The 2016 Presidential Candidates Thread

CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
The only difference between Trump and Clinton in regards to race is one doesn't have a filter and isn't trying to buy (and I use that in a 'benevolent' tone) votes.

If anyone thinks Clinton, Reid, or hell even Rev. Sharpton isn't just as bigoted, you're kidding yourself. We are still talking about the same governmental system that continued to keep pro-Jim Crow Dems and Repubs until they retired or died in office.
How would you know whether or not these people are bigoted or not? That's just your opinion. You are free to vote for whomever you feel is the right choice but don't expect most folks on this thread to agree with you.

Trump has proven over and over again by his statements and his actions he would try to change this country to fit his own agenda. A home for the bigots without feeling guilty about. He will surround himself with people that just agree with him. Those that disagree are out.

We will be worried all the time that he will piss off the wrong person. That would be the end of all of us. With a nuclear bomb - nobody survives. He wants more countries with nuclear capabilities. Hes fucking nuts!

Edit
If we want a different system of government folks need to get more involved and actually vote. Get a different system in the process way before the candidates are chosen early on not months before an election. Soon after this election get busy working towards the next election. Folks can complain all they want on message boards. If they are unwilling to make changes and get involved its all for not.

Get involved in local government where you live. Work on your part of the U.S
 
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yogoshio

Annoying Libertarian
How would you know whether or not these people are bigoted or not? That's just your opinion. You are free to vote for whomever you feel is the right choice but don't expect most folks on this thread to agree with you.

I'm not looking for agreement, I'm looking for honest conversation. And I know these things based on private journals/emails/messages that always come to light and either don't get reported en masse or get tossed away because a celebrity happens to do something stupid. It just gets tiring.

And just to clarify, Trump is a fucking nightmare of epic proportions, and would not be helpful to anybody or anything.
 

gangababa

Well-Known Member
Republicans will be all over this tragedy and loss of life of 50 Floridian people by homegrown terrorism. This guy was born in the U.S. They will of course blame Obama and Hillary Clinton for it. Use this tragedy to further their candidates chances.

Fox host blames Obama for Orlando nightclub shooting before bodies can be recovered
"Fox News host Tucker Carlson suggested on Sunday that President Barack Obama shared the blame for killings at a gay nightclub in Orlando because his administration had downplayed Islamic terrorism."
...
"Citing a recent shooting in San Bernardino, Carlson argued that President Obama’s administration had made America less safe by taking a politically correct view of Islamic-inspired terrorism."
...
"Doesn’t the politicization of all of this, the relentless lying by the administration about the Islamic terror threat we face make it harder for people to want to step forward and say what they see?” the Fox News host opined."

I will opine that the decades long lying hate of the racists and regressives in America has made America less safe; made Americans nastier, meaner, more dangerous, brutish and deranged.
Actions have consequences.
Those who believe Bush bettered Baghdad can begin to appreciate the imported daily market lottery of life that Iraqi shoppers were gifted by the PNAC peoples' exporting of democracy.
Those who decry PC behavior are not now able to hide behind the PC shield of "It's not right to call me and the rest of the right racists".
 

grokit

well-worn member
There is NO comparing this to what is coming now from the White House...
Agreed, but "this" can be interpreted as a reaction to what is coming out of this same white house.
Especially when goosed on by an inflammatory, racist candidate for residency in it :suspicious:


Republicans will be all over this tragedy and loss of life of 50 Floridian people by homegrown terrorism. This guy was born in the U.S. They will of course blame Obama and Hillary Clinton for it. Use this tragedy to further their candidates chances.
Drumpf will no doubt use this tragedy to fuel anti-muslim sentiment, while hillary/dnc will use it to attack our 2nd amendment rights. Neither will speak to the oppression and mental health issues behind gun violence.

:horse:
 
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CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
I fugured Fox would be exploiting this tragedy to fit the republicans agenda, what I notice is the democrats don't do this. They don't continually play the blame game all the time. Action is what we need not words.

Democrats didn't start blaming George Bush for 911 in NY as soon as it was all over. Some Blame went his way further down the line due to our envolvment with other countries. It seemed like some of these countries needed hard assed dictators unfortunately.

I blame George Bush for a lot of the terrorism that's going on now. Who knows, ISIS maybe would have happened eventually anyway.

The Middle East has been a hot bed of violence for thousands of years. We need to stay out of it. We can't allow ourselves to continue to be sucked in.
 
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cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
Agreed, but "this" can be interpreted as a reaction to what is coming out of this same white house.
So, if the President says Muslims have just as much of a right to live their lives in peace as Christians, and some crazy decides, after hearing that, to go out and shoot up a Mosque because he doesn't think so, that is a reaction to the President. Did the President do something wrong? Of course not, but that IS what you are implying.

I want the POTUS to talk as much about the stupidity and violence that comes along with bigotry and racism as he has time for, and if it incites people that just means he should do it more. Because it is also something that more people need to understand, and if he can help with that more power to him. Literally.
I blame George Bush for a lot of the terrorism that's going on now. Who knows, ISIS maybe would have happened eventually anyway.
I'm with you, CK, GWB, Cheney and their Iraq war are HUGELY responsible for ISIS and all that came with it.
 

yogoshio

Annoying Libertarian
So much this. You used to be able to order machine guns through the mail with a personal check, and this kind of nonsense was NEVER an issue.
Neither will speak to the oppression and mental health issues behind gun violence.
 
yogoshio,
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grokit

well-worn member
So who's name are we all gonna write in?

I'm sick of two shitty choices and have been writing in for a while now. But this is the Internet age! Let's get a movement going!
Already happening :tup::

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1wA8z_xaHMzxOvk-JpQi30cQjUKVNjM4rUJ-FygZiKtE/viewform
https://citizensagainstplutocracy.wordpress.com/

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...anders-voters-interview-hillary-clinton-video



Did the President do something wrong? Of course not, but that IS what you are implying.
Please don't tell me what I was implying, these are your words not mine. Of course it's the racist reaction to obama's inclusive rhetoric that's at fault here; only a slave to the right/left cartel could see it otherwise.
:horse:
 
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yogoshio

Annoying Libertarian
I'm sick of two shitty choices and have been writing in for a while now.

Gary Johnsons, the Libertarian!! He has an average of 11% polling now with almost NO major media coverage. Imagine if he got as much air time as a drunk celebrity? Who knows what could happen.
 
yogoshio,
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cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
It is the President's job to speak out on these issues, and he does it virtually every day. And if you haven't heard him speak on mental health and police oppression than you haven't been listening. Watch some Fox news some time and you will hear them bitch about it. They insist he is on the wrong side...

I'm sure you know how to google, but you can start here is you like...

http://www.thenationalcouncil.org/p...tal-health-first-aid-in-gun-control-proposal/

http://www.modernhealthcare.com/article/20160109/MAGAZINE/301099961
 
cybrguy,

grokit

well-worn member
Exactly the same thing. Thank you for helping my argument. The point is that drones are much less destructive and many times less likely to create collateral damage. Using airplanes and ground troops leads to many more civilian deaths. Isn't that what you are after?
If you're implying that I am after more civillian deaths after all I have written here, then you are out of your mind. What I am saying is that we give the planes to these allies that are more than willing to do our dirty work for us, then we claim the moral high ground for anybody still willing to vote for this bullshit.

Typical left/right bs, always arguing about things that make no sense in order to keep the bs flowing:

Americans Argue Over Puppets While Global Masters Meet In Secrecy

Commitee-300.jpg

http://www.activistpost.com/2016/06/how-bilderberg-group-controls-the-world-chart.html

Every four years, the illusion of democracy and accountable government is reinforced to the public by an expensive media circus and presidential election. Meanwhile, an annual conference of members of the world’s wealthiest and most influential is held in near-secrecy with little attention given to the significance of such a gathering.

Why are we encouraged to vote for politicians, but discouraged from considering the sobering fact that the United States and other Western nations are now ruled by a corporate and private oligarchy?

An intensive research study by Princeton University in 2014 concluded that the US is indeed more accurately described as a functioning oligarchy, rather than a democracy or a republic. An oligarchy is a small group of people who effectively control a country, a business, or an institution.Rulers may distinguish themselves as royalty, politicians, businessmen, wealthy, highly educated, or as people in positions of military control.

The study also found: “When a majority of citizens disagrees with economic elites and/or with organized interests, they generally lose.” [Source]

Attendees and organizers of the Bilderberg conference hold key positions of influence in government, industry, or are of significant social influence. They have the capacity to affect world events in ways that elected officials simply do not. The conference is a chance for them to congregate without the burden of official responsibilities or a permanent record.

Every year, between 120-150 political leaders and experts from industry, finance, academia and the media are invited to take part in the meeting. The meeting is a forum for informal discussions about megatrends and major issues facing the world.

The meetings are held under the Chatham House Rule, which states that participants are free to use the information received, but neither the identity nor the affiliation of the speaker(s) nor of any other participant may be revealed. Thanks to the private nature of the meeting, the participants are not bound by the conventions of their office or by pre-agreed positions. Bilderberg

Bilderberg represents the globalization of empire, a form of international rule where the ideas and goals of a wealthy elite are realized through an organization of business and personal contacts.

Coverage of this event is mostly done by independent journalists who face serious harassment and intimidation by law enforcement and private security, which is in stark contrast to the volume and type of media attention given to presidential politics.

What most Americans believe to be ‘Public Opinion’ is in reality carefully crafted and scripted propaganda designed to elicit a desired behavioral response from the public.

And noted Australian academic and activist Alex Carey (1922 – 1988) explained the three most important 20th century developments – “The growth of democracy, the growth of corporate power, and the growth of corporate propaganda as a means of protecting corporate power against democracy. – Canadian writer Ken Adachi

The passion that the American people have for self-governance is evident in how seriously people take local and national American politics. It would be impressive to see this same energy directed at the roots of global problems by re-directing accountability onto those who are better deserving of our collective attention.

A righteously outraged and unified public is capable of swift and furious social and political change, which is why the elite use propaganda. Some 90% of all media consumed in the world is owned and controlled by just 6 mega-corporations, who, by omission and other tactics, work to manufacture consent while keeping we the people divided in every way possible.

What are your thoughts about this? Should a public seeking political change focus itself instead on the organizations and individuals that influence government, rather than argue over candidates?

http://www.activistpost.com/2016/06...ets-while-global-masters-meet-in-secrecy.html
 
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cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
If you're implying that I am after more civillian deaths after all I have written here
I was absolutely NOT implying that. I was saying that using drones kills fewer innocents, and "Isn't that what you are after?". Sorry if you wanted me to read all the bullshit after that incorrect assumption. TL,DR...
 
cybrguy,

cybrguy

Putin is a War Criminal
Pakistan won't let you put troops on the ground, even if we were willing to put them there. We have seen what happens when we put more troops in Afghanistan. So, what, you wanna go back to 50K person footprint in the region? No, then you wanna just leave the Al Qaeda and ISIS leadership alone? I don't think so.

I don't need to slap my dick on the table. Drones are fine with me.

We are slipping away from the subject of this thread. I am fine with what the President is doing, and I suspect that Hillary will act similarly...

Your guess is as good as mine what Trump would do. I'd rather not find out.
 
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yogoshio

Annoying Libertarian
I don't need to slap my dick on the table.

It's not about dicks, its about respect and honoring innocent lives.

And this is a priority for me in the Presidential debate, and Gary Johnson is on the right side of history on this one. I don't want my president (or me, or the country I live in, or ANY FUCKING PERSON EVER) to be the reason children are afraid of clear sunny skies thank you very much.

If you ever want to even START slowing down recruitment, it might be best to stop saying every male over the age of puberty is an allowable casualty because they are considered "potential combatants."
 

BD9

Well-Known Member
The tragedy in Orlando wasn't Islamic terrorism, it was religious terrorism.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...-calls-for-killing-gays-to-end-aids/19929973/

"Here's what the Bible says, Leviticus 20:13, 'If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.' And that, my friend, is the cure for AIDS. It was right there in the Bible all along."

Then there's the hypocrite Ted 'Almost Human' Cruz.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michelangelo-signorile/post_10496_b_8544540.html

Ted Cruz’s father, Rafael Cruz, an anti-gay Tea Party crusader, was a star speaker — he reiterated his death penalty call, adding that homosexuals should first be given some time to repent before the executions begin. There’s nothing subtle about what he said, and you can watch it for yourself, including his statements about what he would do if he were one of those parents of a gay person:

Today, the fucking hypocrite says this;

http://www.businessinsider.com/ted-cruz-statement-orlando-shooting-2016-6

For all the Democrats who are loud champions of the gay and lesbian community whenever there is a culture battle waging, now is the opportunity to speak out against an ideology that calls for the murder of gays and lesbians.

ISIS and the theocracy in Iran (supported with American taxpayer dollars) regularly murder homosexuals, throwing them from buildings and burying them under rocks. This is wrong, it is evil, and we must all stand against it. Every human being has a right to live according to his or her faith and conscience, and nobody has a right to murder someone who doesn't share their faith or sexual orientation.

If you're a Democratic politician and you really want to stand for LGBT, show real courage and stand up against the vicious ideology that has targeted our fellow Americans for murder.

And, there's the westboro bastards. They celebrated the tragedy;

http://www.advocate.com/crime/2016/6/12/westboro-sings-shooters-keep-comin-around-bodies-still-club

"I ain't gonna be an optimist / You were caught up and lost in rage and more crisis / Marry fags as the blood flowing around you / And the shooters keep coming around in the cities that you love / Much blood flowing in the streets bringing God's wrath from above /And then he blinds your eyes..."

The song was linked in one of multiple tweets the anti-LGBT group wrote in response to the shootings Sunday. “God Sent the Shooter to Orlando Fag Club," Westboro tweeted.

I'm sickened by all of this.
 

grokit

well-worn member
Drones are the cowards way out. If we have the desire and "need" for someone's death, the least we could do is do the job ourselves.

Let's take a case study of JUST Pakistan....
http://drones.pitchinteractive.com/
8mtHZ8c.jpg

:uhh: Great graphic. They're also illegal, making obama and hillary war criminals.


Five Reasons Drone Assassinations are Illegal

US civilian and military employees regularly target and fire lethal unmanned drone guided missiles at people across the world. Thousands of people have been assassinated. Hundreds of those killed were civilians. Some of those killed were rescuers and mourners.

These killings would be criminal acts if they occurred inside the US. Does it make legal sense that these killings would be legal outside the US?

Some Facts About Drone Assassinations

The US has used drones to kill thousands of people in Afghanistan, Iraq, Pakistan, Yemen and Somalia. But the government routinely refuses to provide any official information on local reports of civilian deaths or the identities of most of those killed.

In Pakistan alone, the New America Foundation reports US forces have launched 297 drone strikes killing at least 1800 people, three to four hundred of whom were not even combatants. Other investigative journalists report four to eight hundred civilians killed by US drone strikes in Pakistan.

Very few of these drone strikes kill high level leaders of terror groups. A recent article in FOREIGN AFFAIRS estimated “only one out of every seven drone attacks in Pakistan kills a militant leader. The majority of those killed in such strikes are not important insurgent commanders but rather low level fighters, together with a small number of civilians.”

An investigation by the Wall Street Journal in November 2011 revealed that most of the time the US did not even know the identities of the people being killed by drones in Pakistan

Here are five reasons why these drone assassinations are illegal.

One. Assassination by the US government has been illegal since 1976

Drone killings are acts of premeditated murder. Premeditated murder is a crime in all fifty states and under federal criminal law. These murders are also the textbook definition of assassination, which is murder by sudden or secret attack for political reasons.

In 1976 U.S. President Gerald Ford issued Executive Order 11905, Section 5(g), which states “No employee of the United States Government shall engage in, or conspire to engage in, political assassination.” President Reagan followed up to make the ban clearer in Executive Order 12333. Section 2.11 of that Order states “No person employed by or acting on behalf of the United States Government shall engage in, or conspire to engage in, assassination.” Section 2.12 further says “Indirect participation. No agency of the Intelligence Community shall participate in or request any person to undertake activities forbidden by this Order.” This ban on assassination still stands.

Two. United Nations report directly questions the legality of US drone killings

The UN directly questioned the legality of US drone killings in a May 2010 report by NYU law professor Philip Alston. Alston, the UN special rapporteur on extrajudicial, summary, or arbitrary executions, said drone killings may be lawful in the context of authorized armed conflict (eg Afghanistan where the US sought and received international approval to invade and wage war on another country). However, the use of drones “far from the battle zone” is highly questionable legally. “Outside the context of armed conflict, the use of drones for targeted killing is almost never likely to be legal.” Can drone killings be justified as anticipatory self-defense? “Applying such a scenario to targeted killings threatens to eviscerate the human rights law prohibition against arbitrary deprivation of life.” Likewise, countries which engage in such killings must provide transparency and accountability, which no country has done. “The refusal by States who conduct targeted killings to provide transparency about their policies violates the international law framework that limits the unlawful use of lethal force against individuals.”

Three. International law experts condemn US drone killings

While stopping short of direct condemnation, international law expert Notre Dame Professor Mary Ellen O’Connell seriously questions the legality of drone attacks in Pakistan. In powerful testimony before Congress and in an article in America magazine she points out that under the charter of the United Nations, international law authorizes nations to kill people in other countries only in self-defense to an armed attack, if authorized by the UN, or is assisting another country in their lawful use of force. Outside of war, she writes, the full body of human rights applies, including the prohibition on killing without warning. Because the US is not at war with Pakistan, using the justification of war to authorize the killings is “to violate fundamental human rights principles.”

Four. Military law of war does not authorize widespread drone killing of civilians

According to the current US Military Law of War Deskbook, the law of war allows killing only when consistent with four key principles: military necessity, distinction, proportionality, and humanity. These principles preclude both direct targeting of civilians and medical personnel but also set out how much “incidental” loss of civilian life is allowed. Some argue precision-guided weapons like drones can be used only when there is no probable cause of civilian deaths. But the US military disputes that burden and instead directs “all practicable precautions” be taken to weigh the anticipated loss of civilian life against the advantages expected to be gained by the strike.

Five. Retired high-ranking military and CIA veterans challenge the legality and efficacy of drone killings

Retired US Army Colonel Ann Wright squarely denies the legality of drone warfare, telling Democracy Now: “These drones, you might as well just call them assassination machines. That is what these drones are used for: targeted assassination, extrajudicial ultimate death for people who have not been convicted of anything.”

Drone strikes are also counterproductive. Robert Grenier, recently retired Director of the CIA Counter-Terrorism Center, wrote, “One wonders how many Yemenis may be moved in the future to violent extremism in reaction to carelessly targeted missile strikes, and how many Yemeni militants with strictly local agendas will become dedicated enemies of the West in response to US military actions against them.”

Recent polls of the Pakistan people show high levels of anger in Pakistan at US military attacks there. This anger in turn leads to high support for suicide attacks against US military targets.

US Defense of Drone Assassinations

US officials claim these drone killings are not assassinations because the US has the legal right to kill anyone considered a terrorist, anywhere, if they can argue it is in self-defense. Attorney General Holder and White House counterterrorism advisor John Brennan recently defended the legality of drone strikes and argued they are not assassinations because the killings are in response to the 9/11 attacks and are carried out in self-defense even when not in Afghanistan or Iraq. This argument is based on the highly criticized claim of anticipatory self-defense which justifies killings in a global war on terror when traditional self-defense would clearly not. The government refuses to provide copies of the legal opinions relied upon by the government.

As National Public Radio and The New Republic jointly editorialized, there is good reason to doubt the veracity of US claims that drone killings are even effective. Drone use has escalated and expanded the US global war on terror and thus should be subject to higher levels of scrutiny than it is now. As the use of drones escalates so too does the risk of killing innocents which produces “legitimate anti-American anger that terrorist recruiters can exploit…. Such a steady escalation of the drone war, and the inevitable increase in civilian casualties that will accompany it, could easily tip the delicate balance that assures we kill more terrorists than we produce.”

There is incredible danger in allowing US military and civilians to murder people anywhere in the world with no public or Congressional or judicial oversight. This authorizes the President and the executive branch, according to the ACLU and the Center for Constitutional Rights, to be prosecutor, judge, jury and executioner.

The use of drones to assassinate people violates US and international law in multiple ways. US military and civilian employees, who plan, target and execute people in Pakistan, Yemen and Somalia are violating the law and, ultimately, risk prosecution. As the technology for drone attacks spreads, protests by the US that drone attacks by others are illegal will sound quite hollow. Continuation of flagrantly illegal drone attacks by the US also risks justifying the exact same actions, taken by others, against us.

edited for size, full article here:
http://www.counterpunch.org/2012/05/15/five-reasons-drone-assassinations-are-illegal/
 

grokit

well-worn member
The tragedy in Orlando wasn't Islamic terrorism, it was religious terrorism.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...-calls-for-killing-gays-to-end-aids/19929973/

"Here's what the Bible says, Leviticus 20:13, 'If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them.' And that, my friend, is the cure for AIDS. It was right there in the Bible all along."

Then there's the hypocrite Ted 'Almost Human' Cruz.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michelangelo-signorile/post_10496_b_8544540.html
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/201...ar-mateen-swore-allegiance-isis-mass-killing/

Ted Cruz’s father, Rafael Cruz, an anti-gay Tea Party crusader, was a star speaker — he reiterated his death penalty call, adding that homosexuals should first be given some time to repent before the executions begin. There’s nothing subtle about what he said, and you can watch it for yourself, including his statements about what he would do if he were one of those parents of a gay person:

Today, the fucking hypocrite says this;

http://www.businessinsider.com/ted-cruz-statement-orlando-shooting-2016-6

For all the Democrats who are loud champions of the gay and lesbian community whenever there is a culture battle waging, now is the opportunity to speak out against an ideology that calls for the murder of gays and lesbians.

ISIS and the theocracy in Iran (supported with American taxpayer dollars) regularly murder homosexuals, throwing them from buildings and burying them under rocks. This is wrong, it is evil, and we must all stand against it. Every human being has a right to live according to his or her faith and conscience, and nobody has a right to murder someone who doesn't share their faith or sexual orientation.

If you're a Democratic politician and you really want to stand for LGBT, show real courage and stand up against the vicious ideology that has targeted our fellow Americans for murder.

And, there's the westboro bastards. They celebrated the tragedy;

http://www.advocate.com/crime/2016/6/12/westboro-sings-shooters-keep-comin-around-bodies-still-club

"I ain't gonna be an optimist / You were caught up and lost in rage and more crisis / Marry fags as the blood flowing around you / And the shooters keep coming around in the cities that you love / Much blood flowing in the streets bringing God's wrath from above /And then he blinds your eyes..."

The song was linked in one of multiple tweets the anti-LGBT group wrote in response to the shootings Sunday. “God Sent the Shooter to Orlando Fag Club," Westboro tweeted.

I'm sickened by all of this.
Yes and no, as this particular mass murderer had proclaimed his allegiance to ISIS via a 911 call just before starting his rampage. And ISIS had issued a call for lone wolves in the area just a few days ago, complete with a hit list of more than 600 people in florida alone. So it's a hate crime and an act of terrorism/jihad.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2016/06/isis-announced-florida-attack-three-days-ago/
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/201...ar-mateen-swore-allegiance-isis-mass-killing/

I'm sick of this shit too, especially the way the msm handles it :disgust:
 
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lwien

Well-Known Member
To lighten things up a bit, ya may want to check out "Braindead" (or.....could be called, Body Snatchers Goes to Washington), on CBS tonight:

"Conservatives become more stridently determined to decimate the federal government. Liberals find themselves robotically quoting statistics about the wonders of Scandinavia.

Sometimes “BrainDead” hints at this bigger context. In the background of scenes, the news is reported almost entirely on two fictional cable channels, one of which blames every problem on Democrats, the other on Republicans. "
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/13/a...-become-washington-insiders-in-braindead.html

This could be one of those shows that is so bad it's good kind of thing, eh?
 
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CarolKing

Singer of songs and a vapor connoisseur
Donald Trump said he appreciated congratulations for being right about terrorism regarding the murders in Orlando. What an aas!! He almost acted glad that this happened, thinking this would boost his chances to win the presidency. This guy makes me so angry.
 
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