Testing silicone containers for safety. Repost from Reddit

hishighness

Well-Known Member
You raise a good point @Caligula in that you should never trust anyone from reddit on their word. Reading through the thread has given me doubts as well, I have an ebay container and would very much like to try and ruin some wax.

I took bout .2 of gold (orangeish) clear shatter piece and pressed it out flat as I could in the container so if it bleeds through should definitely be able to see it. Does anyone have any other ideas on how to speed up the leaching process? Think I'm just going to leave this in here for a week and then check again see if anything happened. Not very scientific but best I can do.
 

Caligula

Maximus
Well according to that poster, his container also leeched out his terps?

Terps out, blue dye in.

Then again he also said he dabbed the oil anyway, even after seeing blue dye in his shatter and "tasting something off". :shrug:
 
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2clicker

Observer
@Caligula... i too wondered about the FDA approval. and how if its approved that its likely to be too small of an amount to actually cause anyone issues.

problem i have is that they have been known to approve of things in the past that actually have issues. issues that they knew of before the approval (prescription drugs). so it makes you wonder where the FDAs loyalties are.

for piece of mind i would suggest only using the OS stuff. it could very well be a non issue though.
 

Dramma Lamma

Looks like a job for!
While i understand that this is simply an undocumented reddit post (with the OP even saying that his conclusion "isn't very scientific"), I don't see what this has to do with "platinum curing" things or FDA approved silicone in general...

Regardless, this is the only time I've even heard of something like this happening. I would be inclined to think that if it was a general issue with silicone instead of one set of cheap no-name containers, we would have heard about it from one of the tens of thousands of people who have been using thsee types of products over the past few years.

Just saying.

BTW I see he took a trip to Alaska but I see no mention of "altitude" being a cause of this, as previously suggested in this thread. Did I miss that ?

The "altitude" thing was my memory, didn't recall his post exactly. Apparently my stoned mind when I originally read it recorded Alaska = altitude. You didn't miss anything I just recalled it wrong.


I asked someone from the nogoo team to check out that thread and see if they may have any insight or might see it being worthy of discussing, but I got no reply back ..

I would like to believe they are just busy over careless, but now days cash rules everything ; they are pretty much the same people that brought out the Kannastor grinders

Similar story here with a different company.

Nosticky container (aka dab reaper) advertised and claimed to be platinum cured on Reddit recently, the "manager" even was really nice and included a free extra container with my order when I asked If a certain design was available. Once they arrived and failed the pinch test I e-mailed him back simply asking what the deal with that was.

Its been over a week with no response whatsoever, at this point I am assuming he didn't respond because they have nothing to say in their defense. Seems like they are blatantly, falsely advertising trying to take advantage of a little bubble that popped up here.
 

2clicker

Observer
Its been over a week with no response whatsoever, at this point I am assuming he didn't respond because they have nothing to say in their defense. Seems like they are blatantly, falsely advertising trying to take advantage of a little bubble that popped up here.

i would have to agree. maybe more of us should reach out to them asking them to join us here in this thread. or just for answers in general.
 

Caligula

Maximus
Has anyone actually looked into this pinch test thing? Where did this method of testing come from? Can there be false positives for various reasons? False negatives for that matter? Does it even work? I Google this and can see lots of people using the method but I don't see anything from say, a scientific journal documenting the efficacy of this technique and/or its proper method of application. For the most part it's laypeople regurgitating the same information over and over.
 

Dramma Lamma

Looks like a job for!
You raise a good point @Caligula in that you should never trust anyone from reddit on their word. Reading through the thread has given me doubts as well, I have an ebay container and would very much like to try and ruin some wax.

I took bout .2 of gold (orangeish) clear shatter piece and pressed it out flat as I could in the container so if it bleeds through should definitely be able to see it. Does anyone have any other ideas on how to speed up the leaching process? Think I'm just going to leave this in here for a week and then check again see if anything happened. Not very scientific but best I can do.
Another test I saw was someone weighed their container empty, then filled it whth Limonene which is a terpene. Not sure how long or whatever, they then poured out the Limonene and re-weighed the container. I don't recall If it got heavier or lighter but I do recall they said it's weight changed showing some interaction.



As far as the pinch test goes my understanding and knowledge from some material engineering and injection molding background leads me to go with this understanding of it. A polymer is essentially just the same structure repeated over and over, in this case it would be a Siloxane. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siloxane

At the time of manufacturing the blank or raw material the factory has the option to put in certain things to act as a filler to allow the material to go farther. Now when I was making propellers this was killer because we could ask for certain highly rigid fillers, this would allow the same propeller design to withstand much more force and could be used in a different application than the original molded design.

What this means and what we are talking about when it comes to these containers is that some manufactures will just buy the cheap material and inject it into containers. I assume that as you bend the container it somehow is showing you the impurities due to the fact that the silicone is more clear as you bend it but the impurity does not act the same.

The test originally came from a NY times article which was talking about silicone molds for food.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/10/dining/10sili.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
That was linked in the OP of this thread.

But I wanted to get more info than just my basic understanding and did some more digging.
http://hollandaptblog.com/2013/12/0...m-cured-silicone-tubing-whats-the-difference/
That article does a good job of explaining platinum VS not.



Then, since they seem to be the only company who wants to talk, I called Oil-Slick. I first spoke to a receptionist and we spoke a little and her understanding and explanation was unsatisfactory so she took my info and roughly a half hour later I was called back by a gentleman who's name I've forgotten but he gladly answered all my questions all the info from this point on was stuff he helped inform me of.

First off; The pinch test is valid for the exact reason I stated above. As silicone is bent or stretched highly it begins to become more and more opaque however the same is not true for the filler molecules so when you see any new coloration appear during the pinch test that is an impurity you are seeing.

Second; Oil-Slick only obtains the most pure blank material they can, and the then soak it in acetone (or another aggressive solvent) to remove any residual fillers and use Spectroscopy to measure the purity of the blank material before even injecting it. The two big common fillers that get used by manufacturers that we need to worry about are Formaldehyde and Disophenol both of which you can easily research their toxicity.

The reason I decided to replace my original cheap silicone container was because it was starting to form a white crusty powder on the bottom of it, and it was obviously separating from itself. Turns out there is actually a term for this and it is called "bloom" it is caused by a filler getting pulled out of the silicone matrix causing a void in which silicone oxide begins to form.

Also apparently food grade silicone is not good enough for Germany as they require LFGB quality silicone which is strict on no Formaldehyde and Disophenol fillers. http://www.theodmgroup.com/2013/08/20/testing-standards-for-silicone-products/

The gentleman at Oil-Slick also told me that if any of you would like to have this same discussion I did with him about this yourself then feel free to give them a jingle. Their phone # is clearly listed on their website.

So in closing, yes as far as I can find and inform myself the end user consumer, the pinch test is valid and I will be using it from now on.
 
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hishighness

Well-Known Member
Thank you @Dramma Lamma for the legwork! Always great to hear the science behind things. It seems like (as with most cheap things) the containers will work for a quick storage but shouldn't be used for too long. I'm going to leave my wax in there for as long as possible and will post updates should I see anything.

The most troubling thing I think is that NoGoo is claiming to be platinum cured and yet people are finding impurities. Not replying isn't conclusive proof that they're in the wrong but if my whole business depended on people having faith in my products I would've made posts on instagram, twitter, and anywhere else I could to clear my brand. Can only hope capitalism does its job and the ones who misled lose their business.

Oil Slick's probably having a field day though :rofl:
 
hishighness,
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spoutti

Well-Known Member
Tx guys for the infos! Im happy to know I chose oilslick containers. It was because they had other products I wanted, but happy none the less.
 
spoutti,
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GR

Well-Known Member
Has anyone actually looked into this pinch test thing? Where did this method of testing come from? Can there be false positives for various reasons? False negatives for that matter? Does it even work? I Google this and can see lots of people using the method but I don't see anything from say, a scientific journal documenting the efficacy of this technique and/or its proper method of application. For the most part it's laypeople regurgitating the same information over and over.
Your right, I don't like to take things just because I heard it on the Internet. Going to look into this more because this has been a conversation for the last couple of years with the oil guys o know.

I have never worried much about short term storage but long term is different. What happens if oil is not purged of butane we'll and it is stored long term? How much is to much butane? We know there has been problems with blasting tane onto silicon pads on the past but I don't know if "platinum curing" is fine for blasting on?
 
GR,

Smoke1ForMe

Well-Known Member
I store my oil for long periods of time. Is oil slick the best brand? Currently have Nogoo containers and they turn completely white when squeezed.
 
Smoke1ForMe,

mixchu69

Well-Known Member
This concerns me. I have about $200 worth of concentrates in my nogoo containers. I looked at the bottom of the shatter and it is white. The rest is crumble and butter, so can't see. Do I throw all this away? I don't want to be smoking chemicals. It's been in there for 1 week and I washed with hot water.

Please don't tell me $200 down the drain. I should have kept them in the plastic containers they come in (I thought it would be worse if it was sitting in hot car- plastics would leach) and parchment for the shatter. Should I still smoke or not?
 
mixchu69,
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