democrat, does it?

Why should everyone in the DEMOCRATIC party be supportive of someone sworn to burn it down? I get that he is your guy, but why do you refuse to see why he wouldn't be the choice of the MAJORITY of DEMOCRATS. YOU may not be loyal to the party and it's ideals, but I'm sure you can understand that MANY DEMS ARE!
When I read about this kind of confidence, it reminds me of michael moore saying, "get out of your bubble!". I'm guessing you are safe and quite content in there, but many people are not, and there is revolution in the air. The gop just nominated the most revolting candidate they could find, because it's that kind of year.
I will not let the noise of Donald Trump and his followers make me believe that AMERICA is STUPID enough to elect Donald Trump president. My faith is stronger than that.

That doesn't mean I am going to back off and stop working to help Hillary win. It just means that I am confident she (and WE) will.
 
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Farid

Well-Known Member
Yeah, but there is proof that these delegates are in the bag of Clinton. Somehow I knew you'd respond this way:

Now I know Clinton supporters will respond by saying it's just chance that Clinton was the only candidate, and that these pro Clinton delegates were just anti Sanders, not pro Clinton. That doesn't sit well with people who have been saying Clinton was given preference as the presumptive candidate. Hell, I know I was offended by how presumptuous "Ready for Hillary" was as a slogan.

It was obvious when no mainstream Democratic politicians ran against Hillary that the DNC had already chosen their candidate.

How many times do we give Clinton the benefit of the doubt before we admit that she has made some serious mistakes.
 
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Farid,

Bdubbdiblets

Well-Known Member
Donald Trump is an inane carnival barker who displays his bigotry said:
I tend to be the straight down the middle type so I can see how either side has major flaws but this is quite possibly the most eloquent way I have seen the Donald described!! Hahahahaha:rofl:

Sober moment...he could easily win...not funny:\

Now I feel sick..Where's my hopper!:puke:

Not sure why the post showed up like this I have some learning to do!
 

CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
People figured early on that the DNC favored Hillary Clinton. The emails had been hacked a while ago. This info was released with perfect timing right before the Democrats convention. This all just boosts Donald Trumps chances.

It's really obvious to me that who ever leaked these wants Trump as president. There werent any RNC emails released. It's just too convenient for the other side. Or possibly an organization that hates Hillary Clinton. I'm hoping that the FBI can get to the bottom of it. I'm not holding my breath.

I have said this before. I know many of you disagree. I've had this conversation with my husband. It would devaste America to have Trump that close to the button to go to war. He cannot control what comes out of his mouth. We would have the Trump kids helping him make important decisions how to govern America.

He would be the person that could start a nuclear war. I'm not willing to take my chances with Donald Trump. He cannot wait to increase the military and go to war.

Hillary might be a hawk but I would rather have her as commander and chief than Trump.

This would have been helpful to Bernie if these emails would have been released sooner. As it goes it's no help to any democrat only helps the republicans. Go figure. What do people expect Bernie should do? It's rediculous to put him at the top of the ticket. It's too late for that.
 
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grokit

well-worn member
Hillary's neo-lib foreign policy has been pushing the world toward a nuclear confrontation for years.

After a parade of d-list celebrities and conservative icons yelled that the nation had been overrun by criminals in the cities and murderous undocumented immigrants in border towns, the gop’s presidential nominee’s current likelihood of winning stands at 57.5 percent, compared with clinton’s 42.5 percent. This is not in any way a "convention bounce"; to outsiders the gop convention was an unmitigated catastrophe. A 15% margin of victory is a landslide. In stark contrast to what the gop is offering america, hillary is proving that she just doesn’t get it: She is doing exactly the wrong thing by moving toward the middle. In an election year like this one (unprecedented in the us), she needs to move toward the anti-establishment, because the biggest divide in us politics is now between the anti-establishment and the establishment.

:myday:
 

His_Highness

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king
When I read about this kind of confidence, it reminds me of michael moore saying, "get out of your bubble!". I'm guessing you are safe and quite content in there, but many people are not, and there is revolution in the air. The gop just nominated the most revolting candidate they could find, because it's that kind of year.
:horse:

If this were a chess match I'd say that the selection of Tim Kaine as a running mate was 'check'. Trump has already shown his ability to slither out from under a bad move so its far from 'check mate' though. Anyone who can successfully pander to his constituents and the military after calling McCain a loser for being a POW...... AND still make it happen ... is not to be taken lightly.

@cybrguy - you seriously underestimate Hillary's likability as a detracting factor. There are people willing to vote for Trump for no other reason than how much they dislike and distrust her. As I mentioned earlier I had talked to an independent who just popped out of the Trump closet and throughout the discussion it was obvious the choice was made simply out of distaste for Hillary.

As a registered dem I'll vote for her. Its the undeclared I'm worried about.
 

grokit

well-worn member
And the upcoming debates will be like bush vs. gore all over again. Dubya made that 2000 election close enough to cheat the rest of the way to victory by countering gore's well-researched policy numbers with a single phrase uttered repeatedly, "fuzzy math". Hillary will win the policy wonks, but drumpf will successfully twist the emotions of the rest of the electorate. America isn't voting intellectually this year either.
:horse:
 

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
but drumpf will successfully twist the emotions of the rest of the electorate
You sure don't give Americans much credit.

Do you really think regular Americans can't recognize a monster (giant) when they see him? Even when he is loudly proclaiming FEE FI FO FUM and gnashing his teeth!!!!
 

SSVUN~YAH

You Must Unlearn, What You Have Learned...
baby-bernie-sanders.jpg

Just heard this quote on CNN regarding a percentage of the democratic delegates, "It's like Bernie gave us all a bunch of Mountain Dew, and is now trying to put us to sleep".
 

grokit

well-worn member
You sure don't give Americans much credit.
Not my words, but there is a saying about underestimating the american public.

I was actually paraphrasing robert reich, so you're disagreeing with him as well:

http://www.salon.com/2016/07/25/hil...o_move_toward_the_anti_establishment_partner/

Bernie won 23 states and 46% of pledged delegates, even with all the dnc's shenanigans.

Bernie would've easily won the nomination if the deep-south political machine hadn't been in the bag, and those states will vote red in the general election anyhow so they'll be inconsequential this fall.

edit:
:myday:
 
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lwien

Well-Known Member
Do you really think regular Americans can't recognize a monster (giant) when they see him? Even when he is loudly proclaiming FEE FI FO FUM and gnashing his teeth!!!!

The bigger question is, do you think "regular" Americans want a giant monster as their president?

Edit: In response to the link in that post directly above mine, I find it kind of amusing that the term "anti-establishment" was our rallying cry back in the late 60's, early 70's (along with the term, "keep on trucking'"...;))
 
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