TC Box Mods Firmware Discussions and Customizing

[dodgy_b]

A couple really informative posts @KeroZen and @bizwaxzion . Thanks!

My first foray into TC last night didn't produce the results I was looking for but now realizing, after reading both your posts, is that I had the "global" max wattage for the device at 45W but the individual profile was at the default of only 20W. So I'll ramp that up and try again later tonight.

Few one stop questions while I have AF open:

- If you find that the TCR value is not correlating with the "correct" temps (or at least ones perceived temps based on technique/airflow, etc) what increments do you recommend bumping that value up or down to fine tune? 2 pts, 10 pts, higher? (Been starting with manufacturer, Modpod Stempod, recommendation of 285)

- Under Advanced then Settings. Shunt Correction? (currently at 100%) Internal Resistance? (currently at 0)

- Getting mixed input on "locking" in the resistance for TC. Any opinions? Really just using this one atty for now.

I think it's worth noting here, that IMO, the most valuable feature of arctic fox firmware is the PI regulation. The stock firmware acts like a light switch when it hits temp protection and with a high wattage number can be somewhat rude to the atomizer (30->0->30->0) while the PI regulation has much better control of the power curve (30->15->12->12.5->13->12.2) . This allows for much smaller variance holding temp. PI regulation is controlled by another set of values and is setup by pressing the setup button next to temp control in the profile editor. The % value controls when the PI regulation code kicks in - keep this at 0 unless you are messing with pre-heat curves. The P and I values are somewhat dependent on what's being temperature controlled. For the DTV3 donuts I use P=900 and I=20.

So I've enabled PI-Regulator. Range is at 0%. Default for this profile is P Value 1850, I Value 300. At this stage it's all Greek to me. Any value recommendations for use with the Stempod and/or Splinter?

 

[KeroZen]

I don't use over 30W myself, enough when using these vapes dry. For water filtration you might need more.

For the TCR value it's best to have a large range of usable temperatures that don't correspond to the real world temperature (for instance I use my iHeat between 155°C and 180°C displayed on screen but that maps to probably 170°C - 215°C in reality) than matching precisely a single point with the real world temperature at the expense of having all points above and below completely off.

For the stempod you might have more luck as it has more conventional coils. Still there's a difference between the temperature at the coil(s) and what the load will see downstream. Don't be surprised if you find that there is a large offset in practice, it doesn't matter really.

Shunt correction is to correct the mod ohmmeter if it's off. But for that you need a very good measurement source to compare. I'd leave it as is. Internal resistance on the other hand is interesting to calibrate. But you need to buy a special pure copper 510 termination plug (just a shunt to short the 510, you could do it by holding a piece of copper and touching the terminal and screws but that's harder)

Let the mod measure the resistance when it's shorted (obviously don't try to fire it) and note down the value. That's what you need to enter in the internal resistance box. This way AF will be able to subtract it from your atty resistance reading and you'll get a more accurate TC.

For PI it's hard to calibrate. I'm at 900 / 50 with the iHeat from memory. It does overshoot if I'm not drawing while hitting, but when I draw it seems stable. You can use AF device monitor to watch the temperature live in the graph (make sure to increase the Y axis resolution first though)

 

[bizwaxzion]

@dodgy_b - I don't have either of those, so I'm afraid I can't comment on proper PI values - but I run my 10mm donuts with a 220-240 TCR value, so you migh give 900/20 a shot and watch with device monitor to see what the power curve looks like. I tried at one point to narrow down the change in temp per TCR increment and I believe it was a couple degrees. I use a thermocouple to test actual donut surface temp against the mod displayed temp to get correct TCR values so mod display is within 5 degrees or so of actual temp (turns out that each quadrant of the donut can differ by 10-15 degrees so nothing is exact). I don't mess with Shunt Correction or Internal Resistance correction. You will hear both side of the 'TC needs locked resistance' discussion. I think it's largely mod dependent, but I feel that since TC measures change from room temp to hot, the proper cold resistance should be locked in.

 

[HerbieVonVapster]

I think it's largely mod dependent, but I feel that since TC measures change from room temp to hot, the proper cold resistance should be locked in.

There are a lot factors that must come together to have an accurate TC reading on a mod. A mere couple hundredths of an ohm can make a big difference with some of the wire being used.

The manufacturer of the board
Top tier, the Evolv DNA line (made in the USA), but there are other good boards like Yihi, FSK, Dicodes, etc

2nd tier boards generally wont be as accurate, and wont have as many options to tweak. Generally, if the Mod is $50 or less it is probably a 2nd tier board inside.

2nd tier boards can often be improved by running the Arctic Fox software and Firmware and Tubo Evic which adds functionality very similar to Evolv's Escribe software.

How well the mod was constructed, specifically with respect to the solder joints to the 510 connector, and the solder joints to "ground".

A cold or poor solder joint can increase resistance which will throw your measured temp off.

Is it a quality 510 connector, many spring loaded connectors dont have enough tension

Was the mod calibrated to account for internal resistance Better boards will allow you to plug in an "offset" resistance to compensate for the accumulated resistance of the the 510 and internal solder joints

The accuracy of the TCR or TFR curve being used with respect to the material used in coil.

The vast majority of TC mods (FSK being the exception) rely on "knowing" what resistance to expect at a certain temperature. This relationship is expressed as either TCR or a TFR.

TCR (Temperature Coefficient of Resistance) which is a single number that the TC Mod will use in its algorithms to calculate the temperature.

TFR (Temperature Factors of Resistance) which is a series of numbers representing a curve of numbers that the TC Mod will use in its algorithms to calculate the temperature. IMHO the TFR is the more accurate of the two methods since the relationship is usually not linear.


The bottom line is that ANYTHING that might increase the resistance in your mod/atty/coil will cause your temperature reading to be inaccurate.

Some tips

Search out your mod info. Different mods use TCR values differently it seems.

https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/t...tcr-tfr-for-all-the-different-tc-mods.742439/

Most TC mods will allow you to set a maximum wattage, set this wattage to be about 25% higher than the wattage you vape at. This is only necessary in the beginning as you learn TC. Once you have learned it, and are comfortable with your Mod being accurate, then you can adjust your wattage, as the TC (technically temperature "limiting") will automatically limit the wattage to keep you from going over-temp

Dont take a "hot" atty off of another mod and then put it on a TC mod, the results will not be good. A TC mod measures (what it assumes is) the "cold resistance" the first time you attach it to use as a baseline. If you attach a HOT atty your baseline will be off and your temperature readings will not be accurate.

More advanced reading on this subject

https://www.ecigssa.co.za/guide-to-fine-tuning-temp-control-vaping.t18206/

 

[KeroZen]

I think we may now add the OMNI chipset as found in Vaporesso mods to the list of good TC implementations. Same for SmoAnt's implementation, my Knight v2 is working really well with just a single TCR value to tweak.

For Vaporesso it would be good to have more reviews from FC members.

YiHi is very well regarded in the e-cig world (and quite pricey) but IIRC someone in the DT thread once said that there was a problem with their TC implementation for our kind of usage. From memory it was something around the mod detecting that the coil was dry and aborting as a safety.

I'd like to get a confirmation on that too. I have an acquaintance owning an e-cig e-shop, maybe I could borrow one unit from him... the only problem is that he is kind of an asshole, so I would have to listen to his crap a whole evening for that... hmmmmm.

Nice sum up @HerbieVonVapster!

 

[ray_b]

I think we may now add the OMNI chipset as found in Vaporesso mods to the list of good TC implementations. Same for SmoAnt's implementation, my Knight v2 is working really well with just a single TCR value to tweak.

For Vaporesso it would be good to have more reviews from FC members.

I have a Vaporesso Revenger and it has good TC implementation, you can also set a custom TC curve using Vaporesso supplied software, Windows only. I did a firmware update on mine, easy to do. I would definitely consider another Vaporesso, but as always read a few reviews before you buy. I had my eye on the new Vaporesso Polar but apparently it has some firmware problems so I passed.

I'm really impressed with the two Smoant mods I have, a Battlestar Mini (1-18650) and a Charon Mini (2-18650). Both have an excellent TC mode and are easy to set up and use. The Charon Mini has some on mod programming options but I haven't looked at that yet, it works well out of the box. I prefer Smoant's TC over the Revenger's.

The VooPoo Drag and VooPoo Too are both supposed to have excellent TC implementation with extensive on mod programming abilities. One e-cig reviewer compared the TC on the Drag to DNA chips.

 

[nosmoking]

I have been using a Vapedroid C3D1 mod since around Christmas. It has a DNA250 chip and is very sturdy, but I never really felt it worked that great. I didn't get into escribe much but even when I did the mod settings were hard to tune in when trying to compare to other mods. I had problems with not knowing whether I was in TC mode or not and lately I have been having atomizer reading issues. I have always felt it might just have been a really good dud, but I always found away to make it work and with 3 batteries and a solid 510 connector it was the tank that kept on going. Its still going but...

Today I ordered a VooPoo Drag and a Siegel E1 80W. The VooPoo Drag has just been sitting in the back of my mind since I bought the C3D1 as I did a lot of research on it and was gonna get it but went DNA instead. The Siegel just kind of reminds me of the Evic VTC Mini I had that didn't last due to the connector but was very easy to use altough not extremely accurate probably.

One thing to note...I use these mods for Oil/wax atomizers only.

 

[Summer]

This is a great thread to keep updated. Unfortunately a lot of informative info. is in both the Splinter & Stempod (currently the ModPod) threads. So if I see anything in either thread directly related to this thread & relevant, I'll cross-post. Please do the same if the opportunity avails itself.

This is a cross-post from the StemPod thread. Read from here down. You'll know when to stop.

http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/m...er-for-tc-box-mods.25010/page-23#post-1283745

 

[HerbieVonVapster]

This is a great thread to keep updated. Unfortunately a lot of informative info. is in both the Splinter & Stempod (currently the ModPod) threads. So if I see anything in either thread directly related to this thread & relevant, I'll cross-post. Please do the same if the opportunity avails itself.

This is a cross-post from the StemPod thread. Read from here down. You'll know when to stop.

Thanks for doing this. I try to answer simple question in the products thread. If discussion start to moving away from the vaporizer and into mods I will direct them here.

Really better this way. The Splinter, Stempod and Iheat mod info is mostly exchangeable. Material of heater are different but that comes down to changing TCR or TFR settings.

 

[cybrguy]

So, should the battery meter in these mods be accurate? I have 2 freshly fully charged 18650s (to 4.20v as reported by my D4) in my new RX 2/3 and it is reporting they have 4.22v and 4.04v. If I pull them and put them back in the charger they still show 4.2v.

 

[HerbieVonVapster]

So, should the battery meter in these mods be accurate? I have 2 freshly fully charged 18650s (to 4.20v as reported by my D4) in my new RX 2/3 and it is reporting they have 4.22v and 4.04v. If I pull them and put them back in the charger they still show 4.2v.

Looks like arctic fox lets you edit battery settings either import files or make your own. So should be able to calibrate it.

Did you start with fresh set of batteries for this mod? I think it's best to have a matched pair for the the mod.

Might want try changing by usb in the mod see if any difference. Or switch to a fresh set of new batteries if possible.

 

[cybrguy]

These happen to be pretty new Samsung 30Qs that I have only charged and used twice so far in my Zion. I have 3 pairs of cells for the Zions that are reasonably new and intend to use for now. I will order a set of 3 soon for when I want to use 3 together, most of the time I expect to use just a pair. It is heavy enough with 2.
Being entirely new to mods I don't know how important it may be for them to accurately measure charge, but I tried a few other 18650s in it and they show similar differences between what the mod reports and what my chargers report. I tried another charger just to be sure (a D2) and it showed the same numbers as my main charger within a tenth of a volt.

 

[HerbieVonVapster]

Being entirely new to mods I don't know how important it may be for them to accurately measure charge, but I tried a few other 18650s in it and they show similar differences between what the mod reports and what my chargers report. I tried another charger just to be sure (a D2) and it showed the same numbers as my main charger within a tenth of a volt.

Found this might it be helpful.
https://github.com/ClockSelect/myevic/issues/291

 

[cybrguy]

Yeah, the problem they are (mostly) talking about is uneven discharging. I was talking incorrect (apparently) battery level readings. Good information, tho, and something to watch for.

 

[KeroZen]

I recall reading fixes about that in AF changelog. Check the advanced config tab, there's a page called BVO, stands for battery voltage offset. You can correct the readings for up to 4 cells.

 

[cybrguy]

The good news is that the batteries ARE discharging evenly and the mod is just misreading the voltage. I don't know if I will try to calibrate it or not, but the results are good to know.

 

[cybrguy]

My Wismec RX 2/3 seems to have died. No response from it at all. Won't turn on...

Nevermind. False alarm. Came back to life. Whew...

 

[nosmoking]

I have been using a Vapedroid C3D1 mod since around Christmas. It has a DNA250 chip and is very sturdy, but I never really felt it worked that great. I didn't get into escribe much but even when I did the mod settings were hard to tune in when trying to compare to other mods. I had problems with not knowing whether I was in TC mode or not and lately I have been having atomizer reading issues. I have always felt it might just have been a really good dud, but I always found away to make it work and with 3 batteries and a solid 510 connector it was the tank that kept on going. Its still going but...

Today I ordered a VooPoo Drag and a Siegel E1 80W. The VooPoo Drag has just been sitting in the back of my mind since I bought the C3D1 as I did a lot of research on it and was gonna get it but went DNA instead. The Siegel just kind of reminds me of the Evic VTC Mini I had that didn't last due to the connector but was very easy to use altough not extremely accurate probably.

One thing to note...I use these mods for Oil/wax atomizers only.

Rockin this VooPoo Drag but damn the 10sec timeout. I gotta find a way around this.

 

[superdang9000]

Rockin this VooPoo Drag but damn the 10sec timeout. I gotta find a way around this.

I came across this post a while back when trying to do the same with my A1.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Waxpen/com...for_25_second_hits/?utm_source=reddit-android

Disclaimer: I have not tried this yet but am planning to sometime this weekend.

Update: I haven't been able to get this to work, the Voopoo app crashes everytime when stopping the process that limits the value from 3-10. I'm guessing it may have been patched in the latest update but will keep trying.

 

[KeroZen]

Rockin this VooPoo Drag but damn the 10sec timeout. I gotta find a way around this.

Release and retrigger? Not really a problem no?

 

[nosmoking]

Release and retrigger? Not really a problem no?

It works but as you know TC does not work off of sensors. It works off algorithims. If your really on your TC game it is harder to get accurate temps when your starting the algorithim at a much higher temp for starting point which could make you end up at a much hotter temp than you set your TC for. I dont believe the mod boxes are smart enough to know your TC readout from the previous heat so now your throwing more heat at it then intended and with less control. Maybe I am making a mountain out of a mole hill...not really sure.

I do know your method works but is very annoying to me. Right as I start getting vapor and enjoying my hit I have to remember to push the button again. I just came from a vaporizer that had 25 second cutoff so its just an unfortunate adjustment.

 

[cybrguy]

I wonder if the @funkyjunky firmware should have it's own thread. I don't want to create one because the author is one of us (Hi FJ) and the software is his to manage how he chooses, but the software is so popular that figuring it out might be easier if there was one thread we could go to.

There is lots of stuff in the Tubo Evic thread of course, but much of it is not universally applicable...

Or not, it's just a thought...

 

[KeroZen]

Nope, this is one of the firmware we can chose from and it's a thread dedicated to firmware, so no need to dilute the discussion even further. This thread is fine.

 

[HerbieVonVapster]

Speaking of firmware I noticed post in sprinter thread a comment about FJ adding support for a newer model. I think anything that is supported by arctic fox would be able to be added also in FJ software.

Really not fair to ask him to add all these newer device. From my understanding he is ok with other using it.

Anyone have any ideal on what would be needed to add new mods into that software?

Also little lost on the whole pi setting in arctic fox. I see the one you have for iheat Kerozen. Do you think thou value would work on stempod?

 

[KeroZen]

Could be a start but really tuning PI(D) coefficients is almost an art... There are some methods / recipes though. But it ain't easy in all cases!