Sapphire and Ruby inserts for bangers

[Shooby]

I assuming that you have to request a 35mm from DC as they said the largest they make is 30mm.

I dont like the galaxys coil handle and the price tag of $90. AH should be only $70.

 

[alittledabwilldoya']

Turbine insert: https://www.instagram.com/p/BivYIMRHj5T/?taken-by=daves_not_h3r3_man

 

[MileHighHuman]

Is there any benefits in using the sapphire insert inside quartz banger compared to sapphire only like the DNAIL dishes?

 

[Shooby]

Is there any benefits in using the sapphire insert inside quartz banger compared to sapphire only like the DNAIL dishes?

There is no Ti in the air path at all. With CCA, you have the Ti bucket, intake and joint and possibly cap. with Dnail Slim Base, you have the v2 carb cap, the entire slim base heat sink tube and joint that is Ti.

 

[MileHighHuman]

There is no Ti in the air path at all. With CCA, you have the Ti bucket, intake and joint and possibly cap. with Dnail Slim Base, you have the v2 carb cap, the entire slim base heat sink tube and joint that is Ti.

That makes sense, but so you really feel the flavor difference will be worth that price?

Especially with you already owning the DNAIL / CCA sapphires.

Also, do you ever think the sapphire inserts will ever be available for sale fully polished?

I've seen one on Instagram, but the currents for sale / pre-order are only "semi polished"

I read on the website that "Polished vs unpolished sapphire: Polishing does not benefit or inhibit the structural integrity of the sapphire but has the benefit of optical clarity, easier cleaning maintenance, and it is aesthetically satisfying"

But im curious to if there is any flavor difference since nothing about that was mentioned.

 

[ensabbahnur]

That makes sense, but so you really feel the flavor difference will be worth that price?

Especially with you already owning the DNAIL / CCA sapphires.

Also, do you ever think the sapphire inserts will ever be available for sale fully polished?

I've seen one on Instagram, but the currents for sale / pre-order are only "semi polished"

I read on the website that "Polished vs unpolished sapphire: Polishing does not benefit or inhibit the structural integrity of the sapphire but has the benefit of optical clarity, easier cleaning maintenance, and it is aesthetically satisfying"

But im curious to if there is any flavor difference since nothing about that was mentioned.

The current CCA sapphires are highly polished and super smooth all over.

Im still of the strong opinion (money laying down level) in a blind test you couldn't tell ~2 inches of ti in the air path vs none at the temps we play with. That being said I think the CCA saphs taste/work better then the saph Halo, and will survive much longer under normal use then the Halo will.

Its also interesting to note the conflicting opinions from the companies, some saying opaque, some saying porous (wik), some saying smooth polished vitreous is the way to go.....(i know you're specifically referencing sapphire but this is more commentary on the texture benefits as this holds true for quartz and SIC also)

Whats worth it to you is super relative, you've already dropped a ton of cash (regardless of you reselling) on numerous devices hopping all over trying to find "the one", personally I don't think anything in this thread has brought anything enough to the table to justify the price.......especially when a 25mm $10 chinese quartz setup is the "new end game" making its rounds this season. (rolls eyes)

Edit: Not hating on quartz so there was/is no need to be triggered and overly defend your dab decisions , the point i was making throughout is some people find "ends" with <$50, some find it with much much more and I was laughing at how silly people are....as people.

 

[invertedisdead]

I know of at least 5 members of this forum that have sapphire and are still digging their Quartz setups. Whether it's your end game or not, it's certainly a good value.

And the carb cap works well.

That makes me interested in the Nautilaus as CCA discontinued all but the 30mm insert.

Most of us in the Flowerpot thread notice smoothness and flavor benefits simply switching the bowl from Ti to glass.

 

[Justpassedu]

I assuming that you have to request a 35mm from DC as they said the largest they make is 30mm.

I dont like the galaxys coil handle and the price tag of $90. AH should be only $70.

I got the galaxy 35mm coil and banger . I gotta say the coil is really nice and the handle is my favorite part of it for the fact that the handle was somewhat designed to slide up against those little posts blown onto some bangers and hold the coil snuggly rather than the other methods I have seen used. The banger is decent , I cannot measure its thickness but it is not that thick, maybe 2-3mm leaning towards the 2mm. It has been working great for me though , providing awesome hits and I even grabbed a few drop in buckets off dhgate to try and found a 28mm one that fits almost perfect. But besides that , mainly wanted to let you know the coil is nice , good quality and that handle suits a purpose. You can see in this pic how I slid it up against that blown little quartz handle on the banger and it has been staying put for me. It is a soft rubber.

Another angle :

 

[Danksta]

I know of at least 5 members of this forum that have sapphire and are still digging their Quartz setups. Whether it's your end game or not, it's certainly a good value.

I prefer my quartz banger/insert system myself. I still use the sapphire here and there but honestly a super low temp hit (1m30s cooldown) is on the same level as sapphire. Perhaps better tbh. I still kinda think torch dabs are better and enails just can't truly compete.

Most of us in the Flowerpot thread notice smoothness and flavor benefits simply switching the bowl from Ti to glass.

Exactly. An all glass path WILL make a difference.

 

[Shooby]

That makes sense, but so you really feel the flavor difference will be worth that price?

Especially with you already owning the DNAIL / CCA sapphires.

Also, do you ever think the sapphire inserts will ever be available for sale fully polished?

I've seen one on Instagram, but the currents for sale / pre-order are only "semi polished"

I read on the website that "Polished vs unpolished sapphire: Polishing does not benefit or inhibit the structural integrity of the sapphire but has the benefit of optical clarity, easier cleaning maintenance, and it is aesthetically satisfying"

But im curious to if there is any flavor difference since nothing about that was mentioned.

There are a few members here on FC that have both CCA 20mm Sapphires in polished (clear) and semi-polished (white-ish) I have never had the privilege to try to semi-polished sapphire inserts I cant imagine any difference in taste but polished is much easier to keep clean. I believe each batch Nautilus gets, it may be polished or semi polished. They do not know until they receive their order.

In terms of worth it, well to me, yes. My goal has been to create the smoothest vape to prevent coughing and i noticed with Ti, i cough a lot more and cough for a longer period of time. Im not saying i dont cough with quartz, i definitely do. but its a slower, creeping cough that comes after im done qtipping and cleaning the carb cap with quartz over Ti. With Ti, i almost cough during the rip or immediately after that i cough. My neighbors think im constantly sick cuz im coughing every day and removing Ti has helped a bit for me in the short time ive had with this set up.

I do not see myself going back to the Ti Liger as its a night and day taste different between the 20mm Liger and the 25mm Halen bucket using the 20mm CCA sapphire in both. I had my buddy try the Liger about 5 mins after taking a rip from the all quartz set up and he was shocked how it tasted so different using the same sauce and insert. But everyone has different taste and likes and so far, i can say i do not like the taste of metal in my dabs.

There is also a huge taste difference between quartz and sapphire as i can tell immediately once my dab splashed out of the sapphire insert and onto the quartz bucket.

I know of at least 5 members of this forum that have sapphire and are still digging their Quartz setups. Whether it's your end game or not, it's certainly a good value.

And the carb cap works well.

That makes me interested in the Nautilaus as CCA discontinued all but the 30mm insert.

Most of us in the Flowerpot thread notice smoothness and flavor benefits simply switching the bowl from Ti to glass.

Im almost set on the 24mm sapphire insert. Im just debating if i want to do the pre-order BS or wait. It looks like the 24mm has a thicker wall than the 18mm.

And yes, most in the FP thread that has used glass bowls prefer it to Ti. I am one of those who hasnt used my Panhead in months as i have now 6-7 glass bowls to use with my Flowerpots. They get dirty and clogged fast.

I got the galaxy 35mm coil and banger . I gotta say the coil is really nice and the handle is my favorite part of it for the fact that the handle was somewhat designed to slide up against those little posts blown onto some bangers and hold the coil snuggly rather than the other methods I have seen used. The banger is decent , I cannot measure its thickness but it is not that thick, maybe 2-3mm leaning towards the 2mm. It has been working great for me though , providing awesome hits and I even grabbed a few drop in buckets off dhgate to try and found a 28mm one that fits almost perfect. But besides that , mainly wanted to let you know the coil is nice , good quality and that handle suits a purpose. You can see in this pic how I slid it up against that blown little quartz handle on the banger and it has been staying put for me. It is a soft rubber.

Another angle :

Thanks for the heads up. I havent heard shit on Galaxy Enail products until now. I will def. consider it now. Is the cable long on the coil? The DC coils i got had short ass cables. 1 meter long compared to Augusthaus coils that had like 2-3 meters of cable on their coils. I dont even know which one i prefer yet, long or short.

 

[invertedisdead]

Thanks for the heads up. I havent heard shit on Galaxy Enail products until now. I will def. consider it now. Is the cable long on the coil? The DC coils i got had short ass cables. 1 meter long compared to Augusthaus coils that had like 2-3 meters of cable on their coils. I dont even know which one i prefer yet, long or short.

I thought the same thing, the DC coil is short and at first I didn't like that, but now I kinda do like it for small rigs and not having a bunch of excess coil pulling on the piece or bundled up on the desk.

 

[Shooby]

I thought the same thing, the DC coil is short and at first I didn't like that, but now I kinda do like it for small rigs and not having a bunch of excess coil pulling on the piece or bundled up on the desk.

At first, i liked the longer cable but like you said, there is a bunch of cable laying around looking like shit. Then i switched to the DC and it was like perfect length. but with barely no give. The DC did look cleaner!

A retractable coil system would be great for the longer coils. Would also help organize the mess of coils i got going on under my coffee table where 4 coils are typically HOT.

 

[Justpassedu]

There are a few members here on FC that have both CCA 20mm Sapphires in polished (clear) and semi-polished (white-ish) I have never had the privilege to try to semi-polished sapphire inserts I cant imagine any difference in taste but polished is much easier to keep clean. I believe each batch Nautilus gets, it may be polished or semi polished. They do not know until they receive their order.

In terms of worth it, well to me, yes. My goal has been to create the smoothest vape to prevent coughing and i noticed with Ti, i cough a lot more and cough for a longer period of time. Im not saying i dont cough with quartz, i definitely do. but its a slower, creeping cough that comes after im done qtipping and cleaning the carb cap with quartz over Ti. With Ti, i almost cough during the rip or immediately after that i cough. My neighbors think im constantly sick cuz im coughing every day and removing Ti has helped a bit for me in the short time ive had with this set up.

I do not see myself going back to the Ti Liger as its a night and day taste different between the 20mm Liger and the 25mm Halen bucket using the 20mm CCA sapphire in both. I had my buddy try the Liger about 5 mins after taking a rip from the all quartz set up and he was shocked how it tasted so different using the same sauce and insert. But everyone has different taste and likes and so far, i can say i do not like the taste of metal in my dabs.

There is also a huge taste difference between quartz and sapphire as i can tell immediately once my dab splashed out of the sapphire insert and onto the quartz bucket.



Im almost set on the 24mm sapphire insert. Im just debating if i want to do the pre-order BS or wait. It looks like the 24mm has a thicker wall than the 18mm.

And yes, most in the FP thread that has used glass bowls prefer it to Ti. I am one of those who hasnt used my Panhead in months as i have now 6-7 glass bowls to use with my Flowerpots. They get dirty and clogged fast.


Thanks for the heads up. I havent heard shit on Galaxy Enail products until now. I will def. consider it now. Is the cable long on the coil? The DC coils i got had short ass cables. 1 meter long compared to Augusthaus coils that had like 2-3 meters of cable on their coils. I dont even know which one i prefer yet, long or short.

yw man , shoot I have not measured it but it seems pretty long like most of my others. It is definitely not on the short side though as I have no issues leaving it on my desk and passing it from one end to the other when sharing with friends. I usually tuck any extra length from the coil wire in between my desk and book shelf to hide it.

 

[alittledabwilldoya']

I do not see myself going back to the Ti Liger as its a night and day taste different between the 20mm Liger and the 25mm Halen bucket using the 20mm CCA sapphire in both. I had my buddy try the Liger about 5 mins after taking a rip from the all quartz set up and he was shocked how it tasted so different using the same sauce and insert.

Is that Halen + insert set-up torch only, or did you find a coil to fit?

 

[Shooby]

Is that Halen + insert set-up torch only, or did you find a coil to fit?

I plan on having a total of three (3) different size quartz banger + insert set up that is heated with a coil.

25mm Barrel coil from DC + 25mm Halen Bucket (HE Gavel in the future) + CCA 20mm Sapphire insert (eventually a Nautilus 18mm sapphire. The Ruby has the extra thick walls but cant justify $150 more for that yet)
30mm Hybrid coil from Augusthaus + 30mm Augusthaus quartz (eventually want the 30mm Eternal Fat bottom or Toro Grail - not in stock anywhere) with 24mm Nautilus sapphire insert.
Waiting to buy - 35mm Hybrid coil from Augusthaus with 35mm Halen Bucket (not yet available) with 30mm CCA Sapphire insert. I am trying to get the coil now and wait on the quartz.

I just got my Augusthaus Classic and is now set up with the 25mm Halen + sapphire on DC 25mm barrel coil as my daily. Im set at 650F now and i feel like the sapphire insert temp is still low, like 400F low. I havent had time to use the ktype as i pulled it out last night but got home way too late to mess with this. Ive been using a IR gun and reading the HB that is frosted on the bucket as it gives a good reading on the frosted letters. I drop my dab at 500F. I just havent had time to replicate that on the enail. And plus, i have to pick up like 6 grams of sauce tomorrow to experiment all weekend.

I do feel the 25mm barrel coil from DC isnt generating enough heat. I havent even used the 30mm hybrid coil and quartz from Augusthaus yet.

 

[invertedisdead]

I just got my Augusthaus Classic and is now set up with the 25mm Halen + sapphire on DC 25mm barrel coil as my daily. Im set at 650F now and i feel like the sapphire insert temp is still low, like 400F low. I havent had time to use the ktype as i pulled it out last night but got home way too late to mess with this. Ive been using a IR gun and reading the HB that is frosted on the bucket as it gives a good reading on the frosted letters. I drop my dab at 500F. I just havent had time to replicate that on the enail. And plus, i have to pick up like 6 grams of sauce tomorrow to experiment all weekend.

I do feel the 25mm barrel coil from DC isnt generating enough heat. I havent even used the 30mm hybrid coil and quartz from Augusthaus yet.

How thick is the floor on the Halen? The Gavel floor is twice as thick as the sidewalls. I dab between 555-625 on my PID. I start at 450 with uptemps.

 

[Shooby]

How thick is the floor on the Halen? The Gavel floor is twice as thick as the sidewalls. I dab between 555-625 on my PID. I start at 450 with uptemps.

The 25mm Halen is not thick at all. its about 2.5mm i believe. The reason i went with this now is cuz i was able to find one for $100 shipped and it works great with coils and inserts. Unlike the Evan Shore bangers having billow bottoms that wont allow a coil or the crystal star banger with the curve floor to prevent a insert for sitting flat. I want the gavel mainly because the DC barrel coil isnt able to heat the insert that well. The 4mm floor and opaque floor should hold heat better to heat the insert or at least i hope it can. Or i can find a hybrid 25mm coil.

On the classic Kubeone, i have it set to about 650F using the 25mm DC coil and Halen + insert. But i really have no clue what the insert temp is inside.

 

[invertedisdead]

Highly Educated found that the opaque floor doesn't hold heat longer, instead it vaporizes more efficiently with the nucleation sites created by the air bubbles trapped in the opaque quartz.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BaCUPZOg2DU/?hl=en&taken-by=taskrok

I find the floor thickness makes a lot of difference, I haven't had near as good luck running quartz bangers with a thinner floor than this. Although the sapphire insert should simulate a thicker floor itself.

 

[Shooby]

Highly Educated found that the opaque floor doesn't hold heat longer, instead it vaporizes more efficiently with the nucleation sites created by the air bubbles trapped in the opaque quartz.

https://www.instagram.com/p/BaCUPZOg2DU/?hl=en&taken-by=taskrok

I find the floor thickness makes a lot of difference, I haven't had near as good luck running quartz bangers with a thinner floor than this. Although the sapphire insert should simulate a thicker floor itself.

I want one of those opaque inserts tho. But yea, your right. It holds heat for less time than regular bottom. lol. But it heats up faster.

https://highlyeducatedti.com/blogs/information/study-quartz-insert-performance-opaque-vs-clear

Floor thickness i would def. think matters when using a torch. Does the wall or floor thickness matter for coils since the coils are providing constant heat?


Nice link BTW.

 

[invertedisdead]

Does the wall or floor thickness matter for coils since the coils are providing constant heat?

IMO yes it matters with the DC or Hex Nail coil, probably less so with the August Haus or E. Ross coils that cover the bottom. I also feel that since the sidewalls get direct heat, they should be thinner than the floor or the sidewalls will easily chazz. I noticed that with some 20mm bangers.

 

[Shooby]

My side walls are Chazzing now cuz of some splashing out of the insert and its set to 630F so i can get a insert temp to 440-465F.

The hybrid coil from AH, 30mm hybrid coil (hybrid = barrel + flat coil) gives more heat as i can lower my temp. I took a dab using the 30mm AH quartz and hybrid cable and was at 590F set on the app and the quartz temp was about 470F using ktype and no insert. I havent taken a dab directly on the Halen yet. But the hybrid coils are the way to go for quartz bangers and inserts over regular barrel coils in terms of heat. All my buckets do not have a thick bottom.

I am starting to think a 2mm tolerance for the insert in the bucket is about the max you can go. 1mm is ideal but i think you can get away with 2mm. Anything over, will cause the walls to heat unevenly by about 15F to 25F. Basically one side of the insert is about 20F less than the other side.

Here is Augusthaus's new 30mm Quartz and coil. I just got this with my Classic. I like this idea.

 

[invertedisdead]

My side walls are Chazzing now cuz of some splashing out of the insert and its set to 630F so i can get a insert temp to 440-465F.

The hybrid coil from AH, 30mm hybrid coil (hybrid = barrel + flat coil) gives more heat as i can lower my temp. I took a dab using the 30mm AH quartz and hybrid cable and was at 590F set on the app and the quartz temp was about 470F using ktype and no insert. I havent taken a dab directly on the Halen yet. But the hybrid coils are the way to go for quartz bangers and inserts over regular barrel coils in terms of heat. All my buckets do not have a thick bottom.

I am starting to think a 2mm tolerance for the insert in the bucket is about the max you can go. 1mm is ideal but i think you can get away with 2mm. Anything over, will cause the walls to heat unevenly by about 15F to 25F. Basically one side of the insert is about 20F less than the other side.

Here is Augusthaus's new 30mm Quartz and coil. I just got this with my Classic. I like this idea.

That looks exactly like the Eric Ross banger I posted recently in the Hex thread. Is Eric making those bangers for August Haus?

 

[alittledabwilldoya']

That looks exactly like the Eric Ross banger I posted recently in the Hex thread. Is Eric making those bangers for August Haus?

That's what I thought as well.
The images currently on the AugustHaus site are of bangers w/o the clip attachment post.

 

[Shooby]

I don't know who makes them for augusthaus. But for the 30mm, I know he switched to this as he mentioned this on a IG live a few days ago. And obviously I got this in my packages from them. The walls are really thin tho.

 

[Anon3200]

I have the flowerpot, and both 20mm and 30mm Ligers. I don't feel that the titanium parts of the liger negatively affect it in any way.

The issue with the flowerpot is the way the screen is held. The bottom has a more narrow diameter than the top and the screen sits on the bottom so there is an area around the sides that does not receive the hot air (thermal dry spot). Furthermore, the titanium bowl on the flowerpot remains cold so resin collects on the sides. The shape of the glass flowerpot appears better and cold glass will have less condensation then cold titanium.

The titanium on the Liger remains hot so there are less condensation issues. Resin from vaporized flower tastes horrible while "reclaim" from a good dab rig is just "not that great".

Quartz bangers are better than titanium alone as quartz holds a ton more energy per degree/gram vs titanium which has a very low specific heat (but ok heat transfer rates). Quartz holds a lot more heat than titanium due to having a higher specific heat, however, it has the lowest heat transfer rates of all the inserts.

Sapphire has a higher heat transfer rate than titanium and holds twice as much heat per gram/degree as quartz due to having the industry's highest specific heat. Sapphire is also denser and has like 20x+ the heat transfer rate of quartz. This makes Sapphire an ideal concentrated thermal mass for rapid low-temperature static vaporization.

I see no reason why quartz would be better than titanium for housing the sapphire insert. The titanium wall that separates the CCA insert from the coil has a much greater heat transfer rate than a quartz banger. It is stronger, much thinner, and takes much less energy to heat up. This allows for quicker, more even, and more accurate coil heating and temperature readings. Furthermore, the coil heat shield on the CCA liger improves thermal efficiency while reducing infrared exposure.

I have both the 20 and 30mm versions of the liger. The 20mm version is good for small dabs but a large dab will exhaust the supply of that is held in the insert. A quartz banger would have a larger supply of heat available (a second thermal mass) to reheat the sapphire while titanium holds little heat and the coil might lag compared to hot quartz. Turning the temperature up right before the dab or using glob mod will help with coil lag. So does a better coil/controller. My best recommendation is to stick with the amount that the insert can vaporize without reheat. Small dabs with the 20mm. The 30mm insert has many times the weight of the 20mm insert and is way better than 20mm version for big dabs. The 30mm insert is almost half an oz and holds about as much heat as a once of quartz. 20x the heat transfer means that all of that thermal mass is quickly available to the surface.